Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 08-07-04, 06:11 PM	Well, I have prob for deciding to create cool and uselfull bardic warrior wich is inspiring leader (wich would function basically as face, battle buff support and as deadly one-one combatant) for LG campaing. My bard is now 2lvl and I give short descriptions how he has fared in following adventures (notice; these all have happened in Naerie home region). Do not worry, I do not tell anything about the game (so no spoilers!). Lerara - Haves bravery to go investigate and find important clue (wich actually pulls the plot forward). - Managed to forgot buy torches and was beated by single punch by angry monk (PC). - Managed to speak a evil priest into speechles (good diplomacy roll). - In next battle disarmed his foe whit a whip. Face Value - Was firstly wounded in first encounter so much that he was in 0 and crawled for cover and whole battle begged for healing and yelled orders for two riding dogs what he had bougth (those doggies were worth of every coin). - Killed easy foe whit crossbow shot and managed to improve comrades hitting whit song. Daugther of Idee - Managed to reconize some noble. - Managed to make such good gather information roll that it would had made possible to have side task, but that peculiar side task had already out of date, so it was little waste :(. - When searching trough some financial papers, discovered that someone had cheated money from own organization. - In encounter doggie made critical hit and done full damage. Messy....... - In next encounter almost all figthing party members knocked out (had managed once succesfully cast daze and it had worked), run into alley, got himself between two baddies. Other baddie killed both dogs whit critical hits (there went 300gp+40gp of leather beardings). Bard managed to daze same baddie whit daze like earlier, but it eventually attacked and striked bard -4 trough his full defense stance (and was treated as hostage rest of the sceen and succesfully just in last moment succeed in stabilization check and was later on robbed). Circle of Sin - Managed get info in underworld (not uselfull, but cleared some earlier knowed facts). - Failed bluff check versus ogre, failed charm person it, get punched into senseles and throwed into otherside of street and luckily gets no charge for using such spell (happened in city). - In next encounter helps alot his fellows by singing (boosting their skills to hit and damage). Once again bard manages to order doggies to kill foes. - In following encounter after the earlier encounter, manages to order doggies kill one foe, lose a doggie, boost his fellows by singing, daze very dangerous looking foe whit daze (GM actually was frustrated that the guy did not maked into melee before it was killed while he has been dazed). Then makes critical crossbow shot wich causes nice amount of damage. Just second last turn before victory, runs away whit heavily damaged after his remaining dog wich also has been injured. So, you cna quess my dice luck and generall use of my bard. I shall keep doggies for awhile more (at least to 6 level, or more if they survive). But I tend in osme point in future to get involved more involved into close combat, so suggestions how my bard should be advanced are taken. Here is the generall info off him; Half-Elf, Male, CG, Bard 2lvl. Str: 10 Dex: 14 Con: 10 Int: 14 Wis: 10 Cha: 16 Feats: Weapon Finesse (of course ;)). Highest (over 5 ranks) skills: Bluff+8, Decipher script+7, Diplomacy+10, Perform (string instruments)+10, Perform (Dance)+6, Use Magic devices+4 (+6 whit scrolls). Languages: Common, Elven, Orc, Abysall, Oeridian (old). Gear: [M] studded leather, [M] violin, lt.crossbow, courtier's outfit, spell component pouch, whip, rapier, 2x riding dogs w/leather beardings, 583 gp. Spells: 0: Daze, Mage hand, Message, Prestigitation, Read Magic 1: Animate Rope (quess what I do plan whit my whip), Charm Person. I have some preferance what image I want to create whit my char and there is some background things wich matter. They are; - I want to use two short swords (duel wield them) or any other blade wich can be used whit weapon finesse (no rapiers thank you). - No pure spellcaster classes or prestige classes (in his background he is evil mage's heir and he got disgusted by his father/mother's pratice and so he shuns magic lores. So no spellcraft skills nor arcane knowlegde nor purely spellcaster classes). - Will take leadership feat in some point (suggestions for cohort are taken also). - Want a bardic warrior (so some martial skill from multiclassing or taking martial prestige class). I also point out few things; I do not have Greyhawk rule book and I had not looked into it at all well (so does not have ANY clue for allowed soures to take feats, prestige classes etc). Also I am not familair whit the world and speed how my char develops shall be slow (too few games around in Finland). Because these reasons I ask advice in my char development. You can give any advices and you do not need to answer all my questions and you do not need to be veteran player; I ask just other people's opinion how I should advance my bard. *waits for replies.............*
Sargh 08-07-04, 10:37 PM	Not taking any prestige classes pretty much limits yourself. There are a few caster ones that are bardlike enough that you might want toreconsider, like virtuoso. I'm not familiar with your region so I don't know of the particular organizations there, but I'd bet they have a bard guild. That may help you get items/feats/spells/etc that suit your character. My first suggestion is find a good local gaming group/shop where you can play regularly and interact with other players from that region. Many should have helpful advice. That sounds like it might be difficult from what you say though. A lot of the regions have yahoo groups set up that you can meet others and get local games going look into that. EVen if you can't play in person, there's a wealth of information in the groups I've seen for other regions. I would suggest though, that as a bard, you will find as you slowly go up, melee is going to be harder. The fighters/barbarians/etc will really begin to pull away in melee power and you can't keep up. That's ok, bards are supposed to be ok at lots of things, not great at anything specific. Just try to be decent at most things, keep a wide variety of skills and spells, and try to fill in the holes. This is even more important than a normal home game as often in LG you get oddly mixed tables. You could very easily have to fill in as a healer, caster, etc in games. The dogs are very helpful. I've seen many of them in my time so far playing LG. Keep in mind your cohort only gets to fill in if theres not a full group of players. So if you get in an established group and there's always 6 people, or play at cons/events, the cohort won't be played much. You might want to take a look at the War Chanter prestige class from Complete Warrior, that sounds like the closest prc to your character concept. -Sargh
Sieylianna 08-08-04, 12:56 AM	Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon Feats: Weapon Finesse (of course ;)). Weapon Finesse has a prerequisite of a +1 BAB. As a Bard, you don't you don't have that until 2nd level. Since you're only 2nd level, you only have your starting feat, which means you weren't qualified to take that feat. Ed
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 08-08-04, 07:04 AM	Oh! I did not remember that (and it seemed not even GM's remembered that :P). But in any case, it had not winned games nor my bard has not gone into melee (he has not made even single swing whit his rapier, he had used his whip tough). But in any case I will probaly change it for Improved Iniative (is ti good to act first in melee, especially when everyone gets almost immeadly the benefit of my sing ;)). So, is every source accetable for LG then? So that you can take feats, PrC, starting classes etc from other source books? Then this changes alot my char develop plans :D. I have severall concepts in mind, so say wich is most effective in your opinion; -Bard (at least 3lvl)/Figther 4lvl/War Chanter (trying to 8lvl). -Bard (at least 3-4lvl)/Figther 4lvl/Dervish (6lvl)/Shadowdancer (2lvl at least) -Bard 3lvl/Swashbuckler 3lvl/Figther 4lvl/Duelist 6lvl Well, I had this char development running my tougths whole last nigth and tougthed hard is it good structure or not. This does not use any prestige classes (because I did not know what sources were available). But I ask how uselfull this char consruction is and how it works at best; Bard 8lvl/Figther 2lvl/Ranger 2lvl/Paladin 6lvl
RobWreck 08-08-04, 12:53 PM	Hmm... although I don't think that your physical attributes are really intended for a front-line fighter-type, if you want to go mix it up in melee, I'd recommend taking a few levels of Ranger, especially if you want to go with the two-weapon fighting. Two levels of Ranger will increases your BAB by 2, your Fort Save by 3, your Reflex save by 3, and give you the two-weapon fighting feat at second level. Plus, Rangers get a decent amount of skill points in several good class skills, so some of your more important LG skills (like Spot & Listen) won't fall behind. After the two levels, I would recommend alternating Bard & Ranger levels... while it will slow down you progression in the Bardic Knowledge, Badic Music and spellcasting, it will help provide you with more of the melee ability you indicated you were interested in. Personally, I wouldn't go too much into melee with the attributes you've selected... low Strength means less damage per attack, low Constitution means less hit points absorp the bad guy attacks. While a 10 may be sufficient for the average person that isn't a melee fighter, those that want to mix it up on the front line usually need higher stats in those two areas. I'd suggest just sticking with your bow... Dex is one of your stronger points and lowers the chance of one of the bad guys being up in your face ripping into you. Just my $0.02... RobWreck
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 08-08-04, 09:18 PM	That's why I plan to take weapon specialization to my short swords+ humans as favoured enemy (works effectively increase damage to +4, not to mention my inspire courage ability bonus ;)). Also if I take swasbuckler levels to 3lvl, I can add my inteligence bonus to all weapon finesse attacks! I did nto intend as front line fighter (more as flanker attacker and support figther).
trollbill 08-09-04, 11:14 AM	Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon Bard 8lvl/Figther 2lvl/Ranger 2lvl/Paladin 6lvl FYI, Bards are required to be "any non-lawful" and Paladins are required to be "Lawful Good." So unless you plan on taking all 8 levels of Bard, and then changing alignment to Lawful Good prior to taking any levels in Paladin, then this combo will not work. I don't recall how, exactly, alignment changes work in LG but I suspect doing this would likely require a Special Mission.
Sargh 08-09-04, 11:55 AM	I also believe the swashbuckler class (any expanded base classes for that matter) are not allowed. I also believe the max lvl limit is lower that what you have there. You might want to take another look at the LG main doc and review some of the rules again when you get a chance. -Sargh
Timlagor 08-09-04, 04:19 PM	Swashbucklers are definitely not allowed at this time.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 08-10-04, 04:56 AM	Originally posted by Sargh I also believe the swashbuckler class (any expanded base classes for that matter) are not allowed. I also believe the max lvl limit is lower that what you have there. You might want to take another look at the LG main doc and review some of the rules again when you get a chance. -Sargh Where I could find the LG main doc? I would love to read it, it would help me in my decision how bard will advance. I am not sure, but it was originally a 18lvl and now it is discussed that it would be 16. Reason why I thinked bard/paldin combo is because local GM had said that you can freely change your alingment (but if you change it into evil, then char surely "retires"). Probaly it will ask a special mission to become a paladin, but it will be very distant plan. But I asked how well such combo would function? At moment I have good bluff skill, so does paladin EVER use bluff under any circumstances? Or use charm person (wich is widely illegal spell in cities).
Simpi 08-10-04, 06:13 AM	All necessary information can be downloaded from your home regions homepage: http://www.haarlaa.fi/naerie/ S.H, Naerie webslave and the guy who ran games at Ropecon...
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 08-12-04, 04:14 PM	Ahaa, that provided some info. But jsut a generall question; can you belong a two good aligned organizations? I mean can char belong to both Knigths of the Chase and Jade Masks? But anyways, at moment I think the bard/fighter/warchanter combo is the best at moment (serves betterly the traditionall role).
Simpi 08-13-04, 02:46 AM	Originally posted by Kazzaroth Pan'theon Ahaa, that provided some info. But jsut a generall question; can you belong a two good aligned organizations? I mean can char belong to both Knigths of the Chase and Jade Masks? ). You can belong to any number of meta-organisations as long as you meet all the requirements. Do note that they will start eating those Time Units quite fast, escecially if you acquire higher ranks.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 08-13-04, 04:20 AM	Yeah, I noticed the cost and it can be quite expensive. BUt I do not expect to qualify any meta-organizations till I make missions to gain favours to them and when I am probaly in 6lvl :rolleyes: . So then I am already participating some higher level games and then gain more money and xp, so losing few games do not hurt that much then ;) .