Questions about APLs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Questions about APLs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Aleseus
09-15-04, 10:14 AM My group has finally succeded in attaining level two. They have asked me about possibly playing the next adventure at APL4, even tho all of them are still level two. Is this possible?
Samwise
09-15-04, 11:35 AM If there are six of them, then yes.
But for virtually all modules I would very strongly recommend against it. Particularly newer modules, which are significantly more unforgiving of those who choose to play up with no one of the appropriate level. (Especially those evil Keoland regionals. ;) )
Tell your players to stick with APL 2 until they hit 3rd level and have no choice. They will appreciate surviving, never mind staying in the campaign longer.
Sieylianna
09-15-04, 12:39 PM If there are six of them, then yes.
But for virtually all modules I would very strongly recommend against it. Particularly newer modules, which are significantly more unforgiving of those who choose to play up with no one of the appropriate level. (Especially those evil Keoland regionals. ;) )
Tell your players to stick with APL 2 until they hit 3rd level and have no choice. They will appreciate surviving, never mind staying in the campaign longer.

I agree, but would recommend against it for ANY module. I've seen fireballs in APL 4 and recently survived an assassin't death attack (Fortitude DC 17) in a recent module at APL 4.

Unless you have some PCs who are above the APL, playing up is a bad idea. A whole party who is under the APL will see multiple deaths unless your judge is extremely lenient. I'm fairly lenient with PCs who are forced to play up due to the composition of the table. I don't pull any punches when people deliberately decide to play up.

Ed
SteveMND
09-15-04, 12:43 PM Or look at it this way -- at APL4, the challenges are in theory designed to make for a tough fight for a full table of six very effective PCs, all of whom are 4th level, work together well, and have complimentary abilities, skills and equipment.

Now, look at the group you are thinking on playing up with. Do you think you could match up to such a theoretical party in terms of what you can and can't handle? If so, go ahead, but if you have any hesitation, I'd stick with APL2 for now.

A lot of people in the game think it's some sort of 'race' to see who can get to the highest level first, when in fact that just determines who is retired from the campaign the soonest, and thus can't be played anymore.

Personally, i don't even mind playing down on occasion; the longer my character takes to level out of the campaign, the longer I get to have fun with him in it. :)
oroborous
09-16-04, 05:12 AM Speaking from experience, as soon as I level up to 2 I ALWAYS play up. That being said, I concur that playing an adventure at APL4 with a whole table of 2nd level PCs isn't advisable. Unless the judge is softballing it, the encounters might be too tough. I’ve been brought to negative hit points in each adventure I’ve played up with my newest character, and only the intervention of higher level characters saved me.
Arinaad
10-03-04, 07:14 PM In the recent months I have found that the modules have been getting increasingly less forgiving and the percentage chance of surviving has dropped quite a bit. I recently played at a game day in which the majority of the modules were minimum APL 6. To provide the newer players the opportunity to play a module I played down (something that I really hate to do) to APL 6 with my lvl 10 (Ftr 5/Rog 4/OBI 1). Along with my character a second character, lvl 8 straight cleric who I have seen do an excess of 70 points of damage every round for a combat joined us. The party survived, but not without encountering a virtually impossible encounter to defeat, from which we actually ran. Unless you actually have PCs that legitimately cause the table to exceed the APL it is highly inadvisable to play up. I do know that I come from a region that is poor in access, but that should not matter when playing down 4 levels.

That's my 2 cents.
Arinaad
Bluesman1962
10-12-04, 07:16 PM I just played in my first LG module. We were a group of 6 characters. We had a split of 3-1st level and 3-2nd level characters. We were in an APL 2 module and well to be honest it was very difficult. It could have been because of party composition; 2 mages, 2 clerics, 1 bard, and 1 fighter. Ihave to say some of the players mad a decision that I did not agree with and it nearly cost us the fighter and one of the clerics. Could the same group handle an APL 4 module? I would have to say that some us would have to take more of a leadership role and as a whole the group would need to work together a lot better. We did not work together during the encounters it was as if we all wanted the glory and teamwork did not matter.

All in all I would say do not play up in APL unless you are a group that plays together on a regular basis and know what to expect from the other characters.
CruelDM
10-12-04, 07:28 PM A full table of 4th level characters (6 players)is actually APL 5 not 4. Apl 4 is for 4 characters of level 4, or 6 of level 3 if you use the guidelines (assuming none have bought or bring animals that can add to the APL). That being said, playing up is a very risky proposition, unless the judge is forgiving and pulls some punches. To answer your question though, yes you can play APL4 at 2nd level and get full XP, provided you survive. I only recommend it if the players are comfortable playing together and have a good mix of classes or are fighter heavy.
theliel
10-12-04, 08:29 PM or you've got a party you know blows through mods you play at apl.

i always play down when achieving a new apl, real the description of the module, and then make the decision. the jump between 2 and 4 can be harsh, but not killer (except in certian mods), the jump between 4 and 6 is usually the harshest.

but seriously, it's always a bad idea to play 'up'.
lutherreed
10-13-04, 10:36 AM Keep in mind as well the fact that 1st level Characters would take 1/2 exp and 1/2 gold in an APL4 game. Which means they would most likely endup with less exp and gold than if they played at APL2. It just plain isn't worth all that extra risk.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aleseus 09-15-04, 10:14 AM	My group has finally succeded in attaining level two. They have asked me about possibly playing the next adventure at APL4, even tho all of them are still level two. Is this possible?
Samwise 09-15-04, 11:35 AM	If there are six of them, then yes. But for virtually all modules I would very strongly recommend against it. Particularly newer modules, which are significantly more unforgiving of those who choose to play up with no one of the appropriate level. (Especially those evil Keoland regionals. ;) ) Tell your players to stick with APL 2 until they hit 3rd level and have no choice. They will appreciate surviving, never mind staying in the campaign longer.
Sieylianna 09-15-04, 12:39 PM	If there are six of them, then yes. But for virtually all modules I would very strongly recommend against it. Particularly newer modules, which are significantly more unforgiving of those who choose to play up with no one of the appropriate level. (Especially those evil Keoland regionals. ;) ) Tell your players to stick with APL 2 until they hit 3rd level and have no choice. They will appreciate surviving, never mind staying in the campaign longer. I agree, but would recommend against it for ANY module. I've seen fireballs in APL 4 and recently survived an assassin't death attack (Fortitude DC 17) in a recent module at APL 4. Unless you have some PCs who are above the APL, playing up is a bad idea. A whole party who is under the APL will see multiple deaths unless your judge is extremely lenient. I'm fairly lenient with PCs who are forced to play up due to the composition of the table. I don't pull any punches when people deliberately decide to play up. Ed
SteveMND 09-15-04, 12:43 PM	Or look at it this way -- at APL4, the challenges are in theory designed to make for a tough fight for a full table of six very effective PCs, all of whom are 4th level, work together well, and have complimentary abilities, skills and equipment. Now, look at the group you are thinking on playing up with. Do you think you could match up to such a theoretical party in terms of what you can and can't handle? If so, go ahead, but if you have any hesitation, I'd stick with APL2 for now. A lot of people in the game think it's some sort of 'race' to see who can get to the highest level first, when in fact that just determines who is retired from the campaign the soonest, and thus can't be played anymore. Personally, i don't even mind playing down on occasion; the longer my character takes to level out of the campaign, the longer I get to have fun with him in it. :)
oroborous 09-16-04, 05:12 AM	Speaking from experience, as soon as I level up to 2 I ALWAYS play up. That being said, I concur that playing an adventure at APL4 with a whole table of 2nd level PCs isn't advisable. Unless the judge is softballing it, the encounters might be too tough. I’ve been brought to negative hit points in each adventure I’ve played up with my newest character, and only the intervention of higher level characters saved me.
Arinaad 10-03-04, 07:14 PM	In the recent months I have found that the modules have been getting increasingly less forgiving and the percentage chance of surviving has dropped quite a bit. I recently played at a game day in which the majority of the modules were minimum APL 6. To provide the newer players the opportunity to play a module I played down (something that I really hate to do) to APL 6 with my lvl 10 (Ftr 5/Rog 4/OBI 1). Along with my character a second character, lvl 8 straight cleric who I have seen do an excess of 70 points of damage every round for a combat joined us. The party survived, but not without encountering a virtually impossible encounter to defeat, from which we actually ran. Unless you actually have PCs that legitimately cause the table to exceed the APL it is highly inadvisable to play up. I do know that I come from a region that is poor in access, but that should not matter when playing down 4 levels. That's my 2 cents. Arinaad
Bluesman1962 10-12-04, 07:16 PM	I just played in my first LG module. We were a group of 6 characters. We had a split of 3-1st level and 3-2nd level characters. We were in an APL 2 module and well to be honest it was very difficult. It could have been because of party composition; 2 mages, 2 clerics, 1 bard, and 1 fighter. Ihave to say some of the players mad a decision that I did not agree with and it nearly cost us the fighter and one of the clerics. Could the same group handle an APL 4 module? I would have to say that some us would have to take more of a leadership role and as a whole the group would need to work together a lot better. We did not work together during the encounters it was as if we all wanted the glory and teamwork did not matter. All in all I would say do not play up in APL unless you are a group that plays together on a regular basis and know what to expect from the other characters.
CruelDM 10-12-04, 07:28 PM	A full table of 4th level characters (6 players)is actually APL 5 not 4. Apl 4 is for 4 characters of level 4, or 6 of level 3 if you use the guidelines (assuming none have bought or bring animals that can add to the APL). That being said, playing up is a very risky proposition, unless the judge is forgiving and pulls some punches. To answer your question though, yes you can play APL4 at 2nd level and get full XP, provided you survive. I only recommend it if the players are comfortable playing together and have a good mix of classes or are fighter heavy.
theliel 10-12-04, 08:29 PM	or you've got a party you know blows through mods you play at apl. i always play down when achieving a new apl, real the description of the module, and then make the decision. the jump between 2 and 4 can be harsh, but not killer (except in certian mods), the jump between 4 and 6 is usually the harshest. but seriously, it's always a bad idea to play 'up'.
lutherreed 10-13-04, 10:36 AM	Keep in mind as well the fact that 1st level Characters would take 1/2 exp and 1/2 gold in an APL4 game. Which means they would most likely endup with less exp and gold than if they played at APL2. It just plain isn't worth all that extra risk.