Questions on spell charges [Archive] - Wizards Community

Questions on spell charges [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Maesto
09-26-06, 02:22 AM Hi all,

I've got two questions, both to do with holding the charge on a spell.

First: I can comprehend languages in combat. I want to touch a baddie, so that I can understand the insults that we're getting yelled in combat. Question - does it provoke an attack of opportunity when I make the touch attack (effectively an unarmed strike with a spell charge), and do I threaten with the charge? I'd argue that unless the baddies recognised the spell with spellcraft, it should be treated the same way as a shocking grasp. The DM I had when I pulled this off said that I didn't threaten with the charge, and that I took AoO's while attempting to touch the baddies with it, but I disagree. Thoughts?

Secondly: I'm a wizard with combat expertise. I cast shocking grasp, move up to the baddy, and touch him with it. Am I allowed to use combat expertise on this touch attack? I'd argue yes, but then you have a similar situation where you move, then cast and touch, where it's more of a spell than a melee attack. Note that I'd still argue yes, but I just wanted to see what everybody else thought.

Cheers,

Jolyon
Timlagor
09-26-06, 01:22 PM I'd say you had to grapple them and would prvoke.

Comprehend Languages is not a spell you cast on others and there is no charge to hold. Furthermore you need to be touching the other throughout their speech so a single touch would not suffice (hence the grapple).

-------------
I'd allow CE on delivering a touch spell. You'd be on firmer ground if you cast the spell and deliver it in different rounds.
salp
09-30-06, 12:48 PM Where does it imply that someone who casts Comprehend Languages must maintain a touch in order for the spell to work?

Thanks from Sal.
Iswald
10-01-06, 11:11 AM Comp. languages is a personal spell with a target of 'you' which means you cast it on yourself, so it has no charge to hold. But, you have to touch the person or writing that you want to understand. If you remove the contact, the spell is still in effect on yourself, but you are no longer touching the person or writing that you are trying to understand, so your comphresion of the subject is gone.

On the second question, you did make an attack and can use expertise with it lasting until the start of your next round.
SgtHulka
10-01-06, 11:20 AM I've always been curious about the Combat Expertise (or even Attacking Defensively) question with regards to spells like Cure Light Wounds. This is a touch spell, so, technically, you ought to be able to use full Combat Expertise and Casting Defensively when you deliver it to an ally, receiving +6 to your Armor Class on rounds you cast Cure Light Wounds.

That said, I suppose the DM would be within his rights to demand an attack roll. Even at Armor Class 0 a "1" would still miss.

Hm, reading the SRD, it says "You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll." Since it's automatic, I suppose Combat Expertise/Casting Defensively wouldn't be allowed after all. It also says "Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity." Which to me would imply that Touching an ally is not considered an armed attack, and therefore reinforces the idea of no Combat Expertise or Attacking Defensively. :(
Dasher2k
10-02-06, 12:59 AM I am using the SRD but combat expertise requires the use of the "attack action or the full attack action in melee" to receive the benefit of the feat.

COMBAT EXPERTISE [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Int 13.

Benefit: When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of as much as –5 on your attack roll and add the same number (+5 or less) as a dodge bonus to your Armor Class. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The changes to attack rolls and Armor Class last until your next action.

Normal: A character without the Combat Expertise feat can fight defensively while using the attack or full attack action to take a –4 penalty on attack rolls and gain a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class.

Special: A fighter may select Combat Expertise as one of his fighter bonus feats.
DuctShuiTengu
10-02-06, 01:24 AM So smack your buddy with the Cure spell. If I remember correctly, you heal non-lethal and lethal at the same time, so most of the time, the few points of subdual damage you cause by backhanding them will be healed by the spell without interfering with its ability to fix their other injuries (if your buddy has been taking subdual from something, that's another matter). And while it may provoke an Attack of Opportunity from the guy you're healing (depending on your DM), but they don't have to take it.

On the other hand, going this route, you may be losing the ability to cast the spell and tag your buddy with it in one round. The rules aren't as clear on that part as I might like.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Maesto 09-26-06, 02:22 AM	Hi all, I've got two questions, both to do with holding the charge on a spell. First: I can comprehend languages in combat. I want to touch a baddie, so that I can understand the insults that we're getting yelled in combat. Question - does it provoke an attack of opportunity when I make the touch attack (effectively an unarmed strike with a spell charge), and do I threaten with the charge? I'd argue that unless the baddies recognised the spell with spellcraft, it should be treated the same way as a shocking grasp. The DM I had when I pulled this off said that I didn't threaten with the charge, and that I took AoO's while attempting to touch the baddies with it, but I disagree. Thoughts? Secondly: I'm a wizard with combat expertise. I cast shocking grasp, move up to the baddy, and touch him with it. Am I allowed to use combat expertise on this touch attack? I'd argue yes, but then you have a similar situation where you move, then cast and touch, where it's more of a spell than a melee attack. Note that I'd still argue yes, but I just wanted to see what everybody else thought. Cheers, Jolyon
Timlagor 09-26-06, 01:22 PM	I'd say you had to grapple them and would prvoke. Comprehend Languages is not a spell you cast on others and there is no charge to hold. Furthermore you need to be touching the other throughout their speech so a single touch would not suffice (hence the grapple). ------------- I'd allow CE on delivering a touch spell. You'd be on firmer ground if you cast the spell and deliver it in different rounds.
salp 09-30-06, 12:48 PM	Where does it imply that someone who casts Comprehend Languages must maintain a touch in order for the spell to work? Thanks from Sal.
Iswald 10-01-06, 11:11 AM	Comp. languages is a personal spell with a target of 'you' which means you cast it on yourself, so it has no charge to hold. But, you have to touch the person or writing that you want to understand. If you remove the contact, the spell is still in effect on yourself, but you are no longer touching the person or writing that you are trying to understand, so your comphresion of the subject is gone. On the second question, you did make an attack and can use expertise with it lasting until the start of your next round.
SgtHulka 10-01-06, 11:20 AM	I've always been curious about the Combat Expertise (or even Attacking Defensively) question with regards to spells like Cure Light Wounds. This is a touch spell, so, technically, you ought to be able to use full Combat Expertise and Casting Defensively when you deliver it to an ally, receiving +6 to your Armor Class on rounds you cast Cure Light Wounds. That said, I suppose the DM would be within his rights to demand an attack roll. Even at Armor Class 0 a "1" would still miss. Hm, reading the SRD, it says "You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll." Since it's automatic, I suppose Combat Expertise/Casting Defensively wouldn't be allowed after all. It also says "Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity." Which to me would imply that Touching an ally is not considered an armed attack, and therefore reinforces the idea of no Combat Expertise or Attacking Defensively. :(
Dasher2k 10-02-06, 12:59 AM	I am using the SRD but combat expertise requires the use of the "attack action or the full attack action in melee" to receive the benefit of the feat. COMBAT EXPERTISE [GENERAL] Prerequisite: Int 13. Benefit: When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of as much as –5 on your attack roll and add the same number (+5 or less) as a dodge bonus to your Armor Class. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The changes to attack rolls and Armor Class last until your next action. Normal: A character without the Combat Expertise feat can fight defensively while using the attack or full attack action to take a –4 penalty on attack rolls and gain a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class. Special: A fighter may select Combat Expertise as one of his fighter bonus feats.
DuctShuiTengu 10-02-06, 01:24 AM	So smack your buddy with the Cure spell. If I remember correctly, you heal non-lethal and lethal at the same time, so most of the time, the few points of subdual damage you cause by backhanding them will be healed by the spell without interfering with its ability to fix their other injuries (if your buddy has been taking subdual from something, that's another matter). And while it may provoke an Attack of Opportunity from the guy you're healing (depending on your DM), but they don't have to take it. On the other hand, going this route, you may be losing the ability to cast the spell and tag your buddy with it in one round. The rules aren't as clear on that part as I might like.