Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Swiftbrook 11-16-06, 01:21 PM	After reading several threads about Archers, I thought I'd ask this question: If your character was audited by the DM, what whould you say you where carrying in your Quiver of Ehlonna (specifically arrow selection)? That question comes up because it seems like most archers have: 20 Silver 20 Adamite 10 Blunt 5 Serpent Tongue 5 Dragon's Breath 5 Flight 60 (15 rounds) Standard Seeing that the quiver only holds 60 arrows, that's a problem. Note: I don't have my books handy so the exact names of some of the ammunition may be misspelled. I purchased a pack saddle for my animal companion just to carry extra quivers of arrows. Even though I'm 7th level, I just purchased my Quiver of Ehlonna (other things just kept comming up). My breakdown is as follows: (I can only fire 3 turn right now) 6 Silver 0 Adamite (no access yet) 3 Blunt 3 Serpent Tongue 3 Dragon's Breath 0 Flight 35 (11 rounds) Standard -Swiftbrook
DuctShuiTengu 11-16-06, 02:04 PM	That's why I went and got a second QoE. And at present, I have 20 Silver 20 Cold Iron 20 Blunt 60 Standard
solbergb 11-16-06, 02:11 PM	Heh...my archer has hundreds of arrows of each type, packed into a haversack in quivers. But "active" he's always got: 20 blunt 20 cold iron 20 silver 20 adamantine 20 serpentstongue 20 swiftwing 20 flight and also a fair stock of normal arrows You need 20 arrows. If you fire 3-4 arrows a round, you need enough to see you through a long combat, and even 20 is only 5 hasted rounds. You don't want to be digging in your pack for more serpenttongue arrows when the treant is trampling the party. I also am not entirely convinced that blunt and serpentstongue really fit in Quiver slots (they have very fat arrow heads) and the flight arrows are longer so I use the javelin slots for them (so not quite 20). I don't always have the Ehlonna quiver either, but I do have a oversized Prelatal Army quiver that holds 60 arrows...so usually I do something along these lines: Quiver Pholtus with silver, cold iron, adamantine, flight, wherever normal quivers go. Probably carried more like a scabbarded weapon, like in some of the illustrations in the PHB. Prelatal Army "60" quiver with normal, and swiftwing arrows, on back One "20" quiver with blunt, right side of haversack One "20" quiver with serpentstongue, left side of haversack The less extradimensional storage I have, the more I describe myself as having every available space filled with quivers of weird ammo.
Lupo 11-16-06, 02:35 PM	After reading several threads about Archers, I thought I'd ask this question: If your character was audited by the DM, what whould you say you where carrying in your Quiver of Ehlonna (specifically arrow selection)? That question comes up because it seems like most archers have: 20 Silver 20 Adamite 10 Blunt 5 Serpent Tongue 5 Dragon's Breath 5 Flight 60 (15 rounds) Standard Seeing that the quiver only holds 60 arrows, that's a problem. Note: I don't have my books handy so the exact names of some of the ammunition may be misspelled. I purchased a pack saddle for my animal companion just to carry extra quivers of arrows. Even though I'm 7th level, I just purchased my Quiver of Ehlonna (other things just kept comming up). My breakdown is as follows: (I can only fire 3 turn right now) 6 Silver 0 Adamite (no access yet) 3 Blunt 3 Serpent Tongue 3 Dragon's Breath 0 Flight 35 (11 rounds) Standard -Swiftbrook any archer (more than 3 arrows per round) above level 3 should use cold iron as the standard variety (the cost increase is really low). use cold iron serpenttongue if access is given. carry these in a standard quiver. have a second quiver with silvered, and with access silvered serpenttongue at hand the quiver of ehlonna is for the really valuable or seldom used arrows that one want to have handy like adamantine, blunt, dragion's breath, flight arrows. ciao martin m.
Japangirl 11-16-06, 03:06 PM	This is probably a silly question but worth asking all the same. My halfling is likely to encounter situations where I can throw daggers instead of having to be close up, and I will have the Quick Draw feat. Quivers of Ehlonna say you can put arrows or arrow-like items in them. Small daggers are about the size of a medium arrowhead, so if I tied strings to the daggers could I use the Quiver of Ehlonna to hold 60 daggers?
Britt 11-16-06, 03:36 PM	I think you'd have to tie sticks to them, which would make them a little less functional.
Maesto 11-17-06, 05:25 PM	Where are you guys finding access to these funky arrow types?! I've spent 150 ARs belonging to Perrenland and I've never seen access (exception - I have seen blunt arrows).
Lupo 11-17-06, 05:34 PM	Where are you guys finding access to these funky arrow types?! I've spent 150 ARs belonging to Perrenland and I've never seen access (exception - I have seen blunt arrows). lady luck is a b**** ;) i have access to all funky arrows BUT adamantine, in fact i have no adamantine access whatsoever :( ciao martin m.
Swiftbrook 11-17-06, 05:44 PM	Where are you guys finding access to these funky arrow types?! I've spent 150 ARs belonging to Perrenland and I've never seen access (exception - I have seen blunt arrows). Silver and Cold Iron are standard access per LGCS (this is what I recall) Green Jerkins in Furyondy give access to blunt arrow (RW), dragonsbreath arrow (CW), serpentstongue arrow (RW), swiftwing arrow (RW) I don't have access to adimite arrows yet. -Swiftbrook
solbergb 11-17-06, 06:25 PM	silver cold iron = std access Adamantine = wait till level 7, use cash I was saving for a bow to use a oneshot regional favor. Then of course immediately get single-arrow access two AR's later. blunt, flight, swiftwing, serpernttongue = do a bunch of adventures for elves that craft the darn things. They're kinda useless elves otherwise, effete..but they make good arrows and elvencraft bows. Then later I got metaorg access to some of them.
Frumpkis 11-17-06, 08:33 PM	Where are you guys finding access to these funky arrow types?! I've spent 150 ARs belonging to Perrenland and I've never seen access (exception - I have seen blunt arrows). There's a certain Core Special (still in play) which offers access to starmetal. Not only does starmetal function exactly like adamantine, but on top of that, it does +1d6 dmg vs. extraplanar creatures. This is especially useful for archers: it helps in the two areas that archers tend to have troubles with - DR, and low damage output. Think of starmetal arrows as a cheap form of Bane(all outsiders).:D
_m_ 11-20-06, 08:32 PM	There's a certain Core Special (still in play) which offers access to starmetal. Not only does starmetal function exactly like adamantine, but on top of that, it does +1d6 dmg vs. extraplanar creatures. This is especially useful for archers: it helps in the two areas that archers tend to have troubles with - DR, and low damage output. Think of starmetal arrows as a cheap form of Bane(all outsiders).:D a... cheap form? how much does a single starmetal arrow cost?
Frumpkis 11-21-06, 05:09 AM	a... cheap form? how much does a single starmetal arrow cost? Well, I suppose that could be subject to DM variation, but my judge ruled it this way: Starmetal weapons cost 5000 gp beyond what a similar weapon made of steel would cost, and starmetal armour costs the same as adamantine. In the DMG, you buy magical arrows in batches of 50; 50 masterwork arrows, according to the DMG, cost 350 gp. Therefore, a batch of 50 starmetal arrows would be 5050 gp. YMMV.
Mommy was an Orc 11-21-06, 09:02 AM	Well, I suppose that could be subject to DM variation, but my judge ruled it this way: Starmetal weapons cost 5000 gp beyond what a similar weapon made of steel would cost, and starmetal armour costs the same as adamantine. In the DMG, you buy magical arrows in batches of 50; 50 masterwork arrows, according to the DMG, cost 350 gp. Therefore, a batch of 50 starmetal arrows would be 5050 gp. YMMV. Starmetal is by definition MW. The correct cost is 5002.5 gp or 100 gp + .05 per arrow(similar to how Adamantine arrows are priced in the FAQ)
solbergb 11-21-06, 01:13 PM	Which makes a starmetal volley fairly pricey. Almost as much as a L3 potion or L4 scroll. OTOH, bane arrows are 8k for 50, giving +2 to hit and avg +9 damage vs +3.5. Bane arrows are probably a better buy. Adamantine are worth the cost for DR defeating (translates into ~+10 damage at 3k/50). I'm not convinced starmetal arrows are worth it unless you fight a lot of extraplanar constructs or outsiders with stoneskin running.
Frumpkis 11-21-06, 04:57 PM	The advantage of starmetal over bane arrows is that starmetal affects all extraplanar creatures, whereas bane arrows (or bane enhancement on a bow) only affects a specific subcategory of outsiders. *shrug* Like I said, YMMV.
Mommy was an Orc 11-21-06, 07:20 PM	The advantage of starmetal over bane arrows is that starmetal affects all extraplanar creatures, whereas bane arrows (or bane enhancement on a bow) only affects a specific subcategory of outsiders. *shrug* Like I said, YMMV. That's an argument for getting a couple varieties of bane arrows, not necessarily going starmetal. If you're going to spend 100-160 gold per shot, I'd make sure to get arrows that pierce common outsider DR first, something Starmetal isn't very good at... 40 Starmetal arrows ~ 4002 gold 10 Bane(Elemental), 10 Bane(Evil Outsider), and 15 Adamantine ~ 4100
_m_ 11-21-06, 07:29 PM	That's an argument for getting a couple varieties of bane arrows, not necessarily going starmetal. If you're going to spend 100-160 gold per shot, I'd make sure to get arrows that pierce common outsider DR first, something Starmetal isn't very good at... 40 Starmetal arrows ~ 4002 gold 10 Bane(Elemental), 10 Bane(Evil Outsider), and 15 Adamantine ~ 4100 personally (and i dont play an archer, so im probably wrong) id rather not spend thousands and thousands of gold on arrows. id rather get a nice good baney bow, and just use it alot. for DR that i couldnt get through without billion dollar (ok, possibly a SLIGHT exaggeration) arrows... id just get someone else to kill it. i mean, DR 10 really isnt all THAT big a deal when you do 60 damage per shot.
Mommy was an Orc 11-21-06, 07:50 PM	personally (and i dont play an archer, so im probably wrong) id rather not spend thousands and thousands of gold on arrows. id rather get a nice good baney bow, and just use it alot. for DR that i couldnt get through without billion dollar (ok, possibly a SLIGHT exaggeration) arrows... id just get someone else to kill it. i mean, DR 10 really isnt all THAT big a deal when you do 60 damage per shot. I'm not planning to spend thousands of gold on arrows either - I plan to pick up an Adamantine melee weapon of some sort and invest the savings into better armor. It isn't my ideal situation, but I occasionally find myself on the front lines anyway. However, very few archers do 60 damage per shot - if they are, they're probably adding things up wrong.
_m_ 11-21-06, 08:06 PM	I'm not planning to spend thousands of gold on arrows either - I plan to pick up an Adamantine melee weapon of some sort and invest the savings into better armor. It isn't my ideal situation, but I occasionally find myself on the front lines anyway. However, very few archers do 60 damage per shot - if they are, they're probably adding things up wrong. i dunno. the last time i played in a game with hi end archers, the 2 of them where rolling roughly a handfull of dice. richard, who was a 15 at the time i think, would pick up a small army of dice and crush the table with them. they just seemed to have alot of extra stuff going on. and they were just using adamantine. tho i guess, if you do 60+ per shot, you're also probaby high enough to afford special arrows :D
solbergb 11-21-06, 08:59 PM	Most archers at high levels do something like 20-30 a shot. But they shoot 5 times and hit every single time. Which lets them roll big handfulls of dice. It's kinda similar with Burke. When he's enlarged, he's rolling 15d6+some large number....very much like my old Champions days. With flame blade and enlarge, 15d6+5d8. If he's in troglodyte form too 18d6+5d8 Archers and monks do about half their damage in raw dice. Rogues tend to do most of it. 2H fighters, by contrast do most of their damage with raw damage, and relatively little with the dice they roll. So while it LOOKS impressive, it can add up to only a normal kinda damage for that level. I went with adamantine arrows. I don't fight constructs or stoneskinned folks that often, but when I do they are universally dangerous and I don't want to give up all my lovely ranged attack feats. Plus I don't really want to expose myself to close combat with the constructs or have to chase down the druids and wizards. They're not that expensive because 50 arrows lasts a good long time, especially if you're picky about rolling for survival of any that miss.
_m_ 11-21-06, 10:09 PM	Most archers at high levels do something like 20-30 a shot. But they shoot 5 times and hit every single time. Which lets them roll big handfulls of dice. It's kinda similar with Burke. When he's enlarged, he's rolling 15d6+some large number....very much like my old Champions days. With flame blade and enlarge, 15d6+5d8. If he's in troglodyte form too 18d6+5d8 Archers and monks do about half their damage in raw dice. Rogues tend to do most of it. 2H fighters, by contrast do most of their damage with raw damage, and relatively little with the dice they roll. So while it LOOKS impressive, it can add up to only a normal kinda damage for that level. I went with adamantine arrows. I don't fight constructs or stoneskinned folks that often, but when I do they are universally dangerous and I don't want to give up all my lovely ranged attack feats. Plus I don't really want to expose myself to close combat with the constructs or have to chase down the druids and wizards. They're not that expensive because 50 arrows lasts a good long time, especially if you're picky about rolling for survival of any that miss. guess it depends wather you went for single shot obi (i think thats the right one) style precision damage on just the one, or went for a rogue scout stalker with flaming bow for a whole bunch of stackable damage.
clannagh 11-22-06, 12:33 AM	my archer has access to blunt and sleep and arrows of flight lots of funky stuff, but i must admit most of it has turned up since leaving the iuz metaregional .. seems nyrond is much more archer friendly as for the original list why on earth does anyone carry standard arrows at all 20 standard arrows 1 gp 20 cold iron arows 2 gp just carry cold iron and be done with it same for bullets :) oh yes .. and do keep a few arrows outside the quiver otherwise antimagic fields could leave your archer very embaressed throwing rocks in combat
Frumpkis 11-22-06, 05:30 AM	That's an argument for getting a couple varieties of bane arrows, not necessarily going starmetal. If you're going to spend 100-160 gold per shot, I'd make sure to get arrows that pierce common outsider DR first, something Starmetal isn't very good at... 40 Starmetal arrows ~ 4002 gold 10 Bane(Elemental), 10 Bane(Evil Outsider), and 15 Adamantine ~ 4100 Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you had to buy magical arrows in batches of 50.
Swiftbrook 11-22-06, 07:54 AM	So, I buy some Bane(Evil Outsider) Starmetal arrows. Come across the BBG (Evil Outsider of course). Use my Frosty Sacred bow, hasted with rapid shot: To Hit is like +16/+16/+16/+10 Dammage (per arrow) 1d8 +3 Str +1 magic +1d6 Frost +2d6 Bane +2d6 Sacred +1d6 Starmetal +4 Favored Enemy for an average of 30 per arrow, or 120 if all 4 hit.:cool: I can live with that. -Swiftbrook (note: it's early, I have no books, my math might be slightly off but the point is still hits the target)
Mommy was an Orc 11-22-06, 09:13 AM	So, I buy some Bane(Evil Outsider) Starmetal arrows. Come across the BBG (Evil Outsider of course). Use my Frosty Sacred bow, hasted with rapid shot: To Hit is like +16/+16/+16/+10 Dammage (per arrow) 1d8 +3 Str +1 magic +1d6 Frost +2d6 Bane +2d6 Sacred +1d6 Starmetal +4 Favored Enemy for an average of 30 per arrow, or 120 if all 4 hit.:cool: Of course, lots of evil outsiders have DR 5/Silver or DR 5/Cold Iron(or worse). Very few have Adamantine. You just spent an extra 100 gold an arrow to do 1.5 less damage on average per arrow. Bane adds an extra +2 damage. Not to mention, those 4 shots just cost you 1040 gold for 1 round's worth of shots. You had better kill it with that 120 hp of damage...
Mommy was an Orc 11-22-06, 09:17 AM	Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you had to buy magical arrows in batches of 50. You're required to make magical arrows in batches of 50. There's no requirement to actually buy 50 arrows. In any case, the point wasn't that - the point was that you could buy roughly the same number of arrows, but instead of only getting +1d6 damage most of the time, you could get +2d6+2 damage and +2 to hit instead.
solbergb 11-22-06, 02:01 PM	I carry normal arrows because they 20 of them refresh between adventures without me having to micromanage it on my MIL or "other coin spent". Which isn't a very good reason actually :)
clannagh 11-22-06, 05:22 PM	I carry normal arrows because they 20 of them refresh between adventures without me having to micromanage it on my MIL or "other coin spent". Which isn't a very good reason actually :) I had always assumed cold iron arrows being standard access items that do not require an AR or meta-org did not need to be tracked on the MIL .. though I may be wrong on that. I was also toldat one stage that cold iron arrows replenished like normal ones but that I am pretty sure was an error. As for tracking ... one easy solution is to just throw away your surplus arrows and spend 2 gc on new ones every game so you always start with 20.
_m_ 11-22-06, 06:14 PM	I had always assumed cold iron arrows being standard access items that do not require an AR or meta-org did not need to be tracked on the MIL .. though I may be wrong on that. I was also toldat one stage that cold iron arrows replenished like normal ones but that I am pretty sure was an error. As for tracking ... one easy solution is to just throw away your surplus arrows and spend 2 gc on new ones every game so you always start with 20. actually im pretty sure that u can buy cold iron arrows as part of your standard upkeep if you want to. the full batch costs almost nothing.
nobodez 11-25-06, 01:44 PM	My primary character has three QoE, and I have an equipment sheet that details what's in every quiver, as well as my HHH. I made it in excel, and it works great. 20 silver, 20 cold iron, 20 normal/60 normal/60 normal is what I usually carry. I'll probably upgrade all my extras to CI since they're gonna be above and beyond upkeep anyway.
solbergb 11-26-06, 11:01 AM	What you can buy as part of std upkeep is spelled out in the LGCS. only ORDINARY arrows replenish (and only 20 of them, ie 1gp worth) It isn't that big a deal. You can generally spend a gp or two in "other coin spent" and replenish most ammunition, but sometimes access will prevent this (not for cold iron, but for things like blunt arrows) In theory, anything that isn't in the PHB is supposed to be tracked on the MIL. Cold iron arrows fit that category and if they aren't on your MIL, some judge who is having a bad day may disallow them. I have had silver arrows checked from time to time, generally in extended combats where I have fired quite a few volleys of them...
retro 11-26-06, 11:35 PM	Where are you guys finding access to these funky arrow types?! I've spent 150 ARs belonging to Perrenland and I've never seen access (exception - I have seen blunt arrows).I hear you, Maesto. My Perrender archer used to have access to adamantine arrows only, until he switched to Ratik in October. In the first couple of NMR adventures I played, he got more funky arrow access than i knew what to do with. I should probably buy another QoE, now that I think about it.
clannagh 11-27-06, 12:31 AM	I hear you, Maesto. My Perrender archer used to have access to adamantine arrows only, until he switched to Ratik in October. In the first couple of NMR adventures I played, he got more funky arrow access than i knew what to do with. I should probably buy another QoE, now that I think about it. naughty spoiler mentioning AR access ... but yes changing from iuz metaregion to nyrond metaregion was pretty amazing for my archer .. much much less high DR undead shambling about and lots of funky elfy archer goodness in the loot
Gwumph 11-27-06, 05:57 AM	I have a small sized character. Do you think a lance could fit in the third large size area. They mention spears and quarterstaffs which are both large sized weapons could fit there.
solbergb 11-27-06, 09:01 AM	Lances are reach weapons. Reach weapons pretty clearly don't fit into the quiver, except maybe something like spiked chain that "fold up". Spears are much shorter than lances. Look at the PHB illustrations.