racial substitution levels [Archive] - Wizards Community

racial substitution levels [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jamesnero
06-16-07, 03:36 PM are racial sub levels allowed in LG? Its my first LG game and I was going to build a halfling druid I wanted to use the sub levels in races of the wild. Im not sure if I have access.

thanks for all your help.

James
Franco Un-American
06-16-07, 05:32 PM They're allowed, but you need to gain access in play/via a special mission before you can take them. Once you get access, you can retrain into the class features you want.
Swiftbrook
06-16-07, 05:38 PM Some regions/metaorgs allow access at time of creation. Look around.

-Swiftbrook
Britt
06-16-07, 08:19 PM I'm pretty sure they should not be offering access at character creation. That is not legal under the MO rules, AFAIK. Ability to join before your first adventure is not the same thing as being a member at character creation. All rules for character creation are in the LGCS, and MO options are not listed there.
ithardin
06-16-07, 08:56 PM Members of Clan Rockhall (a Verbobonc Regional Meta-org using the affiliation point system) provides access to the Dwarven Fighter and Dwarven Sorcerer Racial Substitution Levels once you have proven yourself to the Clan (gained enough affiliation points).

Ian
KShaver
06-17-07, 11:13 AM I'm pretty sure they should not be offering access at character creation. That is not legal under the MO rules, AFAIK. Ability to join before your first adventure is not the same thing as being a member at character creation. All rules for character creation are in the LGCS, and MO options are not listed there.

Which means retraining as soon as the character hits 2nd level. Personally I don't get it, all racial substitution levels start at first and many of the higher levels expand on their first level abilities. Might as well just allow the character to start with the levels rather than require them to spend 4TUs and 200g to go back for it at 2nd level.
Britt
06-17-07, 03:51 PM Whether it makes sense is not the point. The current rules, I'm pretty sure, do not allow it. If we consider a change in the future, we will take into account what makes sense, but the MOs need to follow the current rules.
Britt
06-17-07, 05:50 PM One thing people need to be careful about is just because you can do something before your first adventure, that does not mean you can do it during character creation. You can scribe a scroll before your first adventure, but that does not equate to scribing a scroll during character creation. MOs cannot currently grant character creation options. All rules for character creation are in the LGCS.
Samwise
06-17-07, 06:04 PM Errr . . .
You can't scribe a scroll before your first adventure. You don't have any xp to pay the cost.
You could scribe a scroll after you frist adventure, but you need those xp first.
Britt
06-17-07, 06:24 PM Ok, so ignoring the XP cost part :p You hopefully get what I mean that before AR 1 does not equate to at character creation.
Samwise
06-17-07, 06:41 PM Ok, so ignoring the XP cost part :p You hopefully get what I mean that before AR 1 does not equate to at character creation.

Yes, I do understand those are different.

I just wanted to make a note of that before I've had questions about when crafting takes place in relation to the AR. If it can happen after, then you should be able to scribe on AR 1. If it must happen before, then the xp requirement prevents it.
Swiftbrook
06-17-07, 07:46 PM One thing people need to be careful about is just because you can do something before your first adventure, that does not mean you can do it during character creation. You can scribe a scroll before your first adventure, but that does not equate to scribing a scroll during character creation. MOs cannot currently grant character creation options. All rules for character creation are in the LGCS.

OK, so that make sence. But if something like a racial substitution level is available on AR 1, is should also be available on AR 0 aka character creation. In effect what you are doing is charging a player/character 200 gp and three adventures (or less) to take an option that was available from the start. I view retraining as fixing mistakes or to some extent planned optimized builds. Having to retrain at 2nd level for an option you knew was available earlier seems like a waste of a retrain to me.

-Swiftbrook
Lupo
06-18-07, 07:08 PM are racial sub levels allowed in LG? Its my first LG game and I was going to build a halfling druid I wanted to use the sub levels in races of the wild. Im not sure if I have access.

thanks for all your help.

James

just out of curiosity - as i found a way to have an animal companion - ok, only a limited choice - with an effective druid level +4 - is there any region handing out gnome ranger racial substitution levels?? :D

ciao

martin m.

edit: ok, it is only +3 effective druid level, but with full BAB and NO druid levels ;)

edit again: with a player friendly interpretation of the natural bond feat the monstrosity would have an effective druid level of +6 from level 9 onwards :D
_metz_
06-18-07, 10:11 PM just out of curiosity - as i found a way to have an animal companion - ok, only a limited choice - with an effective druid level +4 - is there any region handing out gnome ranger racial substitution levels?? :D

ciao

martin m.

edit: ok, it is only +3 effective druid level, but with full BAB and NO druid levels ;)

edit again: with a player friendly interpretation of the natural bond feat the monstrosity would have an effective druid level of +6 from level 9 onwards :D

Natural Bond can't go above Hit dice on most tables, as per practiced spellcaster. (see Britt for more info)

And yes, we have found that trick too :P
KShaver
06-19-07, 09:04 AM just out of curiosity - as i found a way to have an animal companion - ok, only a limited choice - with an effective druid level +4 - is there any region handing out gnome ranger racial substitution levels?? :D

ciao

martin m.

edit: ok, it is only +3 effective druid level, but with full BAB and NO druid levels ;)

With one druid level thrown in there you could get +4, but you'd have a 20% xp penalty unless you took a couple more. (Rng4/Druid1-3/Bst+)

Consequently Veluna has gnome racial substitution available. Too bad my gnome was already well on the way to wolf lord before this happened, I did go back and retrain for 1st for the better bonus against giants.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jamesnero 06-16-07, 03:36 PM	are racial sub levels allowed in LG? Its my first LG game and I was going to build a halfling druid I wanted to use the sub levels in races of the wild. Im not sure if I have access. thanks for all your help. James
Franco Un-American 06-16-07, 05:32 PM	They're allowed, but you need to gain access in play/via a special mission before you can take them. Once you get access, you can retrain into the class features you want.
Swiftbrook 06-16-07, 05:38 PM	Some regions/metaorgs allow access at time of creation. Look around. -Swiftbrook
Britt 06-16-07, 08:19 PM	I'm pretty sure they should not be offering access at character creation. That is not legal under the MO rules, AFAIK. Ability to join before your first adventure is not the same thing as being a member at character creation. All rules for character creation are in the LGCS, and MO options are not listed there.
ithardin 06-16-07, 08:56 PM	Members of Clan Rockhall (a Verbobonc Regional Meta-org using the affiliation point system) provides access to the Dwarven Fighter and Dwarven Sorcerer Racial Substitution Levels once you have proven yourself to the Clan (gained enough affiliation points). Ian
KShaver 06-17-07, 11:13 AM	I'm pretty sure they should not be offering access at character creation. That is not legal under the MO rules, AFAIK. Ability to join before your first adventure is not the same thing as being a member at character creation. All rules for character creation are in the LGCS, and MO options are not listed there. Which means retraining as soon as the character hits 2nd level. Personally I don't get it, all racial substitution levels start at first and many of the higher levels expand on their first level abilities. Might as well just allow the character to start with the levels rather than require them to spend 4TUs and 200g to go back for it at 2nd level.
Britt 06-17-07, 03:51 PM	Whether it makes sense is not the point. The current rules, I'm pretty sure, do not allow it. If we consider a change in the future, we will take into account what makes sense, but the MOs need to follow the current rules.
Britt 06-17-07, 05:50 PM	One thing people need to be careful about is just because you can do something before your first adventure, that does not mean you can do it during character creation. You can scribe a scroll before your first adventure, but that does not equate to scribing a scroll during character creation. MOs cannot currently grant character creation options. All rules for character creation are in the LGCS.
Samwise 06-17-07, 06:04 PM	Errr . . . You can't scribe a scroll before your first adventure. You don't have any xp to pay the cost. You could scribe a scroll after you frist adventure, but you need those xp first.
Britt 06-17-07, 06:24 PM	Ok, so ignoring the XP cost part :p You hopefully get what I mean that before AR 1 does not equate to at character creation.
Samwise 06-17-07, 06:41 PM	Ok, so ignoring the XP cost part :p You hopefully get what I mean that before AR 1 does not equate to at character creation. Yes, I do understand those are different. I just wanted to make a note of that before I've had questions about when crafting takes place in relation to the AR. If it can happen after, then you should be able to scribe on AR 1. If it must happen before, then the xp requirement prevents it.
Swiftbrook 06-17-07, 07:46 PM	One thing people need to be careful about is just because you can do something before your first adventure, that does not mean you can do it during character creation. You can scribe a scroll before your first adventure, but that does not equate to scribing a scroll during character creation. MOs cannot currently grant character creation options. All rules for character creation are in the LGCS. OK, so that make sence. But if something like a racial substitution level is available on AR 1, is should also be available on AR 0 aka character creation. In effect what you are doing is charging a player/character 200 gp and three adventures (or less) to take an option that was available from the start. I view retraining as fixing mistakes or to some extent planned optimized builds. Having to retrain at 2nd level for an option you knew was available earlier seems like a waste of a retrain to me. -Swiftbrook
Lupo 06-18-07, 07:08 PM	are racial sub levels allowed in LG? Its my first LG game and I was going to build a halfling druid I wanted to use the sub levels in races of the wild. Im not sure if I have access. thanks for all your help. James just out of curiosity - as i found a way to have an animal companion - ok, only a limited choice - with an effective druid level +4 - is there any region handing out gnome ranger racial substitution levels?? :D ciao martin m. edit: ok, it is only +3 effective druid level, but with full BAB and NO druid levels ;) edit again: with a player friendly interpretation of the natural bond feat the monstrosity would have an effective druid level of +6 from level 9 onwards :D
_metz_ 06-18-07, 10:11 PM	just out of curiosity - as i found a way to have an animal companion - ok, only a limited choice - with an effective druid level +4 - is there any region handing out gnome ranger racial substitution levels?? :D ciao martin m. edit: ok, it is only +3 effective druid level, but with full BAB and NO druid levels ;) edit again: with a player friendly interpretation of the natural bond feat the monstrosity would have an effective druid level of +6 from level 9 onwards :D Natural Bond can't go above Hit dice on most tables, as per practiced spellcaster. (see Britt for more info) And yes, we have found that trick too :P
KShaver 06-19-07, 09:04 AM	just out of curiosity - as i found a way to have an animal companion - ok, only a limited choice - with an effective druid level +4 - is there any region handing out gnome ranger racial substitution levels?? :D ciao martin m. edit: ok, it is only +3 effective druid level, but with full BAB and NO druid levels ;) With one druid level thrown in there you could get +4, but you'd have a 20% xp penalty unless you took a couple more. (Rng4/Druid1-3/Bst+) Consequently Veluna has gnome racial substitution available. Too bad my gnome was already well on the way to wolf lord before this happened, I did go back and retrain for 1st for the better bonus against giants.