RHoD Questions in Q/A List [Archive] - Wizards Community

RHoD Questions in Q/A List [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Howie23
05-01-07, 01:03 PM There are a couple of recent questions in the Q/A list. Since we can't discuss them there:

For judges running RHoD, consider joining the RHoD judges list at: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/RPGA-RHoD/

I have a couple of Red Hand of Doom questions.
#1- According to the conversion document, xp earned during RHoD should be awarded as it is earned, rather than at the end of an adventure. During Pt 5, my 7th lvl character earned enough experience to reach 9th level. Does he reach this level straight away at the end of Pt 5?

As a quibble point, the adapted document does not say that you should award XP mid-mod. It says that it is highly recommended. It is an option that is designed to allow PCs to keep up with a power curve that advances quickly within a single part, and recognizes that the Parts are large chunks of XP.

I just recently uncovered the issue about double-leveling in Part 5 as well while prepping it for my party. There is no campaign rule that sets aside the general core rule that prohibits leveling up more than once as the result of a single adventure.

#2- If a character starts Pt 1 at 3rd level, does he get half experience for the whole of Pt 1, or does he only take half xp up to the point in the adventure where he reaches 4th?

This is answered in the same paragraph of the adaptation that says it is highly recommended to award mid-mod XP. It specifically says that the PC receives awards based upon the level that he started the mod. A newly 3rd level PC will stay at 1/2 XP for all parts. An almost 4th level PC (5900xp) is going to get 1/2 XP for more than just Part One.

#3 If a character is taking an XP/Gold multiclass penalty but will level up and remove the penalty at the very start of the next part (for arguments sake lets say another 500 xp will level him) does he take a penalty for the whole of that part or does the special rule for RHOD allowing XP and gold to be allocated as it is earned mean he only takes a penalty until he gains enough XP to remove the penalty.

PCs receive awards based upon the the level at the beginning of the mod. This is a variation of the question #2, but the answer is the same.

Comments: I suspect that the "receive XP based upon starting level" was designed to keep players from advancing out of the full XP range or even the playable range, rather that preventing them from advancing into the full XP range. The other reason would be to retain the campaign standards as much as possible; if you can advance into full XP range, then an AR will show a character that started below full XP level, but receiving more than 1/2XP in total.

David
Timlagor
05-01-07, 04:33 PM So it's possible to pass right through a level in which you would take a 20% xp&gp penalty for multiclassing without any penalty? ;)
bitznarf
05-01-07, 05:36 PM So it's possible to pass right through a level in which you would take a 20% xp&gp penalty for multiclassing without any penalty? ;)
Sounds like it.
King Kashue
05-01-07, 07:03 PM I just recently uncovered the issue about double-leveling in Part 5 as well while prepping it for my party. There is no campaign rule that sets aside the general core rule that prohibits leveling up more than once as the result of a single adventure.

Except there's absolutely no definition for the term "adventure", so that rule is a bit wobbly...

Even the DMG (p.43) says that the definition is mutable and hard to pin down. For LG we have "Adventure records", but that isn't necessarily synonymous with the PHB term.

Nothing says that each of the five parts of module are "single adventures" (unless there's something in the module itself), and if the adaptable doc says mid-module leveling is recommended (and indeed the module is built to expect that), it strongly implied that there are multiple "adventures" per module section.
Howie23
05-01-07, 07:33 PM Except there's absolutely no definition for the term "adventure", so that rule is a bit wobbly...

Even the DMG (p.43) says that the definition is mutable and hard to pin down. For LG we have "Adventure records", but that isn't necessarily synonymous with the PHB term.

Nothing says that each of the five parts of module are "single adventures" (unless there's something in the module itself), and if the adaptable doc says mid-module leveling is recommended (and indeed the module is built to expect that), it strongly implied that there are multiple "adventures" per module section.

The mid-module leveling has nothing to do any particular points in time or sequence of events. In the vein of, "can't define it, but know it when I see it," then the Parts work fairly well to deliniate an adventure. While I'm sure it is possible to demonstrate the implication that there are multiple adventures, I don't think it is necessary to understand the adaptation structure.

David
Howie23
05-01-07, 07:33 PM So it's possible to pass right through a level in which you would take a 20% xp&gp penalty for multiclassing without any penalty? ;)

How? I don't see it.
Jesse Heinig
05-01-07, 08:15 PM Crap, you mean if I level midway through part 5, then I automatically "cap out" and I can't level again at the end? So I will wind up a level behind where the mod is designed, because of the RPGA rules?

I just recently uncovered the issue about double-leveling in Part 5 as well while prepping it for my party. There is no campaign rule that sets aside the general core rule that prohibits leveling up more than once as the result of a single adventure.

David
Howie23
05-01-07, 08:25 PM Crap, you mean if I level midway through part 5, then I automatically "cap out" and I can't level again at the end? So I will wind up a level behind where the mod is designed, because of the RPGA rules?

Well, the mod is designed to take you to 12th level. The Adaptation takes you only to about 9th. The only issue comes up when someone is close to leveling going into Part 5. The potential loss in XP is no more than about 1000XP.

It isn't RPGA rules that would do anything here, rather it is the core rule about not gaining XP that would level you more than one time as part of an adventure.

David
bitznarf
05-01-07, 08:56 PM Crap, you mean if I level midway through part 5, then I automatically "cap out" and I can't level again at the end? So I will wind up a level behind where the mod is designed, because of the RPGA rules?
I do believe you would be 1xp short of your next level, yes.
Jesse Heinig
05-01-07, 10:51 PM I was not aware that was a core rule in this edition. Huh.

Well, the mod is designed to take you to 12th level. The Adaptation takes you only to about 9th. The only issue comes up when someone is close to leveling going into Part 5. The potential loss in XP is no more than about 1000XP.

It isn't RPGA rules that would do anything here, rather it is the core rule about not gaining XP that would level you more than one time as part of an adventure.

David
clannagh
05-02-07, 03:41 AM Well, the mod is designed to take you to 12th level. The Adaptation takes you only to about 9th. The only issue comes up when someone is close to leveling going into Part 5. The potential loss in XP is no more than about 1000XP.

It isn't RPGA rules that would do anything here, rather it is the core rule about not gaining XP that would level you more than one time as part of an adventure.

David

i think the potential XP loss is a lot more than that if you factor in the possibility of a PC commencing Part 1 (APL 6) as a lowish level 4

Even without death and raise dead ( at elast one death is highly likely starting RHOD as a 4) such a PC will be likely to enter the 5th part as a highish level 7 and technically would finish the 5th part just short of level 9

According to my understanding of LG rules such a PC would actually lose more like 5000-6000 XP.

I will state however, having played Red Hand, that the XP and gold returns are such that in such a situation I personally would just wear it and say "who cares i made more than enough already".
Timlagor
05-02-07, 07:31 AM The whole module is arguably one adventure too. I don't think I'd pay any attention to that obscure rule unless something reiterates it and clarifies that it is indeed a single adventure.

It seems clear to me that both the RHoD authors and the Adapters expect people to level up multiple times in the course of RHoD (not that I would care much if there was such a restriction).
chesspiece
05-02-07, 10:18 AM You mentioned that the Adapted changes are cosmetic to fit LG. Is the Circle doing module Errata? (Mostly stat block corrections.) The module gives some DM advice on how to handle a couple bad spots (where the Party gets penalized if they made mistakes – but should not automatically TPK if they made too many). Is the Circle going to give rules on how to handle these cases or is it left to the discretion of individual Judges?

We leave everything to the DM, as always and we only adapted what had to be clearly adapted.

Pieter Sleijpen
RPGA Living Greyhawk Circle Member
The Splintered Suns

IMHO, the Judge has a lot of discretionary control in this Adapted. If your Judge feels it's important to limit the PCs to 1 level bump per chapter, then so be it. I ad-libbed heavily in Chapter 1 to slow the PCs down (they were ready to start Chapter 2 on Day 6).

As things are now, Chapter 5 is worth >9,500XP. If a PC started this while 1 XP short of 8th level, they could lose >1,500xp if the Judge chose to restrict the level bumps per Chapter. There is a logical break after the first 1,200xp so they could call it a different "adventure" if they wanted to help out the PC. This seems like an unusual & trivial situation and I wouldn't expect the Circle to over-turn a Judge's ruling.
Howie23
05-02-07, 10:26 AM The whole module is arguably one adventure too. I don't think I'd pay any attention to that obscure rule unless something reiterates it and clarifies that it is indeed a single adventure.

It seems clear to me that both the RHoD authors and the Adapters expect people to level up multiple times in the course of RHoD (not that I would care much if there was such a restriction).

From http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgad/20070501a

Q. Does each part of Red Hand of Doom count as a single adventure or are all five Parts considered just one single adventure?

A. You should count each part of Red Hand of Doom as a single adventure for the purposes of rules and effects that are determined by numbers of adventures. Furthermore, each adventure record for the individual Parts of Red Hand of Doom should be counted in the same manner.
jstorrie
05-02-07, 03:53 PM You mean I get to go even further above the gold/xp curve? Great!
bitznarf
05-02-07, 04:20 PM You mean I get to go even further above the gold/xp curve? Great!
That appears to be one of the results, yes.
Howie23
05-02-07, 05:39 PM You mean I get to go even further above the gold/xp curve? Great!

Ironic, isn't it?

David

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Howie23 05-01-07, 01:03 PM	There are a couple of recent questions in the Q/A list. Since we can't discuss them there: For judges running RHoD, consider joining the RHoD judges list at: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/RPGA-RHoD/ I have a couple of Red Hand of Doom questions. #1- According to the conversion document, xp earned during RHoD should be awarded as it is earned, rather than at the end of an adventure. During Pt 5, my 7th lvl character earned enough experience to reach 9th level. Does he reach this level straight away at the end of Pt 5? As a quibble point, the adapted document does not say that you should award XP mid-mod. It says that it is highly recommended. It is an option that is designed to allow PCs to keep up with a power curve that advances quickly within a single part, and recognizes that the Parts are large chunks of XP. I just recently uncovered the issue about double-leveling in Part 5 as well while prepping it for my party. There is no campaign rule that sets aside the general core rule that prohibits leveling up more than once as the result of a single adventure. #2- If a character starts Pt 1 at 3rd level, does he get half experience for the whole of Pt 1, or does he only take half xp up to the point in the adventure where he reaches 4th? This is answered in the same paragraph of the adaptation that says it is highly recommended to award mid-mod XP. It specifically says that the PC receives awards based upon the level that he started the mod. A newly 3rd level PC will stay at 1/2 XP for all parts. An almost 4th level PC (5900xp) is going to get 1/2 XP for more than just Part One. #3 If a character is taking an XP/Gold multiclass penalty but will level up and remove the penalty at the very start of the next part (for arguments sake lets say another 500 xp will level him) does he take a penalty for the whole of that part or does the special rule for RHOD allowing XP and gold to be allocated as it is earned mean he only takes a penalty until he gains enough XP to remove the penalty. PCs receive awards based upon the the level at the beginning of the mod. This is a variation of the question #2, but the answer is the same. Comments: I suspect that the "receive XP based upon starting level" was designed to keep players from advancing out of the full XP range or even the playable range, rather that preventing them from advancing into the full XP range. The other reason would be to retain the campaign standards as much as possible; if you can advance into full XP range, then an AR will show a character that started below full XP level, but receiving more than 1/2XP in total. David
Timlagor 05-01-07, 04:33 PM	So it's possible to pass right through a level in which you would take a 20% xp&gp penalty for multiclassing without any penalty? ;)
bitznarf 05-01-07, 05:36 PM	So it's possible to pass right through a level in which you would take a 20% xp&gp penalty for multiclassing without any penalty? ;) Sounds like it.
King Kashue 05-01-07, 07:03 PM	I just recently uncovered the issue about double-leveling in Part 5 as well while prepping it for my party. There is no campaign rule that sets aside the general core rule that prohibits leveling up more than once as the result of a single adventure. Except there's absolutely no definition for the term "adventure", so that rule is a bit wobbly... Even the DMG (p.43) says that the definition is mutable and hard to pin down. For LG we have "Adventure records", but that isn't necessarily synonymous with the PHB term. Nothing says that each of the five parts of module are "single adventures" (unless there's something in the module itself), and if the adaptable doc says mid-module leveling is recommended (and indeed the module is built to expect that), it strongly implied that there are multiple "adventures" per module section.
Howie23 05-01-07, 07:33 PM	Except there's absolutely no definition for the term "adventure", so that rule is a bit wobbly... Even the DMG (p.43) says that the definition is mutable and hard to pin down. For LG we have "Adventure records", but that isn't necessarily synonymous with the PHB term. Nothing says that each of the five parts of module are "single adventures" (unless there's something in the module itself), and if the adaptable doc says mid-module leveling is recommended (and indeed the module is built to expect that), it strongly implied that there are multiple "adventures" per module section. The mid-module leveling has nothing to do any particular points in time or sequence of events. In the vein of, "can't define it, but know it when I see it," then the Parts work fairly well to deliniate an adventure. While I'm sure it is possible to demonstrate the implication that there are multiple adventures, I don't think it is necessary to understand the adaptation structure. David
Howie23 05-01-07, 07:33 PM	So it's possible to pass right through a level in which you would take a 20% xp&gp penalty for multiclassing without any penalty? ;) How? I don't see it.
Jesse Heinig 05-01-07, 08:15 PM	Crap, you mean if I level midway through part 5, then I automatically "cap out" and I can't level again at the end? So I will wind up a level behind where the mod is designed, because of the RPGA rules? I just recently uncovered the issue about double-leveling in Part 5 as well while prepping it for my party. There is no campaign rule that sets aside the general core rule that prohibits leveling up more than once as the result of a single adventure. David
Howie23 05-01-07, 08:25 PM	Crap, you mean if I level midway through part 5, then I automatically "cap out" and I can't level again at the end? So I will wind up a level behind where the mod is designed, because of the RPGA rules? Well, the mod is designed to take you to 12th level. The Adaptation takes you only to about 9th. The only issue comes up when someone is close to leveling going into Part 5. The potential loss in XP is no more than about 1000XP. It isn't RPGA rules that would do anything here, rather it is the core rule about not gaining XP that would level you more than one time as part of an adventure. David
bitznarf 05-01-07, 08:56 PM	Crap, you mean if I level midway through part 5, then I automatically "cap out" and I can't level again at the end? So I will wind up a level behind where the mod is designed, because of the RPGA rules? I do believe you would be 1xp short of your next level, yes.
Jesse Heinig 05-01-07, 10:51 PM	I was not aware that was a core rule in this edition. Huh. Well, the mod is designed to take you to 12th level. The Adaptation takes you only to about 9th. The only issue comes up when someone is close to leveling going into Part 5. The potential loss in XP is no more than about 1000XP. It isn't RPGA rules that would do anything here, rather it is the core rule about not gaining XP that would level you more than one time as part of an adventure. David
clannagh 05-02-07, 03:41 AM	Well, the mod is designed to take you to 12th level. The Adaptation takes you only to about 9th. The only issue comes up when someone is close to leveling going into Part 5. The potential loss in XP is no more than about 1000XP. It isn't RPGA rules that would do anything here, rather it is the core rule about not gaining XP that would level you more than one time as part of an adventure. David i think the potential XP loss is a lot more than that if you factor in the possibility of a PC commencing Part 1 (APL 6) as a lowish level 4 Even without death and raise dead ( at elast one death is highly likely starting RHOD as a 4) such a PC will be likely to enter the 5th part as a highish level 7 and technically would finish the 5th part just short of level 9 According to my understanding of LG rules such a PC would actually lose more like 5000-6000 XP. I will state however, having played Red Hand, that the XP and gold returns are such that in such a situation I personally would just wear it and say "who cares i made more than enough already".
Timlagor 05-02-07, 07:31 AM	The whole module is arguably one adventure too. I don't think I'd pay any attention to that obscure rule unless something reiterates it and clarifies that it is indeed a single adventure. It seems clear to me that both the RHoD authors and the Adapters expect people to level up multiple times in the course of RHoD (not that I would care much if there was such a restriction).
chesspiece 05-02-07, 10:18 AM	You mentioned that the Adapted changes are cosmetic to fit LG. Is the Circle doing module Errata? (Mostly stat block corrections.) The module gives some DM advice on how to handle a couple bad spots (where the Party gets penalized if they made mistakes – but should not automatically TPK if they made too many). Is the Circle going to give rules on how to handle these cases or is it left to the discretion of individual Judges? We leave everything to the DM, as always and we only adapted what had to be clearly adapted. Pieter Sleijpen RPGA Living Greyhawk Circle Member The Splintered Suns IMHO, the Judge has a lot of discretionary control in this Adapted. If your Judge feels it's important to limit the PCs to 1 level bump per chapter, then so be it. I ad-libbed heavily in Chapter 1 to slow the PCs down (they were ready to start Chapter 2 on Day 6). As things are now, Chapter 5 is worth >9,500XP. If a PC started this while 1 XP short of 8th level, they could lose >1,500xp if the Judge chose to restrict the level bumps per Chapter. There is a logical break after the first 1,200xp so they could call it a different "adventure" if they wanted to help out the PC. This seems like an unusual & trivial situation and I wouldn't expect the Circle to over-turn a Judge's ruling.
Howie23 05-02-07, 10:26 AM	The whole module is arguably one adventure too. I don't think I'd pay any attention to that obscure rule unless something reiterates it and clarifies that it is indeed a single adventure. It seems clear to me that both the RHoD authors and the Adapters expect people to level up multiple times in the course of RHoD (not that I would care much if there was such a restriction). From http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgad/20070501a Q. Does each part of Red Hand of Doom count as a single adventure or are all five Parts considered just one single adventure? A. You should count each part of Red Hand of Doom as a single adventure for the purposes of rules and effects that are determined by numbers of adventures. Furthermore, each adventure record for the individual Parts of Red Hand of Doom should be counted in the same manner.
jstorrie 05-02-07, 03:53 PM	You mean I get to go even further above the gold/xp curve? Great!
bitznarf 05-02-07, 04:20 PM	You mean I get to go even further above the gold/xp curve? Great! That appears to be one of the results, yes.
Howie23 05-02-07, 05:39 PM	You mean I get to go even further above the gold/xp curve? Great! Ironic, isn't it? David