Rogue Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Rogue Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
beyowulf
03-27-06, 03:30 PM I've thinking of making a swordsman-type character, but I'd like to make more use of the sneak attack ability.

I was thinking.

Str - 14
Dex - 14
Int - 13
Wis - 11
Con - 14
Cha - 10

or

Wis - 10
Cha - 11

My plan is to max out Bluff, take Improved Feint, later take a level of either Cleric or Favored Soul for Gravestrike and go to town.

Human

1.Rogue :Combat Expertise, Quickdraw
2.Rogue
3.Rogue :Improved Feint
4.Fighter :Improved Toughness
5.Fighter :Improved Toughness
6.Cleric or Favored Soul
Afterwards the rest, Rogue

If I take a level in Favored Soul, I could also take a level in Sorceror and get Golem Strike, but if I take the level in Cleric, I get two Domains(Travel probably and something else, Iam not sure what I want yet)

I'd go straight Rogue with just a dip into Cleric if I could, but the Rogue's HP hurt, and I really won't be able to go toe to toe with anything big and bad otherwise.

Another thing I'd like to know, the rules of Feint say that the opposed check consist of a Sense Motive role with the BAB added in.

1)If the opponent has no skill in Sense Motive, does he get the check?

2)Does the opponent get to add his Strength bonus to the check, or is it just his base BAB without the strength bonus?

3)If the answer is 'No' to the second question, in the modules where enemies are listed, do they typically list the Str bonus apart from the BAB, or is it combined? I don't want to cause a hassle everytime I feint.

So thoughts?
Arvagor
03-27-06, 04:05 PM 1)If the opponent has no skill in Sense Motive, does he get the check?Yes; since it is not a "TRAINED ONLY" skill, anyone can make a Sense Motive check, regardless of whether they have ranks or not.

2)Does the opponent get to add his Strength bonus to the check, or is it just his base BAB without the strength bonus?BAB is BAB, meaning no Str bonus. For example, despite that big ugly "Greatclub +8 melee (2d8+7)" on that CR 4 ogre, his BAB is still only +3 (and he has no Wisdom modifier)

3)If the answer is 'No' to the second question, in the modules where enemies are listed, do they typically list the Str bonus apart from the BAB, or is it combined? I don't want to cause a hassle everytime I feint.It's a Core feat, and a rather simple one to adjudicate at that. If the BAB for the creature is not listed directly in its stat-block (and it should be), then it should take the DM no more than 30 seconds to determine what its BAB is, and he can note it for future rounds.
ezreal2001
03-27-06, 07:58 PM I've thinking of making a swordsman-type character, but I'd like to make more use of the sneak attack ability.

I was thinking.

Str - 14
Dex - 14
Int - 13
Wis - 11
Con - 14
Cha - 10

or

Wis - 10
Cha - 11

My plan is to max out Bluff, take Improved Feint, later take a level of either Cleric or Favored Soul for Gravestrike and go to town.

Human

1.Rogue :Combat Expertise, Quickdraw
2.Rogue
3.Rogue :Improved Feint
4.Fighter :Improved Toughness
5.Fighter :Improved Toughness
6.Cleric or Favored Soul
Afterwards the rest, Rogue

If I take a level in Favored Soul, I could also take a level in Sorceror and get Golem Strike, but if I take the level in Cleric, I get two Domains(Travel probably and something else, Iam not sure what I want yet)

I'd go straight Rogue with just a dip into Cleric if I could, but the Rogue's HP hurt, and I really won't be able to go toe to toe with anything big and bad otherwise.

So thoughts?

thoughts:

You're absolutely right about Rogue hit points, of course the dif is only 2/level so if you can crank up you Con that dif goes away ie Con 18 Rogue is 8hp/level Con 18 Fighter is 10hp/level, Con 20 Rogue is 9hp/level Con 20 fighter is 11hp/level.

Something else to consider is that Elusive Target can take the edge of a SINGLE power attaking opponent

If you're only doing a single level dip into Cleric for Grave strike don't it'll hurt your BAB and from APL 8 onwards you should be able to get the party Cleric to imbue you with it.

Of course you're probably interested in the Fort bonus and you demonstrated an interest in Fients, well consider this: the updated version of Insightfull Strike + Improved Fient grants a Fient as a free action with the applicable +10 bonus, a single level dip into a Specialist Wizard (Divination) will grant three of these per day, your familiar will give you Alertness, if you take a rat you'll also get +2 bonus to the PC's fort save. Pearls of Power help alot here. Another spell you'll be interested in is Critical Strike. Alternatively you could take a level of Sorc but you'll need a Cloak of Charisma.

All of things considered this slipery sort could be a good build for you

1.Rogue 1:Dodge, Improved Feint
2.Rogue 2:
3.Fighter 1:Moblity, Combat Expertise
4.Rogue 3:
5.Fighter 2:Spring Attack
6.Rogue 4: Quickdraw(+ Slieght of Hand 5 leads to Flick of the Wrist) or Imp Init or Combat Refs (you'll want a reach weapon)
7.Diviner 1: (Spell Insightfull Strike, Critical Strike)
8 Rogue Onwards

Consider Elusive Target at 12, alternatively Combat Refs

Skills: Bluff, Hide in Shadows, Move Silently, Tumble

Tactics:
Be Mobil and Oppertunistic,
Pick off weaker opponents,
Work flanked opponents,
Avoid using full attacks - from 5 level onwards use spring attacks, from 7 level onwards add insightfull fients when you can't set up flanks
Consider using a reach weapon like a glave to keep you PC further from harm.

John
Arvagor
03-27-06, 09:33 PM 1.Rogue 1: Dodge, Improved Feint
2.Rogue 2:
3.Fighter 1:Moblity, Combat Expertise
...Improved Feint has a pre-req of Combat Expertise, so at a minimum, you would need to swap those two...
beyowulf
03-27-06, 09:43 PM If you're only doing a single level dip into Cleric for Grave strike don't it'll hurt your BAB and from APL 8 onwards you should be able to get the party Cleric to imbue you with it.

The problem is, Gravestrike, and likewise Golemstrike, only last a single round, and have a range of personal. So I have to cast it, or it doesn't get cast. Can't cast from scroll, as thats a standard action, and casting it is a swift action.

Of course you're probably interested in the Fort bonus and you demonstrated an interest in Fients, well consider this: the updated version of Insightfull Strike + Improved Fient grants a Fient as a free action with the applicable +10 bonus, a single level dip into a Specialist Wizard (Divination) will grant three of these per day, your familiar will give you Alertness, if you take a rat you'll also get +2 bonus to the PC's fort save. Pearls of Power help alot here. Another spell you'll be interested in is Critical Strike. Alternatively you could take a level of Sorc but you'll need a Cloak of Charisma.

Sounds interesting. What book is Insightful Strike in?

All of things considered this slipery sort could be a good build for you

1.Rogue 1:Dodge, Improved Feint
2.Rogue 2:
3.Fighter 1:Moblity, Combat Expertise
4.Rogue 3:
5.Fighter 2:Spring Attack
6.Rogue 4: Quickdraw(+ Slieght of Hand 5 leads to Flick of the Wrist) or Imp Init or Combat Refs (you'll want a reach weapon)
7.Diviner 1: (Spell Insightfull Strike, Critical Strike)
8 Rogue Onwards

I'd have to switch around Improved Feint and Combat Expertise since Combat Expertise is a prerequisite for Improved Feint, otherwise it looks good. Whats "Flick of the Wrist", btw. I think I still want to add in a level of cleric maybe at 8, though, and then the rest as Rogue.

Consider Elusive Target at 12, alternatively Combat Refs

Skills: Bluff, Hide in Shadows, Move Silently, Tumble

Tactics:
Be Mobil and Oppertunistic,
Pick off weaker opponents,
Work flanked opponents,
Avoid using full attacks - from 5 level onwards use spring attacks, from 7 level onwards add insightfull fients when you can't set up flanks
Consider using a reach weapon like a glave to keep you PC further from harm.

John

Appreciate the help, and the advice.
Arvagor
03-27-06, 10:22 PM Sounds interesting. What book is Insightful Strike in?I believe he's referring to insightful feint, a swift spell (Assassin 1, Sor/Wiz 1) in Spell Compendium
welbybumpus
03-28-06, 05:09 PM I like the idea of a level of cleric over a level of sorcerer--you can get your own grave strike, as well as low-level utility spells like protection from evil, endure elements and resurgence. Plus, you get good fortitude and will saves (although a sorcerer with rat familiar admittedly gets the same), which you'll be hurting for. I'd go with the Luck and Travel domains, as the reroll can be a lifesaver, and longstrider (the Travel domain spell) is a good buff spell, even though it only lasts an hour. My fighter/rogue has a level of cleric, for just these reasons.

Although my cleric regularly imbues the party rogue with a pair of grave strikes and a divine insight (via imbue with spell ability), it's not something I would have done at 8th or even 10th level, as my 4th level spell slots were too valuable then--now that I'm 14th level I've got plenty of freedom of movement, death wards, and greater magic weapons to spare, so doling out the imbue with spell ability hurts a little less.

I noticed that your build has levels of fighter later on; I'd take a level of fighter (or some class with higher skill points, like a barbarian or ranger) at first level, for the hit points.

You'll want to pick up the feat Staggering Strike as soon as you can, as well.

Thanks,

Ron
welbybumpus
03-28-06, 05:10 PM One other thought--with a single level of cleric, you won't be turning undead. So be sure to pick up a Divine feat to take advantage of your turn attempts, such as Divine Vigor.

Ron
Arvagor
03-28-06, 05:46 PM I noticed that your build has levels of fighter later on; I'd take a level of fighter (or some class with higher skill points, like a barbarian or ranger) at first level, for the hit points.Hmm, bad idea, IMO. If you're going to have Rogue levels in a build, conventional wisdom says make your 1st level a Rog1 -- maximize the # of skill points at 1st level, 'cause you're never gonna get that many later on.
ezreal2001
03-28-06, 06:08 PM Hmm, bad idea, IMO. If you're going to have Rogue levels in a build, conventional wisdom says make your 1st level a Rog1 -- maximize the # of skill points at 1st level, 'cause you're never gonna get that many later on.

Can't agree more.

For a skill monkey, 4 hit points is very poor trade for 24 skill points and this is exacibated by the fact that Fighter's don't have Bluff, Tumble etc in their skill list.
HypnoticMonk
03-28-06, 07:02 PM 2 small suggestions(do with them as you will)

1-Instead of STR and DEX being 14, you might consider STR 12 and DEX 15. This works especially nice for you when you add that +1 to your DEX at 4th level.

2-If you do that, you might also consider taking a one level dip in Swashbuckler for that free Weapon Finesse feat.
beyowulf
03-29-06, 08:31 AM One other thought--with a single level of cleric, you won't be turning undead. So be sure to pick up a Divine feat to take advantage of your turn attempts, such as Divine Vigor.

Ron

I was actually thinking of Sacred Boost. But what does Divine Vigor do?
welbybumpus
03-29-06, 11:46 AM Hmm, bad idea, IMO. If you're going to have Rogue levels in a build, conventional wisdom says make your 1st level a Rog1 -- maximize the # of skill points at 1st level, 'cause you're never gonna get that many later on.

Can we compromise, then, but suggesting a starting level in Swashbuckler? :)

Ron
welbybumpus
03-29-06, 11:48 AM I was actually thinking of Sacred Boost. But what does Divine Vigor do?

Working from memory here: It's a standard action to activate and lasts one minute per Charisma bonus. In that time, you get +10 feet to movement and 2 temporary hit points per character level.

Ron
beyowulf
03-29-06, 01:16 PM I'd go with the Luck and Travel domains, as the reroll can be a lifesaver, and longstrider (the Travel domain spell) is a good buff spell, even though it only lasts an hour. My fighter/rogue has a level of cleric, for just these reasons.

Fharlanghn probably fits the bill in this case. Anyone know how to pronounce Fharlanghn, BTW?

1-Instead of STR and DEX being 14, you might consider STR 12 and DEX 15. This works especially nice for you when you add that +1 to your DEX at 4th level.

I kinda imagine him wielding a longsword in both hands, which gives him a 1.5X
damage. If his STR is 12, I only add +1 to damage. If his Str is 14, I add +3 to damage. Perhaps I am quibbling, but if I run into something with damage resistance early on, this might help.
Arvagor
03-29-06, 01:48 PM Fharlanghn probably fits the bill in this case. Anyone know how to pronounce Fharlanghn, BTW?Just like it's spelled ;)

But, per the Dieties doc: far-LAHNG-un
boogahwoof
03-29-06, 03:51 PM im not a clearic or favored soul kinda guy but i thought that favored sould dont get access to domains or thier spells thats for clerics only right
beyowulf
03-29-06, 04:27 PM im not a clearic or favored soul kinda guy but i thought that favored sould dont get access to domains or thier spells thats for clerics only right

Near as I can tell, Favored Soul doesn't get access to Domains. The reason why I said Favored Soul or Cleric was that if I take Favored Soul, I could also take a level of Sorceror since AFAIK, they both are Charisma based.
beyowulf
04-10-06, 10:14 PM Just read the thread on Marshalls. Does anyone think replacing the level of Wizard with Marshall is a good idea?

So that.

1.Rogue 1 Dodge, Combat Expertise
2.Rogue 2:
3.Fighter 1:Moblity, Improved Feint
4.Rogue 3:
5.Fighter 2:Spring Attack
6.Rogue 4: Quickdraw(+ Slieght of Hand 5 leads to Flick of the Wrist) or Imp Init or Combat Refs (you'll want a reach weapon)
7.Marshall
8 Cleric
9. Rogue onwards

Though what I'd need to know is what affect Charisma has on the Marshall's abilities, since mine probably won't be very high. I could possibly pickup a Cloak of Charisma, but whats the role Charisma plays?

Secondly, I was thinking either Aura of Strength or Aura of Constitution. To make up for the low HP and somewhat low BAB of this build. Or I instead of the rest being Rogue, I could take another 3 levels of Marshall to get "Grant Move Action" Then I could Sprint Attack, Full Attack, then move again.
redgamer
04-10-06, 10:34 PM Charisma is as important to a marshal as wisdom is to a cleric. It determines the strength of most auras.
beyowulf
04-10-06, 10:46 PM Charisma is as important to a marshal as wisdom is to a cleric. It determines the strength of most auras.

So with a Cloak of Charisma +4, an Aura of Strength would only provide a +2 bonus, for this particular build, correct?

Wonder if it would be worth it at that level.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
beyowulf 03-27-06, 03:30 PM	I've thinking of making a swordsman-type character, but I'd like to make more use of the sneak attack ability. I was thinking. Str - 14 Dex - 14 Int - 13 Wis - 11 Con - 14 Cha - 10 or Wis - 10 Cha - 11 My plan is to max out Bluff, take Improved Feint, later take a level of either Cleric or Favored Soul for Gravestrike and go to town. Human 1.Rogue :Combat Expertise, Quickdraw 2.Rogue 3.Rogue :Improved Feint 4.Fighter :Improved Toughness 5.Fighter :Improved Toughness 6.Cleric or Favored Soul Afterwards the rest, Rogue If I take a level in Favored Soul, I could also take a level in Sorceror and get Golem Strike, but if I take the level in Cleric, I get two Domains(Travel probably and something else, Iam not sure what I want yet) I'd go straight Rogue with just a dip into Cleric if I could, but the Rogue's HP hurt, and I really won't be able to go toe to toe with anything big and bad otherwise. Another thing I'd like to know, the rules of Feint say that the opposed check consist of a Sense Motive role with the BAB added in. 1)If the opponent has no skill in Sense Motive, does he get the check? 2)Does the opponent get to add his Strength bonus to the check, or is it just his base BAB without the strength bonus? 3)If the answer is 'No' to the second question, in the modules where enemies are listed, do they typically list the Str bonus apart from the BAB, or is it combined? I don't want to cause a hassle everytime I feint. So thoughts?
Arvagor 03-27-06, 04:05 PM	1)If the opponent has no skill in Sense Motive, does he get the check?Yes; since it is not a "TRAINED ONLY" skill, anyone can make a Sense Motive check, regardless of whether they have ranks or not. 2)Does the opponent get to add his Strength bonus to the check, or is it just his base BAB without the strength bonus?BAB is BAB, meaning no Str bonus. For example, despite that big ugly "Greatclub +8 melee (2d8+7)" on that CR 4 ogre, his BAB is still only +3 (and he has no Wisdom modifier) 3)If the answer is 'No' to the second question, in the modules where enemies are listed, do they typically list the Str bonus apart from the BAB, or is it combined? I don't want to cause a hassle everytime I feint.It's a Core feat, and a rather simple one to adjudicate at that. If the BAB for the creature is not listed directly in its stat-block (and it should be), then it should take the DM no more than 30 seconds to determine what its BAB is, and he can note it for future rounds.
ezreal2001 03-27-06, 07:58 PM	I've thinking of making a swordsman-type character, but I'd like to make more use of the sneak attack ability. I was thinking. Str - 14 Dex - 14 Int - 13 Wis - 11 Con - 14 Cha - 10 or Wis - 10 Cha - 11 My plan is to max out Bluff, take Improved Feint, later take a level of either Cleric or Favored Soul for Gravestrike and go to town. Human 1.Rogue :Combat Expertise, Quickdraw 2.Rogue 3.Rogue :Improved Feint 4.Fighter :Improved Toughness 5.Fighter :Improved Toughness 6.Cleric or Favored Soul Afterwards the rest, Rogue If I take a level in Favored Soul, I could also take a level in Sorceror and get Golem Strike, but if I take the level in Cleric, I get two Domains(Travel probably and something else, Iam not sure what I want yet) I'd go straight Rogue with just a dip into Cleric if I could, but the Rogue's HP hurt, and I really won't be able to go toe to toe with anything big and bad otherwise. So thoughts? thoughts: You're absolutely right about Rogue hit points, of course the dif is only 2/level so if you can crank up you Con that dif goes away ie Con 18 Rogue is 8hp/level Con 18 Fighter is 10hp/level, Con 20 Rogue is 9hp/level Con 20 fighter is 11hp/level. Something else to consider is that Elusive Target can take the edge of a SINGLE power attaking opponent If you're only doing a single level dip into Cleric for Grave strike don't it'll hurt your BAB and from APL 8 onwards you should be able to get the party Cleric to imbue you with it. Of course you're probably interested in the Fort bonus and you demonstrated an interest in Fients, well consider this: the updated version of Insightfull Strike + Improved Fient grants a Fient as a free action with the applicable +10 bonus, a single level dip into a Specialist Wizard (Divination) will grant three of these per day, your familiar will give you Alertness, if you take a rat you'll also get +2 bonus to the PC's fort save. Pearls of Power help alot here. Another spell you'll be interested in is Critical Strike. Alternatively you could take a level of Sorc but you'll need a Cloak of Charisma. All of things considered this slipery sort could be a good build for you 1.Rogue 1:Dodge, Improved Feint 2.Rogue 2: 3.Fighter 1:Moblity, Combat Expertise 4.Rogue 3: 5.Fighter 2:Spring Attack 6.Rogue 4: Quickdraw(+ Slieght of Hand 5 leads to Flick of the Wrist) or Imp Init or Combat Refs (you'll want a reach weapon) 7.Diviner 1: (Spell Insightfull Strike, Critical Strike) 8 Rogue Onwards Consider Elusive Target at 12, alternatively Combat Refs Skills: Bluff, Hide in Shadows, Move Silently, Tumble Tactics: Be Mobil and Oppertunistic, Pick off weaker opponents, Work flanked opponents, Avoid using full attacks - from 5 level onwards use spring attacks, from 7 level onwards add insightfull fients when you can't set up flanks Consider using a reach weapon like a glave to keep you PC further from harm. John
Arvagor 03-27-06, 09:33 PM	1.Rogue 1: Dodge, Improved Feint 2.Rogue 2: 3.Fighter 1:Moblity, Combat Expertise ...Improved Feint has a pre-req of Combat Expertise, so at a minimum, you would need to swap those two...
beyowulf 03-27-06, 09:43 PM	If you're only doing a single level dip into Cleric for Grave strike don't it'll hurt your BAB and from APL 8 onwards you should be able to get the party Cleric to imbue you with it. The problem is, Gravestrike, and likewise Golemstrike, only last a single round, and have a range of personal. So I have to cast it, or it doesn't get cast. Can't cast from scroll, as thats a standard action, and casting it is a swift action. Of course you're probably interested in the Fort bonus and you demonstrated an interest in Fients, well consider this: the updated version of Insightfull Strike + Improved Fient grants a Fient as a free action with the applicable +10 bonus, a single level dip into a Specialist Wizard (Divination) will grant three of these per day, your familiar will give you Alertness, if you take a rat you'll also get +2 bonus to the PC's fort save. Pearls of Power help alot here. Another spell you'll be interested in is Critical Strike. Alternatively you could take a level of Sorc but you'll need a Cloak of Charisma. Sounds interesting. What book is Insightful Strike in? All of things considered this slipery sort could be a good build for you 1.Rogue 1:Dodge, Improved Feint 2.Rogue 2: 3.Fighter 1:Moblity, Combat Expertise 4.Rogue 3: 5.Fighter 2:Spring Attack 6.Rogue 4: Quickdraw(+ Slieght of Hand 5 leads to Flick of the Wrist) or Imp Init or Combat Refs (you'll want a reach weapon) 7.Diviner 1: (Spell Insightfull Strike, Critical Strike) 8 Rogue Onwards I'd have to switch around Improved Feint and Combat Expertise since Combat Expertise is a prerequisite for Improved Feint, otherwise it looks good. Whats "Flick of the Wrist", btw. I think I still want to add in a level of cleric maybe at 8, though, and then the rest as Rogue. Consider Elusive Target at 12, alternatively Combat Refs Skills: Bluff, Hide in Shadows, Move Silently, Tumble Tactics: Be Mobil and Oppertunistic, Pick off weaker opponents, Work flanked opponents, Avoid using full attacks - from 5 level onwards use spring attacks, from 7 level onwards add insightfull fients when you can't set up flanks Consider using a reach weapon like a glave to keep you PC further from harm. John Appreciate the help, and the advice.
Arvagor 03-27-06, 10:22 PM	Sounds interesting. What book is Insightful Strike in?I believe he's referring to insightful feint, a swift spell (Assassin 1, Sor/Wiz 1) in Spell Compendium
welbybumpus 03-28-06, 05:09 PM	I like the idea of a level of cleric over a level of sorcerer--you can get your own grave strike, as well as low-level utility spells like protection from evil, endure elements and resurgence. Plus, you get good fortitude and will saves (although a sorcerer with rat familiar admittedly gets the same), which you'll be hurting for. I'd go with the Luck and Travel domains, as the reroll can be a lifesaver, and longstrider (the Travel domain spell) is a good buff spell, even though it only lasts an hour. My fighter/rogue has a level of cleric, for just these reasons. Although my cleric regularly imbues the party rogue with a pair of grave strikes and a divine insight (via imbue with spell ability), it's not something I would have done at 8th or even 10th level, as my 4th level spell slots were too valuable then--now that I'm 14th level I've got plenty of freedom of movement, death wards, and greater magic weapons to spare, so doling out the imbue with spell ability hurts a little less. I noticed that your build has levels of fighter later on; I'd take a level of fighter (or some class with higher skill points, like a barbarian or ranger) at first level, for the hit points. You'll want to pick up the feat Staggering Strike as soon as you can, as well. Thanks, Ron
welbybumpus 03-28-06, 05:10 PM	One other thought--with a single level of cleric, you won't be turning undead. So be sure to pick up a Divine feat to take advantage of your turn attempts, such as Divine Vigor. Ron
Arvagor 03-28-06, 05:46 PM	I noticed that your build has levels of fighter later on; I'd take a level of fighter (or some class with higher skill points, like a barbarian or ranger) at first level, for the hit points.Hmm, bad idea, IMO. If you're going to have Rogue levels in a build, conventional wisdom says make your 1st level a Rog1 -- maximize the # of skill points at 1st level, 'cause you're never gonna get that many later on.
ezreal2001 03-28-06, 06:08 PM	Hmm, bad idea, IMO. If you're going to have Rogue levels in a build, conventional wisdom says make your 1st level a Rog1 -- maximize the # of skill points at 1st level, 'cause you're never gonna get that many later on. Can't agree more. For a skill monkey, 4 hit points is very poor trade for 24 skill points and this is exacibated by the fact that Fighter's don't have Bluff, Tumble etc in their skill list.
HypnoticMonk 03-28-06, 07:02 PM	2 small suggestions(do with them as you will) 1-Instead of STR and DEX being 14, you might consider STR 12 and DEX 15. This works especially nice for you when you add that +1 to your DEX at 4th level. 2-If you do that, you might also consider taking a one level dip in Swashbuckler for that free Weapon Finesse feat.
beyowulf 03-29-06, 08:31 AM	One other thought--with a single level of cleric, you won't be turning undead. So be sure to pick up a Divine feat to take advantage of your turn attempts, such as Divine Vigor. Ron I was actually thinking of Sacred Boost. But what does Divine Vigor do?
welbybumpus 03-29-06, 11:46 AM	Hmm, bad idea, IMO. If you're going to have Rogue levels in a build, conventional wisdom says make your 1st level a Rog1 -- maximize the # of skill points at 1st level, 'cause you're never gonna get that many later on. Can we compromise, then, but suggesting a starting level in Swashbuckler? :) Ron
welbybumpus 03-29-06, 11:48 AM	I was actually thinking of Sacred Boost. But what does Divine Vigor do? Working from memory here: It's a standard action to activate and lasts one minute per Charisma bonus. In that time, you get +10 feet to movement and 2 temporary hit points per character level. Ron
beyowulf 03-29-06, 01:16 PM	I'd go with the Luck and Travel domains, as the reroll can be a lifesaver, and longstrider (the Travel domain spell) is a good buff spell, even though it only lasts an hour. My fighter/rogue has a level of cleric, for just these reasons. Fharlanghn probably fits the bill in this case. Anyone know how to pronounce Fharlanghn, BTW? 1-Instead of STR and DEX being 14, you might consider STR 12 and DEX 15. This works especially nice for you when you add that +1 to your DEX at 4th level. I kinda imagine him wielding a longsword in both hands, which gives him a 1.5X damage. If his STR is 12, I only add +1 to damage. If his Str is 14, I add +3 to damage. Perhaps I am quibbling, but if I run into something with damage resistance early on, this might help.
Arvagor 03-29-06, 01:48 PM	Fharlanghn probably fits the bill in this case. Anyone know how to pronounce Fharlanghn, BTW?Just like it's spelled ;) But, per the Dieties doc: far-LAHNG-un
boogahwoof 03-29-06, 03:51 PM	im not a clearic or favored soul kinda guy but i thought that favored sould dont get access to domains or thier spells thats for clerics only right
beyowulf 03-29-06, 04:27 PM	im not a clearic or favored soul kinda guy but i thought that favored sould dont get access to domains or thier spells thats for clerics only right Near as I can tell, Favored Soul doesn't get access to Domains. The reason why I said Favored Soul or Cleric was that if I take Favored Soul, I could also take a level of Sorceror since AFAIK, they both are Charisma based.
beyowulf 04-10-06, 10:14 PM	Just read the thread on Marshalls. Does anyone think replacing the level of Wizard with Marshall is a good idea? So that. 1.Rogue 1 Dodge, Combat Expertise 2.Rogue 2: 3.Fighter 1:Moblity, Improved Feint 4.Rogue 3: 5.Fighter 2:Spring Attack 6.Rogue 4: Quickdraw(+ Slieght of Hand 5 leads to Flick of the Wrist) or Imp Init or Combat Refs (you'll want a reach weapon) 7.Marshall 8 Cleric 9. Rogue onwards Though what I'd need to know is what affect Charisma has on the Marshall's abilities, since mine probably won't be very high. I could possibly pickup a Cloak of Charisma, but whats the role Charisma plays? Secondly, I was thinking either Aura of Strength or Aura of Constitution. To make up for the low HP and somewhat low BAB of this build. Or I instead of the rest being Rogue, I could take another 3 levels of Marshall to get "Grant Move Action" Then I could Sprint Attack, Full Attack, then move again.
redgamer 04-10-06, 10:34 PM	Charisma is as important to a marshal as wisdom is to a cleric. It determines the strength of most auras.
beyowulf 04-10-06, 10:46 PM	Charisma is as important to a marshal as wisdom is to a cleric. It determines the strength of most auras. So with a Cloak of Charisma +4, an Aura of Strength would only provide a +2 bonus, for this particular build, correct? Wonder if it would be worth it at that level.