Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gaelforcwynd 11-24-06, 08:14 AM	Hi I'm new to RPGA. I'm not even a member yet. I need to know what basic rules to follow to build a few 1st level characters that can be used in LG campaigns. I'd even like to stick to the 'corest' minimal options so that ideally these characters can be started in any campaign. I'm looking at LG now because it seems to be the most popular. I need to know what type of points buy system, whether average Hitpoints can be used or have to be rolled, which Domains may be selected from, whether or not Clerics may select 2 Domains instead of a Deity. How Clerics with no Deity choose their weapon and which Skills and Feats are allowed. I'm building a Cleric first. Any help on this much appreciated.
Lupo 11-24-06, 09:11 AM	Hi I'm new to RPGA. I'm not even a member yet. I need to know what basic rules to follow to build a few 1st level characters that can be used in LG campaigns. I'd even like to stick to the 'corest' minimal options so that ideally these characters can be started in any campaign. I'm looking at LG now because it seems to be the most popular. I need to know what type of points buy system, whether average Hitpoints can be used or have to be rolled, which Domains may be selected from, whether or not Clerics may select 2 Domains instead of a Deity. How Clerics with no Deity choose their weapon and which Skills and Feats are allowed. I'm building a Cleric first. Any help on this much appreciated. look here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/welcome in the little box to the right you find: Living Greyhawk Campaign Standards 596 CY and for a cleric Living Greyhawk Deities v.2.0 basically you get a 28 point buy, max hp for first level, and a "limited" selction of deities :D. for creation and up to level three, only PHB stuff is allowed, unless a specific deity's domain or a allowed base class feature. as a cleric, paladin, pious templar or favoured soul you MUST follow a specific deity. ciao martin m.
pedr 11-24-06, 09:18 AM	Note that the other RPGA run D&D campaigns (predominantly Xen'drik Explorations) uses 25 point buy. Some of the RPGA-supported campaigns (such as Living Arcanis) use 32 point buy, I believe. Each one has very different rules about what's possible at character creation, so you're best off checking the particular rules. Lupo's got the basics of LG creation sorted though! Other sources include the website of my local group which has a primer on LG creation: http://tassek.anang.com/creation.html - which might be a little bit slanted towards Onnwal, but is pretty generic, IIRC.
Gaelforcwynd 11-24-06, 10:22 AM	I live in Australia so I don't know whether any RPGA events are held here. I found and printed the LGCS just after I posted this thread, so thanks for your help anyway. I'll have to check out that other campaign as I like the idea of core standard systems. I'm a bit disappointed Clerics must follow a Deity in LG. I looked at the LG Deities document but it seems incomplete. It's very big and contains a lot of Deities and there's a lot of blank space in between the pages. Does anyone know if that's the finished and updated version?
Puggle Halfwine 11-24-06, 08:54 PM	Oh, there are many many RPGA events held in Australia. Primarily, these occur in: - Canberra (Canberra Games Days, Canberra Day Madness, Phenomenon Convention, Retirement Party <which is currently running>) - Sydney (Blacktown Games Days, Winterfest, Summerfest, Spring Revel Down Under <massive, massive convention>, plus many others...) - Melbourne (don't know any specifics, but there are heaps of them), Cairns (Reefcon, occasionally Spring Revel Down Under, many others...) Surely one of these is close? Pretty much the only neglected areas are Darwin (where I am currently), Adelaide and Perth. Everywhere else you should be able to find SOMETHING.
wooti 11-25-06, 08:07 AM	If you are in QLD or WA (and maybe SA) the wed site for LG is here: http://perrenland.rpga-apac.com/main.php This site also has quite alot of infomation on other states they may or may not be up to date.
clik_ml 11-25-06, 09:16 AM	as a cleric, paladin, pious templar or favoured soul you MUST follow a specific deity. Actually, if you re-read that, paladins are not required to follow a specific deity. The references in the Deities document are for paladins who have *chosen* to follow a specific deity (often for the purpose of joining a deity specific prestige class like Pious Templar), along with all the restrictions that that entails. I looked at the LG Deities document but it seems incomplete. It's very big and contains a lot of Deities and there's a lot of blank space in between the pages. Does anyone know if that's the finished and updated version? The LG Deitiesv2.0 (downloadable from the link that Martin gave to the main LG-RPGA homepage) is the most recent version and it shouldn't have any big blank spaces though many deities listed have no description, alas). If you got the 2.0 version then perhaps try checking to see if you can download a more recent free version of adobe acrobat or somesuch in order to view it. I just use the "preview" application on my macintosh, but that's me. Hope all this helps ya out. - Erik
Gaelforcwynd 11-25-06, 12:09 PM	I read through the LGCS last night. One thing I'm still not sure about is what type of sub-race I get to be by being a Human from Perrenland. Also, does this sub-race affect which Class, Deities, Domains, Skills or Feats I can choose? A few other questions I have regarding Clerics and characters in general. I want to create a Human Cleric with access to the Magic and Travel domains. The only two Deities which grant a Human these Domains are Daoud and Lirr. Can a Human Cleric from Perrenland choose these Deities? Can characters in Living Greyhawk be True Neutral? Does the Deity's Alignment need to be Neutral on both axis, or just one for a Cleric to be True Neutral? Must a Living Greyhawk Cleric use the favoured weapon of their Deity or can they choose any weapon a Cleric normally has access to?
copper_wyrmling 11-25-06, 01:25 PM	I read through the LGCS last night. One thing I'm still not sure about is what type of sub-race I get to be by being a Human from Perrenland. Also, does this sub-race affect which Class, Deities, Domains, Skills or Feats I can choose? A few other questions I have regarding Clerics and characters in general. I want to create a Human Cleric with access to the Magic and Travel domains. The only two Deities which grant a Human these Domains are Daoud and Lirr. Can a Human Cleric from Perrenland choose these Deities? Can characters in Living Greyhawk be True Neutral? Does the Deity's Alignment need to be Neutral on both axis, or just one for a Cleric to be True Neutral? Must a Living Greyhawk Cleric use the favoured weapon of their Deity or can they choose any weapon a Cleric normally has access to? Most humans in Perrenland are Flan, Oeridian or a Flan/Oeridian mix, but you can play any human subrace. Your subrace affects what regional feats you can choose (there's a list in the LGCS, they come from the Dragon magazines), but you won't really lose anything if you ignore the regional feats for your first character (they're not free feats, just alternate feat options). Your subrace does not affect your access to skills or any other feats / prestige classes that I'm aware of, and it doesn't affect what deities and domain you can choose. Yes, a human cleric from Perrenland can worship Lirr or Daoud. They're not commonly worshipped in Perrenland, but with the Travel domain, it should be fairly easy to explain why your PC is a long way from home (or maybe he/she's a local who was introduced to the faith by a wandering priest). There are some disadvantages to worshipping an uncommon deity - you won't be able to join the best cleric meta-orgs in your region and you'll find it hard to get access to deity-specific prestige classes (like church inquisitor and contemplative). It's certainly not crippling, though (my main PC was the only cleric of Joramy in Perrenland for about 12 of her 14 levels), so I'd say go for it :) Yes, characters in Living Greyhawk can be True Neutral. However, a cleric cannot be True Neutral unless their deity is also True Neutral. Neutral on one axis is not sufficient. A Living Greyhawk cleric doesn't need to use the favored weapon of their deity, but many do as a sign of devotion. Kelanen is the only deity I know of who cuts off spellcasting for using the wrong weapons.
Gaelforcwynd 11-25-06, 02:50 PM	Most humans in Perrenland are Flan, Oeridian or a Flan/Oeridian mix, but you can play any human subrace. Your subrace affects what regional feats you can choose (there's a list in the LGCS, they come from the Dragon magazines), but you won't really lose anything if you ignore the regional feats for your first character (they're not free feats, just alternate feat options). Your subrace does not affect your access to skills or any other feats / prestige classes that I'm aware of, and it doesn't affect what deities and domain you can choose. Yes, a human cleric from Perrenland can worship Lirr or Daoud. They're not commonly worshipped in Perrenland, but with the Travel domain, it should be fairly easy to explain why your PC is a long way from home (or maybe he/she's a local who was introduced to the faith by a wandering priest). There are some disadvantages to worshipping an uncommon deity - you won't be able to join the best cleric meta-orgs in your region and you'll find it hard to get access to deity-specific prestige classes (like church inquisitor and contemplative). It's certainly not crippling, though (my main PC was the only cleric of Joramy in Perrenland for about 12 of her 14 levels), so I'd say go for it :) Yes, characters in Living Greyhawk can be True Neutral. However, a cleric cannot be True Neutral unless their deity is also True Neutral. Neutral on one axis is not sufficient. A Living Greyhawk cleric doesn't need to use the favored weapon of their deity, but many do as a sign of devotion. Kelanen is the only deity I know of who cuts off spellcasting for using the wrong weapons. Thanks for that information. Now I can set about filling out my character sheet. What do you think of this setup. STR: 10 (0) DEX: 10 (0) CON: 14 (+2) INT: 14 (+2) WIS: 16 (+3) CHA: 10 (0) By choosing 16 WIS I can keep adding to it each time I get an Ability increase through LVL up. This way I can keep benefiting from the bonus spell until CL 7, when I gain my first 4th LVL spells. I will then have to wait until CL 8, when I get my next Ability increase in order to recieve a bonus 4th LVL spell. Only after this point will my WIS score begin to lag behind possible access to bonus spells. I would probably keep raising WIS until it is at least 18. I understand CL 16 is the limit for LG so I'll have to see how many overall points I will get to spend in order to properly plan this Cleric's development. I believe that you start with maximum HP and gain half the HD +1 in addition to the CON modifier per LVL increase. Having 14 CON will give me 10 starting HP and 7 HP per LVL up, which will be good for combat. High CON will also help with DC's on Skills which I am looking at buying ranks in, such as Concentration. Having 14 INT will also help me with DC's using the Spellcraft Skill from the Magic Domain. This will grant me 20 initial Skill Ranks and 5 per LVL thereafter. This will be good for combat if I decide to put them all in Concentration and Spellcraft. Mainly though, having 14 INT allows me to cast up to 3rd LVL Wizard Spells from scrolls. Perhaps I should just leave INT at 13, but I can't see much better use for the extra point other than giving me a +2 modifier to INT. I'm not too worried about having average STR, DEX and CHA because I will be able to magically enhance them using prepared potions and scrolls if necessary. The Cleric's main role is support anyway. I'll probably focus my Skill Ranks in Concentration and Spellcraft. I'm also thinking of buying 5 Ranks in Knowledge (Religion) to augment my turning ability. I haven't thought much about Feats yet, but I will almost certainly take Item Creation Feats and maybe Combat Casting. I only have the Core Rules books for reference, so I will have to work with what's there for now. I'll research more Feats if and when I reach CL 3. The main reason I chose high INT and the Magic and Travel Domains are their usefulness in spellcasting and combat. I can access a lot of good Wizard spells though the Magic Domain and be very mobile and dangerous on the battlefield with the Travel Domain. I can also use Wands and Staves. Give me some advice and feedback on what you think of the potential of this setup.
kenobi65 11-25-06, 08:06 PM	eI'm not too worried about having average STR, DEX and CHA because I will be able to magically enhance them using prepared potions and scrolls if necessary. The Cleric's main role is support anyway. I'll probably focus my Skill Ranks in Concentration and Spellcraft. I'm also thinking of buying 5 Ranks in Knowledge (Religion) to augment my turning ability. The only issue with that plan is that you can't always count on being able to have those buffs up and running when you need them (and, as 2nd level spells, they aren't cheap). Dex is probably not a killer; I've seen very few clerics with good Dex, anyway. Cha will hurt your ability to turn undead.
Japangirl 11-26-06, 03:52 AM	I'd drop the 14 int to a 12 to allow for 12 Dex to fill out full plate or 12 Cha for turning purposes. Or even to 10 int and get 12 of both Dex and Cha.
Gaelforcwynd 11-26-06, 12:05 PM	Most humans in Perrenland are Flan, Oeridian or a Flan/Oeridian mix, but you can play any human subrace. Where can I get more information regarding these Human sub-races?
kenobi65 11-26-06, 12:21 PM	Where can I get more information regarding these Human sub-races? Well, the official source would be the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, a softcover book that's the official sourcebook for the campaign. It was published back in late 2000/early 2001, but you can usually still find it for sale. Note that any differences between human sub-races are purely flavor / role-playing; there's no mechanical differences.
Gaelforcwynd 11-26-06, 12:57 PM	I'd drop the 14 int to a 12 to allow for 12 Dex to fill out full plate or 12 Cha for turning purposes. Or even to 10 int and get 12 of both Dex and Cha. I'm tending to agree with this idea now. I made some mistakes in my previous calculations, but I think I have reviewed those and factored them into my thinking. The only benefit in having INT above 10 is to access Skill Ranks, improve DC's where INT is the requisite Ability and accessing Wizard spells through scrolls using the Magic Domain. Having the Magic Domain already allows access to Wands and Staves of Wizard spells, which is good. Even with an INT of 13, I would need to wait until Character Level 6 to use 2nd LVL Wizard spell scrolls anyway and Character Level 10 to cast 3rd LVL Wizard spells, by which time I would have access to powerful Divine magic and funds to purchase Arcane Wands. I can only see an INT of 11 or 12 being in any way beneficial, in order to be able to use 2nd LVL Wizard spell scrolls and/or gaining the +1 Ability Modifier. I had previously liked the idea of having access to 3rd LVL Wizard spells such as Haste on scrolls, but the Arcane Spell Failure is prohibitive. Even with the lower Skill Points, I can always invest 1 Rank in Use Magic Item to access a DC on Emulate Ability Score once my effective caster LVL as a Wizard (half Cleric LVL) is adequate. I can take this DC any time without penalty, as I would fulfill all the other requirements for casting off Wizard scrolls. I had forgotten, in my previous calculations, that a 1st LVL character can only have 4 Skill Ranks and can potentially only gain 1 Skill Rank in a previously maxed out Skill per Character Level. So unless I want to have a character with many Skills, the Skill Points of a 1st LVL Human Cleric with 10 INT are adequate. As I would be wearing armour all the time the chance of Arcane Spell Failure negates many of the benefits of using Wizard scrolls and using INT to boost Skill DC's is an expensive use of Ability Score points. Skill Ranks are a cheaper way to improve DC's than Ability Modifiers. I would rather spend those Ability Score points to some more tangible benefit. The benefits of investing in STR or DEX for combat and movement bonuses will likely be more often reaped than those of INT or CHA. Even if I put 14 in CHA, it would only be a +2 Turning Check bonus on those occasions when undead are encountred, compared to the STR or DEX bonuses which can be used in every fight. As I don't have access to non-Core material just yet, I am unsure of which Feats it may be worthwhile investing in early in order to access non-Core Prestige Classes. So far I am considering Combat Casting and Scribe Scroll. I like some of the Metamagic Feats too, but I can't access them until higher LVL anyway, so it doesn't seem wise to choose one yet. Having more information on Prestige Classes would help me choose. So I am going to have to make a decision. Take a 14 in another Ability Score or take two 12's in two other's. I need to decide so I can settle on which Skills to use. So far I am looking at getting Knowledge (Religion) and Knowledge (Arcana) to 5 Ranks by 2nd Character Level and taking 1 Rank in Use Magic Item. My main Skills which I will keep raising as much as I can will be Concentration and Spellcraft. This all hinges on what I decide to do with INT though. Decisions decisions!
Gaelforcwynd 11-26-06, 12:58 PM	Well, the official source would be the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, a softcover book that's the official sourcebook for the campaign. It was published back in late 2000/early 2001, but you can usually still find it for sale. Note that any differences between human sub-races are purely flavor / role-playing; there's no mechanical differences. Thanks for that information, if it's just a matter of flavour, then I'm not too bothered. I am just dealing with the mechanics of character creation for now.
UMiskatonic 11-26-06, 12:59 PM	5 ranks in Knowledge religion is an excellent move. I don't think I've ever seen a cleric who didn't do that. Knowledge religion clerics are also useful for identifying other clerics and religious items. It can be very useful to know that the woman with the volcano necklace worships the goddess of volcanoes, fire, strife, and murder.
Gaelforcwynd 11-26-06, 01:18 PM	Can a moderator please move this thread into the Character Creation area of this forum. Thank you.
ShinAkuma2 11-26-06, 05:33 PM	Note that any differences between human sub-races are purely flavor / role-playing; there's no mechanical differences. There might be differences based on region, or the mod you're playing...I've ran mods where certain subraces have bonuses/penalties to social skills.
_m_ 11-26-06, 07:31 PM	your in perenland right? make a cheeseweasel. everyone will LOVE you!
kenobi65 11-26-06, 09:22 PM	There might be differences based on region, or the mod you're playing...I've ran mods where certain subraces have bonuses/penalties to social skills. Fair enough...and it behooves a new LG player to understand the acceptance (or non-acceptance) of the various human subraces in their region. However, there is no blanket campaign-wide bonus or penalty that any particular human subrace receives.
Gaelforcwynd 11-27-06, 05:45 AM	your in perenland right? make a cheeseweasel. everyone will LOVE you! I will look at Prestige Classes after I have access to Complete Divine. This is a Prestige Class isn't it?
Gaelforcwynd 11-27-06, 05:46 AM	5 ranks in Knowledge religion is an excellent move. I don't think I've ever seen a cleric who didn't do that. Knowledge religion clerics are also useful for identifying other clerics and religious items. It can be very useful to know that the woman with the volcano necklace worships the goddess of volcanoes, fire, strife, and murder. I'm thinking of 5 Ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) too, to get bonuses on Spellcraft.
kenobi65 11-27-06, 10:22 AM	I will look at Prestige Classes after I have access to Complete Divine. This is a Prestige Class isn't it? Radiant Servant (Cheeseweasel)? Yup, and it's in Complete Divine.
zoinks69 11-27-06, 12:04 PM	Radiant Servant (Cheeseweasel)? Yup, and it's in Complete Divine. Ah, but Radiant Servant of ??? Pelor is the obvious choice, the bump to healing is incredible, but what about... Pholtus -- Inquisition domain. Atroa or Lydia -- both offer Travel domain. Combined with Domain Spontonaeity later on, it's pretty nice to be throwing out Fly or D. Door a few times a day. Plenty of other really good options that don't start with P and end with "elor" :) (how often do you really need those heals, really...)
_m_ 11-27-06, 05:00 PM	Ah, but Radiant Servant of ??? Pelor is the obvious choice, the bump to healing is incredible, but what about... Pholtus -- Inquisition domain. Atroa or Lydia -- both offer Travel domain. Combined with Domain Spontonaeity later on, it's pretty nice to be throwing out Fly or D. Door a few times a day. Plenty of other really good options that don't start with P and end with "elor" :) (how often do you really need those heals, really...) aye, but pelor gives you the glory domain. 'nuf said.
retro 11-27-06, 07:26 PM	The thing about the Radiant Servant prestige class is that it can only be taken by clerics who follow a deity that grants the Sun domain- I'm pretty sure that the cleric must choose that domain, as well. Gaelforcwynd, I don't know how that matches up with your plans to take the Travel and Magic domains. Radiant Servants are all about the undead turning, so you may want to consider a high-Charisma build if you're into this. Also, the Old Kerk (Flan deities) is the major divine meta-org in Perrenland, so a cleric of Pelor will get many in-game benefits. If you like a magic-focused build, have you considered playing a multiclassed cleric/wizard or cleric/sorcerer, going for Mystic Theurge or something? You're right not to sweat your human subrace at this stage, unless there's some racial feat that you really want to take. Clan membership is generally more important than subrace in Perrenland, and membership is open to anyone. For skills, consider taking ranks in Heal.
clannagh 11-28-06, 12:26 AM	aye, but pelor gives you the glory domain. 'nuf said. You get glory as a bonus extra domain at level 5 radiant the advantage of Pelor over say Atroa .. is he has healing domain ... the maxed healing effects of radiant servant only work on healing domain heals not your generic cleric ones from your spell list The thing about the Radiant Servant prestige class is that it can only be taken by clerics who follow a deity that grants the Sun domain- I'm pretty sure that the cleric must choose that domain, as well. . yep .. definitely in LG it works that way .. no sun chosen no radiant servant yo could of course take two ther domains and at soem time or other wangle acces to contemplative to give you sun as a third domain .. eventually picking up glory as a 4th domain at the 5th level of radiant servant
Gaelforcwynd 11-28-06, 05:25 AM	Yes, as I favour the Magic and Travel Domains, I was doing the sums yesterday and found that Lydia is probably the most worthwhile Deity to 'Radiantly Serve'. Got to love that Travel Domain. Ah, but Radiant Servant of ??? Pelor is the obvious choice, the bump to healing is incredible, but what about... Pholtus -- Inquisition domain. Atroa or Lydia -- both offer Travel domain. Combined with Domain Spontonaeity later on, it's pretty nice to be throwing out Fly or D. Door a few times a day. Plenty of other really good options that don't start with P and end with "elor" :) (how often do you really need those heals, really...)
Gaelforcwynd 11-28-06, 05:29 AM	aye, but pelor gives you the glory domain. 'nuf said. When choosing the bonus Domain at 5th lvl, does it have to be of that Deity which you serve or does it have to be one of Pelor's? This could be another way of gaining the Glory Domain.
Gaelforcwynd 11-28-06, 06:04 AM	The thing about the Radiant Servant prestige class is that it can only be taken by clerics who follow a deity that grants the Sun domain- I'm pretty sure that the cleric must choose that domain, as well. Gaelforcwynd, I don't know how that matches up with your plans to take the Travel and Magic domains. Radiant Servants are all about the undead turning, so you may want to consider a high-Charisma build if you're into this. Also, the Old Kerk (Flan deities) is the major divine meta-org in Perrenland, so a cleric of Pelor will get many in-game benefits. If you like a magic-focused build, have you considered playing a multiclassed cleric/wizard or cleric/sorcerer, going for Mystic Theurge or something? You're right not to sweat your human subrace at this stage, unless there's some racial feat that you really want to take. Clan membership is generally more important than subrace in Perrenland, and membership is open to anyone. For skills, consider taking ranks in Heal. Well only Daoud and Lirr allow for the Magic and Travel Domains, put only for pure Clerics. As far as Domains go I am looking into the future a bit and seeing what might be worth planning for. Some Prestige Classes like Radiant Servant have very good healing and turning bonuses, access to better weapons, improved saving throws, access to bonus Domain etc. and still allow the Cleric to progress normally in spell aquisition. If I can incorporate either the Magic or Travel Domain into the prerequisites for a powerful Prestige Class, then all the better. Right now I'm looking at Radiant Servant of Lydia or Church Inquisitor of Delleb. Can someone tell me what bonuses you get for worshipping Pelor in Perrenland? For skills, I am looking at maximum Ranks in Concentration, Knowledge (Arcana) 5 Ranks, Knowledge (Religion) 5 Ranks, maximum Ranks in Spellcraft and if my INT allows, to dump any extra points into Heal. I was thinking of getting 1 Rank in Use Magic Item if I had the Magic Domain and not enough INT to activate a Wizard scroll, in order to Emulate an Ability Score, but by the time I meet the Caster Level requirements, those spells will be relatively weak. I think it's best to take 10 INT and settle for using Wands and Staffs through the Magic Domain, 12 DEX for full plate, initiative and ranged attacks and 12 STR for movement.
retro 11-28-06, 05:50 PM	Also, if using scrolls is something you want to do, you can always buy a stat-bump item later on. A headband of intellect +2 is Any access to all characters, and +4 access isn't that uncommon. Do you really need ranks in UMD? You can already use both divine and arcane wands and scrolls- how much more magic item use do you need? Regarding clerics of Pelor in Perrenland, your best bet would be to check out the Perrenland meta-orgs here (http://perrenland.rpga-apac.com/metaorganisations.php). Check out the Old Kerk, and also the Non-Kerk Temples of Perrenland. Note that Church Inquisitor has a special requirement, that may be difficult to fulfil. The Perrenland site advertises a special mission that grants access to Church Inquisitor, but it may be just for Old Kerk members. Best to check with the regional triad on this.
zoinks69 11-29-06, 11:21 PM	aye, but pelor gives you the glory domain. 'nuf said. Pholtus also has Glory. Granted, no Healing, but Inquisition domain + Divine Spell Power plus Prayer Beads later on via Glory + I think you can even throw in Purification domain for another +1 means you can take down some extremely high level magics via Dispel and Greater Dispel Magic.