Rules ?? [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Rules ?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MichaelH85
02-06-05, 09:42 AM I recently played at a local game day. A couple situations made me question the rules that were used in the game. Perhaps someone can help me understand.

There was a rule used during the entire game where if anyone firing/throwing into melee missed the target's AC by 10 or more with his attack roll, he hit his ally with the attack. It actually happened twice during the game that one PC hit another PC with a low ranged attack roll. I asked the DM and another player about this rule and they assured me that it was in the Player's Handbook. I have never played with this rule in effect, and I never read it in the PH. I looked again and I cannot find it. Am I missing something?

Another rule used consistantly during the game was that a prone character does not threaten any squares around him. This rule affected the PC's twice and a bad guy once. Again, I was assured this rule existed in the PH, but I cannot find it. All I find is that prone characters make melee attacks with a -4 penalty, so they must threaten if the can make melee attacks. Am I missing something?

Finally, I played a level 2 character in an APL 4 adventure. The DM said I got half XP and gold. Is this correct? According to what I read in the LGCS I should get full XP and gold because I am not 3 or more levels higher/lower than the APL. Am I missing something?
smerwin29
02-06-05, 10:14 AM Unless there is some errata that I am unaware of, your judge was incorrect on all three rulings.

--Firing a missile weapon into combat can only hit anyone other than the intended target if they are involved in a grapple, or if it is a grenade-like weapon.

--Prone characters still threaten squares around them, assuming they have a weapon in hand that they can use.

--You get xp and gp penalties if you play 3 levels above or below the APL, not 2. A second level character playing at APL 4 gets full gp and xp.

Regards,

Shawn
MichaelH85
02-06-05, 10:35 AM Thanks for the reply. That's what I thought.

What should I do about the XP and gold? Just live with it (which I have no problem doing)? I cannot just change it, can I? How would I go about getting it changed?
Sieylianna
02-06-05, 11:46 AM What should I do about the XP and gold? Just live with it (which I have no problem doing)? I cannot just change it, can I? How would I go about getting it changed?

My suggestion would be to change it, explain the mistake to your next judge, and ask him to initial it. Then put the correct totals on your next AR.

You also need to educate the judge, is there a triad member in your local area who can talk to him?

Ed
AqualubeOwnz
02-06-05, 10:32 PM yea you definatly should of got your full gold and exp, about the whokle arrow thing it is not an official rule but i have played many games where the dm lieks to house rule this, its quite fun but still not official.
King Kashue
02-07-05, 02:20 AM yea you definatly should of got your full gold and exp, about the whokle arrow thing it is not an official rule but i have played many games where the dm lieks to house rule this, its quite fun but still not official.

That's not even how the existing variant rule is supposed to work though...It's supposed to be missed by 4 or less (the cover bonus) you would hit the cover (since if the cover wasn't there, you would have hit the guy, thus the cover blocked it)...

But yeah, variant rules are not allowed in Living Greyhawk...Everything is supposed to be by the book (a level playing field no matter where you go)...

Correcting a DM is tricky business, since there are judges out there who are immature wankers who will get vindictive with their rulings (at a con, there is always the senior DM...in smaller settings, you often have the senior dm as the judge, which can be nasty if there is a problem)...
wagnert
02-07-05, 03:12 PM I recently played at a local game day. A couple situations made me question the rules that were used in the game. Perhaps someone can help me understand.

There was a rule used during the entire game where if anyone firing/throwing into melee missed the target's AC by 10 or more with his attack roll, he hit his ally with the attack. It actually happened twice during the game that one PC hit another PC with a low ranged attack roll. I asked the DM and another player about this rule and they assured me that it was in the Player's Handbook. I have never played with this rule in effect, and I never read it in the PH. I looked again and I cannot find it. Am I missing something?

Another rule used consistantly during the game was that a prone character does not threaten any squares around him. This rule affected the PC's twice and a bad guy once. Again, I was assured this rule existed in the PH, but I cannot find it. All I find is that prone characters make melee attacks with a -4 penalty, so they must threaten if the can make melee attacks. Am I missing something?

Finally, I played a level 2 character in an APL 4 adventure. The DM said I got half XP and gold. Is this correct? According to what I read in the LGCS I should get full XP and gold because I am not 3 or more levels higher/lower than the APL. Am I missing something?

There is a change from version 3.0 to 3.5 in missile missing. In 3.0 you did have a chance to hit the wrong target, but it was removed in 3.5. The prone is probably also a change from 3.0 to 3.5. Your judge may have been assuming 3.0 and 3.5 were mostly the same, however, over time we have discovered that many tiny differences exist and judges and players need to refer to the current 3.5 books to verify the rules.

Saturday, I had a player try to cast a spell, and I couldn't find it in the PHB. I discovered he had a 3.0 PHB and the spell had changed name in 3.5 PHB.

Yes, as noted by previous posters, the half xp rule only applies to 3 or more levels away from the APL.
Barbara
02-20-05, 05:45 AM If you're unsure what the judge's reaction will be to you asking for a change on the AR, particularly if they were wrong and certain about the decision, take a copy of the rules with you so you can point it out.

I had been docked gold for playing down in one game (1/2 xp & 1/2 gold). But when I read the rules it said I actually recieve 1/2 xp and full gold for playing down. I took the rules to the GM the next time we played and he was glad I pointed the mistake out to him. Not all GMs will be that happy, but some might. On the otherhand, I've had other people I've played with blatently tell me I was wrong and that the book said no such thing as I quoted out of an open book. You'll have to assess the demeanor of the GM yourself. If it doesn't work with him, go to your triad for further consultation.
King Kashue
02-20-05, 11:56 AM If you're unsure what the judge's reaction will be to you asking for a change on the AR, particularly if they were wrong and certain about the decision, take a copy of the rules with you so you can point it out.

I had been docked gold for playing down in one game (1/2 xp & 1/2 gold). But when I read the rules it said I actually recieve 1/2 xp and full gold for playing down. I took the rules to the GM the next time we played and he was glad I pointed the mistake out to him. Not all GMs will be that happy, but some might. On the otherhand, I've had other people I've played with blatently tell me I was wrong and that the book said no such thing as I quoted out of an open book. You'll have to assess the demeanor of the GM yourself. If it doesn't work with him, go to your triad for further consultation.

Yeah, it's important not to get into an argument...on simple demeanor, a calm person can make a emotional person look wrong, even if they're right...Make sure to try to explain it at least 3 times, calmly, politely. If he still doesn't change it, contact the triad...
MichaelH85
02-22-05, 06:52 PM Thanks for all the replies. I DM LG myself and it just annoyed me when these rules were sprung on us, especially when they are not even close to anything in the core rules. I did not argue much or cause a scene, but I am going to speak to the DM in question at the next game day next month about not using house rules in LG games.

About the XP, I will simply ask the next DM I play with if I can change the AR to reflect the proper amount of XP, with the LGCS rule in question in hand. If he says yes, great. If he says no, I will accept that and move on. :cool:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MichaelH85 02-06-05, 09:42 AM	I recently played at a local game day. A couple situations made me question the rules that were used in the game. Perhaps someone can help me understand. There was a rule used during the entire game where if anyone firing/throwing into melee missed the target's AC by 10 or more with his attack roll, he hit his ally with the attack. It actually happened twice during the game that one PC hit another PC with a low ranged attack roll. I asked the DM and another player about this rule and they assured me that it was in the Player's Handbook. I have never played with this rule in effect, and I never read it in the PH. I looked again and I cannot find it. Am I missing something? Another rule used consistantly during the game was that a prone character does not threaten any squares around him. This rule affected the PC's twice and a bad guy once. Again, I was assured this rule existed in the PH, but I cannot find it. All I find is that prone characters make melee attacks with a -4 penalty, so they must threaten if the can make melee attacks. Am I missing something? Finally, I played a level 2 character in an APL 4 adventure. The DM said I got half XP and gold. Is this correct? According to what I read in the LGCS I should get full XP and gold because I am not 3 or more levels higher/lower than the APL. Am I missing something?
smerwin29 02-06-05, 10:14 AM	Unless there is some errata that I am unaware of, your judge was incorrect on all three rulings. --Firing a missile weapon into combat can only hit anyone other than the intended target if they are involved in a grapple, or if it is a grenade-like weapon. --Prone characters still threaten squares around them, assuming they have a weapon in hand that they can use. --You get xp and gp penalties if you play 3 levels above or below the APL, not 2. A second level character playing at APL 4 gets full gp and xp. Regards, Shawn
MichaelH85 02-06-05, 10:35 AM	Thanks for the reply. That's what I thought. What should I do about the XP and gold? Just live with it (which I have no problem doing)? I cannot just change it, can I? How would I go about getting it changed?
Sieylianna 02-06-05, 11:46 AM	What should I do about the XP and gold? Just live with it (which I have no problem doing)? I cannot just change it, can I? How would I go about getting it changed? My suggestion would be to change it, explain the mistake to your next judge, and ask him to initial it. Then put the correct totals on your next AR. You also need to educate the judge, is there a triad member in your local area who can talk to him? Ed
AqualubeOwnz 02-06-05, 10:32 PM	yea you definatly should of got your full gold and exp, about the whokle arrow thing it is not an official rule but i have played many games where the dm lieks to house rule this, its quite fun but still not official.
King Kashue 02-07-05, 02:20 AM	yea you definatly should of got your full gold and exp, about the whokle arrow thing it is not an official rule but i have played many games where the dm lieks to house rule this, its quite fun but still not official. That's not even how the existing variant rule is supposed to work though...It's supposed to be missed by 4 or less (the cover bonus) you would hit the cover (since if the cover wasn't there, you would have hit the guy, thus the cover blocked it)... But yeah, variant rules are not allowed in Living Greyhawk...Everything is supposed to be by the book (a level playing field no matter where you go)... Correcting a DM is tricky business, since there are judges out there who are immature wankers who will get vindictive with their rulings (at a con, there is always the senior DM...in smaller settings, you often have the senior dm as the judge, which can be nasty if there is a problem)...
wagnert 02-07-05, 03:12 PM	I recently played at a local game day. A couple situations made me question the rules that were used in the game. Perhaps someone can help me understand. There was a rule used during the entire game where if anyone firing/throwing into melee missed the target's AC by 10 or more with his attack roll, he hit his ally with the attack. It actually happened twice during the game that one PC hit another PC with a low ranged attack roll. I asked the DM and another player about this rule and they assured me that it was in the Player's Handbook. I have never played with this rule in effect, and I never read it in the PH. I looked again and I cannot find it. Am I missing something? Another rule used consistantly during the game was that a prone character does not threaten any squares around him. This rule affected the PC's twice and a bad guy once. Again, I was assured this rule existed in the PH, but I cannot find it. All I find is that prone characters make melee attacks with a -4 penalty, so they must threaten if the can make melee attacks. Am I missing something? Finally, I played a level 2 character in an APL 4 adventure. The DM said I got half XP and gold. Is this correct? According to what I read in the LGCS I should get full XP and gold because I am not 3 or more levels higher/lower than the APL. Am I missing something? There is a change from version 3.0 to 3.5 in missile missing. In 3.0 you did have a chance to hit the wrong target, but it was removed in 3.5. The prone is probably also a change from 3.0 to 3.5. Your judge may have been assuming 3.0 and 3.5 were mostly the same, however, over time we have discovered that many tiny differences exist and judges and players need to refer to the current 3.5 books to verify the rules. Saturday, I had a player try to cast a spell, and I couldn't find it in the PHB. I discovered he had a 3.0 PHB and the spell had changed name in 3.5 PHB. Yes, as noted by previous posters, the half xp rule only applies to 3 or more levels away from the APL.
Barbara 02-20-05, 05:45 AM	If you're unsure what the judge's reaction will be to you asking for a change on the AR, particularly if they were wrong and certain about the decision, take a copy of the rules with you so you can point it out. I had been docked gold for playing down in one game (1/2 xp & 1/2 gold). But when I read the rules it said I actually recieve 1/2 xp and full gold for playing down. I took the rules to the GM the next time we played and he was glad I pointed the mistake out to him. Not all GMs will be that happy, but some might. On the otherhand, I've had other people I've played with blatently tell me I was wrong and that the book said no such thing as I quoted out of an open book. You'll have to assess the demeanor of the GM yourself. If it doesn't work with him, go to your triad for further consultation.
King Kashue 02-20-05, 11:56 AM	If you're unsure what the judge's reaction will be to you asking for a change on the AR, particularly if they were wrong and certain about the decision, take a copy of the rules with you so you can point it out. I had been docked gold for playing down in one game (1/2 xp & 1/2 gold). But when I read the rules it said I actually recieve 1/2 xp and full gold for playing down. I took the rules to the GM the next time we played and he was glad I pointed the mistake out to him. Not all GMs will be that happy, but some might. On the otherhand, I've had other people I've played with blatently tell me I was wrong and that the book said no such thing as I quoted out of an open book. You'll have to assess the demeanor of the GM yourself. If it doesn't work with him, go to your triad for further consultation. Yeah, it's important not to get into an argument...on simple demeanor, a calm person can make a emotional person look wrong, even if they're right...Make sure to try to explain it at least 3 times, calmly, politely. If he still doesn't change it, contact the triad...
MichaelH85 02-22-05, 06:52 PM	Thanks for all the replies. I DM LG myself and it just annoyed me when these rules were sprung on us, especially when they are not even close to anything in the core rules. I did not argue much or cause a scene, but I am going to speak to the DM in question at the next game day next month about not using house rules in LG games. About the XP, I will simply ask the next DM I play with if I can change the AR to reflect the proper amount of XP, with the LGCS rule in question in hand. If he says yes, great. If he says no, I will accept that and move on. :cool: