Sacred Healing = Complete Divine or PHB2? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Sacred Healing = Complete Divine or PHB2? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Amurayi
05-22-07, 03:51 AM Heya,

the feat "Sacred Healing" has a refrence to Complete Divine in the open list. Yet a new version has been published in PHB2.

With the new rulings does it mean people can use the old version of Complete Divine if they don't intend to buy the PHB2?

Reprinted Rules Options
LG uses the most recent printing of rules options from any
of the books listed at the beginning of this chapter. If a new
book changes an existing rules option, continue to use the
previous version until instructed otherwise by official
campaign documentation. If the campaign changes to use
the printing of a rules option in a new book that you do not
own and do not plan to purchase, you may gain an
immediate, free use of Retraining for the purpose of
replacing the updated rules option.
awroe
05-22-07, 04:07 AM Heya,

the feat "Sacred Healing" has a refrence to Complete Divine in the open list. Yet a new version has been published in PHB2.

With the new rulings does it mean people can use the old version of Complete Divine if they don't intend to buy the PHB2?

My understanding is that they are quite different feats that unfortunately share a name rather than a rewording, and thus both are still available for use if you have the documentation. Similar to the many "sink" spells around.

AW.
pedr
05-22-07, 06:40 AM And, for clarity, this means that you have campaign documentation with respect to the CD version (the LGCS). You'd need other campaign documentation to use the PH2 version as it isn't listed as Open in the LGCS.
Timlagor
05-22-07, 07:16 AM I blieve the PH2 version is actually listed as Closed in teh LGCS
jstorrie
05-22-07, 02:14 PM Yep, the CD version is Open, the PHB2 version closed.

Probably so that people who took the CD version aren't hosed with the PHB2 feat which does a completely different thing.
King Kashue
05-22-07, 03:22 PM I blieve the PH2 version is actually listed as Closed in teh LGCS

It's not listed as closed. It's obviously closed by default, but it's not in the closed section.

But Britt has already answered on this in the question thread, the two feats are not the same feat, despite having the same name. This is why the forums need a search function.
bitznarf
05-22-07, 03:40 PM It's not listed as closed. It's obviously closed by default, but it's not in the closed section.
No, its not closed. If it was closed it would be listed in the closed section. The default is NONC, not closed. "The rules options in this document are divided into two types of access." Thus, if the rules option is not in the document, Open and Closed do not apply (until something opens that rules option).
King Kashue
05-22-07, 04:33 PM No, its not closed. If it was closed it would be listed in the closed section. The default is NONC, not closed. "The rules options in this document are divided into two types of access." Thus, if the rules option is not in the document, Open and Closed do not apply (until something opens that rules option).

I'm not having this idiotic discussion with you again...

Cite the passage of the LGCS that uses the phrase "NONC", and I'll agree with you in an instant.

Otherwise:

"The rules options in this document are divided into two types of access. If a rules option is not included in this document, you must have campaign documentation Opening it for your PC.
• Open: A PC may take advantage of Open rules items if it meets all the prerequisites. If you gain campaign documentation granting you access to a new rules option, that effectively Opens that rules option for that PC."

There are "two types of access", open and closed. If it's not been opened to you, it's closed to you.

That's all I said. Unless a character has campaign documentation, it's closed to them by default...

Now go away...
bitznarf
05-22-07, 04:37 PM There are "two types of access", open and closed. If it's not been opened to you, it's closed to you.

That's all I said. Unless a character has campaign documentation, it's closed to them by default...
And thats the part I don't agree with.

The terms Open and Closed only apply to the rules option in the document. ""The rules options in this document are divided into two types of access." Sacred Healing from the PHB2 is not in the document, therefor Open and Closed do not apply, until something Opens it, at which point the document now deals with the item. Pick a different word than NONC if you want for the non-listed items. If non-listed items are Closed by default PCs would never be able to use them.
"• Closed: A PC may not take advantage of any rules item listed as Closed, ever."

You're welcome to try again if you want.
King Kashue
05-22-07, 04:48 PM You're welcome to try again if you want.

Naw, returning my "go away" was far better than this wussy nonsense ;)

And I'm wrong. Don't know how I missed this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgif/20070213a)

Apologies...
bitznarf
05-22-07, 04:59 PM Yeah, but we were getting into a flame war of sorts, and I wanted to aviod that. Don't worry about it though, we are all wrong now and again.
Amurayi
05-22-07, 08:23 PM But Britt has already answered on this in the question thread, the two feats are not the same feat, despite having the same name. This is why the forums need a search function.

Sorry Britt hasn't given an answer to this question yet. He said they will look into the issue of "Sacred Healing". I couldn't find any reference where they said these are two different feats.

Here's his answer:
Originally Posted by szwanger
What happens when a new book completely rewrites an existing feat?...Does a PC with that feat have to keep the feat?...

Does he start using the new version of the feat as soon as the new book is published? Or does he wait for a Dispel Confusion or new LGCS, and use the old version until then? Or can he ignore the new version and continue using the old version and just treat them as two different feats with the same name?

1) Things like this would have to be handled on a case-by-case basis. We will look into the Sacred Healing feat when we examine P2.

2) For the cases of a new book, you would continue to use the old feat until the Circle addresses the new book in a Dispel Confusion or the LGCS. This is a rare issue, though, so it shouldn't be much of a problem.
bitznarf
05-22-07, 08:47 PM Sorry Britt hasn't given an answer to this question yet. He said they will look into the issue of "Sacred Healing". I couldn't find any reference where they said these are two different feats.

Here's his answer:
I know that Britt has answered this somewhere, but a search of my LG Questions/Answers - sorted thread shows that it was not in that thread. It may be in a DC somewhere, or a post inside one of the LGCS 597 discussion threads, but the ruling has been made.

And a Google search finds it: http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-795689.html
Basically they are 2 different feats under the same name.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Amurayi 05-22-07, 03:51 AM	Heya, the feat "Sacred Healing" has a refrence to Complete Divine in the open list. Yet a new version has been published in PHB2. With the new rulings does it mean people can use the old version of Complete Divine if they don't intend to buy the PHB2? Reprinted Rules Options LG uses the most recent printing of rules options from any of the books listed at the beginning of this chapter. If a new book changes an existing rules option, continue to use the previous version until instructed otherwise by official campaign documentation. If the campaign changes to use the printing of a rules option in a new book that you do not own and do not plan to purchase, you may gain an immediate, free use of Retraining for the purpose of replacing the updated rules option.
awroe 05-22-07, 04:07 AM	Heya, the feat "Sacred Healing" has a refrence to Complete Divine in the open list. Yet a new version has been published in PHB2. With the new rulings does it mean people can use the old version of Complete Divine if they don't intend to buy the PHB2? My understanding is that they are quite different feats that unfortunately share a name rather than a rewording, and thus both are still available for use if you have the documentation. Similar to the many "sink" spells around. AW.
pedr 05-22-07, 06:40 AM	And, for clarity, this means that you have campaign documentation with respect to the CD version (the LGCS). You'd need other campaign documentation to use the PH2 version as it isn't listed as Open in the LGCS.
Timlagor 05-22-07, 07:16 AM	I blieve the PH2 version is actually listed as Closed in teh LGCS
jstorrie 05-22-07, 02:14 PM	Yep, the CD version is Open, the PHB2 version closed. Probably so that people who took the CD version aren't hosed with the PHB2 feat which does a completely different thing.
King Kashue 05-22-07, 03:22 PM	I blieve the PH2 version is actually listed as Closed in teh LGCS It's not listed as closed. It's obviously closed by default, but it's not in the closed section. But Britt has already answered on this in the question thread, the two feats are not the same feat, despite having the same name. This is why the forums need a search function.
bitznarf 05-22-07, 03:40 PM	It's not listed as closed. It's obviously closed by default, but it's not in the closed section. No, its not closed. If it was closed it would be listed in the closed section. The default is NONC, not closed. "The rules options in this document are divided into two types of access." Thus, if the rules option is not in the document, Open and Closed do not apply (until something opens that rules option).
King Kashue 05-22-07, 04:33 PM	No, its not closed. If it was closed it would be listed in the closed section. The default is NONC, not closed. "The rules options in this document are divided into two types of access." Thus, if the rules option is not in the document, Open and Closed do not apply (until something opens that rules option). I'm not having this idiotic discussion with you again... Cite the passage of the LGCS that uses the phrase "NONC", and I'll agree with you in an instant. Otherwise: "The rules options in this document are divided into two types of access. If a rules option is not included in this document, you must have campaign documentation Opening it for your PC. • Open: A PC may take advantage of Open rules items if it meets all the prerequisites. If you gain campaign documentation granting you access to a new rules option, that effectively Opens that rules option for that PC." There are "two types of access", open and closed. If it's not been opened to you, it's closed to you. That's all I said. Unless a character has campaign documentation, it's closed to them by default... Now go away...
bitznarf 05-22-07, 04:37 PM	There are "two types of access", open and closed. If it's not been opened to you, it's closed to you. That's all I said. Unless a character has campaign documentation, it's closed to them by default... And thats the part I don't agree with. The terms Open and Closed only apply to the rules option in the document. ""The rules options in this document are divided into two types of access." Sacred Healing from the PHB2 is not in the document, therefor Open and Closed do not apply, until something Opens it, at which point the document now deals with the item. Pick a different word than NONC if you want for the non-listed items. If non-listed items are Closed by default PCs would never be able to use them. "• Closed: A PC may not take advantage of any rules item listed as Closed, ever." You're welcome to try again if you want.
King Kashue 05-22-07, 04:48 PM	You're welcome to try again if you want. Naw, returning my "go away" was far better than this wussy nonsense ;) And I'm wrong. Don't know how I missed this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgif/20070213a) Apologies...
bitznarf 05-22-07, 04:59 PM	Yeah, but we were getting into a flame war of sorts, and I wanted to aviod that. Don't worry about it though, we are all wrong now and again.
Amurayi 05-22-07, 08:23 PM	But Britt has already answered on this in the question thread, the two feats are not the same feat, despite having the same name. This is why the forums need a search function. Sorry Britt hasn't given an answer to this question yet. He said they will look into the issue of "Sacred Healing". I couldn't find any reference where they said these are two different feats. Here's his answer: Originally Posted by szwanger What happens when a new book completely rewrites an existing feat?...Does a PC with that feat have to keep the feat?... Does he start using the new version of the feat as soon as the new book is published? Or does he wait for a Dispel Confusion or new LGCS, and use the old version until then? Or can he ignore the new version and continue using the old version and just treat them as two different feats with the same name? 1) Things like this would have to be handled on a case-by-case basis. We will look into the Sacred Healing feat when we examine P2. 2) For the cases of a new book, you would continue to use the old feat until the Circle addresses the new book in a Dispel Confusion or the LGCS. This is a rare issue, though, so it shouldn't be much of a problem.
bitznarf 05-22-07, 08:47 PM	Sorry Britt hasn't given an answer to this question yet. He said they will look into the issue of "Sacred Healing". I couldn't find any reference where they said these are two different feats. Here's his answer: I know that Britt has answered this somewhere, but a search of my LG Questions/Answers - sorted thread shows that it was not in that thread. It may be in a DC somewhere, or a post inside one of the LGCS 597 discussion threads, but the ruling has been made. And a Google search finds it: http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-795689.html Basically they are 2 different feats under the same name.