Shapechanger builds [Archive] - Wizards Community

Shapechanger builds [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BraveKnight
07-27-06, 05:45 PM I have a new character with a couple levels of druid under her belt and was looking for some advice on how to maximize her shapechanging abilities. She's a halfling druid with low strength and am hoping that that won't hold her back from being an effective support "fighter" and/or spell caster "healer". What do I need to be able to cast spells while shapechanged?
Japangirl
07-27-06, 05:49 PM Take the feat Natural Spell. It's core, it's in the PHB.

Natural Spell [General]

Prerequisites
Wis 13, wild shape ability.

Benefit

You can complete the verbal and somatic components of spells while in a wild shape. You substitute various noises and gestures for the normal verbal and somatic components of a spell.

You can also use any material components or focuses you possess, even if such items are melded within your current form. This feat does not permit the use of magic items while you are in a form that could not ordinarily use them, and you do not gain the ability to speak while in a wild shape.
Paul H
07-27-06, 07:23 PM Hi

Personally, would stay Druid, keeping the spells. Natural spell already mentioned. Could dip into one other class to enhance style, though. Eg: Barbarian's good for rage. Some PrC's offer good bonuses for a level 'dip'.

If you want a Prestige Class, here's some suggestions.

1) One level of Warshaper, (need BAB +4 plus wildshape, so OK at 6th lvl Druid). This grants immunity to Crits, (therefore sneak as well), plus Stunning.
2nd lvl would also grant +4 Str +4 Con in any form,

2) Master Many Forms (CA Pg 59)
Prereqs Alertness, Endurance, Wild Shape feature.
Best means of Wild Shape, but you lose spellcsating progression.
Shifter's Speech allows you to communicate with other creatures of type you're shifted into. You can also shift into Humanoid shapes. Want to speak Troglodyte? Shift into Trog, then talk to it. (This only works whilst in that form, however, & doesn't grant ability to speak language).

At 2nd Lvl you can shift into Large or Giant types.
Potentially, if you take PrC at 6th lvl, you can complete the class, being able to shift into Gargantuan or Dragon types at 10th, shift as move equiv. at 3rd, plus gain all extraordinary abilities at 7th. You also gain one extra use wildshape per class lvl/day.

Cheers
Paul H
Namarus
07-28-06, 08:49 AM 1 Level of Beastmaster is always good value.
Paul H
07-28-06, 10:20 AM Hi

True - but Skill Focus Handle Animal is prereq. At least the 2 feats for Master Many Forms actually have other uses.

Cheers
Paul H
blood_kite
07-28-06, 11:23 AM Since my main character is a halfling druid I feel qualified to offer suggestions.

If you want to concentrate on wildshaping at the expense of spells then Nature's Warrior and Warshaper will give you good boosts to your animal forms. If you do that you probably want to go druid/nature's warrior first till you have 8 total levels in them and can wildshape into large creatures.

But going straight druid might be better for you. I don't think Nature's Armaments and the benefits of Warshaper compare to 6th, 7th, and 8th level druid spells.
Reylance
07-28-06, 01:46 PM I also play a halfling druid. My focus is rarely wildshaping, though, and I'm as likely to fight with a club and my animal companion as I am to fight in wild shape. Druids have a fair number of damaging and battlefield control spells starting at 4th level, plus good utility spells. (Flame Strike, Arc of Lighting, Wall of Thorns, Freedom of Movement, Air Walk, etc.)

The best wildshape build, hands down, is Master of Many Forms with a level of Warshaper.
JohnduBois
07-28-06, 04:22 PM The best wildshape build, hands down, is Master of Many Forms with a level of Warshaper.

Why not two levels of Warshaper to get the +4 unnamed bonuses to Str and Con?
Reylance
07-31-06, 04:48 PM Why not two levels of Warshaper to get the +4 unnamed bonuses to Str and Con?

After seven levels of MoMF, sure!
Cardinal Teplin
08-04-06, 08:44 AM Meh, I'm going straight Master of Many Forms myself.

The big problem with warshaper is that it doesn't add to your base shapechanging abilities. A druid 10 warshaper 5 can only change into forms with 10 Hit Dice.

There's three basic ways to run a shapeshifter.

First off, get one form you like a stick with it. Many people have a particular form they like to turn into, and then gets lots of equipment and feats that are really tailored for that form. Picking up enough Master of Many Forms levels to go Troll is one of the most common approaches. They then go for fighter or bqarbarian levels, and more or less ignore spellcasting, or fighting as anything else.

The second approach is to maximise shapechanging abilities. This really needs Master of Many Forms for at least 7 levels. You can then move over to warshaper, or possibly Nature's warrior, or stick with Master of Many Forms.

The Third approach is to maximise spellcasting, and use that to boost your combat abilties. Straight Druid is the most common method here, but Nature's Warriror is worth a look.

Mechanically, the best approach is straight druid. They get most of the best combat forms, and high level spellcasting on top.

For optimising a shapeshifter, I'd consider Natural Spell. I'd also look at Fast Healing - the feat from complete warrior. While normally this is a really really bad feat for LG, it does make you heal faster when you change shape. I didn't take it, but you might want to.

Other than that there are the various wild feats in Complete Divine, which only shapeshifters can take. Try to avoid taking more than one of these, or take a feat to give you more uses of wildshape per day.

Alternatively, go for improved trip. Ever seen someone try to an opposed size + strength roll against a treant? It's funny! Some form of improved grapple is also good.

However, at the very high levels, you're really going to be more effective using spells. That's just the nature of high level play, and you may want to sink some feats into spellcasting in preparation for that.

H
Lomiat
08-04-06, 10:09 AM Here's a build that I find amusing (though not necessarily amusing enough to play through its levels in LG):

Barbarian 1/Druid 12/Nature's Warrior1
BAB +11
Improved Unarmed Strike
Improved Grapple
Reckless Rage
and the Nature's Warrior ability that gives you +4 to grapple when you have Improved Grab

Wildshape into an Elephant (Huge and +10 [?] STR), cast Bull's Strength on yourself, Rage with Reckless Rage, elephant has Improved Grab, and your grapple check becomes +32 plus the Elephant's base STR, so somewhere around +42 grapple check modifier at 14th level. It's just silly. Of course it leaves a halfling taking an XP penalty for pretty much his whole career...
blood_kite
08-04-06, 01:28 PM Elephant's don't have Improved Grab, they have Trample.
Lomiat
08-04-06, 02:47 PM Hmm... I thought they did. Oh, well. That's what I get for inventing stuff without the source books handy. Originally, the build is for a min-maxed Half-Orc barbarian who goes into Bear Warrior because I'm pretty darned sure that Brown Bears and Dire Bears have Improved Grab.... (Of course Dire Bear bear warriors have Improved Grab on the other side of the high-level campaign for LG.)
Paul H
08-04-06, 07:54 PM Hi

Hmmm. Troll. Verrrrry Nice!
Had considered Dire Ape (effectively same Strength), but Troll much better Con.

If you need Troll just for Str/Con/Size bonuses, then you don't need a PrC.
If you want the full Extraordinary Abilities, then Druid 5/Master Many Forms 7.
You now Regenerate & can Rend. However, you can only cast up to 3rd Lvl Spells, even though you're 12th Lvl. Your Animal Companion also suffers.

Druid 8/Barbarian 1 in Troll form has minimum 104 HP. Your choice whether to Gtr Magic Fang & benefit all Natural attacks (no rend), or use manufactured weapon. My favourite is Gt Sword.

Druid/barbarian also offers 'exotic' cavalry choices. You could be shifted into troll (lge giant), riding Giant Crocodile (Huge Animal). If you can't get access to crocs as companion, then summon one (Nature's Ally IV), though you'll suffer usual penalties for no saddle. (You can also ride your Dire Bat companion whilst a Troll, but costs you 5th lvl spell - Animal Growth)

That's the problem with Druids - so many choices!

Lastly, don't forget that (Druid 7th), Summon Nature's Ally IV also includes Unicorns. Free healing & poison cure!

Cheers
Paul H
Oogar
08-04-06, 08:52 PM Any particular way you are planning to turn into a Troll without levels of Master of Many Forms?
Paul H
08-04-06, 09:20 PM Hi

Oops! Forgot that Druids don't get Giant type for shifting. (Just Large at 8th).

So yes - 2 levels of Master Many Forms reqd for Troll.

But Dire Ape still gives same effective strength, just low Con. (Dire Ape 14, Troll 23). Dire Apes are option for 8th lvl Druids.

Still fancy Dire Ape with Gt Sword riding Animal Growth'd (Grown?) Dire Bat!
Druid 9, (Immune to poison),with Feats: Natural Spell, Lion's Pounce, so it can full attack on charge, cast spells in animal form, etc.

(Just noticed unenhanced Large Rhino [Druid 8] does 6d6+36 on charge)!

Cheers
Paul H
(Still writing at 2.20am local)!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BraveKnight 07-27-06, 05:45 PM	I have a new character with a couple levels of druid under her belt and was looking for some advice on how to maximize her shapechanging abilities. She's a halfling druid with low strength and am hoping that that won't hold her back from being an effective support "fighter" and/or spell caster "healer". What do I need to be able to cast spells while shapechanged?
Japangirl 07-27-06, 05:49 PM	Take the feat Natural Spell. It's core, it's in the PHB. Natural Spell [General] Prerequisites Wis 13, wild shape ability. Benefit You can complete the verbal and somatic components of spells while in a wild shape. You substitute various noises and gestures for the normal verbal and somatic components of a spell. You can also use any material components or focuses you possess, even if such items are melded within your current form. This feat does not permit the use of magic items while you are in a form that could not ordinarily use them, and you do not gain the ability to speak while in a wild shape.
Paul H 07-27-06, 07:23 PM	Hi Personally, would stay Druid, keeping the spells. Natural spell already mentioned. Could dip into one other class to enhance style, though. Eg: Barbarian's good for rage. Some PrC's offer good bonuses for a level 'dip'. If you want a Prestige Class, here's some suggestions. 1) One level of Warshaper, (need BAB +4 plus wildshape, so OK at 6th lvl Druid). This grants immunity to Crits, (therefore sneak as well), plus Stunning. 2nd lvl would also grant +4 Str +4 Con in any form, 2) Master Many Forms (CA Pg 59) Prereqs Alertness, Endurance, Wild Shape feature. Best means of Wild Shape, but you lose spellcsating progression. Shifter's Speech allows you to communicate with other creatures of type you're shifted into. You can also shift into Humanoid shapes. Want to speak Troglodyte? Shift into Trog, then talk to it. (This only works whilst in that form, however, & doesn't grant ability to speak language). At 2nd Lvl you can shift into Large or Giant types. Potentially, if you take PrC at 6th lvl, you can complete the class, being able to shift into Gargantuan or Dragon types at 10th, shift as move equiv. at 3rd, plus gain all extraordinary abilities at 7th. You also gain one extra use wildshape per class lvl/day. Cheers Paul H
Namarus 07-28-06, 08:49 AM	1 Level of Beastmaster is always good value.
Paul H 07-28-06, 10:20 AM	Hi True - but Skill Focus Handle Animal is prereq. At least the 2 feats for Master Many Forms actually have other uses. Cheers Paul H
blood_kite 07-28-06, 11:23 AM	Since my main character is a halfling druid I feel qualified to offer suggestions. If you want to concentrate on wildshaping at the expense of spells then Nature's Warrior and Warshaper will give you good boosts to your animal forms. If you do that you probably want to go druid/nature's warrior first till you have 8 total levels in them and can wildshape into large creatures. But going straight druid might be better for you. I don't think Nature's Armaments and the benefits of Warshaper compare to 6th, 7th, and 8th level druid spells.
Reylance 07-28-06, 01:46 PM	I also play a halfling druid. My focus is rarely wildshaping, though, and I'm as likely to fight with a club and my animal companion as I am to fight in wild shape. Druids have a fair number of damaging and battlefield control spells starting at 4th level, plus good utility spells. (Flame Strike, Arc of Lighting, Wall of Thorns, Freedom of Movement, Air Walk, etc.) The best wildshape build, hands down, is Master of Many Forms with a level of Warshaper.
JohnduBois 07-28-06, 04:22 PM	The best wildshape build, hands down, is Master of Many Forms with a level of Warshaper. Why not two levels of Warshaper to get the +4 unnamed bonuses to Str and Con?
Reylance 07-31-06, 04:48 PM	Why not two levels of Warshaper to get the +4 unnamed bonuses to Str and Con? After seven levels of MoMF, sure!
Cardinal Teplin 08-04-06, 08:44 AM	Meh, I'm going straight Master of Many Forms myself. The big problem with warshaper is that it doesn't add to your base shapechanging abilities. A druid 10 warshaper 5 can only change into forms with 10 Hit Dice. There's three basic ways to run a shapeshifter. First off, get one form you like a stick with it. Many people have a particular form they like to turn into, and then gets lots of equipment and feats that are really tailored for that form. Picking up enough Master of Many Forms levels to go Troll is one of the most common approaches. They then go for fighter or bqarbarian levels, and more or less ignore spellcasting, or fighting as anything else. The second approach is to maximise shapechanging abilities. This really needs Master of Many Forms for at least 7 levels. You can then move over to warshaper, or possibly Nature's warrior, or stick with Master of Many Forms. The Third approach is to maximise spellcasting, and use that to boost your combat abilties. Straight Druid is the most common method here, but Nature's Warriror is worth a look. Mechanically, the best approach is straight druid. They get most of the best combat forms, and high level spellcasting on top. For optimising a shapeshifter, I'd consider Natural Spell. I'd also look at Fast Healing - the feat from complete warrior. While normally this is a really really bad feat for LG, it does make you heal faster when you change shape. I didn't take it, but you might want to. Other than that there are the various wild feats in Complete Divine, which only shapeshifters can take. Try to avoid taking more than one of these, or take a feat to give you more uses of wildshape per day. Alternatively, go for improved trip. Ever seen someone try to an opposed size + strength roll against a treant? It's funny! Some form of improved grapple is also good. However, at the very high levels, you're really going to be more effective using spells. That's just the nature of high level play, and you may want to sink some feats into spellcasting in preparation for that. H
Lomiat 08-04-06, 10:09 AM	Here's a build that I find amusing (though not necessarily amusing enough to play through its levels in LG): Barbarian 1/Druid 12/Nature's Warrior1 BAB +11 Improved Unarmed Strike Improved Grapple Reckless Rage and the Nature's Warrior ability that gives you +4 to grapple when you have Improved Grab Wildshape into an Elephant (Huge and +10 [?] STR), cast Bull's Strength on yourself, Rage with Reckless Rage, elephant has Improved Grab, and your grapple check becomes +32 plus the Elephant's base STR, so somewhere around +42 grapple check modifier at 14th level. It's just silly. Of course it leaves a halfling taking an XP penalty for pretty much his whole career...
blood_kite 08-04-06, 01:28 PM	Elephant's don't have Improved Grab, they have Trample.
Lomiat 08-04-06, 02:47 PM	Hmm... I thought they did. Oh, well. That's what I get for inventing stuff without the source books handy. Originally, the build is for a min-maxed Half-Orc barbarian who goes into Bear Warrior because I'm pretty darned sure that Brown Bears and Dire Bears have Improved Grab.... (Of course Dire Bear bear warriors have Improved Grab on the other side of the high-level campaign for LG.)
Paul H 08-04-06, 07:54 PM	Hi Hmmm. Troll. Verrrrry Nice! Had considered Dire Ape (effectively same Strength), but Troll much better Con. If you need Troll just for Str/Con/Size bonuses, then you don't need a PrC. If you want the full Extraordinary Abilities, then Druid 5/Master Many Forms 7. You now Regenerate & can Rend. However, you can only cast up to 3rd Lvl Spells, even though you're 12th Lvl. Your Animal Companion also suffers. Druid 8/Barbarian 1 in Troll form has minimum 104 HP. Your choice whether to Gtr Magic Fang & benefit all Natural attacks (no rend), or use manufactured weapon. My favourite is Gt Sword. Druid/barbarian also offers 'exotic' cavalry choices. You could be shifted into troll (lge giant), riding Giant Crocodile (Huge Animal). If you can't get access to crocs as companion, then summon one (Nature's Ally IV), though you'll suffer usual penalties for no saddle. (You can also ride your Dire Bat companion whilst a Troll, but costs you 5th lvl spell - Animal Growth) That's the problem with Druids - so many choices! Lastly, don't forget that (Druid 7th), Summon Nature's Ally IV also includes Unicorns. Free healing & poison cure! Cheers Paul H
Oogar 08-04-06, 08:52 PM	Any particular way you are planning to turn into a Troll without levels of Master of Many Forms?
Paul H 08-04-06, 09:20 PM	Hi Oops! Forgot that Druids don't get Giant type for shifting. (Just Large at 8th). So yes - 2 levels of Master Many Forms reqd for Troll. But Dire Ape still gives same effective strength, just low Con. (Dire Ape 14, Troll 23). Dire Apes are option for 8th lvl Druids. Still fancy Dire Ape with Gt Sword riding Animal Growth'd (Grown?) Dire Bat! Druid 9, (Immune to poison),with Feats: Natural Spell, Lion's Pounce, so it can full attack on charge, cast spells in animal form, etc. (Just noticed unenhanced Large Rhino [Druid 8] does 6d6+36 on charge)! Cheers Paul H (Still writing at 2.20am local)!