Shock and Awe [Archive] - Wizards Community

Shock and Awe [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ezreal2001
10-10-06, 02:14 AM Recently, one of my PCs picked up access to the "Shock and Awe" spell from SpC.

As I understand it, my PC can use it during the surprise round to force a flat footed opponent to take a -10 penalty to their next initiative roll.

While I'm aware that only those acting in the surprise round are able to roll for initiative round, I'm not entirely sure of what other factors are involved in using this spell - inparticular what happens to those who still yet to act in the surprise round.

J
Timlagor
10-10-06, 06:47 AM I don't think it affects anyone who is going to be acting in the Surprise Round. However it is an Immediate spell iirc so you *might* be allowed to cast it before anyone rolls initiative.
pedr
10-10-06, 07:44 AM This is one area where (in my experiences) most LG judges don't strictly follow the RAW because it's seldom important. As you are aware, by the RAW, when there's a surprise round, only those who can act in the surprise round roll intitiative. However it'd probably be wise to plan on spending five or ten minutes at the start of each session explaining this to a DM who will probably be far more used to having all combatants rolling intiative at the same time then simply skipping the ones who are surprised.

A similar problem exists for Marshalls with the Dex-boost aura, though most of them are likely to keep that active continually. When I'm judging a table with a Dex-boost Marshall I'll make the initiative rolls separate however, as that way the Marshall has to maintain his existing aura until the first full round if he wants surprised allies to get the initiative bonus.

Shock and Awe is a swift action to cast, and expressly says it is only castable during a surprise round. It has no effect on non-surprised combatants who have yet to act as their 'next initiative check' will be more than 1 round later.
kjenks
10-10-06, 09:34 AM I don't think it affects anyone who is going to be acting in the Surprise Round. However it is an Immediate spell iirc so you *might* be allowed to cast it before anyone rolls initiative.

Your first instinct was correct. Here's the sequence of events:

SRD
===
HOW COMBAT WORKS

Combat is cyclical; everybody acts in turn in a regular cycle of rounds. Combat follows this sequence:

1. Each combatant starts out flat-footed. Once a combatant acts, he or she is no longer flat-footed.

2. Determine which characters are aware of their opponents at the start of the battle. If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds of combat begin. The combatants who are aware of the opponents can act in the surprise round, so they roll for initiative. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take one action (either a standard action or a move action) during the surprise round. Combatants who were unaware do not get to act in the surprise round. If no one or everyone starts the battle aware, there is no surprise round.

3. Combatants who have not yet rolled initiative do so. All combatants are now ready to begin their first regular round of combat.

4. Combatants act in initiative order (highest to lowest).

5. When everyone has had a turn, the combatant with the highest initiative acts again, and steps 4 and 5 repeat until combat ends.
===

So look carefully at steps 2 and 3. "The combatants who are aware of the opponents can act in the surprise round, so they roll for initiative." Hopefully, you have cranked up your Spot and/or Listen skills so you're in that group. Everybody who is in that group rolls init before anybody can act. So Shock and Awe (and other effects which affect initiative) can only apply to the initiative rolls of characters who are NOT in that group because those characters have not yet rolled initiative. (They don't roll until step 3.)

An initiative roll is a dexterity check, so effects which modify dexterity scores, dexterity checks or all ability checks will affect the initiative check. Other effects which can affect initiative:

- a marshal's minor aura of Motivate Dexterity
- Cat's Grace (and Mass Cat's Grace)
- Guidance
- Bestow Curse
- Crushing Despair
- Eyebite
- Good Hope
- Ray of Clumbsiness or anything that gives a penalty to dexterity or causes dexterity damage
- Symbol of Pain
- fear conditions (shaken, frightened, panicked)
- Entangle spell or tanglefoot bag or anything that causes the creature to be entangled
- Ghoul Touch, Unholy Blight or anything that causes the creature to be sickened
- Enervation or anything that causes the creature to be energy drained or have negative levels
- Heal (removes many of those conditions)
- Pale green Ioun stone
- Stone of Good Luck (Luckstone)
The_Jester
10-10-06, 04:24 PM So, to clarify, the spell is only useful in those oh so rare opportunities when the party isn't surprised but one or more of the enemies are.
pedr
10-10-06, 05:29 PM Well, it's useful in those occasions where the spellcaster in the party isn't surprised and one or more of the enemies are. It might work well with Feign Surprise.
kjenks
10-10-06, 06:26 PM An Arcane Trickster with the Feign Surprise card would love this spell.
ezreal2001
10-10-06, 07:05 PM Well, it's useful in those occasions where the spellcaster in the party isn't surprised and one or more of the enemies are. It might work well with Feign Surprise.

I've got the Feign Surprise card, the PC in question is a Rogue/Ranger archer mutt with a level of Wizard and has +10 on his initiative, Listen +25 and Spot +29.

He often wins surprise rounds.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ezreal2001 10-10-06, 02:14 AM	Recently, one of my PCs picked up access to the "Shock and Awe" spell from SpC. As I understand it, my PC can use it during the surprise round to force a flat footed opponent to take a -10 penalty to their next initiative roll. While I'm aware that only those acting in the surprise round are able to roll for initiative round, I'm not entirely sure of what other factors are involved in using this spell - inparticular what happens to those who still yet to act in the surprise round. J
Timlagor 10-10-06, 06:47 AM	I don't think it affects anyone who is going to be acting in the Surprise Round. However it is an Immediate spell iirc so you might be allowed to cast it before anyone rolls initiative.
pedr 10-10-06, 07:44 AM	This is one area where (in my experiences) most LG judges don't strictly follow the RAW because it's seldom important. As you are aware, by the RAW, when there's a surprise round, only those who can act in the surprise round roll intitiative. However it'd probably be wise to plan on spending five or ten minutes at the start of each session explaining this to a DM who will probably be far more used to having all combatants rolling intiative at the same time then simply skipping the ones who are surprised. A similar problem exists for Marshalls with the Dex-boost aura, though most of them are likely to keep that active continually. When I'm judging a table with a Dex-boost Marshall I'll make the initiative rolls separate however, as that way the Marshall has to maintain his existing aura until the first full round if he wants surprised allies to get the initiative bonus. Shock and Awe is a swift action to cast, and expressly says it is only castable during a surprise round. It has no effect on non-surprised combatants who have yet to act as their 'next initiative check' will be more than 1 round later.
kjenks 10-10-06, 09:34 AM	I don't think it affects anyone who is going to be acting in the Surprise Round. However it is an Immediate spell iirc so you might be allowed to cast it before anyone rolls initiative. Your first instinct was correct. Here's the sequence of events: SRD === HOW COMBAT WORKS Combat is cyclical; everybody acts in turn in a regular cycle of rounds. Combat follows this sequence: 1. Each combatant starts out flat-footed. Once a combatant acts, he or she is no longer flat-footed. 2. Determine which characters are aware of their opponents at the start of the battle. If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds of combat begin. The combatants who are aware of the opponents can act in the surprise round, so they roll for initiative. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take one action (either a standard action or a move action) during the surprise round. Combatants who were unaware do not get to act in the surprise round. If no one or everyone starts the battle aware, there is no surprise round. 3. Combatants who have not yet rolled initiative do so. All combatants are now ready to begin their first regular round of combat. 4. Combatants act in initiative order (highest to lowest). 5. When everyone has had a turn, the combatant with the highest initiative acts again, and steps 4 and 5 repeat until combat ends. === So look carefully at steps 2 and 3. "The combatants who are aware of the opponents can act in the surprise round, so they roll for initiative." Hopefully, you have cranked up your Spot and/or Listen skills so you're in that group. Everybody who is in that group rolls init before anybody can act. So Shock and Awe (and other effects which affect initiative) can only apply to the initiative rolls of characters who are NOT in that group because those characters have not yet rolled initiative. (They don't roll until step 3.) An initiative roll is a dexterity check, so effects which modify dexterity scores, dexterity checks or all ability checks will affect the initiative check. Other effects which can affect initiative: - a marshal's minor aura of Motivate Dexterity - Cat's Grace (and Mass Cat's Grace) - Guidance - Bestow Curse - Crushing Despair - Eyebite - Good Hope - Ray of Clumbsiness or anything that gives a penalty to dexterity or causes dexterity damage - Symbol of Pain - fear conditions (shaken, frightened, panicked) - Entangle spell or tanglefoot bag or anything that causes the creature to be entangled - Ghoul Touch, Unholy Blight or anything that causes the creature to be sickened - Enervation or anything that causes the creature to be energy drained or have negative levels - Heal (removes many of those conditions) - Pale green Ioun stone - Stone of Good Luck (Luckstone)
The_Jester 10-10-06, 04:24 PM	So, to clarify, the spell is only useful in those oh so rare opportunities when the party isn't surprised but one or more of the enemies are.
pedr 10-10-06, 05:29 PM	Well, it's useful in those occasions where the spellcaster in the party isn't surprised and one or more of the enemies are. It might work well with Feign Surprise.
kjenks 10-10-06, 06:26 PM	An Arcane Trickster with the Feign Surprise card would love this spell.
ezreal2001 10-10-06, 07:05 PM	Well, it's useful in those occasions where the spellcaster in the party isn't surprised and one or more of the enemies are. It might work well with Feign Surprise. I've got the Feign Surprise card, the PC in question is a Rogue/Ranger archer mutt with a level of Wizard and has +10 on his initiative, Listen +25 and Spot +29. He often wins surprise rounds.