Size Increase on Reach Weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Size Increase on Reach Weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gumbymoto
08-03-06, 06:26 PM When a character with a reach weapon such as a spiked chain is enlarged their equipment also sizes up.

What is the effect on the reach of a spiked chain when a character becomes large and then huge through spells or other means?

Is their a progression it goes through, such as adding 5' to the reach for each progressive size increase or would it double for each increase?
Herrbard
08-03-06, 08:01 PM When a character with a reach weapon such as a spiked chain is enlarged their equipment also sizes up.

What is the effect on the reach of a spiked chain when a character becomes large and then huge through spells or other means?

Is their a progression it goes through, such as adding 5' to the reach for each progressive size increase or would it double for each increase?
The Enlarge Person spell tells the tale: the reach doubles (10 ft. to 20 ft.). However, multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack (like having Enlarge Person cast on you, then having righteous might cast on you).
Gumbymoto
08-04-06, 12:39 PM Can a character that is large (such as a 6th level centaur) wield two normal spiked chains one in each hand since they would be effectively light weapons only a -2 to hit if this character has the two weapons feat?
Howie23
08-04-06, 01:20 PM Can a character that is large (such as a 6th level centaur) wield two normal spiked chains one in each hand since they would be effectively light weapons only a -2 to hit if this character has the two weapons feat?

Medium sized spiked chains can be weilded one handed by a large creature but it isn't a particularly effective choice. The weapons become one-handed, not light. So, they are -4 to hit with TWF. They are also the wrong size, so pick up a -2 penalty, for a net of -6.

The large creature would have 10 foot reach only. "A reach weapon doubles its wielder’s natural reach, but only if the weapon is at least of an appropriate size for the wielder. Wielding a “too-small” reach weapon grants no reach. An ogre (Large) wielding a Medium or smaller reach weapon gains no reach from the weapon, and could thus attack foes either 5 feet or 10 feet distant (as normal for a Large creature wielding a non-reach weapon)." (FAQ 7/19/06, p.32). Damage would be 2d4 base. The weapon could be used to trip, and would gain +2 to disarm.

Compare to the same creature using two large sized flails. He TWF's with one handed weapons at -4 instead of -6, gets the same trip ability and disarm advantage, and does 2d6 damage instead of 2d4. All without spending the feat on Spiked Chain.

David
chesspiece
08-04-06, 01:27 PM Can a character that is large (such as a 6th level centaur) wield two normal spiked chains one in each hand since they would be effectively light weapons only a -2 to hit if this character has the two weapons feat?

See the FAQ
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Main35FAQv07192006.zip

Q "How do reach weapons work if they are of a different size than the creature wielding them?"
A "A reach weapon doubles its wielder's natural reach, but only if the weapon is at least of an appropriate size for the wielder. Wielding a "too-small" reach weapon grants no reach."

So the large character could wield them, but would not gain reach beyond their normal. There aren't many 1-Handed reach weapons. There's an oriental 1-H reach weapon in the DMG, but I haven't heard of it in LG. And of course the varieties of whips.

Cheers,

Stephen Martin
paigeoliver
08-07-06, 03:41 PM I read all of this and still missed something.

I have a medium sized character that uses a whip (15, reach). He has been enlarged twice. One GM said I had 30' reach the other said it was 20'. Which is it?
Japangirl
08-07-06, 06:47 PM You only have 20 ft reach with a whip. It's not a reach weapon, but a "treated as a melee weapon with 15 foot reach", which means it's not a reach weapon. So your natural reach doubles (from 5 ft to 10 ft) and you add the 15 ft from the whip.

Whips are really pretty awful weapons. They don't threaten, they don't do damage if someone has any armor at all, and using it provokes and AO like you were using a bow. All it does is trip and disarm, and spiked chains are superior for that.
clik_ml
08-07-06, 07:16 PM You only have 20 ft reach with a whip. It's not a reach weapon, but a "treated as a melee weapon with 15 foot reach", which means it's not a reach weapon.

I don't think that logically follows. Reach weapons are treated as reach weapons. The reason it was "treated as" was due to the unusual 15'-ness of it and the other special cases like not threatening. It even strongly implies whips are reach weapons with the phrase "unlike most other weapons with reach."

The last nail in the coffin, the superscript in the PHB and SRD notes that whips are reach weapons.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#whip

So by this doubling mechanic (which I detest) a medium character with a whip who becomes enlarged snags 30' reach.

- Erik ML

[edit: typoes, and I hate WotC's linking script]
Arvagor
08-07-06, 10:17 PM All it does is trip and disarm, and spiked chains are superior for that.If all you're using it for is to trip and disarm, then mechanically-speaking, they're the same. The question becomes, do you want to make AoOs with the weapon, or do you want greater reach?
clik_ml
08-08-06, 01:03 AM Ehhh, I dunno about that.

Spiked Chains get +4 on disarm checks for being two-handed weapons. That's something of an advantage.

For tripping however there is no difference on bonuses so there is strong incentive to TWF with two whips since the penalty is just on your touch attack (which you had better be hitting with anyway), and an extra trip check rocks.

Whips become relevant when you find an exotic weapon like a whip dagger or somesuch which actually lets you damage stuff with it. Then it becomes an honest-to-gosh decent weapon. I was sorely tempted to buy a really expensive exotic weapon for my bard which was a long sword which could convert into a whip dagger. Broke my heart when I found out that access was errata'd away. Oh well.

An enlarged marshal TWFing whipper-tripper could really control the battlefield I reckon. A centaur whip-triper would pretty much make anything with legs fall down. That would be fun to see.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gumbymoto 08-03-06, 06:26 PM	When a character with a reach weapon such as a spiked chain is enlarged their equipment also sizes up. What is the effect on the reach of a spiked chain when a character becomes large and then huge through spells or other means? Is their a progression it goes through, such as adding 5' to the reach for each progressive size increase or would it double for each increase?
Herrbard 08-03-06, 08:01 PM	When a character with a reach weapon such as a spiked chain is enlarged their equipment also sizes up. What is the effect on the reach of a spiked chain when a character becomes large and then huge through spells or other means? Is their a progression it goes through, such as adding 5' to the reach for each progressive size increase or would it double for each increase? The Enlarge Person spell tells the tale: the reach doubles (10 ft. to 20 ft.). However, multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack (like having Enlarge Person cast on you, then having righteous might cast on you).
Gumbymoto 08-04-06, 12:39 PM	Can a character that is large (such as a 6th level centaur) wield two normal spiked chains one in each hand since they would be effectively light weapons only a -2 to hit if this character has the two weapons feat?
Howie23 08-04-06, 01:20 PM	Can a character that is large (such as a 6th level centaur) wield two normal spiked chains one in each hand since they would be effectively light weapons only a -2 to hit if this character has the two weapons feat? Medium sized spiked chains can be weilded one handed by a large creature but it isn't a particularly effective choice. The weapons become one-handed, not light. So, they are -4 to hit with TWF. They are also the wrong size, so pick up a -2 penalty, for a net of -6. The large creature would have 10 foot reach only. "A reach weapon doubles its wielder’s natural reach, but only if the weapon is at least of an appropriate size for the wielder. Wielding a “too-small” reach weapon grants no reach. An ogre (Large) wielding a Medium or smaller reach weapon gains no reach from the weapon, and could thus attack foes either 5 feet or 10 feet distant (as normal for a Large creature wielding a non-reach weapon)." (FAQ 7/19/06, p.32). Damage would be 2d4 base. The weapon could be used to trip, and would gain +2 to disarm. Compare to the same creature using two large sized flails. He TWF's with one handed weapons at -4 instead of -6, gets the same trip ability and disarm advantage, and does 2d6 damage instead of 2d4. All without spending the feat on Spiked Chain. David
chesspiece 08-04-06, 01:27 PM	Can a character that is large (such as a 6th level centaur) wield two normal spiked chains one in each hand since they would be effectively light weapons only a -2 to hit if this character has the two weapons feat? See the FAQ http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Main35FAQv07192006.zip Q "How do reach weapons work if they are of a different size than the creature wielding them?" A "A reach weapon doubles its wielder's natural reach, but only if the weapon is at least of an appropriate size for the wielder. Wielding a "too-small" reach weapon grants no reach." So the large character could wield them, but would not gain reach beyond their normal. There aren't many 1-Handed reach weapons. There's an oriental 1-H reach weapon in the DMG, but I haven't heard of it in LG. And of course the varieties of whips. Cheers, Stephen Martin
paigeoliver 08-07-06, 03:41 PM	I read all of this and still missed something. I have a medium sized character that uses a whip (15, reach). He has been enlarged twice. One GM said I had 30' reach the other said it was 20'. Which is it?
Japangirl 08-07-06, 06:47 PM	You only have 20 ft reach with a whip. It's not a reach weapon, but a "treated as a melee weapon with 15 foot reach", which means it's not a reach weapon. So your natural reach doubles (from 5 ft to 10 ft) and you add the 15 ft from the whip. Whips are really pretty awful weapons. They don't threaten, they don't do damage if someone has any armor at all, and using it provokes and AO like you were using a bow. All it does is trip and disarm, and spiked chains are superior for that.
clik_ml 08-07-06, 07:16 PM	You only have 20 ft reach with a whip. It's not a reach weapon, but a "treated as a melee weapon with 15 foot reach", which means it's not a reach weapon. I don't think that logically follows. Reach weapons are treated as reach weapons. The reason it was "treated as" was due to the unusual 15'-ness of it and the other special cases like not threatening. It even strongly implies whips are reach weapons with the phrase "unlike most other weapons with reach." The last nail in the coffin, the superscript in the PHB and SRD notes that whips are reach weapons. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#whip So by this doubling mechanic (which I detest) a medium character with a whip who becomes enlarged snags 30' reach. - Erik ML [edit: typoes, and I hate WotC's linking script]
Arvagor 08-07-06, 10:17 PM	All it does is trip and disarm, and spiked chains are superior for that.If all you're using it for is to trip and disarm, then mechanically-speaking, they're the same. The question becomes, do you want to make AoOs with the weapon, or do you want greater reach?
clik_ml 08-08-06, 01:03 AM	Ehhh, I dunno about that. Spiked Chains get +4 on disarm checks for being two-handed weapons. That's something of an advantage. For tripping however there is no difference on bonuses so there is strong incentive to TWF with two whips since the penalty is just on your touch attack (which you had better be hitting with anyway), and an extra trip check rocks. Whips become relevant when you find an exotic weapon like a whip dagger or somesuch which actually lets you damage stuff with it. Then it becomes an honest-to-gosh decent weapon. I was sorely tempted to buy a really expensive exotic weapon for my bard which was a long sword which could convert into a whip dagger. Broke my heart when I found out that access was errata'd away. Oh well. An enlarged marshal TWFing whipper-tripper could really control the battlefield I reckon. A centaur whip-triper would pretty much make anything with legs fall down. That would be fun to see.