So which would you pick? [Archive] - Wizards Community

So which would you pick? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
trollbill
09-05-06, 12:23 PM I have a Sor3 with access to three very useful items, but will only be able to afford 1 before I lose access. Which one would you take?

1) Wand of Magic Missiles (CL 3). This is obviously a very useful combat item, allowing me to always be able to contribute to every battle with magic. But I am a Sorcerer, so I seldom run out of spells and Magic Missile is one of my known spells, and this is probably a fairly common item on ARs.

2) Heward's Handy Haversack. I have a 14 Strength so can carry a fair amount already, but I regularly find myself wanting to carry more. Being able to retrieve a wide variety of mundane, alchemical and lesser magical items with only a move action can be very useful at times. Out of the items listed, this one would hold its worth the most as I get into higher levels.

3) Wand of Silent Charm Person (CL 3). With a save DC of only 12, it's unlikely this item would have much combat use (especially since foes in combat would get a +5 on their saves) and will be mostly useless at higher levels. It would probably only be useful for getting low level NPCs to cooperate with the party, but I usually can do this already with a combination of Bluff and Disguise Self. Still, it's nice it can be used discretely due to the Silent, Charm Person is not one of my known spells and this particular item is unlikely to show up on an AR again.
Oogar
09-05-06, 12:29 PM I would vote Haversack. Or, if weight is really not an issue, just keep saving for your charisma cloak.
kenobi65
09-05-06, 01:12 PM The Haversack. In the 20-odd ARs I've gotten, I've never seen access to one.
Mommy was an Orc
09-05-06, 01:20 PM Haversack. The big advantage of a Haversack, especially for a caster, is that you can get a relatively wide variety of 25-50 gp items into it that are generally on par with spending 45 gp a shot for a 3rd level caster wand. Especially the weighty ones that completely mess up encumbrance or cause other problems.

i.e. Alchemist's Fire, Tanglefoot bags, Flasks of Oil to follow up on the Alchemist's Fire, Smokesticks, etc...
trollbill
09-05-06, 01:36 PM The Haversack. In the 20-odd ARs I've gotten, I've never seen access to one.

Heh, ironically this is the second time I've gotten access to it in only 10 ARs. In fact, the reason I can buy one of the above items is because I had been saving up to purchase the one I'd gotten previous access to before it expired at the end of the adventure I got access to it again on.
Japangirl
09-05-06, 02:44 PM Haversack. You can always cast spells at people from your personal list, and where else are you going to carry all your ill-gotten gains except in extradimensional space? More carrying capacity is also always nice, for those mods where you see a heap of coins/gems/loot and want to take as many as possible with you. Also, people can't scry an object if it's not technically on this plane.
paigeoliver
09-05-06, 11:24 PM I wouldn't buy any of them. Buy a donkey or hire the trained or untrained servant from the PHB equipment list if you need extra carrying capacity.
Nerax
09-06-06, 12:38 AM Go with the Haversack. Being able to pull items out as a move action has saved myself and my party members necks several times.
GreatSiron
09-07-06, 08:17 PM I'd say I'd have to vote none of them as well. The wands are mostly useless and the Haversack is for people who like to carry every alchemist item in the PHB, im mulitples. (Like my rogue)
JosephKell
09-07-06, 11:46 PM I'd say I'd have to vote none of them as well. The wands are mostly useless and the Haversack is for people who like to carry every alchemist item in the PHB, im mulitples. (Like my rogue)Magic Missile don't give a save, but the damage for CL 3 is 2d4+2 (avg 7).

Handy Haversack can be helpful... fragile things don't take damage inside it. If you find yourself carrying a lot of stuff, take the Haversack.

Charm wand is terrible, don't bother. Now if it were a Wand of Glitterdust it would be useful for outlining invisibles (DC is 13 for Wand of Glitterdust), but not for blinding. You could practically Glitter the party! (But Warrior Muts that never get the third level Will save boost are gonna cry when they fail, so I would try not to glitter them.)
Reylance
09-08-06, 01:55 PM Take none of them. Save your money for something better.

The HHH is the best among the choices, but no one really pays attention to encumberance.
trollbill
09-08-06, 02:29 PM Take none of them. Save your money for something better.

The HHH is the best among the choices, but no one really pays attention to encumberance.

So you are suggesting I lie about my encumbrance because the nature of the game makes it easy to get away with such a lie?
GreatSiron
09-08-06, 02:37 PM So you are suggesting I lie about my encumbrance because the nature of the game makes it easy to get away with such a lie?

Nobody's telling you to cheat, its that most DM's don't usually ask you about how much you are carrying. If you are really worried, get a mule.
trollbill
09-08-06, 02:53 PM Nobody's telling you to cheat, its that most DM's don't usually ask you about how much you are carrying. If you are really worried, get a mule.

While I agree most DM's don't usually ask you about how much you are carrying, the reason most DMs I know of don't ask isn't because they don't care. Most don't ask you about it because they expect you to be honest enough to keep track of it yourself. Just like most DMs don't audit your ARs because they expect you to be honest enough to keep track of them yourself.

The biggest advantage to the HHH isn't the encumbrance so much as it is the Move Action that doesn't provoke an AoO to put anything you have in your hand.
Mommy was an Orc
09-08-06, 03:21 PM TWhile I agree most DM's don't usually ask you about how much you are carrying, the reason most DMs I know of don't ask isn't because they don't care. Most don't ask you about it because they expect you to be honest enough to keep track of it yourself. Just like most DMs don't audit your ARs because they expect you to be honest enough to keep track of them yourself.

The biggest advantage to the HHH isn't the encumbrance so much as it is the Move Action that doesn't provoke an AoO to put anything you have in your hand.

I agree - the reasons DM don't ask questions about certain things is they are assuming you're being honest about it. If someone tells me they rolled a natural 20 on a to-hit roll, I don't assume they're lying about it unless they give me good cause to not believe them. Same thing goes for encumbrance.

Encumbrance is a big one as well - a lot of characters are shaky at staying under light encumbrance. Especially Str 15- light infantry, Str 12- Rogues, and Str 8- Wizards(assuming medium, subtract about 2-3 if small)

Simply having a chain shirt, buckler, a longspear, a morningstar, and longsword is 49 lbs of encumbrance, threatening to put a 14 Str character over the limit.
trollbill
09-08-06, 03:34 PM Tell me about it. I've also have a 1st-level Grey Elf Druid with a STR 6. That lets me wear my leather armor and carry a shortbow and quiver with arrows...and that's it. Good thing I have an Animal Companion to pack the rest of it on. At second level I am taking a level of Wizard so I have to drop the armor. Then I can actually carry a melee weapon and switch from shortbow to light crossbow to get away from that strength penalty to damage.
Iswald
09-09-06, 09:35 AM 3) Wand of Silent Charm Person (CL 3). With a save DC of only 12, it's unlikely this item would have much combat use (especially since foes in combat would get a +5 on their saves) and will be mostly useless at higher levels. It would probably only be useful for getting low level NPCs to cooperate with the party, but I usually can do this already with a combination of Bluff and Disguise Self. Still, it's nice it can be used discretely due to the Silent, Charm Person is not one of my known spells and this particular item is unlikely to show up on an AR again.

Oddly, I'd been thinking about how silent would work with a wand some weeks ago. You still have to use the command word and point the wand. But, maybe it can be used when silenced? All-in-all, its value seems dubious.

Like almost everyone else, I'd pick up the HHH.
DerekSTheRed
09-09-06, 01:22 PM Like almost everyone else, I'd pick up the HHH.

The only reason to not choose the HHH is if you've got (or plan on getting) Craft Woundrous Item. Almost every wizard/sorcerer character I know has Craft Wondrous Item but I've yet to meet someone with Craft Wand. If so, I would get the wand of magic missiles and craft the HHH later. If you don't plan on getting Craft Wondrous Item then get the HHH.

Derek
Mommy was an Orc
09-09-06, 02:07 PM HHH requires Leomund's Secret Chest, a mostly useless spell for LG purposes, that costs 5050 gp in foci. You also can't craft it until 9th level, if you have access...

The only reason to not choose the HHH is if you've got (or plan on getting) Craft Woundrous Item. Almost every wizard/sorcerer character I know has Craft Wondrous Item but I've yet to meet someone with Craft Wand. If so, I would get the wand of magic missiles and craft the HHH later. If you don't plan on getting Craft Wondrous Item then get the HHH.

Derek
duhtroll
09-10-06, 10:35 AM I vote HHH as well, as it's one of the best items in the game for anyone who wants to use potions or scrolls or magic items or mundane items or . . .
DerekSTheRed
09-10-06, 09:54 PM HHH requires Leomund's Secret Chest, a mostly useless spell for LG purposes, that costs 5050 gp in foci. You also can't craft it until 9th level, if you have access...

My point was that he does have access so the option is available to him. Although now that I think of it your probably right. A sorcerer wouldn't want to learn Leomund's Secret Chest. Crafting the HHH is a much better option for a wizard.

Derek
Rerednaw
09-13-06, 01:34 PM I have a Sor3 with access to three...which one would you take?

1) Wand of Magic Missiles (CL 3).

2) Heward's Handy Haversack. I have a 14 Strength so can carry a fair amount already, but I regularly find myself wanting to carry more. Being able to retrieve a wide variety of mundane, alchemical and lesser magical items with only a move action can be very useful at times. Out of the items listed, this one would hold its worth the most as I get into higher levels.

3) Wand of Silent Charm Person (CL 3).

Sounds like you already have decided given the cons about #1 and #3. IMHO out of the 3 the H3 is by far the more useful. Move action retrieval (huge), much larger carrying capacity (good). Charm is in a wand is very subpar as APLs scale up and Magic Missile you will get almost anywhere.

Besides you always need a place for your stuff so you can fill it up with...more stuff!
trollbill
09-13-06, 02:13 PM Sounds like you already have decided given the cons about #1 and #3. IMHO out of the 3 the H3 is by far the more useful. Move action retrieval (huge), much larger carrying capacity (good). Charm is in a wand is very subpar as APLs scale up and Magic Missile you will get almost anywhere.

Besides you always need a place for your stuff so you can fill it up with...more stuff!

Yes, I had (mostly) decided upon the HHH already but wanted to verify my thinking with more experienced LG players. I did end up taking the HHH. Ironically enough, I played Fane of the Drow right after that and can now afford the Wand of MM, as well. But now I have to decide whether to buy the wand or fill the HHH with alchemical items (I have access to a few non-standard ones), scrolls and other goodies. I will probably go with the goodies since it increases my versatility more and sorcerers can always use that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
trollbill 09-05-06, 12:23 PM	I have a Sor3 with access to three very useful items, but will only be able to afford 1 before I lose access. Which one would you take? 1) Wand of Magic Missiles (CL 3). This is obviously a very useful combat item, allowing me to always be able to contribute to every battle with magic. But I am a Sorcerer, so I seldom run out of spells and Magic Missile is one of my known spells, and this is probably a fairly common item on ARs. 2) Heward's Handy Haversack. I have a 14 Strength so can carry a fair amount already, but I regularly find myself wanting to carry more. Being able to retrieve a wide variety of mundane, alchemical and lesser magical items with only a move action can be very useful at times. Out of the items listed, this one would hold its worth the most as I get into higher levels. 3) Wand of Silent Charm Person (CL 3). With a save DC of only 12, it's unlikely this item would have much combat use (especially since foes in combat would get a +5 on their saves) and will be mostly useless at higher levels. It would probably only be useful for getting low level NPCs to cooperate with the party, but I usually can do this already with a combination of Bluff and Disguise Self. Still, it's nice it can be used discretely due to the Silent, Charm Person is not one of my known spells and this particular item is unlikely to show up on an AR again.
Oogar 09-05-06, 12:29 PM	I would vote Haversack. Or, if weight is really not an issue, just keep saving for your charisma cloak.
kenobi65 09-05-06, 01:12 PM	The Haversack. In the 20-odd ARs I've gotten, I've never seen access to one.
Mommy was an Orc 09-05-06, 01:20 PM	Haversack. The big advantage of a Haversack, especially for a caster, is that you can get a relatively wide variety of 25-50 gp items into it that are generally on par with spending 45 gp a shot for a 3rd level caster wand. Especially the weighty ones that completely mess up encumbrance or cause other problems. i.e. Alchemist's Fire, Tanglefoot bags, Flasks of Oil to follow up on the Alchemist's Fire, Smokesticks, etc...
trollbill 09-05-06, 01:36 PM	The Haversack. In the 20-odd ARs I've gotten, I've never seen access to one. Heh, ironically this is the second time I've gotten access to it in only 10 ARs. In fact, the reason I can buy one of the above items is because I had been saving up to purchase the one I'd gotten previous access to before it expired at the end of the adventure I got access to it again on.
Japangirl 09-05-06, 02:44 PM	Haversack. You can always cast spells at people from your personal list, and where else are you going to carry all your ill-gotten gains except in extradimensional space? More carrying capacity is also always nice, for those mods where you see a heap of coins/gems/loot and want to take as many as possible with you. Also, people can't scry an object if it's not technically on this plane.
paigeoliver 09-05-06, 11:24 PM	I wouldn't buy any of them. Buy a donkey or hire the trained or untrained servant from the PHB equipment list if you need extra carrying capacity.
Nerax 09-06-06, 12:38 AM	Go with the Haversack. Being able to pull items out as a move action has saved myself and my party members necks several times.
GreatSiron 09-07-06, 08:17 PM	I'd say I'd have to vote none of them as well. The wands are mostly useless and the Haversack is for people who like to carry every alchemist item in the PHB, im mulitples. (Like my rogue)
JosephKell 09-07-06, 11:46 PM	I'd say I'd have to vote none of them as well. The wands are mostly useless and the Haversack is for people who like to carry every alchemist item in the PHB, im mulitples. (Like my rogue)Magic Missile don't give a save, but the damage for CL 3 is 2d4+2 (avg 7). Handy Haversack can be helpful... fragile things don't take damage inside it. If you find yourself carrying a lot of stuff, take the Haversack. Charm wand is terrible, don't bother. Now if it were a Wand of Glitterdust it would be useful for outlining invisibles (DC is 13 for Wand of Glitterdust), but not for blinding. You could practically Glitter the party! (But Warrior Muts that never get the third level Will save boost are gonna cry when they fail, so I would try not to glitter them.)
Reylance 09-08-06, 01:55 PM	Take none of them. Save your money for something better. The HHH is the best among the choices, but no one really pays attention to encumberance.
trollbill 09-08-06, 02:29 PM	Take none of them. Save your money for something better. The HHH is the best among the choices, but no one really pays attention to encumberance. So you are suggesting I lie about my encumbrance because the nature of the game makes it easy to get away with such a lie?
GreatSiron 09-08-06, 02:37 PM	So you are suggesting I lie about my encumbrance because the nature of the game makes it easy to get away with such a lie? Nobody's telling you to cheat, its that most DM's don't usually ask you about how much you are carrying. If you are really worried, get a mule.
trollbill 09-08-06, 02:53 PM	Nobody's telling you to cheat, its that most DM's don't usually ask you about how much you are carrying. If you are really worried, get a mule. While I agree most DM's don't usually ask you about how much you are carrying, the reason most DMs I know of don't ask isn't because they don't care. Most don't ask you about it because they expect you to be honest enough to keep track of it yourself. Just like most DMs don't audit your ARs because they expect you to be honest enough to keep track of them yourself. The biggest advantage to the HHH isn't the encumbrance so much as it is the Move Action that doesn't provoke an AoO to put anything you have in your hand.
Mommy was an Orc 09-08-06, 03:21 PM	TWhile I agree most DM's don't usually ask you about how much you are carrying, the reason most DMs I know of don't ask isn't because they don't care. Most don't ask you about it because they expect you to be honest enough to keep track of it yourself. Just like most DMs don't audit your ARs because they expect you to be honest enough to keep track of them yourself. The biggest advantage to the HHH isn't the encumbrance so much as it is the Move Action that doesn't provoke an AoO to put anything you have in your hand. I agree - the reasons DM don't ask questions about certain things is they are assuming you're being honest about it. If someone tells me they rolled a natural 20 on a to-hit roll, I don't assume they're lying about it unless they give me good cause to not believe them. Same thing goes for encumbrance. Encumbrance is a big one as well - a lot of characters are shaky at staying under light encumbrance. Especially Str 15- light infantry, Str 12- Rogues, and Str 8- Wizards(assuming medium, subtract about 2-3 if small) Simply having a chain shirt, buckler, a longspear, a morningstar, and longsword is 49 lbs of encumbrance, threatening to put a 14 Str character over the limit.
trollbill 09-08-06, 03:34 PM	Tell me about it. I've also have a 1st-level Grey Elf Druid with a STR 6. That lets me wear my leather armor and carry a shortbow and quiver with arrows...and that's it. Good thing I have an Animal Companion to pack the rest of it on. At second level I am taking a level of Wizard so I have to drop the armor. Then I can actually carry a melee weapon and switch from shortbow to light crossbow to get away from that strength penalty to damage.
Iswald 09-09-06, 09:35 AM	3) Wand of Silent Charm Person (CL 3). With a save DC of only 12, it's unlikely this item would have much combat use (especially since foes in combat would get a +5 on their saves) and will be mostly useless at higher levels. It would probably only be useful for getting low level NPCs to cooperate with the party, but I usually can do this already with a combination of Bluff and Disguise Self. Still, it's nice it can be used discretely due to the Silent, Charm Person is not one of my known spells and this particular item is unlikely to show up on an AR again. Oddly, I'd been thinking about how silent would work with a wand some weeks ago. You still have to use the command word and point the wand. But, maybe it can be used when silenced? All-in-all, its value seems dubious. Like almost everyone else, I'd pick up the HHH.
DerekSTheRed 09-09-06, 01:22 PM	Like almost everyone else, I'd pick up the HHH. The only reason to not choose the HHH is if you've got (or plan on getting) Craft Woundrous Item. Almost every wizard/sorcerer character I know has Craft Wondrous Item but I've yet to meet someone with Craft Wand. If so, I would get the wand of magic missiles and craft the HHH later. If you don't plan on getting Craft Wondrous Item then get the HHH. Derek
Mommy was an Orc 09-09-06, 02:07 PM	HHH requires Leomund's Secret Chest, a mostly useless spell for LG purposes, that costs 5050 gp in foci. You also can't craft it until 9th level, if you have access... The only reason to not choose the HHH is if you've got (or plan on getting) Craft Woundrous Item. Almost every wizard/sorcerer character I know has Craft Wondrous Item but I've yet to meet someone with Craft Wand. If so, I would get the wand of magic missiles and craft the HHH later. If you don't plan on getting Craft Wondrous Item then get the HHH. Derek
duhtroll 09-10-06, 10:35 AM	I vote HHH as well, as it's one of the best items in the game for anyone who wants to use potions or scrolls or magic items or mundane items or . . .
DerekSTheRed 09-10-06, 09:54 PM	HHH requires Leomund's Secret Chest, a mostly useless spell for LG purposes, that costs 5050 gp in foci. You also can't craft it until 9th level, if you have access... My point was that he does have access so the option is available to him. Although now that I think of it your probably right. A sorcerer wouldn't want to learn Leomund's Secret Chest. Crafting the HHH is a much better option for a wizard. Derek
Rerednaw 09-13-06, 01:34 PM	I have a Sor3 with access to three...which one would you take? 1) Wand of Magic Missiles (CL 3). 2) Heward's Handy Haversack. I have a 14 Strength so can carry a fair amount already, but I regularly find myself wanting to carry more. Being able to retrieve a wide variety of mundane, alchemical and lesser magical items with only a move action can be very useful at times. Out of the items listed, this one would hold its worth the most as I get into higher levels. 3) Wand of Silent Charm Person (CL 3). Sounds like you already have decided given the cons about #1 and #3. IMHO out of the 3 the H3 is by far the more useful. Move action retrieval (huge), much larger carrying capacity (good). Charm is in a wand is very subpar as APLs scale up and Magic Missile you will get almost anywhere. Besides you always need a place for your stuff so you can fill it up with...more stuff!
trollbill 09-13-06, 02:13 PM	Sounds like you already have decided given the cons about #1 and #3. IMHO out of the 3 the H3 is by far the more useful. Move action retrieval (huge), much larger carrying capacity (good). Charm is in a wand is very subpar as APLs scale up and Magic Missile you will get almost anywhere. Besides you always need a place for your stuff so you can fill it up with...more stuff! Yes, I had (mostly) decided upon the HHH already but wanted to verify my thinking with more experienced LG players. I did end up taking the HHH. Ironically enough, I played Fane of the Drow right after that and can now afford the Wand of MM, as well. But now I have to decide whether to buy the wand or fill the HHH with alchemical items (I have access to a few non-standard ones), scrolls and other goodies. I will probably go with the goodies since it increases my versatility more and sorcerers can always use that.