Post/Author/DateTime	Post
_metz_ 02-16-07, 11:45 PM	1. This aint a rules arguement area, so if you have a spiked chain fighter don't throw things at me, while I think they are a little overpowered, meh, thats not my biggest gripe :) 2. This is mainly a fluff/fantasy arguement, its silly for all fighters to be running around dangling chains in a manner which seems a little too effective and frankly unrealistic 3. Axes are an acceptable substitute, especially if you are a Dwarf or an Orc. We enjoy such weapons in this society. Basically, Holler if you want to join! (Or honk if you are driving past)
RLWilde 02-17-07, 12:16 AM	I've got a Fighter-5 who prefers the lance (one-handed horseback, two-handed on foot), but uses a longsword when a reach weapon is ill-advised. Can he be an honorary member or something?
Morgen 02-17-07, 12:17 AM	You know, I've only seen two people with spike chain fighters. My two characters use swords. I've seen maces, bows, axes, even a great spear too. I'm all for Falchion, though technically I think that we're not using proper Falchions as Falchions.
Akhamshyy 02-17-07, 12:26 AM	I am all for honorable combat with the king of all weapons. Hand me a colichemarde any day, and I'll be happy. Greatswords, hand-and-a-half swords, foils, rapiers, straight blades with double fullers, curved blades with pattern welding. All these wonderful weapons and someone picks up a jagged piece of chain to swing around? Oh well, it is fantasy after all. As for my new dwarf knight, she'll be using the good old waraxe and shield combo.
Japangirl 02-17-07, 12:36 AM	Swords? Such huge and unwieldy weapons! Give me poke-people-in-the-kidneys-and-stab-them-in-the-back daggers anytime!
Simpi 02-17-07, 12:43 AM	Basically, Holler if you want to join! (Or honk if you are driving past) I have a paladin of Heironeous with longsword. Do I qualify? I plan pure sword and boarder fighter (fighter levels only) for Greyhawk ruins though for appearances sake I think I will use morningstar since it's a cool weapon. Is that acceptable? My other tank uses halberd with Spinning Halberd feat. I quess that is slightly different from usual spiked chain or greatsword+barbarian dip you see most of the time. Sampo Haarlaa Naerie Triad
_metz_ 02-17-07, 01:00 AM	These are all accepted! I love deliberately making characters based around what weapons they would use, and hence fully encourage it. BBFS is a state of mind to hark back to the iconic days of fighters with traditional weapons. Line up, bring the lances, maces etc on! (Bit like the NRA incorporates other firearms rather then just rifles, so does BFFS encourage many other fighter weapons)
_metz_ 02-17-07, 01:03 AM	Swords? Such huge and unwieldy weapons! Give me poke-people-in-the-kidneys-and-stab-them-in-the-back daggers anytime! Daggers are also encouraged. Especially if you use them in flamboyant/tricksy ways.
LGMoses 02-17-07, 01:10 AM	What about rogues with short swords? Are rangers that fight with a longsword and a handaxe in? Spears neone?
ranagrande 02-17-07, 01:20 AM	I have two characters with fighter levels. One uses a lance, battleaxe, or crossbow depending on the situation. The other almost exclusively grapples. Going back to the root of your concern however, I've pretty much decided that my next character will be a spiked chain wielding Bard.
Stormydoom 02-17-07, 02:16 AM	I've got a fighter heavily invested in feats for the Bastard sword. No EWP:Bastard Sword but have Weapon focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Spec, next lvl I will be retraining something to Melee Weapon Mastery: Slashing, then a lvl after it's Greater Weapon Spec. He's got a +1 (good aligned) Bastard Sword. And he's a kelanenite with a smite and a quest :). My paladin uses a +1 Starmetal Greatsword and kicks demon butt with it. Planning holy to be added to it.
_metz_ 02-17-07, 02:29 AM	WE aren't really taht discriminating in this group, we just like to encourage the goold ol' fashioned use of weapons and fighters. I mean fireballs are cool, but its iconic to have the Fighter step up and Critical with a greataxe or something. Its just satisfying. This group refers to fighter as a state of mind - not the class of the same name, so rogues, paladins, rangers etc are all welcome! Aragorn didn't use a spiked chain. Thats right, he wasn't even optimised and he whooped ass. Think about it. That makes him cooler.
_metz_ 02-17-07, 02:30 AM	Speaking of which I saw a dwarf cleric of moradin with a spiked chain once. My own cleric of Moradin at the time was tempted to go and bash his head with his Adamantine Warhammer (with built in Holy symbol) for being so unmoradin dwarfy. I want to know which sect of the Soul Forger encourages that!
Cynric 02-17-07, 03:48 AM	Ghu Glainne, Dwarven Fighter\Barbarian reporting for duty with Waraxe and Sheild ready sir!!!!
Lupo 02-17-07, 08:15 AM	Speaking of which I saw a dwarf cleric of moradin with a spiked chain once. My own cleric of Moradin at the time was tempted to go and bash his head with his Adamantine Warhammer (with built in Holy symbol) for being so unmoradin dwarfy. I want to know which sect of the Soul Forger encourages that! damn, that is really stretching the all-to-well-known-immense patience of moradin :P no dwarven clan with any self esteem should let him in their temple ;) ok, i confess, my dakon cohort swings a length of spiky links :rolleyes: (but would easily be able to switch to guisarme:)) but my wood elf ranger/fighter wields a longsword or a guisarme, depending on environment and opportunity yet unplayed: a traditionalist dwarf, complete with dwarven war axe just right now, there is no shortage of frontliners in my assortment of characters or at the regular tables i attend, so he is not likely to be in the campaign soon :rolleyes: ciao martin m.
The_Jester 02-17-07, 09:37 AM	My fighter is a falchion-fighter who dabbles in mounted combat. He's also a big scary Baklunish guy from Zief so the falchion is a culturally appropriate weapon.
Akhamshyy 02-17-07, 10:02 AM	Let us spread the school of the Short Haft! (pp 82 PH2) So that we may all know the glory of the guisarme and still have the honor of 3x critting those who dare step up to face us. Show then the fierce pain of long falls with a sweep of your hooked blade.
solbergb 02-17-07, 11:53 AM	I've seen maybe 3 spike chain fighters in LG ever. I've seen a few others (including my monk for a long time..you can sheathe a chain without a long pole sticking up your back) who carry a chain but aren't proficient, use it mostly as a tripping/AOO weapon to make more out of combat reflexes. for what it is worth, my wife and my characters use: L13 monk: Foot, Guisarme, Grapple, Kama. Very rarely Shuriken, Siangham, spike chain or Nunchuck. L13 cleric: longspear, spiked gauntlet, both very rare L11 sorc: size large warmaces, size large arrows, splash weapons (all for TK), sickle, dagger (both for whirling blade) L8 archer: comp longbows of various sorts, aquatic bow, splash weapons, clubs. In the past he used a trident from time to time, and rarely fist of stone L8 druid: uh...a sling sometimes. L6 stonelord: "Axe on long stick" (Glaive), "Axe" (greataxe)" "Stupid wussy silver thing" (silvered flail), armor spikes. Sometimes she borrows her brother's "Little bitty axes" (dwarf waraxe) for DR penetration, at his urging. Oh yeah, and this here bow that I hardly ever use. L6 warchanter: cold iron and magical silver dwarf waraxes, armor spikes. Very rarely a sap or club or javelins L4 favored soul of Procan: A trident and a couple javelins (duh) and spiked gauntlet. L4 sorceress: Weapons? Why would I ever want to use a weapon? L3 barb/druid: Ranseur and greatsword. rarely a club...and beast claws and stylized ceremonial armor with "spikes" that resemble tiger claws on hands and feet. L3 cleric: "I think I might have a dagger or spiked gauntlet or something" L3 centaur: Longspear and scimitar, javelin and comp longbow. We'll leave the level 1s out. They don't yet have their prefered weapons. So I guess there was a sword in there somewhere.
LGMoses 02-17-07, 12:07 PM	damn, that is really stretching the all-to-well-known-immense patience of moradin :P no dwarven clan with any self esteem should let him in their temple ;) ok, i confess, my dakon cohort swings a length of spiky links :rolleyes: (but would easily be able to switch to guisarme:)) but my wood elf ranger/fighter wields a longsword or a guisarme, depending on environment and opportunity yet unplayed: a traditionalist dwarf, complete with dwarven war axe just right now, there is no shortage of frontliners in my assortment of characters or at the regular tables i attend, so he is not likely to be in the campaign soon :rolleyes: ciao martin m. I had a home campaign world with a whole clan of dwarves once that had WP: Spiked chain and fought with them. It was fun :D
jhorred 02-17-07, 12:13 PM	I have a faux sword and board fighter. He's a fighter 13 with a greatsword and an animated shield.
Lomiat 02-17-07, 01:05 PM	My other tank uses halberd with Spinning Halberd feat. I quess that is slightly different from usual spiked chain or greatsword+barbarian dip you see most of the time. Sampo Haarlaa Naerie Triad Oh, bummer... Here, I thought my fighter would be the first ever to get Spinning Halberd, even though he wouldn't get it until 15th level. Now, though, I'm tempted to change plans and go for Weapon Master (slashing). Still, he's never been bested by a spiked chain tripper, on either side of the combat. The halberd and the guisarme work just fine.
Eric Anondson 02-17-07, 02:40 PM	I have a paladin of Heironeous with longsword. Do I qualify?I'm not sure, I think there is already a "Society of Heironeans for Battle Axes". Quite a few old school Heironeans still upset at the demotion of battle axes equal to longswords within the religion in the Shield Lands. :P I think there are some Trithereon followers who wish longsword and greatclub were equal to spears in their faith, so maybe it all equals out. :D
gomeztoo 02-17-07, 03:09 PM	My main uses almost exclusively exotic weapons, due to the use of Master's Touch. Her weapon of choice is the two-bladed sword. So I guess she qualifies... I'll add though that I did some pretty ok damage last scenario wielding a greatsword. First time I used one, it wasn't so bad, may try it again some day.
Simpi 02-17-07, 03:40 PM	I'm not sure, I think there is already a "Society of Heironeans for Battle Axes". Quite a few old school Heironeans still upset at the demotion of battle axes equal to longswords within the religion in the Shield Lands. :P I only use longsword because I found a nice longsword titled "Blade of the Headlands" from an Onnwal regional. Too bad I never managed to play a follow-up part where I heard it could be upgraded to adamantine. Then again, the supposed module apparently had three encounters with Dreamstealers so maybe it was a good thing. Sampo Haarlaa Naerie Triad
GenghisBob 02-17-07, 08:04 PM	but every one knows Moradin is just Garl in a Beard disguise, so really Dwarves should use Hook Hammers, although Im sure the Chain Dwarf Fighters was Garls idea of a joke at the time. Especailly as he fully expected the Dwarves to all trip them selves up and fall over ;)
GenghisBob 02-17-07, 08:11 PM	My Pcs, L13 uses short swords, saps, guisarme, alchemicals (2WFER) L9 uses large Flail, Lance, Spiked Gauntlets L8 does not own a weapon, he keeps thinking about buying one but forgets....(Arcane Trickster) L6 uses a whip (disarm) and Long Spear (gives good Flank) and recites Hai Ku - never had to hit anyone in anger yet (6th level) L2 uses a guisarme (Tripper and stuff) L2 Long Spear - and nothing else except Spiked gauntlets.
_metz_ 02-17-07, 09:43 PM	Hehehe, well maybe its just my personal experience with local types lol Though I have to admit it, coming across Orc soldiers, pirates, and every second NPC who has a spiked chain is getting a littel bothersome, just for the cinematography...
Tarlyn Alurach 02-17-07, 10:17 PM	WOW!!! I know so many spiked-chain wielding cheese monkey's that it ain't funny. It's really funny to sit there and do something in character and have them ****** off. I even had one try to take control of my character because I ran from giant spiders. I played Fane of the Drow a couple of adventures prior and got my hiney handed to me by the stupid things. Now my rogue/cleric stays away from the stupid things. My rogue uses a rapier and loves to back stab.
Lomiat 02-17-07, 10:23 PM	I've seen plenty of spiked-chain fighters, myself, and nothing says "power gamer" quite so clearly as a spiked-chain fighter.
Southernskies 02-17-07, 11:18 PM	My primary PC from Perrenland use lance and longsword and a buckler (for the 2h power-attack option): Stanton Fioris Staalrijder Rosrijder. 15th level and will retire after his next game (gotta love the spring-attacking mount with Full-Mounted Attack). I have a druid that uses a scimitar. There has been a small uptake in the usage of swords in Ratik, as the only weapons allowed in court are shortswords/longswords/rapiers. Several adventures so far where PCs have had to leave their more exotic toys at the door. It also helps that formal jousting is limited to lances and longswords (depending on the local rules of the host).
LachlarlanIII 02-17-07, 11:52 PM	What about big hammers? I mean really big hammers! Hammers as large as a dwarf's chest is wide! REALLY BIG HAMMERS!
_metz_ 02-18-07, 12:35 AM	Hey I encourage hammerin - I do have a Moradin Cleric (very traditional, even has the Earth Domain and is going to become an Earth Dreamer) As for the new Ratik mods, I REALLY like the court stuff, its interesting to see what the hold the line, combat reflexes spring attacking whirlwind attacker glaive character does when the glaive isn't allowed... I think it should crop up more, I like the rules - If you are a dwarf you are allowed a dress axe, etc, it makes sense, why would you be allowed in a baronial court with a giant spiked chain or a glaive when you are supposed ot be haivng dinner?
Evanta 02-19-07, 12:11 PM	Galen Brightblade, Paladin of Heironeous using a longsword 2-handed, signing up!
cycloptic_squirrel 02-19-07, 02:43 PM	So cool! Can I join with a 1st level barbarian with a large sized Sugliin? Just like one of king arthur's knights, roaming the countryside wielding a ludicruisly large stick with half a dozen antlers attached, high fantasy at it's best! :fight!: What? What do you mean it's not traditional? Fine! I'll start my own club! It'll be much cooler than this one. Then you'll be sorry. You'll see. :allalone:
_metz_ 02-19-07, 06:09 PM	I want that suiglin! lol Hey barbarians are people too. Just angry.
RLWilde 02-19-07, 10:21 PM	(Bit like the NRA incorporates other firearms rather then just rifles, so does BFFS encourage many other fighter weapons) Hmm... "Swords don't kill NPCs. Two-handed Power Attacks with a high strength bonus kills NPCs." Naw, gonna stick with the old line: "Light Warhorse, 75 gp. "Riding saddle, bit, and bridle, 12 gp. "Lance, 10 gp. "Human fighter performing a Spirited Charge as a beginning character in an intro mod, priceless."
Timlagor 02-20-07, 12:37 AM	I flanked* a Dracoliche with my Grey Elf Wizard (Str:6; Con:12+2) using his Spiked Gauntlet on my last adventure... honorary member? * The fact that it only happened because the b***** landed between us and I didn't even take a swing before bugging out (after the fighter took his attack) is completely irrelevant!
_metz_ 02-20-07, 04:57 AM	lol I think if anyone could be bothered we can do up a member list I don't see why not. This post is more for the cinematography of good old fashioned Fantasy RPG. Its the idea "I thought our mission was to kill bad guys cos their skins are green and have fangs and we don't and then take their stuff" Simple. Eloquent. I pay kudos to non optimised funky characters far more than I do to a power build. Especially if its the stock standard powerbuild. Show me a 7 Rogue 1 Dread Pirate 2 Legendary Captain 3 Spymaster and I will give credit to your character lol. (ok thats my Rogue in 5 levels but still you see what I am getting at - character over straight numbers and uniformity)
Alpha_Nerd 02-20-07, 09:35 AM	How does the BBFS feel about Dire Flails?
Paul H 02-20-07, 01:01 PM	Hi All this talk about the Soul Father, but a very UNlawful High Priest (may his beard be ever infested by a thousand fire spiders) sits on the throne of our rightful king! And all this tirade about swords - still think a Shillelagh wielding Druid with Ride by Attack rocks! :D (Duck several oncoming improvised weapons)! But agree to the point of simplifying weapon choices. Cheers Paul H
ithardin 02-20-07, 01:21 PM	HUZZAH! I have also seen a plethora of the spiked chain wielders. Imagine my shock when I open the PHB II pg. 195 and see.... "Regdar undergoes retraining so he can learn how to wield a spiked chain." AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! My Elven PC uses his Bane (Human) Elven Courtblade proudly!
hoosierhayeslpe 02-20-07, 04:45 PM	What about a cowboy / mountain man half orc character that carries a bowie knife? Oh, some people may refer to it as a +1 keen great falchion, but I still think of it as a bowie knife. Sheldomar Kid to the rescue!
_metz_ 02-20-07, 04:53 PM	hehehe bowie knife. I am sooo going to make a ludicrous dual weilding dwarven waraxe or bastard sword character. It will be totally untenable but lots of fun.
AnexCDC 02-21-07, 11:08 AM	I am sooo going to make a ludicrous dual weilding dwarven waraxe or bastard sword character. It will be totally untenable but lots of fun. I am currently building a dwarven Two-Weapon fighter using Oversized Offhand and now that large weapons are allow am going to work Monkey Grip into the build. :D I built this character when I saw Oversized Offhand, because its a running gage in each game that my friends and I play to create AxeBattlier. A character arcatype that we created of a BDF type that uses two freaking HUGE axes.
dg8672 02-21-07, 12:45 PM	Dariush Alen'Baetar, Half-Orc Pious Templar of Al'Akbar, and Corporal in the Gran March Military, reporting for duty - SIR!(raises his falchion in salute) -- Dariush might be my only traditional fighter type. I have: 1 - A dwarf rogue/ftr that uses a heavy flail 2 - A human archer 3 - A human two-weapon fighter wielding picks (he worships Bahamut) 4 - A half-elven sorcerer with a spiked gauntlet and adamantine longspear (he's crazy, what can I say?) But if any of those qualify, they'd like a membership :D
indar 02-21-07, 04:41 PM	*sheepish look* Bahamut worshipper with a heavy pick...
sibyl 02-21-07, 04:46 PM	Can a dual sword weilding Kelanan fanatic join? Cause if it ain't a sword, she ain't fighting with it. Well, daggers are okay.
LGMoses 02-21-07, 10:44 PM	We use longspears to stab at the belly's of giants!!!!
Ramacass 02-22-07, 04:19 AM	Come on..... call it what it is, it's ok. It's the "We hate spike chain club" ;)
_metz_ 02-22-07, 06:26 AM	hate is a strong word. somewhat 'tired' of seeing them, might be more appropirate. Though we are in no control of puritan, new age, or radical members of our movement, that is their own interpretation of the tenets.
LachlarlanIII 02-22-07, 02:42 PM	I think this is more a "We dislike Exotic weapons" club. Most standard fantasy weaponry isn't found in the exotic weapon sections.
Puggle Halfwine 02-22-07, 03:19 PM	Of course, the radical off-shoot (every group has one) will be the guys who attempt to sunder every spiked chain they encounter. No matter the monster the PCs are facing, it will attempt to sunder (or destroy with spells, etc) any spiked chain the PCs are using.
_metz_ 02-22-07, 08:15 PM	lol I might write a mod with that hahahah there are so many item destroying mods, lol Probably ewouldn't get away with one that only tartets certain weapons...
AnexCDC 02-23-07, 12:26 PM	The problem is power attack marginalizes the damage that your weapon is doing, so when you take damage dice out of the picture there are two elements of a weapon to consider: crit value and additional abilities. Most exotic weapons provide 1 damage die bump or 1 crit bump. Obviously here the damage die in light of the previous statement is pointless for a feat, and the crit is nice, but crits are also inherently none reliable. The other benefit that exotic weapons provide is additional abilities. Normally this falls into providing 1 additional ability (+2 disarm, ability to trip, etc) above its martial counter-part. The spike chain is a special situation though, it gains two abilities (disarm & 5 and 10ft threaten) but loses crit (2x instead of 3x). So far there is nothing that makes the spike chain really stand out from the crowd, until.... you introduce the Spiked Chain Master PrC (Exotic Weapon Master). I refer to it as such, since there are no other weapons that you would take 3 lvls of the class with, and very few that you would even take 2, and even further there are some exotic weapons that it makes absolutely no sense (other than flavor) to take the class at all. Meanwhile taking a Spiked chain into the class gives you 3 solid abilities. This creates a disproportionate power gain towards this exotic weapon over other exotic weapons.
_metz_ 02-24-07, 03:05 AM	lets not forget that tripping, and disarming rules are kinda broken too, so a god wepaon of both kinda doesn't help. If it lost the power attack AND weapon Finesse ability I would be happy. then it would be just a battlefeild control. But at the moment its a damage producer as well, which makes it just that much better than anything else, and you don't need two primary stats.
solbergb 02-25-07, 01:53 PM	I'm sorry. Nobody who uses weapon finesse is a "damage producer" unless they've got gobs of sneak attack. 2d4+0 is crap compared to 2d4+9+power attack
_metz_ 02-25-07, 05:54 PM	Ummm, if you have a weapon finesse weapon two handed power attack it means that even if your str score is only 14, you can do: (assuming +1 weapon and level 5 fighter) 2d4+4+10 damge. Which means you can have dex 18 and a few levels of Rogue and still do incredible amounts of damage. Just take three levels of swashbuckler too, and you get finesse for free and add your int to the damage. Also more skill points AND same Hit die. It means that it can still dmaage produce better than most weapons, whats the difference of 3-4 points of damage on strength when its the plus 10 from power attack that makes the difference.
bhale187 02-25-07, 06:03 PM	I'm sorry. Nobody who uses weapon finesse is a "damage producer" unless they've got gobs of sneak attack. 2d4+0 is crap compared to 2d4+9+power attack Wildrunner Champions of Corellon might beg to differ
solbergb 02-25-07, 06:21 PM	and if you had the 18 str and 14 dex, you'd do even more damage AND have another feat. *shrug* the chain does 2 points less damage/swing than the top tier martial weapons (greataxe, greatsword) and same damage but lower crit range than the top tier reach weapons (2d4x3) and 2 points less damage/swing AND lower crit range than top tier exotic reach weapons (eg, pole-axe, greatspear). You don't choose the chain for damage. You choose it for versatility (it's a trip weapon, a disarm weapon, and if you go into one specific PRC you can flurry with it like you'd normally need a double-weapon to do). To break this down, you can't actually do all of this. Here's some side-by-side comparisons of why finesse with a chain pretty much sucks compared to just being strong. ======================================== ========== 18 dex, 14 strength, 14 int Elf in chain shirt - AC18 L5 fighter power attack full. Feats are exotic weapon proficiency, weapon finesse, power attack, weapon focus, weapon spec: +6 2d4+16 damge. More realistically, he'll have +11 to hit, 2d4+6 damage 18 str, 13 int 14 dex half-orc in fullplate - AC19 L5 fighter power attack for four. Feats are EWP, power attack, combat expertise, improved trip, combat reflexes +6 2d4+18 damage. More realistically he'll have +10 to hit, 2d4+10 damage or +10 touch/trip8, +6 2d4+18 damage vs prone opponent. ======================================== ============== Which means you can have dex 18 and a few levels of Rogue and still do incredible amounts of damage. ======================================== ============== 18 dex, 14 strength, 14 int Elf in chain shirt - AC18 L2 fighter/L3 rogue power attack full. Feats are exotic weapon proficiency, weapon finesse, power attack, combat reflexes +9 2d4+3 or +9 2d4+10 vs sneakable targets - ie the same as the halforc gets versus everybody but only when he sneak attacks and with lower attack mod, and of course, no trip/combat expertise/combat reflexes option. I do not consider this "incredible" damage. I consider this "normal" damage at level 5. Just take three levels of swashbuckler too, and you get finesse for free and add your int to the damage. 18 dex, 14 strength, 14 int Elf in chain shirt - AC18 L2 Fighter/L3 Swashbuckler Feats are exotic weapon proficiency, weapon finesse, power attack, weapon focus, combat reflexes This case is identical damagewise to the L5 fighter case - one less feat, but gets the +2 to int bonus. Except that the fighter gets it vs everybody, the fighter/swash only vs sneakable targets. This build gets one feat back at L5 (used for combat reflexes) that the fighter 5 build won't see till L6. In all cases, the str-based fighter does more damage with the same weapon AND has feats left over to exploit the trip/reach functions AND has higher armor class.
solbergb 02-25-07, 06:28 PM	By the time you're a wildrunner champion of corellon, the simple strength based fighterN/EWM3,barb1 is still outdamaging you, just on basis of weapon spec, melee weapon mastery and raw strength damage and his extra attack in the EWM flurry. I can play the PRC game too with a str build, and if you're getting primal scream, I get reckless rage. *shrug*. The basic problem with weapon finesse is that it only affects the to-hit roll, and damage only indirectly via power attack. Swapping str and dex gets you to-hit that is convertable to power attack AND extra damage. All of the damage add-ons that don't use strength don't really keep up with a raw str build EXCEPT in a TWF type build where off-hand strikes don't get as much strength, and the extra damage is used more often. Plus those add-ons only work vs some opponents, not all. Rogue sneak is something of an exception, but it's almost impossible to keep enough feats to make a spiked chain worthwhile AND have enough sneak dice to make up for the lower BAB.
_metz_ 02-25-07, 06:35 PM	Hey of course there are better Damage producers, but I don't like the 'idea' of a weapon finessed power attacker. Remember the first post - NOT a rules arguement, so I will just say I agree with you. I am all for teh giant two handed axe/sword raging barbarian, love it. go forth and keep it up.
Contrarian 03-04-07, 06:45 PM	2. This is mainly a fluff/fantasy arguement, its silly for all fighters to be running around dangling chains in a manner which seems a little too effective and frankly unrealistic If it makes you feel better, I made my very first LG character last month, and I decided to keep it dirt simple: He's a human fighter who kills things... with a bastard sword! It actually worked pretty well. I took the character to a Veluna intro adventure, and was the big killer of NPCs in every combat. (My fighter easily outperformed the knight and ranger in the party.) After killing the last NPC in each fight, the fighter would yell "and that's why I carry the big sword!" So, I've got the Big Dumb Fighter, the Big Dumb Sword, and the Big Dumb Catchphrase. My PC can turn any adventure into an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie!
Mel Ann Cholly 03-04-07, 08:37 PM	I use a falchion (monkey grip) and a shield. With agile shield fighter.
paigeoliver 03-05-07, 02:03 AM	Lets see what I have. Fighter/Marshall with a whip. Yes it is exotic, but I selected it instead of a spiked chain. Mounted Mutt. Uses lance mounted and lance unmounted. Archer. Composite Longbow or lance. Wizard/Swashbuckler. Rapier. Dwarven Cleric. Dwarven waraxe. Halfling rogue/swashbuckler. Throwing axes. Druid. Club, sling and quarterstaff because those are all free. Character is level 2 and has yet to spend a single gold piece. I still have my starting gold!! So I guess I have a couple of exotic weapons, but the dwarven waraxe is right for dwarves, and vampire hunters are supposed to have whips!!
copper_wyrmling 03-05-07, 02:39 AM	Hmmm, my list: -Oeridian cleric of Joramy who fights with a brambled holy quarterstaff as a double weapon, on the (rare) occasions where the party needs a tank more than they need a fifteenth-level spellslinger. -Suel sorceress who is technically proficient with simple weapons, but you wouldn't know it. Still carrying around her nonmasterwork shortspear that she bought with starting gold (she's L12), and trying to convince people that it has hidden powers. -Wood elf falchion-wielding dervish, who is very attached to his falchions (he was a Kelanenite before it was cool, until a cleric managed to convert him back to the Seldarine). He had the principle of "Swords Good, Spiked Chains Bad" beaten into him fairly hard in the Year 5 Bissel adventures (he fought lots and lots of evil shadow elves with spiked chains and improved trip and hide in plain sight, and then a very powerful paladin passed on his sword to the party as his dying gift). He can't dervish dance with a spiked chain, anyway. -Draconic gnome sorceress whose preferred weapon is her attack bulldog, Macerator. She's now L4 and hasn't used a weapon in anger since being completely ineffective with a light crossbow at first level. -Olman warrior-druid and very novice adventurer who is currently fighting with a spear, but has been observing the jousting customs of Ratik with some interest, and will be switching to a lance next level. So yeah... none of my PCs fight with a spiked chain or anything else exotic, but it wasn't for any principled reason, just other weapons made more sense for them (and didn't require tying up precious feat slots).
gomeztoo 03-05-07, 04:01 AM	Oooh. We do lists. Okay.. - A dragon disciple who fights with any exotic weapon she can get her hands on. Her primary wepon os a tw-balded sword. No spiked chains though - she uses a whip dagger instead. Her only martial weapon is a greatstar. She ocacsionally gets herself grappled/swallowed so she can use her bite and claws to rip creatures apart. It is quite satisfying to burst out of the belly of a creature dumb enough to swallow her whole. Teaches them they should chew their food ;) - A druid, who used to fight with a pack of jackals (not allowed after the alst LGCS). She wields, and is - supprisingly enough - proficient, with a yugoloth trident. And with 'wield', I mean she leans on it while casting spells, directing her animal companion, and aggravating everyone in sight. What? You want her to enter melee? Are you nuts? - A bard who wields a rapier, pprimarily because a rapier looks fasionable. Plans to buy a masterwork rapier, because it looks prettier. But spends most of her stuff on rich upkeep, dresses, and an amazingly expensive, yet totally nonfunctional, set of lizard skin boots. - A rogue, who fights with daggers and/or short sword. Does not consider himself a combatant - he's a 'professional'. - A dwarf who fights with a dwarven waraxe from behind a tower shield. A mobile wall. Could deal decent damage if he could actually hit someone. - My Greyhawk arc PC will be a enormous Touv fighter (or knight) wielding a maul, or possible a greathammer (haven't decided yet). Think Ajax in Troy;) He'll probably also carry a shortsword that he calls a knife. - A monk. 'nuf said. So two PCs with an exotic weapon (3 is you count the trident-wielding druidess).
Timlagor 03-05-07, 08:46 AM	A bard who wields a rapier, pprimarily because a rapier looks fasionable. Plans to buy a masterwork rapier, because it looks prettier. But spends most of her stuff on rich upkeep, dresses, and an amazingly expensive, yet totally nonfunctional, set of lizard skin boots. If it's a fashion statement he should get his hands on a lightblade ;)
gomeztoo 03-05-07, 12:02 PM	If it's a fashion statement he should get his hands on a lightblade ;) Perhaps, but she has to look cool wielding it, which is awkward when one is not proficient. It doesn't look fashionable to stab yourself in the foot with your own blade. Especially as the boots were really expensive.
Tarlyn Alurach 03-10-07, 09:05 PM	After killing the last NPC in each fight, the fighter would yell "and that's why I carry the big sword!" I love that quote. I play the much beloved Hidden Healer. A Rogue/Cleric who has proven time and again why you don't want him in combat. Any kind of combat. Not even a battle of wits. His biggest fears, spiders and Undead. He's great for ******* off the Big Buffed Beefy Spiked Chain Fighter. Fave spells: Silence. And my ability to disappear in the midst of combat. I can sneak around and heal everyone. My weapon of choice: The light mace and the rapier. And yes, I do fight two weapon style.
Dempster 03-11-07, 01:30 AM	As a duel bastard sword weilding fighter ERDRICK SILVERSHINE is with you all the way. I think almost all of my characters have had swords. Heck even my wizard has a longsword.
LachlarlanIII 03-12-07, 12:35 PM	Heck even my wizard has a longsword. Heh. My 6 Str wizard runs around waving his longsword about while proclaiming himself a "duelist". He's more than a little nuts. At some point, he's going to become a Wazard.
Reylance 03-12-07, 03:46 PM	My first character, started at Gen Con 2000, was a longsword-and-shield-wielding fighter, under the assumption that longswords would be the easiest weapon to find. I still fight with longswords, now swinging them two-handed. 2. Human cleric fights with a rapier, the deity's favored weapon. 3. Human wizard whose last melee attack was an AOO with a claw (troglodyte form, of course). Carries a +1 quarterstaff. 4. Elf wizard who still fires a +1 longbow on occasion. 5. Halfling druid, normally casts spells, but occasionally fights with a +1 frost shock club (with Spikes or Brambles). 6. Dragon disciple with a variety of two-handed weapons, most often greatswords. 7. Human fighter with a greatsword, the deity's favored weapon. 8. Wood elf BDF with a greataxe. 9. Gnome cleric who hasn't needed to touch the +1 ghost touch silver heavy mace in a while. 10. Wood elf master thrower wannabe who now uses longbows, spears, and rapiers. 11. Human cleric who TWFs with a quarterstaff, the deity's favored weapon. 12. Human spellsword in training who wields a greatsword, not the deity's favored weapon. 13. Human scout, will take a different level and wield a different weapon later. 14. Grey elf swashbuckler who plans on dual-wielding elven thinblades. 15. Centaur using spear, the deity's favored weapon, and longbow. 16. Human sorcerer, low enough level to use a longspear on occasion. 17. Dwarf fighter, planning on two-weapon fighting with dwarven waraxes. 18. Human ranger, currently with a glaive, later to be a monk.
AOSOL 03-13-07, 10:17 AM	I got a character that uses elven weapons only. I recently purchased my first "toy", a black dragon bone +1, vorpal elven court blade. and of course I wield it finesse style. I got to wield it on a group of aberrations and decapitated two truly horrid uber hulks. I don't need no stinking reach! :D and long live the sword! My home Greyhawk group has a total of five chain fighter characters between all of us. We soon learned that Guargatuan creatures are their bane.:P
LachlarlanIII 03-13-07, 10:45 AM	I got a character that uses elven weapons only. I recently purchased my first "toy", a black dragon bone +1, vorpal elven court blade. and of course I wield it finesse style. I got to wield it on a group of aberrations and decapitated two truly horrid uber hulks. I don't need no stinking reach! :D and long live the sword! My home Greyhawk group has a total of five chain fighter characters between all of us. We soon learned that Guargatuan creatures are their bane.:P Is that from a home game?