Post/Author/DateTime	Post
boogahwoof 04-03-06, 02:48 PM	Ok yall helped me out so much on my halfling mounted build i appriciated it so much. My gf saw all the good ideas and asked me to post a line for her new character idea. Its a human female sorcerer that uses a spiked chain to trip. So let me know of any ideas on levels and progression for this. So far im thinking a level or 2 of fighter so she can get the feats she needs then on to sorcerer from then on? But i just wanted some imput from the guys that helped me so far. thanks to all :D
Lupo 04-03-06, 03:10 PM	Ok yall helped me out so much on my halfling mounted build i appriciated it so much. My gf saw all the good ideas and asked me to post a line for her new character idea. Its a human female sorcerer that uses a spiked chain to trip. So let me know of any ideas on levels and progression for this. So far im thinking a level or 2 of fighter so she can get the feats she needs then on to sorcerer from then on? But i just wanted some imput from the guys that helped me so far. thanks to all :D hm, two levels of fighter, then 4 sorcerer and then maybe spellsword for at least 4 levels, afterwards dragon disciple or sorcerer. when going for tripping, and therefore needing int 13, why not using the int for an wizard??? ciao martin m.
paigeoliver 04-03-06, 03:33 PM	I assume this sorceror has a decent CHA? If so then you can slap a marshall level in there and get the trip aura and get your charisma bonus on trip checks.
opa 04-03-06, 04:05 PM	you need high str for the trip check, high con for hp if you are spending your feats for melee, high dex to help ac, high charisma for your spells and high int for your feat tree... really have a MAD problem... for an arcane trip build ... wizard would be more effective so you can dump stat cha hmm maybe.. s- 14 d- 14 c- 14(16 if dwarf) i- 15 w- 10 ch 8(6 if dwarf) 1- fighter1 (combat expertise, improved trip, scribe scroll) 2- wizard 1 3- wizard 2 (practiced caster wizard) 4- wizard 3 5 fighter 2 (weapon focus spiked chain) 6 wizard 4 (craft wondrous) 7 spellsword 1 can wear leather... 8 spellsword 2 ( craft arms and armor) 9 spellsword 3 can wear mithral breastplate( ) 10-15 eldritch knight 1-6( , ) just a thought.. either that or if she wants a high charisma character to try to specialize in something other than tripping which requires strength and Intelligence
Lupo 04-03-06, 04:14 PM	you need high str for the trip check, high con for hp if you are spending your feats for melee, high dex to help ac, high charisma for your spells and high int for your feat tree... really have a MAD problem... for an arcane trip build ... wizard would be more effective so you can dump stat cha hmm maybe.. s- 14 d- 14 c- 14(16 if dwarf) i- 15 w- 10 ch 8(6 if dwarf) 1- fighter1 (combat expertise, improved trip, scribe scroll) 2- wizard 1 3- wizard 2 (practiced caster wizard) 4- wizard 3 5 fighter 2 (weapon focus spiked chain) 6 wizard 4 (craft wondrous) 7 spellsword 1 can wear leather... 8 spellsword 2 ( craft arms and armor) 9 spellsword 3 can wear mithral breastplate( ) 10-15 eldritch knight 1-6( , ) just a thought.. either that or if she wants a high charisma character to try to specialize in something other than tripping which requires strength and Intelligence i would take first wiz level at level 3 to get all the wonderfull non-phb spells right from the beginning. ciao martin m.
ranagrande 04-03-06, 05:57 PM	A human Sorceror is perfectly viable for a tripper gish. Two levels of Monk can get you Improved Trip as a bonus feat, thus eliminating the need to put points in intelligence. As mentioned above, a level of Marshal with the minor aura Art of War lets you add your charisma modifier to trip attacks, reducing the need for strength. After that, take Divine Oracle if you know two divination spells. (You should; True Strike is a necessity for this build, and Read Magic and Detect Magic are both useful enough to be one of your cantrips.) A few levels of that will give you access to all kinds of classes. My final build would look something like this: Marshal 1/Sorceror 2/Monk 2/Divine Oracle 4/Spellsword 3/Eldritch Knight into retirement. This character does lack hp, and so cannot be the primary melee or tank in a party. It could be a great battlefield tactician though, and it might be fun to play.
Lupo 04-03-06, 07:11 PM	A human Sorceror is perfectly viable for a tripper gish. Two levels of Monk can get you Improved Trip as a bonus feat, thus eliminating the need to put points in intelligence. As mentioned above, a level of Marshal with the minor aura Art of War lets you add your charisma modifier to trip attacks, reducing the need for strength. After that, take Divine Oracle if you know two divination spells. (You should; True Strike is a necessity for this build, and Read Magic and Detect Magic are both useful enough to be one of your cantrips.) A few levels of that will give you access to all kinds of classes. My final build would look something like this: Marshal 1/Sorceror 2/Monk 2/Divine Oracle 4/Spellsword 3/Eldritch Knight into retirement. This character does lack hp, and so cannot be the primary melee or tank in a party. It could be a great battlefield tactician though, and it might be fun to play. you get "improved trip" AT MONK LEVEL 6, hit points of this built are horrific, if you end up as the only fighter-type at a table, you are dead meat. ciao martin m.
ranagrande 04-03-06, 08:14 PM	Thanks for pointing out my mistake. Yeah, Monk doesn't help, so a 13 int is required. That doesn't change much in my build though. Replace the two Monk levels with Fighter for the needed feats, and you're all set. Marshal 1/Sorceror 2/Fighter 2/Divine Oracle 2/Spellsword 3/Eldritch Knight into retirement As for the comment about hit points, that was something that I had already acknowledged. It's hp will be just a little better than a rogue of the same level. If this character is the only fighter-type at a table, then that table doesn't have a fighter and they're all in trouble anyway. The original poster wanted a Sorceror who can trip with a spiked chain. This will accomplish that.
paigeoliver 04-03-06, 08:15 PM	Try it this way instead. Str 14 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 15 Race human. Level 1 Marshall. Combat Expertise, Improved trip. Tripping aura. Level 2. Marshall. Armor class aura. Level 3. Marshall. Spiked chain proficiency. You get another aura, dex and cha are both good ones. Level 4. Sorceror bump charisma to 16, buy a cloak of charisma for 18. At level 4 you are tripping at +10. Level 5. Sorceror. Level 6. Sorceror. Pick whatever feat you want. Level 7. Sorceror. Level 8. Spellsword.
Sieylianna 04-03-06, 08:39 PM	If you're going for sorcerer, you may as well pick up at a level of favored soul of tsolandril for free spiked chain proficiency (and weapon focus at third level). Four levels gives you second level clerical spells and another point of BAB. Unless she has some particular reason to prefer sorcerer to favored soul, the latter functions much better as a spellcaster with a spiked chain. Ed
JamesMaissen 04-03-06, 09:51 PM	Ok yall helped me out so much on my halfling mounted build i appriciated it so much. My gf saw all the good ideas and asked me to post a line for her new character idea. Its a human female sorcerer that uses a spiked chain to trip. So let me know of any ideas on levels and progression for this. So far im thinking a level or 2 of fighter so she can get the feats she needs then on to sorcerer from then on? But i just wanted some imput from the guys that helped me so far. thanks to all :D I would suggest 0 levels of fighter unless the spellsword PrC appeals to you. Use Master's Touch for proficiency in the spiked chain, Fist of Stone and Enlarge Person to augment your strength for the trip check. Take a few spells that don't need you to be in melee and you will only be tied to this by a few spell choices rather than loosing caster levels towards it. Now if Spellsword does appeal to you then you need either a level of fighter, or should i suggest a pair of paladin levels to get your saves through the roof? Stats: Str 14 Int 08 Wis 08 Dex 14 Con 14 Chr 16 Stat bumps to Cha. Pal2/Sorc4/SpellSword1 (or 4)/Havoc Mage1(or 4)/Eldritch KnightX Start with a guisarme and combat reflexes as atleast one of your feats (if human). Practiced Spellcaster is a near required feat at some point to mitigate caster level hits. You may wish to look at arcane strike from CW as a later feat to plan upon. If you do decide to take EWP: Spiked Chain, then consider taking focus in it to drop a level into EWM for the flurry of blows stunt. It will cost a casting level, but getting an extra attack is something that might be worth it if you go down this path. -James
Lomiat 04-04-06, 03:36 AM	People are right that Wizard's a more obvious caster class, but assuming you want the Sorceror, here's another option. Paigeoliver's right about taking at least 1 level of Marshal. Fighter's probably a better way to go than Paladin, just because the 2nd level of Paladin, while it's so juicy--is really just another lost caster level. Jaimes Maissen is right that you want to think about spells as much as classes, but you can't build a tripper with an INT lower than 13. Human STR 14, DEX 12, CON 14, INT 14, WIS 8, CHA 14 (All your level bumps go to CHA.) Marshall 1: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip (start with a guisarme), CHA bonus to STR checks (trips start at +8) Fighter 2: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) Sorceror 3: Combat Reflexes; Mage Armor, Enlarge Person (trip attempts at +13) Sorceror 4: Fist of Stone (trip attempts at +16), bump to CHA Sorceror to 8th: At 6th take Practiced Caster. Choose Mirror Image, False Life, Haste. Bump to CHA (and with Cloak, another +2, to 18 for +4). Trip attempts at +18. A Balor has +18 to oppose. Spellsword 9: Eldritch Knight 10+
solbergb 04-06-06, 01:09 PM	I've adventured with a character like this ("Mr Big"). I believe it was a half-orc sorcerer/monk/fighter build, and it seemed to work ok at level 5 (it was a bit fragile at level 3). For tripping you need strength (high as you can get) and intelligence 13 plus two feats, or you need 6 levels of monk. For combat reflexes you need dex and a reach weapon to get the most out of it. Note that enlarging lowers your dex.
boogahwoof 04-06-06, 01:49 PM	i thank you for all yall help. reading what i did and relaying it to her she has decided to go with fighter marshall warmage -8 then from 8th who knows she decided on that because charisma and intel matter to the warmage as yall pointed out you have to have at leat the 13 int for trip so she wants to take a creation feat to brew her own potions for enlarge lol thanks for everything yall
delewobmesid 04-06-06, 02:34 PM	warmage doesn't get enlarge...
PaulH 04-09-06, 06:20 PM	warmage doesn't get enlarge... Hi They do if you have Wis 11+, and Arcane Disciple feat, for God with Strength Domain. ;) Prereqs Gods exact alignment, 4 ranks Know. Religion, (Cross Class for W/Mage). Cheers Paul H PS - Haven't got Miniatures handbook (yet), so what's deal with Marshalls?
paigeoliver 04-10-06, 02:05 AM	Luckily wizards has the Marshall class on their website. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b Marshall is a class that fills the bard role, but without the musician aspect, nor the spellcaster access. Almost any sort of specialist you want to make that isn't a primary caster can best be built with a marshall, or multiclassed marshall. Want to build a trip or disarm specialist? Marshall can do it better than fighter or Barbarian. Specifically a Marshall/Barbarian/Sorceror could do THAT best. Have a skill you want to be best at? Marshall can be best at it, although you may have to multiclass depending on the skill. Want a face/skill monster including traps? A Marshall-Rogue or Marshall-Scout will fill this role way better than a single classed character of either class. It all comes at a price though. To be an effective Marshall you need yourself about a 16+ charisma. I have two of them, one is Marshall 4/Fighter 1 with a 20 charisma (cloak), and the other is a Marshall 1/Fighter 2 with 15 Charisma (that will boost to 16 at level 4). The most useful Marshall auras in actual play seem to be "Art of War", Motivate Dexterity, Motivate Charisma, and Force of Will. The motivate dexterity one is probably the best one overall. Giving your whole group +4 or +5 on initiative means that your group usually beats that bad guys soundly in initiative and that has a huge effect. Force of will is a great one too, gives all those big dumb fighters in your group an actual usable will save. The wisdom, con, and str auras are not as good as the other stat ones. Wisdom would be useful, but you are almost certainly going to walk around with the dex aura on, and thus not get the bonus on all those spot and listen checks, thus making it mostly a "sense motive" aura, which isn't all that hot. Hi They do if you have Wis 11+, and Arcane Disciple feat, for God with Strength Domain. ;) Prereqs Gods exact alignment, 4 ranks Know. Religion, (Cross Class for W/Mage). Cheers Paul H PS - Haven't got Miniatures handbook (yet), so what's deal with Marshalls?
PaulH 04-10-06, 01:46 PM	Hi Thanks for that - you've probably saved me from buying the book earlier than expected. :) Hmmm - Marshall/Warmage/Eldritch Knight? Cheers Paul H
Rillion 04-11-06, 11:19 PM	How about taking master's touch as one of the sorceror's spells (at 3rd level or later) to avoid taking the spiked chain proficiency and save a feat?