Spell Storing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Spell Storing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SpacePope
01-03-08, 06:46 PM Is it really worth getting in LG for a cleric? I use a Galive right now and was thinking of getting this on it in the near future
JamesMaissen
01-03-08, 10:46 PM Is it really worth getting in LG for a cleric? I use a Galive right now and was thinking of getting this on it in the near future

It's a nice enhancement. Dispel magic is a nice thing to put into it, empowered shocking grasp is another. Depends what your character does and what he wants to achieve.

-James
Timlagor
01-04-08, 07:09 PM I like Touch of Idiocy and Bestow Curse (if the save DC can be high.. sometimes GM will say it's minimum DC in which case don't bother). Dispel is certainly nice too though ..just don't trigger it on the nicely debuffed enemy.

Whether it's worth it specifically for a Cleric would depend on your alternative options though.
Gallaway
01-06-08, 06:41 PM If you pit it on a reach weapon your cleric gets an AoO when charged which is worth having rather than doing mace damage plus something minimal.
_metz_
01-07-08, 11:29 PM It works very well.

Dispel Magic is good, Empowered ray of Enfeeblement is a particular favourite of mine. As a cleric, if up against undead than a searing light isn't terrible.

There is some table variation but using rods to empower spells and whack them in has been done before (not sure about the legality of this) but I have seen empowered scorching rays at high APLs do a bit of damage.
JamesMaissen
01-07-08, 11:49 PM Empowered ray of Enfeeblement is a particular favourite of mine. As a cleric, if up against undead than a searing light isn't terrible.

I don't believe that ray spells can be put into a spell storing weapon.

-James
_metz_
01-07-08, 11:59 PM I don't believe that ray spells can be put into a spell storing weapon.

-James

Thats a good point. wow, I always assumed attack spells were considered as having a 'target'. I guess I am wrong.
Timlagor
01-11-08, 08:14 PM 1) Ray spells are not allowed (but can be Channeled by Spellswords which can cause confusion)

2) Empowered Scorching Ray is a 4th level spell and thus not storable in a Spellstoring Weapon (unless/until the Greater Spellstoring enchantment appears)

3) There should be no variation on Rods with this:
- The person casting the the spell into the Storing Weapon can use a Metamagic Rod to enhance it if they choose so long as the resulting spell would not be of a level too high to store.
- Rods cannot be used as the spell is released from the weapon.
kjenks
01-12-08, 08:00 PM I like Touch of Idiocy and Bestow Curse (if the save DC can be high.. sometimes GM will say it's minimum DC in which case don't bother).

The rules do say it's minimum DC, so your "sometimes GM" would be right.

DMG, page 214.
Iswald
01-13-08, 08:06 AM The rules do say it's minimum DC, so your "sometimes GM" would be right.

DMG, page 214.

If nothing else, I'll be glad when 4th ed is released and ends these demented arguments.
magebeast
01-13-08, 10:45 AM If nothing else, I'll be glad when 4th ed is released and ends these demented arguments.

And we get to pick up some new ones?
Timlagor
01-14-08, 06:05 AM AFAICS PAge 214 is not relevant.

There is no rule for the DC for a spell-storing weapon so the GM would not be wrong whatever they rule.
kjenks
01-14-08, 07:49 AM AFAICS PAge 214 is not relevant.

Here's the SRD version of that rule:
===
SAVING THROWS AGAINST MAGIC ITEM POWERS

Magic items produce spells or spell-like effects. For a saving throw against a spell or spell-like effect from a magic item, the DC is 10 + the level of the spell or effect + the ability modifier of the minimum ability score needed to cast that level of spell.

Staffs are an exception to the rule. Treat the saving throw as if the wielder cast the spell, including caster level and all modifiers to save DC.

Most item descriptions give saving throw DCs for various effects, particularly when the effect has no exact spell equivalent (making its level otherwise difficult to determine quickly).
===

It sure looks relevant to me. Why do you think it's not relevant?
JamesMaissen
01-14-08, 11:44 AM Here's the SRD version of that rule:
===
SAVING THROWS AGAINST MAGIC ITEM POWERS

Magic items produce spells or spell-like effects.

It sure looks relevant to me. Why do you think it's not relevant?

The item is not producing the spell, but rather storing it. Similar (but no where near identical) to how a rod of absorption allows a caster to produce more spells.

These items are different than an item that duplicates a spell on its own.

I'm not sure how clear it is. As LG has the rule that storing items start each game empty there isn't a problem in tracking it.

-James
Istaran
01-14-08, 08:04 PM 2) Empowered Scorching Ray is a 4th level spell and thus not storable in a Spellstoring Weapon (unless/until the Greater Spellstoring enchantment appears)

Empowered Scorching Ray is a 2nd level spell that takes a 4th level spell slot to cast. Spellstoring weapons do not have spell slots, they have the ability to store a single 3rd level or lower spell. Do you have a rules reference that says metamagic'd spells (requiring 4th or higher spell slots) can't be stored in a spellstoring weapon? Maybe from errata? It is certainly a reasonable restriction, but I do not see where it is in the RAW. (Of course, ray spells are already out anyways.) Empowered Maximized Magic Missile is still a 1st level targetted spell and so it seems like it would fit in a spellstoring weapon:

Spell Storing
A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Once the spell has been cast from the weapon, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled spell storing weapon has a 50% chance to have a spell stored in it already.

Effects of Metamagic Feats on a Spell
In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast as a higher-level spell. Saving throw modifications are not changed unless stated otherwise in the feat description.

Of course, even if some DMs would allow it, I would not recommend assuming you will be allowed to store highly metamagic'd spells. When making the purchase, assume you will not be allowed metamagic'd spells above 3rd level slots nor your full save DC; also assume you will not always have other casters around to fill it with their favorite tricks.
copperwyrmling
01-14-08, 09:38 PM Empowered Scorching Ray is a 2nd level spell that takes a 4th level spell slot to cast. Spellstoring weapons do not have spell slots, they have the ability to store a single 3rd level or lower spell. Do you have a rules reference that says metamagic'd spells (requiring 4th or higher spell slots) can't be stored in a spellstoring weapon? Maybe from errata? It is certainly a reasonable restriction, but I do not see where it is in the RAW.

It would probably be from the precedent of other items that work with "spells of X level" - recalling spells through pearls of power, and storing spells in wands / scrolls, both work off the adjusted level of a metamagicked spell, not the base level. It generally seems like the designers and FAQ-writers are all very confused about the assorted levels of metamagicked spells and how they interact, though.
Iswald
01-15-08, 12:03 AM And we get to pick up some new ones?

Without a doubt! Sad to say. But, at least they'll be different. :P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SpacePope 01-03-08, 06:46 PM	Is it really worth getting in LG for a cleric? I use a Galive right now and was thinking of getting this on it in the near future
JamesMaissen 01-03-08, 10:46 PM	Is it really worth getting in LG for a cleric? I use a Galive right now and was thinking of getting this on it in the near future It's a nice enhancement. Dispel magic is a nice thing to put into it, empowered shocking grasp is another. Depends what your character does and what he wants to achieve. -James
Timlagor 01-04-08, 07:09 PM	I like Touch of Idiocy and Bestow Curse (if the save DC can be high.. sometimes GM will say it's minimum DC in which case don't bother). Dispel is certainly nice too though ..just don't trigger it on the nicely debuffed enemy. Whether it's worth it specifically for a Cleric would depend on your alternative options though.
Gallaway 01-06-08, 06:41 PM	If you pit it on a reach weapon your cleric gets an AoO when charged which is worth having rather than doing mace damage plus something minimal.
_metz_ 01-07-08, 11:29 PM	It works very well. Dispel Magic is good, Empowered ray of Enfeeblement is a particular favourite of mine. As a cleric, if up against undead than a searing light isn't terrible. There is some table variation but using rods to empower spells and whack them in has been done before (not sure about the legality of this) but I have seen empowered scorching rays at high APLs do a bit of damage.
JamesMaissen 01-07-08, 11:49 PM	Empowered ray of Enfeeblement is a particular favourite of mine. As a cleric, if up against undead than a searing light isn't terrible. I don't believe that ray spells can be put into a spell storing weapon. -James
_metz_ 01-07-08, 11:59 PM	I don't believe that ray spells can be put into a spell storing weapon. -James Thats a good point. wow, I always assumed attack spells were considered as having a 'target'. I guess I am wrong.
Timlagor 01-11-08, 08:14 PM	1) Ray spells are not allowed (but can be Channeled by Spellswords which can cause confusion) 2) Empowered Scorching Ray is a 4th level spell and thus not storable in a Spellstoring Weapon (unless/until the Greater Spellstoring enchantment appears) 3) There should be no variation on Rods with this: - The person casting the the spell into the Storing Weapon can use a Metamagic Rod to enhance it if they choose so long as the resulting spell would not be of a level too high to store. - Rods cannot be used as the spell is released from the weapon.
kjenks 01-12-08, 08:00 PM	I like Touch of Idiocy and Bestow Curse (if the save DC can be high.. sometimes GM will say it's minimum DC in which case don't bother). The rules do say it's minimum DC, so your "sometimes GM" would be right. DMG, page 214.
Iswald 01-13-08, 08:06 AM	The rules do say it's minimum DC, so your "sometimes GM" would be right. DMG, page 214. If nothing else, I'll be glad when 4th ed is released and ends these demented arguments.
magebeast 01-13-08, 10:45 AM	If nothing else, I'll be glad when 4th ed is released and ends these demented arguments. And we get to pick up some new ones?
Timlagor 01-14-08, 06:05 AM	AFAICS PAge 214 is not relevant. There is no rule for the DC for a spell-storing weapon so the GM would not be wrong whatever they rule.
kjenks 01-14-08, 07:49 AM	AFAICS PAge 214 is not relevant. Here's the SRD version of that rule: === SAVING THROWS AGAINST MAGIC ITEM POWERS Magic items produce spells or spell-like effects. For a saving throw against a spell or spell-like effect from a magic item, the DC is 10 + the level of the spell or effect + the ability modifier of the minimum ability score needed to cast that level of spell. Staffs are an exception to the rule. Treat the saving throw as if the wielder cast the spell, including caster level and all modifiers to save DC. Most item descriptions give saving throw DCs for various effects, particularly when the effect has no exact spell equivalent (making its level otherwise difficult to determine quickly). === It sure looks relevant to me. Why do you think it's not relevant?
JamesMaissen 01-14-08, 11:44 AM	Here's the SRD version of that rule: === SAVING THROWS AGAINST MAGIC ITEM POWERS Magic items produce spells or spell-like effects. It sure looks relevant to me. Why do you think it's not relevant? The item is not producing the spell, but rather storing it. Similar (but no where near identical) to how a rod of absorption allows a caster to produce more spells. These items are different than an item that duplicates a spell on its own. I'm not sure how clear it is. As LG has the rule that storing items start each game empty there isn't a problem in tracking it. -James
Istaran 01-14-08, 08:04 PM	2) Empowered Scorching Ray is a 4th level spell and thus not storable in a Spellstoring Weapon (unless/until the Greater Spellstoring enchantment appears) Empowered Scorching Ray is a 2nd level spell that takes a 4th level spell slot to cast. Spellstoring weapons do not have spell slots, they have the ability to store a single 3rd level or lower spell. Do you have a rules reference that says metamagic'd spells (requiring 4th or higher spell slots) can't be stored in a spellstoring weapon? Maybe from errata? It is certainly a reasonable restriction, but I do not see where it is in the RAW. (Of course, ray spells are already out anyways.) Empowered Maximized Magic Missile is still a 1st level targetted spell and so it seems like it would fit in a spellstoring weapon: Spell Storing A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Once the spell has been cast from the weapon, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled spell storing weapon has a 50% chance to have a spell stored in it already. Effects of Metamagic Feats on a Spell In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast as a higher-level spell. Saving throw modifications are not changed unless stated otherwise in the feat description. Of course, even if some DMs would allow it, I would not recommend assuming you will be allowed to store highly metamagic'd spells. When making the purchase, assume you will not be allowed metamagic'd spells above 3rd level slots nor your full save DC; also assume you will not always have other casters around to fill it with their favorite tricks.
copperwyrmling 01-14-08, 09:38 PM	Empowered Scorching Ray is a 2nd level spell that takes a 4th level spell slot to cast. Spellstoring weapons do not have spell slots, they have the ability to store a single 3rd level or lower spell. Do you have a rules reference that says metamagic'd spells (requiring 4th or higher spell slots) can't be stored in a spellstoring weapon? Maybe from errata? It is certainly a reasonable restriction, but I do not see where it is in the RAW. It would probably be from the precedent of other items that work with "spells of X level" - recalling spells through pearls of power, and storing spells in wands / scrolls, both work off the adjusted level of a metamagicked spell, not the base level. It generally seems like the designers and FAQ-writers are all very confused about the assorted levels of metamagicked spells and how they interact, though.
Iswald 01-15-08, 12:03 AM	And we get to pick up some new ones? Without a doubt! Sad to say. But, at least they'll be different. :P