Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lomiat 01-24-06, 04:18 PM	1. Polymorph: A. Casters are unable to turn themselves into anything Huge or larger. Are they able to turn familiars into Large creatures? Can a Tiny familiar turn into anything larger than Small size? B. Would a creature Polymorphed into Will O' Wisp form gain the unspecified (as to its origin) +9 deflection bonus to AC? 2. Can a wizard / arcane caster with Craft Wondrous items use ranks in Use Magic Device (as a Loremaster) to craft items with scrolls from other spell lists: Barkskin, Righteous Might, etc.? If so, how many ranks does a caster need in UMD in order to craft with it? Just enough to Take 10 to cast the necessary scrolls? (My wizard really wants a Bead of Karma, enough to make it with scrolls if need be.) 3. Telekinesis: Would a wizard with Combat Expertise/Improved (Trip or Disarm) or Improved Grapple gain the +4 to the appropriate check while using Telekinesis? Thanks for your help.
Macabail 01-24-06, 07:23 PM	I can't answer #1 or #3, but in regards to #2. You can never 'Take 10' on a Use Magic Device check, so in regards to the needed check (and this is just my opinion) you would need at least something in the range of +20. Also, you would need huge quantities of the scrolls, since to craft an item requires one day per 1,000 gp in the market value, and you must have the spells needed available each day. Finally, you can't craft individual beads, you must craft the entire item that the bead of karma is in. And lasty, you can't use prayer beads unless you can cast divine spells. Hope that helps, James Zwiers
Drezden 01-25-06, 11:19 AM	I don't believe there is a minimum required UMD bonus to craft using scrolls - you just need to make the rolls (DC21 to use a scroll). I am planning on crafting a Luckstone with my big +4 to UMD. I am going to buy 25 scrolls of Divine Favor (5 extra). You can keep re-trying your UMD check as long as you don't roll a 1. If you roll a 1, you can't re-try with that particular scroll that day (but it is fine to use the next day). So I just need to get a 17-20 before I roll 6 1s in a row every day. I am not really worried about it. Daren
Lomiat 01-25-06, 11:33 AM	I've been told that failing a UMD check still uses a charge or expends the item. Is this correct?
redgamer 01-25-06, 11:41 AM	No, thats not correct.
Macabail 01-25-06, 11:46 AM	I don't believe there is a minimum required UMD bonus to craft using scrolls - you just need to make the rolls (DC21 to use a scroll). I am planning on crafting a Luckstone with my big +4 to UMD. I am going to buy 25 scrolls of Divine Favor (5 extra). You can keep re-trying your UMD check as long as you don't roll a 1. If you roll a 1, you can't re-try with that particular scroll that day (but it is fine to use the next day). So I just need to get a 17-20 before I roll 6 1s in a row every day. I am not really worried about it. Daren Actually, you would have to hit a 25 each time (to avoid the caster level check), and be able to buy the scrolls at caster level 5. That is because the stone has a prereq of caster level 5. If you failed to hit a 25, then you would have to roll against a DC 6 check, using your final result - 20 (to get the emulated caster level check). If you fail that check then you have to make a DC 5 Wisdom check to suffer a scroll mishap. Regardless, if you break 20 the scroll is used up. You would also have to emulate an 11 or higher Wisdom if you don't have one. You also must have deciphered the scroll (DC 26 in this case). In short, you need a lot more than a +4. James
Drezden 01-25-06, 12:03 PM	No, to use a scroll successfully you just need a UMD check of 21. There is no scroll mishap chance when attempting a UMD check - only that if you get a 1, you can't use the scroll again that day. I don't need caster level 5 scrolls - caster level 1 is just fine. The caster level requirement of 5 is satisfied by my wizard caster level - which is a lot higher than 5. The LGCS simply says you can use a scrolled spell to satisfy the spell requirement - there is no mention of the scroll having to meet the caster level for the item - that is something the creator has to do. Deciphering a scroll simply requires a read magic (0 level) spell - got plenty of those. Daren Actually, you would have to hit a 25 each time (to avoid the caster level check), and be able to buy the scrolls at caster level 5. That is because the stone has a prereq of caster level 5. If you failed to hit a 25, then you would have to roll against a DC 6 check, using your final result - 20 (to get the emulated caster level check). If you fail that check then you have to make a DC 5 Wisdom check to suffer a scroll mishap. Regardless, if you break 20 the scroll is used up. You would also have to emulate an 11 or higher Wisdom if you don't have one. You also must have deciphered the scroll (DC 26 in this case). In short, you need a lot more than a +4. James
Macabail 01-25-06, 03:06 PM	No, to use a scroll successfully you just need a UMD check of 21. There is no scroll mishap chance when attempting a UMD check - only that if you get a 1, you can't use the scroll again that day. I don't need caster level 5 scrolls - caster level 1 is just fine. The caster level requirement of 5 is satisfied by my wizard caster level - which is a lot higher than 5. The LGCS simply says you can use a scrolled spell to satisfy the spell requirement - there is no mention of the scroll having to meet the caster level for the item - that is something the creator has to do. Deciphering a scroll simply requires a read magic (0 level) spell - got plenty of those. Daren I was assuming you had no caster levels :) so yes, read magic negates the need for deciphering the scroll. As far as caster level, my reading is that the caster level is the required caster level for the spells that are being used in crafting the item. Now, that may or may not be intent of the rules (its not particularly clear on that). In regards to scroll mishaps, that was in reference solely to having to make caster level checks when using UMD with scrolls. The need for a caster level check is determined by the end result of your UMD check, and is a feature of using a scroll, not of the UMD skill. In regards to caster level and satisfying that, contact the circle (I can only make rulings for LA, here I only offer my reading of the rules and some attempts at clarifying things where I can). James
Sieylianna 01-25-06, 05:19 PM	2. Can a wizard / arcane caster with Craft Wondrous items use ranks in Use Magic Device (as a Loremaster) to craft items with scrolls from other spell lists: Barkskin, Righteous Might, etc.? If so, how many ranks does a caster need in UMD in order to craft with it? Just enough to Take 10 to cast the necessary scrolls? (My wizard really wants a Bead of Karma, enough to make it with scrolls if need be.) My answer, after reviewing the LGCS is no. While the LGCS allows you to use scrolls in magic item creation, it seems apparent that is intended to be for spells which are on your spell list (useful for sorcerers). I'm basing this off of the folllowing (page 55), "Item creation occurs before the adventure starts. You must have a magic item creation logsheet FILLED OUT AND READY for your DM when you sit down at the table." and page 57 "The player is required to have MIC Logsheets filled out and ready before play. If it is NOT COMPLETED or in order you may deny this character from creating any items before the current adventure". I don't see any room for the judge to witness UMD die rolls which affect the creation time and hence the MIC Logsheet. Remember that even taking 10 is at the DM's discretion. Of course, I'm nobody official, but I suspect most judges who take time to look at the item creation logsheet will disallow it entirely. Ed
mendahu 01-25-06, 07:47 PM	I intend on doing the exact same thing for my arcane trickster (making a luck stone, that is), and here's what I've dug up to support it: 1. You CAN use Use Magic Device to satisfy spell requirements for Crafting Wondrous Items. This is supported by a circle ruling on the LG board by Steven Conforti, summed up on the Pale website: http://www.theocracyofthepale.com/gamerules/circle_rulings.html#mic LG bans the use of scrolls to satisfy wand or scroll creation, but Wondrous Items are in the clear. 2. Caster Level of the scroll: The Caster level identified with each wondrous item is not a requirement for making it as per normal 3.5 rules; it is an LG-specific ruling. You won't find anything in the DMG saying you need to be said caster level to make the item, because you don't. In LG, however, you have to satisfy the following ruling from the LGCS: "Is the caster level of an item a prerequisite for creating it? Yes. You must have a caster level equal or higher than the one listed to create a magic item" I'm guessing that this rule was implemented to scale MIC in the campaign, and make sure no one is making powerful items with high caster levels. However, this is no way implies that the spells cast to make the item must be cast at the minimum caster level. So, when making an item, your own personal caster level must meet the requirement, but you could certainly use lower level scrolls/wands to cast the spells. 3. Mishaps/Minimum rolls: First of all, forget about mishaps. Mishaps only happen on an attempt to "activate blindly", meaning you're trying to cast the spell from the scroll or whatever without actually knowing what it is or what it does. If you bought the scrolls, you know what they are, and as long as you blow some read magic, you'll never suffer a mishap. Second, you cannot take 10 with Use Magic Device, as stated in its description. Third, there is no penalty for failing a check on a scroll (unless a 1 is rolled, see below). So you can just try again. Because of this, you shouldn't need too high of a roll. If you roll a 1 AND you fail (ie. if you have less than a +20 UMD check when trying to cast a 1st level scroll), you can't use it again until the morrow. So as mentioned, just buy a couple extra scrolls and the odds are with you. 4. Scroll Mishaps (from standard activation rules) Normally, when activating a scroll, there is a chance for mishap if your caster level is not higher than the scroll's. If you have the Craft Wondrous Item feat, though, you obviously have 5 levels of caster, so this isn't a worry unless you're casting 4th level+ spells from scrolls, which isn't worth the money anyway. Even then, the DC for the caster level check is ridiculously low (DC 2 for a level 1 scroll). So create away! -Jake Robins Edmonton, AB
Lomiat 01-25-06, 07:47 PM	Ed, That was my original suspicion, too. However, let's take away the argument that the DM has to witness dice rolls. Let's pretend that due to enough ranks in UMD and enough miscellaneous modifiers, we can get our caster to succeed automatically on the attempts. In that case, can the arcane caster craft wondrous items with UMD? The "crafting from scrolls" argument actually seems to support it. Hence my confusion.
redgamer 01-26-06, 12:39 AM	I've always felt that the word choice used in the DMG suggested that the caster level was actually a prereq and the only reason they didn't write a a seperate sentance the said "The crafter must have the caster level listed to create the item" was because the intent was clear and they felt it was better that home game DMs (the primary market for the DMG) could bend that rule as they saw fit.
Sieylianna 01-26-06, 12:17 PM	Ed, That was my original suspicion, too. However, let's take away the argument that the DM has to witness dice rolls. Let's pretend that due to enough ranks in UMD and enough miscellaneous modifiers, we can get our caster to succeed automatically on the attempts. In that case, can the arcane caster craft wondrous items with UMD? The "crafting from scrolls" argument actually seems to support it. Since you can't take 10 on UMD, I wouldn't have a problem with using a scroll to create magic items if your Charisma, UMD ranks, feats, synergy bonuses, etc. allowed you to make all required UMD checks without rolling. But like lots of things in LG, without a distinct Circle ruling, you're going to have differences between judges at different tables. I had looked into using scrolls (or limited wish) so my wizard could create a luckstone, but I eventually decide had access and just bought one. Ed
Paul H 01-26-06, 05:34 PM	Hi The answer to question 1 (Polymorph) is listed under the spell description. (PHB Pg 263). You can only change within one size category, no smaller than Fine. The creature types are also listed. Lowest of your Caster Lvl/Subjects HD is max HD of new form. (Familiar's HD = your HD for HD related effects. PHB Pg 52 Familiar Basics) Presumably your Familiar could also be affected, if it was (and remains) within 5' of you. Cheers Paul H