Spellcaster/Fighter Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Spellcaster/Fighter Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nutellajoe
05-29-06, 03:04 PM I always wanted to create a character that was a mix of some spellcaster (WIZ or SOR) and fighter that uses self buffs to his advantage. I dont want him to suck like my other fighter so if you can help me it will be greatly aperitiated. Also this is a NON-SANDSTORM character. If it makes any difference he will live in Nyrond. I am open to any suggestions. Thanks in advance.
Cynric
05-29-06, 08:10 PM I have not had much experience with this sort of Build, although I am looking at making one for the return of Ratik later in the year.

So far, my thoughts are for a daggerspell mage, providing I can get access. Otherwise I was looking at fighter 1\Wizard 4\then into spellsword and eldritch knight. As long as I pick up arcane strike, I think the damage output should be ok. You might want to look at a specialised transmuter for your wizard levels. That is where most of your buffs should come from
Sieylianna
05-30-06, 08:55 AM I always wanted to create a character that was a mix of some spellcaster (WIZ or SOR) and fighter that uses self buffs to his advantage. I dont want him to suck like my other fighter so if you can help me it will be greatly aperitiated. Also this is a NON-SANDSTORM character. If it makes any difference he will live in Nyrond. I am open to any suggestions. Thanks in advance.

I have a barbarian/wizard who is going for Eldritch Knight. He's survived to almost fourth level. He's still looking for a mithral chain shirt, but if he can get a rod of lesser extend, he'll get by with mage armor and pearls of power.

I did barbarian instead of fighter for rage, hit points and skill points. The disadvantage is that I'd need to spend a feat on heavy armor to go spellsword (or I can take a fighter level and get a bonus feat). Rage mage takes combat casting and costs a caster level. I plan to take craft wondrous as my wizard bonus feat at 6th.

So far, he can wade into the weak creatures or cast shield to get up to AC 20 (before rage) against the tougher things. He is relatively fragile (14 CON before raging), so I have to play smarter as he goes up levels.

Ed
Mommy was an Orc
05-30-06, 09:28 AM I like the following:
Dwarf Str 14, Dex 12, Con 17, Int 16, Wis 8, Cha 6
Ftr 1/Wizard 6/Spellsword 1/Loremaster 7
Take Power Attack at 1st.

Take the feat Still Spell at 3rd level and apply it to any spell that has a Somatic Component. Skill Focus any specific knowledge at 6th, and Arcane Strike at 9th. Quicken Spell is nice at 12th, the other 1st, 13th, and 15th level feats are up to you. Wear Full Plate as fast as you can afford it.

Raise Constitution to 18 at level 4 and then raise Int at 8 and 12. You could make Con start at 18 and Int at 15, but that loses you 7 nearly free skill points.
Take the +2 to Fort, +1 to Attack, and the free feat with the 1st 5 levels of Loremaster. If you manage to qualify for Sacred Exorcist, take some levels of it instead.

Basically, the character has the AC and hit points of a frontliner, can wield a dwarven waraxe, yet is nearly a full-blown spellcaster(in particular, he can take the Full Plate off and be the party arcanist with all the spell capability expected of him at APL). With Arcane Strike, he can easily make up the BAB problems and he also gets fast access to Polymorph(level 8) so as to turn into things such as an Annis Hag.
Necrochaos
05-30-06, 05:46 PM Mommy, how does the Dwarf build that you have compare with the Bard/Paladin build that you have on other posts. I like this Dwarf idea a lot at the moment, just not sure how to play him.
Mommy was an Orc
05-30-06, 06:28 PM Mommy, how does the Dwarf build that you have compare with the Bard/Paladin build that you have on other posts. I like this Dwarf idea a lot at the moment, just not sure how to play him.

I like the Dwarf a lot better for LG - he's a lot more straightforward for most of his career - when he's at an odd level, he can play down and essentially be a wizard at APL. When he's at an even level, he can play at APL and be capable of casting spells other wizards can cast at APL. But with your 18 Con, that basically turns your d4s into d8s. With False Life, that kicks it up to essentially d12s or so early and d10s later.

In other words, you can be the party wizard or you can be the guy who is the party tank. Even when you're the tank, you're still not going to be a horrible spellcaster, just one that seems to similar to one that is three levels behind and took Practiced Spellcaster for half value.

When you're the frontliner, you put on your full plate, memorize all your somatic spells with still spell, and go to work. This here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=472555) is a good list of spells that don't involve ASF - True Strike, Blur, Displacement, Dimension Door, Critical Strike and Blades of Fire are all pretty useful for a frontline fighter. So are spells that last for hours such as False Life, Greater Magic Weapon, Overland Flight, and Unseen Servant or spells that last 20 min/level with a Lesser Rod of Extend Spells - Heroism in particular.
Necrochaos
05-31-06, 07:15 AM My other question is why Loremaster instead of Eldrich Knight or other spellcaster class? Just curious.
Mommy was an Orc
05-31-06, 09:00 AM My other question is why Loremaster instead of Eldrich Knight or other spellcaster class? Just curious.

Because Loremaster has the attack secret(+1 to attacks) and doesn't cost a caster level. Not losing the caster level means you can always be casting a spell expected of you at APL and also means you don't really have any use for Practiced Spellcaster(saving you a feat when you take the 5th level of Loremaster)
Drezden
05-31-06, 12:00 PM But with a BAB of +8 (yuck) at 15th level, you are not a real front liner. You are better off going straightclassed caster (wizard/Div. Or/Loremaster) or more of a "true" gish build where you give up less BAB, but lose more caster levels. With this mix, you won't be as good a caster as a dedicated wizard, nor will you be as good a frontliner as a dedicated gish.

Daren
Mommy was an Orc
05-31-06, 03:05 PM But with a BAB of +8 (yuck) at 15th level, you are not a real front liner. You are better off going straightclassed caster (wizard/Div. Or/Loremaster) or more of a "true" gish build where you give up less BAB, but lose more caster levels. With this mix, you won't be as good a caster as a dedicated wizard, nor will you be as good a frontliner as a dedicated gish.

Daren

Most of the play doesn't happen at 15th level...the BAB difference is marginal at 12- and he has the immediate advantage of buying Full Plate at level 2 with no regrets - at level 4, he can cast Fist of Stone on himself at the start of battle to give himself a 20 Strength while having a 21 AC without magical armor, no ASF. At 13+, yes, there's a difference and it is still a marginal one - as an example, 14th level Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 5/EK 3's can't cast 5th level spells when he can cast 7th level ones.

Such doing Polymorph and Enlarge Person in one round. Turning into Frost Giant with a 35 Strength and all your equipment on round 1 at 15th level tends to equalize out the BAB difference.
Drezden
05-31-06, 04:46 PM Most of the play doesn't happen at 15th level...the BAB difference is marginal at 12- and he has the immediate advantage of buying Full Plate at level 2 with no regrets - at level 4, he can cast Fist of Stone on himself at the start of battle to give himself a 20 Strength while having a 21 AC without magical armor, no ASF. At 13+, yes, there's a difference and it is still a marginal one - as an example, 14th level Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 5/EK 3's can't cast 5th level spells when he can cast 7th level ones.

Such doing Polymorph and Enlarge Person in one round. Turning into Frost Giant with a 35 Strength and all your equipment on round 1 at 15th level tends to equalize out the BAB difference.

I don't think you will ever equalize out the BAB difference. A higher level spellsword mix can still cast enlarge person and Polymorph on himself. [Also, many GMs will not let you Quicken Enlarge Person as a swift action.] In fact, they are both minutes per level spells so at 12th+ level they can be up for almost an entire dungeon crawl. This is especially true of Enlarge person with all of the Pearl 1s and Lesser Extend Rods out there. The 13th level spellsword in my group is enlarged for almost every fight.

Again, I am just not a big fan of a "frontliner" who ends with an 8 BAB and doesn't even get an iterative attack until 10th level - when a pure fighter is almost ready for his 3rd attack. Will the build have more of a utility function than a "pure gish?" Sure - the increased spell selection assures this. But I don't think it will fill the frontliner role as well. It also won't fill the arcane role as well as a straight arcane with no level loss. Ultimately, I'd rather have a party of specialists that all do their jobs well than a bunch of swiss army knives (*everything else - such as player skill - being equal, of course).

Daren
PaulH
06-03-06, 09:02 PM Hi

Though not strictly a 'buffer', Warmage does have couple of 'buffing' spells:
Fist of Stone, Fire Shield, Ring of Blades

Eldritch Knight is a good Arcane Caster retaining good BAB. Enlightened Fist is also interesting, but with a Cleric's BAB. I'm tempted with Warmage for both of them.

Access to True Strike is self-explanatory, but don't forget spells like Fist of Stone (must be 3rd lvl char). D6+ 1 1/2 Str Mod Damage! Plus all the Orb spells, Fire Shield, Poison, Ring of Blades etc.

Example

Dwarf St 10 De 14 Co 12 In 14 Wi 10 Ch 14

Lvl/Feats

1) Fighter. Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot.
2) Warmage
3) Warmage. Practiced Spellcaster, Warmage
4) Warmage. Advanced Learning (Tenser's Disk)
5) Warmage.
6) Warmage. Extra Edge.
7) Warmage. Advanced Learning (Leomund's Tiny Hut)
8) Eldritch Knight.
9) Eldritch Knight. Battlecaster (Cast spells in medium armour)
10) Eldritch Knight

Your BAB is 7/2
You cast spells as 8th lvl Warmage, caster lvl 10
+5 damage to spells (Extra edge, Edge). Note extra +1 for PBS
Can cast spells in Medium Armour - no spell failure. (Mithril Full Plate)? :D

Important Spells:
Lvl 1: True Strike, Fist of Stone (+6 enh bonus Str), Lssr Orbs
Lvl 2: Blades of Fire, Scorching Ray, Whirling Blade
Lvl 3: Fire Shield, Fireball, Ring of Blades, etc
Lvl 4: Evard's Tentacles, Orbs of...., Phantasmal Killer

At 7th lvl you have BAB +4. Cast Fire Shield & charge! (Shield does D6+12 damage. No Save. SR Yes).

Cheers
Paul H

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nutellajoe 05-29-06, 03:04 PM	I always wanted to create a character that was a mix of some spellcaster (WIZ or SOR) and fighter that uses self buffs to his advantage. I dont want him to suck like my other fighter so if you can help me it will be greatly aperitiated. Also this is a NON-SANDSTORM character. If it makes any difference he will live in Nyrond. I am open to any suggestions. Thanks in advance.
Cynric 05-29-06, 08:10 PM	I have not had much experience with this sort of Build, although I am looking at making one for the return of Ratik later in the year. So far, my thoughts are for a daggerspell mage, providing I can get access. Otherwise I was looking at fighter 1\Wizard 4\then into spellsword and eldritch knight. As long as I pick up arcane strike, I think the damage output should be ok. You might want to look at a specialised transmuter for your wizard levels. That is where most of your buffs should come from
Sieylianna 05-30-06, 08:55 AM	I always wanted to create a character that was a mix of some spellcaster (WIZ or SOR) and fighter that uses self buffs to his advantage. I dont want him to suck like my other fighter so if you can help me it will be greatly aperitiated. Also this is a NON-SANDSTORM character. If it makes any difference he will live in Nyrond. I am open to any suggestions. Thanks in advance. I have a barbarian/wizard who is going for Eldritch Knight. He's survived to almost fourth level. He's still looking for a mithral chain shirt, but if he can get a rod of lesser extend, he'll get by with mage armor and pearls of power. I did barbarian instead of fighter for rage, hit points and skill points. The disadvantage is that I'd need to spend a feat on heavy armor to go spellsword (or I can take a fighter level and get a bonus feat). Rage mage takes combat casting and costs a caster level. I plan to take craft wondrous as my wizard bonus feat at 6th. So far, he can wade into the weak creatures or cast shield to get up to AC 20 (before rage) against the tougher things. He is relatively fragile (14 CON before raging), so I have to play smarter as he goes up levels. Ed
Mommy was an Orc 05-30-06, 09:28 AM	I like the following: Dwarf Str 14, Dex 12, Con 17, Int 16, Wis 8, Cha 6 Ftr 1/Wizard 6/Spellsword 1/Loremaster 7 Take Power Attack at 1st. Take the feat Still Spell at 3rd level and apply it to any spell that has a Somatic Component. Skill Focus any specific knowledge at 6th, and Arcane Strike at 9th. Quicken Spell is nice at 12th, the other 1st, 13th, and 15th level feats are up to you. Wear Full Plate as fast as you can afford it. Raise Constitution to 18 at level 4 and then raise Int at 8 and 12. You could make Con start at 18 and Int at 15, but that loses you 7 nearly free skill points. Take the +2 to Fort, +1 to Attack, and the free feat with the 1st 5 levels of Loremaster. If you manage to qualify for Sacred Exorcist, take some levels of it instead. Basically, the character has the AC and hit points of a frontliner, can wield a dwarven waraxe, yet is nearly a full-blown spellcaster(in particular, he can take the Full Plate off and be the party arcanist with all the spell capability expected of him at APL). With Arcane Strike, he can easily make up the BAB problems and he also gets fast access to Polymorph(level 8) so as to turn into things such as an Annis Hag.
Necrochaos 05-30-06, 05:46 PM	Mommy, how does the Dwarf build that you have compare with the Bard/Paladin build that you have on other posts. I like this Dwarf idea a lot at the moment, just not sure how to play him.
Mommy was an Orc 05-30-06, 06:28 PM	Mommy, how does the Dwarf build that you have compare with the Bard/Paladin build that you have on other posts. I like this Dwarf idea a lot at the moment, just not sure how to play him. I like the Dwarf a lot better for LG - he's a lot more straightforward for most of his career - when he's at an odd level, he can play down and essentially be a wizard at APL. When he's at an even level, he can play at APL and be capable of casting spells other wizards can cast at APL. But with your 18 Con, that basically turns your d4s into d8s. With False Life, that kicks it up to essentially d12s or so early and d10s later. In other words, you can be the party wizard or you can be the guy who is the party tank. Even when you're the tank, you're still not going to be a horrible spellcaster, just one that seems to similar to one that is three levels behind and took Practiced Spellcaster for half value. When you're the frontliner, you put on your full plate, memorize all your somatic spells with still spell, and go to work. This here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=472555) is a good list of spells that don't involve ASF - True Strike, Blur, Displacement, Dimension Door, Critical Strike and Blades of Fire are all pretty useful for a frontline fighter. So are spells that last for hours such as False Life, Greater Magic Weapon, Overland Flight, and Unseen Servant or spells that last 20 min/level with a Lesser Rod of Extend Spells - Heroism in particular.
Necrochaos 05-31-06, 07:15 AM	My other question is why Loremaster instead of Eldrich Knight or other spellcaster class? Just curious.
Mommy was an Orc 05-31-06, 09:00 AM	My other question is why Loremaster instead of Eldrich Knight or other spellcaster class? Just curious. Because Loremaster has the attack secret(+1 to attacks) and doesn't cost a caster level. Not losing the caster level means you can always be casting a spell expected of you at APL and also means you don't really have any use for Practiced Spellcaster(saving you a feat when you take the 5th level of Loremaster)
Drezden 05-31-06, 12:00 PM	But with a BAB of +8 (yuck) at 15th level, you are not a real front liner. You are better off going straightclassed caster (wizard/Div. Or/Loremaster) or more of a "true" gish build where you give up less BAB, but lose more caster levels. With this mix, you won't be as good a caster as a dedicated wizard, nor will you be as good a frontliner as a dedicated gish. Daren
Mommy was an Orc 05-31-06, 03:05 PM	But with a BAB of +8 (yuck) at 15th level, you are not a real front liner. You are better off going straightclassed caster (wizard/Div. Or/Loremaster) or more of a "true" gish build where you give up less BAB, but lose more caster levels. With this mix, you won't be as good a caster as a dedicated wizard, nor will you be as good a frontliner as a dedicated gish. Daren Most of the play doesn't happen at 15th level...the BAB difference is marginal at 12- and he has the immediate advantage of buying Full Plate at level 2 with no regrets - at level 4, he can cast Fist of Stone on himself at the start of battle to give himself a 20 Strength while having a 21 AC without magical armor, no ASF. At 13+, yes, there's a difference and it is still a marginal one - as an example, 14th level Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 5/EK 3's can't cast 5th level spells when he can cast 7th level ones. Such doing Polymorph and Enlarge Person in one round. Turning into Frost Giant with a 35 Strength and all your equipment on round 1 at 15th level tends to equalize out the BAB difference.
Drezden 05-31-06, 04:46 PM	Most of the play doesn't happen at 15th level...the BAB difference is marginal at 12- and he has the immediate advantage of buying Full Plate at level 2 with no regrets - at level 4, he can cast Fist of Stone on himself at the start of battle to give himself a 20 Strength while having a 21 AC without magical armor, no ASF. At 13+, yes, there's a difference and it is still a marginal one - as an example, 14th level Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 5/EK 3's can't cast 5th level spells when he can cast 7th level ones. Such doing Polymorph and Enlarge Person in one round. Turning into Frost Giant with a 35 Strength and all your equipment on round 1 at 15th level tends to equalize out the BAB difference. I don't think you will ever equalize out the BAB difference. A higher level spellsword mix can still cast enlarge person and Polymorph on himself. [Also, many GMs will not let you Quicken Enlarge Person as a swift action.] In fact, they are both minutes per level spells so at 12th+ level they can be up for almost an entire dungeon crawl. This is especially true of Enlarge person with all of the Pearl 1s and Lesser Extend Rods out there. The 13th level spellsword in my group is enlarged for almost every fight. Again, I am just not a big fan of a "frontliner" who ends with an 8 BAB and doesn't even get an iterative attack until 10th level - when a pure fighter is almost ready for his 3rd attack. Will the build have more of a utility function than a "pure gish?" Sure - the increased spell selection assures this. But I don't think it will fill the frontliner role as well. It also won't fill the arcane role as well as a straight arcane with no level loss. Ultimately, I'd rather have a party of specialists that all do their jobs well than a bunch of swiss army knives (*everything else - such as player skill - being equal, of course). Daren
PaulH 06-03-06, 09:02 PM	Hi Though not strictly a 'buffer', Warmage does have couple of 'buffing' spells: Fist of Stone, Fire Shield, Ring of Blades Eldritch Knight is a good Arcane Caster retaining good BAB. Enlightened Fist is also interesting, but with a Cleric's BAB. I'm tempted with Warmage for both of them. Access to True Strike is self-explanatory, but don't forget spells like Fist of Stone (must be 3rd lvl char). D6+ 1 1/2 Str Mod Damage! Plus all the Orb spells, Fire Shield, Poison, Ring of Blades etc. Example Dwarf St 10 De 14 Co 12 In 14 Wi 10 Ch 14 Lvl/Feats 1) Fighter. Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot. 2) Warmage 3) Warmage. Practiced Spellcaster, Warmage 4) Warmage. Advanced Learning (Tenser's Disk) 5) Warmage. 6) Warmage. Extra Edge. 7) Warmage. Advanced Learning (Leomund's Tiny Hut) 8) Eldritch Knight. 9) Eldritch Knight. Battlecaster (Cast spells in medium armour) 10) Eldritch Knight Your BAB is 7/2 You cast spells as 8th lvl Warmage, caster lvl 10 +5 damage to spells (Extra edge, Edge). Note extra +1 for PBS Can cast spells in Medium Armour - no spell failure. (Mithril Full Plate)? :D Important Spells: Lvl 1: True Strike, Fist of Stone (+6 enh bonus Str), Lssr Orbs Lvl 2: Blades of Fire, Scorching Ray, Whirling Blade Lvl 3: Fire Shield, Fireball, Ring of Blades, etc Lvl 4: Evard's Tentacles, Orbs of...., Phantasmal Killer At 7th lvl you have BAB +4. Cast Fire Shield & charge! (Shield does D6+12 damage. No Save. SR Yes). Cheers Paul H