Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zarron 07-24-07, 11:24 AM	I've DM'ed for home groups for awhile now, but as we don't have any other DMs I've been wanting to find groups that I could play in. I did some reading on the different "Living" Campaign Worlds. The vast amount of book-keeping doesn't really bother me too much; I've read over the 597 v7.5 source once. My main questions (and I hope that this is the right place to ask it) are as follows: 1. Is starting Living Greyhawk at this point feasible (will there be enough level 1 adventures/players that I'll actually be able to find groups?) 2. How much of the "History" of Living Greyhawk am I reasonably expected to know? I've never read any of it, so I'm a bit hesitant to commit to something that might involve more study than I currently have time to learn (we never even used the core deities system, so I don't even know that). 3. I only own the core books (PHB, MM, DMG), are there any other books that I should definitely own before starting a Living Greyhawk Campaign? I looked at the Open and Closed section; and I saw that there were a lot of "open" things that I would like, money's not tight so I could get the books, but would playing with only the cores handicap me in any tangible way (I wouldn't imagine it would, but I wanted to know what people who normally play think). 4. I've looked at the Grand Duchy of Geoff's Web site (I live in the VA/DC area) and have been looking at schedules for game days and the like. Would I be right in assuming if I follow the point-buy character creation method, I could show up (assuming I do all the paper work necessary for any of the events beforehand if there is any -- I haven't actually figured out what event, if any, I can attend any time soon) and reasonably expect to play with that character, or should I make several to fill in multiple different roles to make it easier on finding a group (I want to play a Cleric, but should I prepare an Arcane caster, a skills character/rogue, and a melee damage dealer/meat shield just to make sure that I can find a group?) 5. I saw that there was a "play online" option; are there any Web sites that I could find that detail this more? I would imagine that it would be radically different (how would the GM "sign off" on the AR [or is it something else the GM signs off on, I think its AR]?) 6. I'm not up to date on errata/rulings from Wizards of the Coast/Triads/LG authorities; is there a collection somewhere that I could find them to be generally up to date (I've never really looked anything up besides the books I or my players' owned). 7. If this isn't the right place to've asked these questions, I apologize and wonder where would be a better place to get answers? (I'm holding off on e-mailing The Grand Duchy of Geoff till I get more familiar and determine if a Living Campaign is actually going to be something I can do). Thanks! ~ Z.
bitznarf 07-24-07, 11:40 AM	1. Is starting Living Greyhawk at this point feasible (will there be enough level 1 adventures/players that I'll actually be able to find groups?) It shouldn't be a problem. Most players find themselves making more characters as their first ones move beyond the low level mods. Look for an 'intro mod' or 2 (or 3) to get your PC started. 2. How much of the "History" of Living Greyhawk am I reasonably expected to know? I've never read any of it, so I'm a bit hesitant to commit to something that might involve more study than I currently have time to learn (we never even used the core deities system, so I don't even know that). It shouldn't be too much of a problem. Most mods supply the background material to the DM, who can then pass it along if it is appropriate. 3. I only own the core books (PHB, MM, DMG), are there any other books that I should definitely own before starting a Living Greyhawk Campaign? I looked at the Open and Closed section; and I saw that there were a lot of "open" things that I would like, money's not tight so I could get the books, but would playing with only the cores handicap me in any tangible way (I wouldn't imagine it would, but I wanted to know what people who normally play think). You can be quite effective with a core only build, however the ones who lose the most by being restricted to the core 3 tend to be the non-caster types. Druids/Clerics/Wizards/Sorcerers can all get by just fine with only the core 3 books. 4. I've looked at the Grand Duchy of Geoff's Web site (I live in the VA/DC area) and have been looking at schedules for game days and the like. Would I be right in assuming if I follow the point-buy character creation method, I could show up (assuming I do all the paper work necessary for any of the events beforehand if there is any -- I haven't actually figured out what event, if any, I can attend any time soon) and reasonably expect to play with that character, or should I make several to fill in multiple different roles to make it easier on finding a group (I want to play a Cleric, but should I prepare an Arcane caster, a skills character/rogue, and a melee damage dealer/meat shield just to make sure that I can find a group?) I'd recommend getting in contact with folks before you show up to a game day, it makes things go smoother on the whole. And you can get an idea of what may be needed in the area. That being said, I doubt anyone is going to turn a Cleric away from a low level table. Or most any table for that matter. 5. I saw that there was a "play online" option; are there any Web sites that I could find that detail this more? I would imagine that it would be radically different (how would the GM "sign off" on the AR [or is it something else the GM signs off on, I think its AR]?) I'm not sure if there are any websites that detail playing online in any more detail than is in the LGCS. The method of delivering the ARs is left up to each GM. Scanning and emailing them is one of the more prevalent methods. If you are interested in playing online take a peek over here (http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/OnlineGameDay/). 6. I'm not up to date on errata/rulings from Wizards of the Coast/Triads/LG authorities; is there a collection somewhere that I could find them to be generally up to date (I've never really looked anything up besides the books I or my players' owned). You can find the D&D errata documents and FAQ here. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rules) You can find the LG Dispel Confusion articles here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/arch/lgif). And some more miscellaneous rulings here (http://www.theocracyofthepale.com/gamerules/circle_rulings.html) or here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=759998).
copper_wyrmling 07-24-07, 11:51 AM	1. Is starting Living Greyhawk at this point feasible (will there be enough level 1 adventures/players that I'll actually be able to find groups?) That's going to depend on where you are, unless you play online (see below) - but generally it shouldn't be a problem, there are plenty of adventures available to L1 characters, including "intro mods" that can only be played by L1 characters. Most long-term LG players have multiple characters, and have gotten accustomed to starting new characters in order to play intro mods or fit in with low-level tables. 2. How much of the "History" of Living Greyhawk am I reasonably expected to know? I've never read any of it, so I'm a bit hesitant to commit to something that might involve more study than I currently have time to learn (we never even used the core deities system, so I don't even know that). As far as Core mods go, it helps to know some basic geography and history of the world of Greyhawk, but it's not at all essential - if you feel like you're missing something, you can ask the GM or the other players to explain it to you. It tends to be a bit harder to play regionals and metaregionals when you have no idea who the places and people are, but again, you can pick it up just by playing - I've spent very little time out-of-game reading up on Greyhawk canon. 3. I only own the core books (PHB, MM, DMG), are there any other books that I should definitely own before starting a Living Greyhawk Campaign? I looked at the Open and Closed section; and I saw that there were a lot of "open" things that I would like, money's not tight so I could get the books, but would playing with only the cores handicap me in any tangible way (I wouldn't imagine it would, but I wanted to know what people who normally play think). Obviously, you can make a more powerful character by playing with the non-core books as well as the core books, and you may also find nifty access to items from non-core books (and if you don't have the books you can't use the items). That said, you can play a perfectly viable character from L1 to L15 in LG using nothing except the PHB and DMG (it's easiest with spellcasters). Would I be right in assuming if I follow the point-buy character creation method, I could show up (assuming I do all the paper work necessary for any of the events beforehand if there is any -- I haven't actually figured out what event, if any, I can attend any time soon) and reasonably expect to play with that character, or should I make several to fill in multiple different roles to make it easier on finding a group (I want to play a Cleric, but should I prepare an Arcane caster, a skills character/rogue, and a melee damage dealer/meat shield just to make sure that I can find a group?) With a L1 character, you'll want to look for a table of either an intro mod or a game at APL 2 (APL = average party level). You may have to settle for an APL 4 game if everybody else wants to play higher-level characters. In my experience, the priority is getting a legal table together with everyone approximately the same level: it's nice if you get a table that's balanced among the classes, but it doesn't always happen, so don't expect it. I have never seen a table, at any level, that wasn't happy to have a cleric offer to play ;) 5. I saw that there was a "play online" option; are there any Web sites that I could find that detail this more? I would imagine that it would be radically different (how would the GM "sign off" on the AR [or is it something else the GM signs off on, I think its AR]?) http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/OnlineGameDay/ The program most people use is called OpenRPG and is a free download from www.openrpg.com. Usually the GM scans and emails ARs. 6. I'm not up to date on errata/rulings from Wizards of the Coast/Triads/LG authorities; is there a collection somewhere that I could find them to be generally up to date (I've never really looked anything up besides the books I or my players' owned). Official WotC errata can be found here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a The FAQ, which is an official rules source for LG, is here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a And miscellaneous Circle rulings are collected at the wonderful Theocracy of the Pale site: http://www.theocracyofthepale.com/gamerules/circle_rulings.html Hope that helps!
TetsujinOni 07-24-07, 11:52 AM	You can be quite effective with a core only build, however the ones who lose the most by being restricted to the core 3 tend to be the non-caster types. Druids/Clerics/Wizards/Sorcerers can all get by just fine with only the core 3 books. Exception: Cannot recommend highly enough that you pick up Spell Compendium. It's practically speaking the fourth core book for caster classes. Bards and sorcerers are much more effective with it, and there's useful open spells for Cleric as well (vigor tree, deific vengeance, etc).
copper_wyrmling 07-24-07, 11:58 AM	Exception: Cannot recommend highly enough that you pick up Spell Compendium. It's practically speaking the fourth core book for caster classes. Bards and sorcerers are much more effective with it, and there's useful open spells for Cleric as well (vigor tree, deific vengeance, etc). It's a very good book, but you can still make an effective caster without it.
TetsujinOni 07-24-07, 12:05 PM	It's a very good book, but you can still make an effective caster without it. Freely granted, but I stand by Bard, Cleric, and Druid builds suffering from a lack of access to it.
Genghis Cohen 07-24-07, 02:00 PM	1. Is starting Living Greyhawk at this point feasible (will there be enough level 1 adventures/players that I'll actually be able to find groups?)Its never too late. If you really get into the campaign, you will have multiple characters. Your first mod could be with a player who has been playing LG since 2000 and is starting his or her 12th character. 2. How much of the "History" of Living Greyhawk am I reasonably expected to know? I've never read any of it, so I'm a bit hesitant to commit to something that might involve more study than I currently have time to learn (we never even used the core deities system, so I don't even know that).While knowing more is better, mods usually don't require that you have prior knowledge to successfully complete a mission.3. I only own the core books (PHB, MM, DMG), are there any other books that I should definitely own before starting a Living Greyhawk Campaign? I looked at the Open and Closed section; and I saw that there were a lot of "open" things that I would like, money's not tight so I could get the books, but would playing with only the cores handicap me in any tangible way (I wouldn't imagine it would, but I wanted to know what people who normally play think).It really depends on what type of character you want to play. You can start a summoning Druid with only the PHB and be just fine for a while. I agree with TetsujinOni about the value of the Spell Compendium. Also, the PHBII and Magic Item Compendium will be helpful. In addition, you probably will want to get books from the Complete or Race series as you build characters where those options are relevant. I'd buy the books slowly so that you can learn what's going on in each.4. I've looked at the Grand Duchy of Geoff's Web site (I live in the VA/DC area) and have been looking at schedules for game days and the like. Would I be right in assuming if I follow the point-buy character creation method, I could show up (assuming I do all the paper work necessary for any of the events beforehand if there is any -- I haven't actually figured out what event, if any, I can attend any time soon) and reasonably expect to play with that character, or should I make several to fill in multiple different roles to make it easier on finding a group (I want to play a Cleric, but should I prepare an Arcane caster, a skills character/rogue, and a melee damage dealer/meat shield just to make sure that I can find a group?)You want to play a cleric? Play a cleric. I've never heard anyone complain about too many clerics. I will say this; feats for 1st level clerics in the PHB are not the best. This is where owning the PHBII and Complete Divine will help.7. If this isn't the right place to've asked these questions, I apologize and wonder where would be a better place to get answers? (I'm holding off on e-mailing The Grand Duchy of Geoff till I get more familiar and determine if a Living Campaign is actually going to be something I can do).I recommend that you join the Geoff Y! group. There's nothing wrong with introducing yourself as a new LG player. I'm sure that you'll find yourself welcomed by many from your region.
Zarron 07-24-07, 02:09 PM	Thanks for the responses! I'll check out the Y! group later today.
UMiskatonic 07-24-07, 02:10 PM	You don't have to wait for a convention, although you certainly can. Geoff probably has a Yahoo group and a website. Either of those can help you contact other players. Remember, we were all in your shoes at some point. Post something like "New guy, looking for players in my area...". Who knows, maybe there's a guy in your apartment building running a game tomorrow?
TroyEsq 07-24-07, 06:20 PM	Here's two pieces of advice about things that often frustrate new players (not speaking specifically of Geoff because I have little knowledge of play in that region): 1. Make sure that it's part of your character's personality to say "yes" to just about any adventure hook that's thrown your way. For example, if you build a character who is a pure CN mercenary who only works for gold and nothing else, it's possible that your first modules will ask that you do something out of the kindness of your heart. (Don't worry that your character won't reap any rewards from such a request; he very likely will come out the same as if he was purely working for money. But your character doesn't know that.) 2. Living Greyhawk has to be appreciated for what it is. It's not a home game, and it's designed to be played by 1000s of people around the globe. It plays out a lot differently than most home games, and you can't let yourself be frustrated by that.
Zarron 07-24-07, 06:59 PM	Here's two pieces of advice about things that often frustrate new players (not speaking specifically of Geoff because I have little knowledge of play in that region): 1. Make sure that it's part of your character's personality to say "yes" to just about any adventure hook that's thrown your way. For example, if you build a character who is a pure CN mercenary who only works for gold and nothing else, it's possible that your first modules will ask that you do something out of the kindness of your heart. (Don't worry that your character won't reap any rewards from such a request; he very likely will come out the same as if he was purely working for money. But your character doesn't know that.) 1. That's why I wanted to go with a cleric; I decided to go with Boccob, and have the character assume that his deity of knowledge has something to show/teach him about the world -- and will readily accept plot hooks as divine signs that this is the way to go to further his understanding/knowledge.
TroyEsq 07-24-07, 07:24 PM	That's why I wanted to go with a cleric; I decided to go with Boccob, and have the character assume that his deity of knowledge has something to show/teach him about the world -- and will readily accept plot hooks as divine signs that this is the way to go to further his understanding/knowledge. That choice and personality should work out well.
myshkingfh 07-25-07, 10:47 AM	Geoff probably has a Yahoo group and a website. Either of those can help you contact other players. Remember, we were all in your shoes at some point. I just moved from the DC area - there are at least 4 yahoo groups that you may find helpful: Living-Geoff@yahoogroups.com is the Geoff regional yahoo group LG-Maryland@yahoogroups.com is the Maryland LG group lgnova@yahoogroups.com is the northern Virginia LG group dcrpg@yahoogroups.com is the DC Metro rpg group. It is the least active however. I've found that the lgnova group is the most important one for getting games as the two Game Parlor stores that regularly host games are in northern virginia - Chantilly and Woodbridge iirc. Luckily, DC hosts (well Alexandria really, but close enough!) one of the two biggest conventions: the D&D Xperience (the earstwhile Winter Fantasy) in february. Also, the nature of Geoff means that many of its smaller conventions are within easy driving distance of DC, though they're trying to branch out a bit. They will not run out of first level adventures, don't worry about that! A large part of the point of LG is that you can show up with a character and be playing in minutes, so don't let any of the concerns you've listed stop you. After the three core books, I'd buy Spell Compendium, PHB2 and Complete Warrior (which, it seems to me, has the most open access of any of the Complete books). If you need more, the Complete Divine and Complete Adventurer are good. The rest, to me, are a lot more niche-ey. Good luck!
kenobi65 07-25-07, 11:02 AM	Luckily, DC hosts (well Alexandria really, but close enough!) one of the two biggest conventions: the D&D Xperience (the earstwhile Winter Fantasy) in february. Well, I wouldn't say that DDXP is one of the "two biggest conventions"; it's obviously much smaller than GenCon, and I guarantee you that it's also much smaller than Origins. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a number of other conventions, such as Dragon*Con, are bigger than it, too. The distinction is that all of those other conventions are general gaming conventions (or, even more broadly, general sci-fi/fantasy conventions that have a big gaming component). DDXP, on the other hand, is *solely* an RPGA convention (though they also offer D&D miniatures, etc.) WotC and the RPGA have indicated that they plan to make DDXP a primary convention for D&D (they've indicated that any major announcements about the game, which would have previously been made at GenCon, will now happen at DDXP), but, at least though this past year, it's still an RPGA-focused con.
catsclaw 07-25-07, 11:04 AM	1. That's why I wanted to go with a cleric; I decided to go with Boccob, and have the character assume that his deity of knowledge has something to show/teach him about the world -- and will readily accept plot hooks as divine signs that this is the way to go to further his understanding/knowledge.In terms of books, the only two I'd consider "must haves" are the Spell Compendium and the Magic Item Compendium. The Magic Item Compendium is increasingly referenced on AR's, and there's a lot of valuable lower-level magic items that are both nice and affordable for low-level characters. And it's worth looking over the open spells in the Spell Compendium. Beyond that, I'd go to a friendly hobby store and browse through some of the prestige classes and feats in the Complete books -- especially Complete Divine, Complete Adventurer, and Complete Warrior. Maybe in conjunction with reading some of the cleric builds people are discussing on this board. If you see one you really like, you could buy that book; if not you can hold off until you have a specific reason to buy one. You might decide to just level as a pure cleric rather than take any prestige classes, but if not it's very helpful to have an idea of what you're building towards.
catsclaw 07-25-07, 01:38 PM	Oh, and as another thread reminded me, you should make a special effort to play year 6 mods over year 7, given a choice. Because you have 5 months left for year 6 currently, and 17 months of year 7. The best time you'll ever have for module selection is right when you start, so if you have the opportunity you should take advantage of it.
Zarron 07-25-07, 01:50 PM	Ah. Good point, I hadn't even thought of thinking about the rotation. I'll keep in mind the rotation though if I get to pick a module.
Zarron 07-26-07, 02:24 PM	I've signed up for the Yahoo! groups and things are starting to shape up. Thanks again for all the help! I had another question; on the Starting Play section of the D&D Web site it mentions having a miniature or a token to represent your character. Does this have to be an actual representation, or can it simply be a generic mini that I can use for any character I make? Also, I know that LG has a character sheet on the Web site, but is there a better one to use (I looked through the boards and a few places mentioned Hero Forge, so when I get off work I'm going to check that out)?
kenobi65 07-26-07, 02:34 PM	I had another question; on the Starting Play section of the D&D Web site it mentions having a miniature or a token to represent your character. Does this have to be an actual representation, or can it simply be a generic mini that I can use for any character I make? It doesn't need to be exact, but it does need to be recognizeable as yours, and able to fit on the battle mat. (I know quite a few players who only have a couple of minis, and use them for their PCs, regardless of who they're playing.) Also, I know that LG has a character sheet on the Web site, but is there a better one to use (I looked through the boards and a few places mentioned Hero Forge, so when I get off work I'm going to check that out)? I like HeroForge quite a bit; it's not perfect, but they have tried to make it LG-compatible, which is nice.
TetsujinOni 07-26-07, 04:15 PM	I like HeroForge quite a bit; it's not perfect, but they have tried to make it LG-compatible, which is nice. and I'm going to try and help get GRS support in before the next release, currently in 5.1.2.4 beta it has support for most of the things you can do in LG, and I'm trying to make sure it gets better before it gets publicly released (not before Gencon at a guess...)
catsclaw 07-26-07, 05:39 PM	I had another question; on the Starting Play section of the D&D Web site it mentions having a miniature or a token to represent your character. Does this have to be an actual representation, or can it simply be a generic mini that I can use for any character I make?There seems to be someone who brings an unpainted metal mini to every game I play or run, which always feels to me like I'm playing with the Silver Surfer. But I've never seen anyone give anyone else any problems for using any particular mini, up to and including dice. Although I was annoyed by the guy using a Homie (http://www.homiesworld.com/characters/details.aspx?id=49) for his fig. That said, you might want to look around for someplace selling individual WotC D&D figs -- www.iconusa.com is a good place online, and some local game stores do as well -- the commons are usually less than $1, and there's a pretty good selection of "generic" adventurers, although some sets are better than others.
bitznarf 07-26-07, 05:43 PM	I've found that if you bring something like, say, Starburst candies to the table for your mini, you may find that you have a high mortality rate. You eat what you kill after all.
Zarron 07-26-07, 06:13 PM	There seems to be someone who brings an unpainted metal mini to every game I play or run, which always feels to me like I'm playing with the Silver Surfer. But I've never seen anyone give anyone else any problems for using any particular mini, up to and including dice. Although I was annoyed by the guy using a Homie (http://www.homiesworld.com/characters/details.aspx?id=49) for his fig. That said, you might want to look around for someplace selling individual WotC D&D figs -- www.iconusa.com is a good place online, and some local game stores do as well -- the commons are usually less than $1, and there's a pretty good selection of "generic" adventurers, although some sets are better than others. Heh, I wasn't planning on using anything silly. But I was probably going to just try and find a fairly generic "cloaked small sized adventurer" and "cloaked medium sized adventurer". I'll check out the D&D minis.