Suel Arcanamach [Archive] - Wizards Community

Suel Arcanamach [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ithardin
06-24-06, 12:43 AM Your mission (should you choose to accept it) is to create a build for a Suel Arcanamach. Please be as cheesy as possible. There will be "No-Prizes" awarded for:

1. best damage dealer
2. most attacks
3. best spellcaster
4. overall baddest "holy crap!" build...

So, put on your geek helmets and let slip the dogs of PC creation!
JamesMaissen
06-24-06, 01:16 AM Your mission (should you choose to accept it) is to create a build for a Suel Arcanamach.

What are you looking to find in the Arcanamach? It probably doesn't have what you are really wanting.

The name is cool, but at the end of the day you can call yourself whatever you want. And from pure mechanics, there's not a whole lot of good stuff there.

-James
ithardin
06-24-06, 09:46 AM I'm not really looking for anything, I just want to see what the brethren and sistern can do with this cool-sounding name of a prestige class. Of course if an all-round butt kicker PC should happen to show him/herself...

If you want to instead create a better fighter/arcane caster then by all means...I just think it would be interesting to see what can be done with this class.
PaulH
06-24-06, 07:12 PM Hi

The buildwould depend on what your motivation is. What 'arcane' spells you thinking of casting?

Simplest answer is Hexblade6/Suel...............
The Hexblade would be trading greater freedom for choice for fewer spells known. There is also the problem with Spell Failure - Hexblade's spells have none with Light Armour, the Arcanamach's do. (But reduces failure as you advance in levels).

If you want to use arcane items without huge costs in UMD, then try a Cleric of Boccob.
Magic Domain allows you to use magic items as a wizard (half your level), Trickery has spells like Invisibility, but Force has some nice damage spells, (Magic Missile, Blast of Force), plus Mage Armour, Wall of Force, etc, in addition to all your Cleric stuff. Once per day you can even roll Damage twice & take best roll!

Fharlanghn has Celerity & Travel domains, excellent buffer with Cat's Grace, Blur, Fly, Teleport, etc as domain spells. Plus nice Granted Powers.

Lastly, Grey Elf (Int 18) Swashbuckler 3/Warmage..... (with Practiced Spellcaster feat). High dex touch attack - using wpn finesse, Shocking Grasp 5d6+8 electric damage! Insightful Strike + Edge both stack, using Int). Shielded caster prevents AoO casting spells.

Cheers
Paul H
Iswald
06-25-06, 12:13 AM Lastly, Grey Elf (Int 18) Swashbuckler 3/Warmage..... (with Practiced Spellcaster feat). High dex touch attack - using wpn finesse, Shocking Grasp 5d6+8 electric damage! Insightful Strike + Edge both stack, using Int). Shielded caster prevents AoO casting spells.

Personally, I don't care for Shielded Caster since you have to spend two feats. It seems better to just raise your concentration enough that you can cast defensively. With a high int character such as this, it shouldn't be a problem.
ithardin
06-25-06, 09:03 PM "...Lastly, Grey Elf..."

I doubled checked the requirements and I CAN'T BELIEVE that it doesn't have "must be Suel" as one of them!

My goal, to answer a previous question-is to create a one-man engine of destruction who can meld his martial prowess with his arcane might. I like the Arcanamach from an RP/Flavor point of view, and wondered if any of you had any ideas.

Ian
Iswald
06-25-06, 11:00 PM It's a limited PrC, so I don't really think about it. Also, there have been discussions on it in the past which have shown that it can be effective in some builds. But, there are many other more effective ways of doing the same thing.
JamesMaissen
06-27-06, 12:50 AM "...Lastly, Grey Elf..."

I doubled checked the requirements and I CAN'T BELIEVE that it doesn't have "must be Suel" as one of them!

My goal, to answer a previous question-is to create a one-man engine of destruction who can meld his martial prowess with his arcane might. I like the Arcanamach from an RP/Flavor point of view, and wondered if any of you had any ideas.

Ian

My suggestion is to make a fighter/MU and call yourself a Suel Arcanamach. Just because a PrC has a cool name, doesn't make it a cool PrC. Likewise you can call yourself a "Scout" without mechanical levels in the Scout class (for example).

The PrC is nothing good.

You drop two near useless feats (combat casting, iron will).

It doesn't have full BAB.

Casts based off CHA spontaneously but with few slots (ie like a Bard).

Not even full spell list for spell completion.

Suffers from spell failure, and reductions are too slow (SpellSword works much better, and other minor casters out there can even wear armor from the getgo).

Take my advice and go with other 'Gish' builds and you'll be a much stronger and happier.

-James
Paul H
06-27-06, 10:12 AM Hi

Besides - if you want an unusual PrC with an Arcane caster, try Rainbow Servant. Difficult bit is the Coatl prereq.

However, when you retire at 16th lvl you''ll be a sponataneous caster with all the Warmage AND Cleric spells known, plus domains spells & powers from Good, Air & Law domains. And you still have FULL caster levels! (Text vs Table debate).

All for losing a few 'Sudden' feats etc.

Although you'll be 16th lvl (Warmage 6/Servant 10) before you get full Cleric access, it does make for an interesting High Level character! ;)

Cheers
Paul H
PS If this sounds bit beardy, I'm a short stout fellow, from a long line of miners...... :D
Lomiat
06-27-06, 03:51 PM Human
Str 14
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 15 (all bumps to CHA)

1-Rog - Quicken Spell, ?
2-Pal
3-Pal - Combat Casting
4-Pal
5-Pal
6-Rog -Divine Metamagic: Quicken Spell
7-11 - Suel Arcanamach

I can't remember what feat is required beside Combat Casting. Take it asap, 1st level if able. Your feats won't do much for you until the DMM:Quicken, but early skill points + CHA allows you to play a nice Diplomat. The Save bonus plays in nicely, and, later, your damage comes from Power Attacking (9th level) with Smite and DMM:Quickened Divine Sacrifice.

This is off the top of my head, without an understanding of how exactly the S.A's spells work, but I thought I'd try to answer the OP's question rather than keep going off on tangents...
GreySector
06-27-06, 04:34 PM Here are two Suel Arcanamach builds I put together a couple of months ago. I worked out the skills so that they qualified for access to the class through a Yeomanry metaorg.

Both builds only drop 2 BAB over 15 levels (when you take the Arcanamach levels)

(Another note: I am assuming that the ignore spell failure abilities of the Spellsword and Suel Arcanamach stack)

Human
Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 14

1st - Rng1 - Combat Casting, Iron Will, Track (B) - Favored Enemy (x), Wild Empathy
2nd - Pal1 - Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1/day
3rd - Pal2 - Improved Buckler Defense - Divine Grace, Lay on Hands
4th - Pal3 - Aura of Courage, Divine Health
5th - Pal4 - Turn Undead
6th - Rng2 - Divine Vigor, Rapid Shot (B)
7th - Rng3 - Endurance (B)
8th - Suel Arcanamach1 - Ignore Spell Failure 5%, Tenacious Spells
9th - SAr2 - Practiced Spellcaster (SAr) - Dispelling Strike 1/day
10th - SAr3 - Extended Spellstrength
11th - SAr4 - Ignore Spell Failure 10%
12th - Spellsword1 - Extra Smiting - Ignore Spell Failure 10% (20% total)
13th - SAr5 -
14th - SAr6 - Dispelling Strike 2/day
15th - SAr7 - [feat] - Ignore Spell Failure 15% (25% total)

This build has pretty decent base saves (Fort and Ref to begin with, and Wil catches up by 12th level) of Fort +11 / Ref +8 / Wil +8 at 14th level. You've also got a first level Paladin spell to play around with, plus Divine Grace and Turn Undead to power a divine feat of your choice (I chose Divine Vigor).

It seems like combining Smite Evil and Dispelling Strike might be a neat trick.

Human
Str 14, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 15

1st - Rng1 - Combat Casting, Iron Will, Track (B) - Favored Enemy (x), Wild Empathy
2nd - Hexblade1 - Hexblade's Curse 1/day
3rd - Hxb2 - Power Attack - Arcane Resistance
4th - Hxb3 - Mettle
5th - Ftr1 - Combat Expertise
6th - Hxb4 - Goad
7th - Suel Arcanamach1 - Ignore Spell Failure 5%, Tenacious Spells
8th - SAr2 - Practiced Spellcaster (SAr) - Dispelling Strike 1/day
9th - SAr3 - [feat] - Extended Spellstrength
10th - SAr4 - Ignore Spell Failure 10%
11th - Spellsword1 - Ignore Spell Failure 10% (20% total)
12th - SAr5 - Practiced Spellcaster (Suel Arcanamach)
13th - SAr6 - Dispelling Strike 2/day
14th - SAr7 - Ignore Spell Failure 15% (25% total)
15th - SAr8 - [feat]

This build has pretty decent base saves throughout the progression capping at Fort +9 / Ref +9 / Wil +11 at 15th level. You've also got a first level Hexblade spell to play around with. Compared to the first build you effectively exchange Divine Grace for Arcane Resistance and Turn Undead for Mettle.

There are some feat holes you could use for Improved Buckler Defense and/or Improved Combat Expertise. I sort of envision this build buffing itself a bit, using Dispelling Strike on a foe and then corking using Goad and Combat Expertise/Improved Combat Expertise.

You could also pick up a combat maneuver feat like Bull Rush, Improved Trip or Improved Disarm, or an Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
ithardin
06-29-06, 01:23 AM Thanks. I actually like the "call yourself one" idea...

Me: I am a Suel Arcanamach.
NPC: no you aren't.
Me: Have you ever seen a Suel Arcanamach?
NPC: no...
Me: Then what proof do you have that I am not one?

Thanks for the build ideas and the constructive criticism.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ithardin 06-24-06, 12:43 AM	Your mission (should you choose to accept it) is to create a build for a Suel Arcanamach. Please be as cheesy as possible. There will be "No-Prizes" awarded for: 1. best damage dealer 2. most attacks 3. best spellcaster 4. overall baddest "holy crap!" build... So, put on your geek helmets and let slip the dogs of PC creation!
JamesMaissen 06-24-06, 01:16 AM	Your mission (should you choose to accept it) is to create a build for a Suel Arcanamach. What are you looking to find in the Arcanamach? It probably doesn't have what you are really wanting. The name is cool, but at the end of the day you can call yourself whatever you want. And from pure mechanics, there's not a whole lot of good stuff there. -James
ithardin 06-24-06, 09:46 AM	I'm not really looking for anything, I just want to see what the brethren and sistern can do with this cool-sounding name of a prestige class. Of course if an all-round butt kicker PC should happen to show him/herself... If you want to instead create a better fighter/arcane caster then by all means...I just think it would be interesting to see what can be done with this class.
PaulH 06-24-06, 07:12 PM	Hi The buildwould depend on what your motivation is. What 'arcane' spells you thinking of casting? Simplest answer is Hexblade6/Suel............... The Hexblade would be trading greater freedom for choice for fewer spells known. There is also the problem with Spell Failure - Hexblade's spells have none with Light Armour, the Arcanamach's do. (But reduces failure as you advance in levels). If you want to use arcane items without huge costs in UMD, then try a Cleric of Boccob. Magic Domain allows you to use magic items as a wizard (half your level), Trickery has spells like Invisibility, but Force has some nice damage spells, (Magic Missile, Blast of Force), plus Mage Armour, Wall of Force, etc, in addition to all your Cleric stuff. Once per day you can even roll Damage twice & take best roll! Fharlanghn has Celerity & Travel domains, excellent buffer with Cat's Grace, Blur, Fly, Teleport, etc as domain spells. Plus nice Granted Powers. Lastly, Grey Elf (Int 18) Swashbuckler 3/Warmage..... (with Practiced Spellcaster feat). High dex touch attack - using wpn finesse, Shocking Grasp 5d6+8 electric damage! Insightful Strike + Edge both stack, using Int). Shielded caster prevents AoO casting spells. Cheers Paul H
Iswald 06-25-06, 12:13 AM	Lastly, Grey Elf (Int 18) Swashbuckler 3/Warmage..... (with Practiced Spellcaster feat). High dex touch attack - using wpn finesse, Shocking Grasp 5d6+8 electric damage! Insightful Strike + Edge both stack, using Int). Shielded caster prevents AoO casting spells. Personally, I don't care for Shielded Caster since you have to spend two feats. It seems better to just raise your concentration enough that you can cast defensively. With a high int character such as this, it shouldn't be a problem.
ithardin 06-25-06, 09:03 PM	"...Lastly, Grey Elf..." I doubled checked the requirements and I CAN'T BELIEVE that it doesn't have "must be Suel" as one of them! My goal, to answer a previous question-is to create a one-man engine of destruction who can meld his martial prowess with his arcane might. I like the Arcanamach from an RP/Flavor point of view, and wondered if any of you had any ideas. Ian
Iswald 06-25-06, 11:00 PM	It's a limited PrC, so I don't really think about it. Also, there have been discussions on it in the past which have shown that it can be effective in some builds. But, there are many other more effective ways of doing the same thing.
JamesMaissen 06-27-06, 12:50 AM	"...Lastly, Grey Elf..." I doubled checked the requirements and I CAN'T BELIEVE that it doesn't have "must be Suel" as one of them! My goal, to answer a previous question-is to create a one-man engine of destruction who can meld his martial prowess with his arcane might. I like the Arcanamach from an RP/Flavor point of view, and wondered if any of you had any ideas. Ian My suggestion is to make a fighter/MU and call yourself a Suel Arcanamach. Just because a PrC has a cool name, doesn't make it a cool PrC. Likewise you can call yourself a "Scout" without mechanical levels in the Scout class (for example). The PrC is nothing good. You drop two near useless feats (combat casting, iron will). It doesn't have full BAB. Casts based off CHA spontaneously but with few slots (ie like a Bard). Not even full spell list for spell completion. Suffers from spell failure, and reductions are too slow (SpellSword works much better, and other minor casters out there can even wear armor from the getgo). Take my advice and go with other 'Gish' builds and you'll be a much stronger and happier. -James
Paul H 06-27-06, 10:12 AM	Hi Besides - if you want an unusual PrC with an Arcane caster, try Rainbow Servant. Difficult bit is the Coatl prereq. However, when you retire at 16th lvl you''ll be a sponataneous caster with all the Warmage AND Cleric spells known, plus domains spells & powers from Good, Air & Law domains. And you still have FULL caster levels! (Text vs Table debate). All for losing a few 'Sudden' feats etc. Although you'll be 16th lvl (Warmage 6/Servant 10) before you get full Cleric access, it does make for an interesting High Level character! ;) Cheers Paul H PS If this sounds bit beardy, I'm a short stout fellow, from a long line of miners...... :D
Lomiat 06-27-06, 03:51 PM	Human Str 14 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 15 (all bumps to CHA) 1-Rog - Quicken Spell, ? 2-Pal 3-Pal - Combat Casting 4-Pal 5-Pal 6-Rog -Divine Metamagic: Quicken Spell 7-11 - Suel Arcanamach I can't remember what feat is required beside Combat Casting. Take it asap, 1st level if able. Your feats won't do much for you until the DMM:Quicken, but early skill points + CHA allows you to play a nice Diplomat. The Save bonus plays in nicely, and, later, your damage comes from Power Attacking (9th level) with Smite and DMM:Quickened Divine Sacrifice. This is off the top of my head, without an understanding of how exactly the S.A's spells work, but I thought I'd try to answer the OP's question rather than keep going off on tangents...
GreySector 06-27-06, 04:34 PM	Here are two Suel Arcanamach builds I put together a couple of months ago. I worked out the skills so that they qualified for access to the class through a Yeomanry metaorg. Both builds only drop 2 BAB over 15 levels (when you take the Arcanamach levels) (Another note: I am assuming that the ignore spell failure abilities of the Spellsword and Suel Arcanamach stack) Human Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 14 1st - Rng1 - Combat Casting, Iron Will, Track (B) - Favored Enemy (x), Wild Empathy 2nd - Pal1 - Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1/day 3rd - Pal2 - Improved Buckler Defense - Divine Grace, Lay on Hands 4th - Pal3 - Aura of Courage, Divine Health 5th - Pal4 - Turn Undead 6th - Rng2 - Divine Vigor, Rapid Shot (B) 7th - Rng3 - Endurance (B) 8th - Suel Arcanamach1 - Ignore Spell Failure 5%, Tenacious Spells 9th - SAr2 - Practiced Spellcaster (SAr) - Dispelling Strike 1/day 10th - SAr3 - Extended Spellstrength 11th - SAr4 - Ignore Spell Failure 10% 12th - Spellsword1 - Extra Smiting - Ignore Spell Failure 10% (20% total) 13th - SAr5 - 14th - SAr6 - Dispelling Strike 2/day 15th - SAr7 - [feat] - Ignore Spell Failure 15% (25% total) This build has pretty decent base saves (Fort and Ref to begin with, and Wil catches up by 12th level) of Fort +11 / Ref +8 / Wil +8 at 14th level. You've also got a first level Paladin spell to play around with, plus Divine Grace and Turn Undead to power a divine feat of your choice (I chose Divine Vigor). It seems like combining Smite Evil and Dispelling Strike might be a neat trick. Human Str 14, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 15 1st - Rng1 - Combat Casting, Iron Will, Track (B) - Favored Enemy (x), Wild Empathy 2nd - Hexblade1 - Hexblade's Curse 1/day 3rd - Hxb2 - Power Attack - Arcane Resistance 4th - Hxb3 - Mettle 5th - Ftr1 - Combat Expertise 6th - Hxb4 - Goad 7th - Suel Arcanamach1 - Ignore Spell Failure 5%, Tenacious Spells 8th - SAr2 - Practiced Spellcaster (SAr) - Dispelling Strike 1/day 9th - SAr3 - [feat] - Extended Spellstrength 10th - SAr4 - Ignore Spell Failure 10% 11th - Spellsword1 - Ignore Spell Failure 10% (20% total) 12th - SAr5 - Practiced Spellcaster (Suel Arcanamach) 13th - SAr6 - Dispelling Strike 2/day 14th - SAr7 - Ignore Spell Failure 15% (25% total) 15th - SAr8 - [feat] This build has pretty decent base saves throughout the progression capping at Fort +9 / Ref +9 / Wil +11 at 15th level. You've also got a first level Hexblade spell to play around with. Compared to the first build you effectively exchange Divine Grace for Arcane Resistance and Turn Undead for Mettle. There are some feat holes you could use for Improved Buckler Defense and/or Improved Combat Expertise. I sort of envision this build buffing itself a bit, using Dispelling Strike on a foe and then corking using Goad and Combat Expertise/Improved Combat Expertise. You could also pick up a combat maneuver feat like Bull Rush, Improved Trip or Improved Disarm, or an Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
ithardin 06-29-06, 01:23 AM	Thanks. I actually like the "call yourself one" idea... Me: I am a Suel Arcanamach. NPC: no you aren't. Me: Have you ever seen a Suel Arcanamach? NPC: no... Me: Then what proof do you have that I am not one? Thanks for the build ideas and the constructive criticism.