Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TetsujinOni 06-08-07, 03:25 PM	You may not take any rules item for which you do not have campaign documentation. The LGCS is campaign documentation. The following rule items are Open: [List similar to current Open] The following rule items will never be Open --- This is the effective state of affairs in 597, but it seems that this states the rule more succinctly and with less chance of confusion. Thoughts?
_metz_ 06-08-07, 10:22 PM	You may not take any rules item for which you do not have campaign documentation. The LGCS is campaign documentation. The following rule items are Open: [List similar to current Open] The following rule items will never be Open --- This is the effective state of affairs in 597, but it seems that this states the rule more succinctly and with less chance of confusion. Thoughts? Open and closed is very clear. Its the issue of NONC that some people - who oft fail to bother to READ the document, seem to have issue with. It would be wiser to bring back the limited access term, to draw attention to the fact. However it really already SAYS that - if its not open you can't use it without access. Its pretty darn clear. If its closed - NO USE FOR YOU - also exceedingly clear, and if its open, then you can use it. It isn't even an arguement over semantics, if you READ the access section I don't see how it is NOT clear.
pedr 06-09-07, 08:32 AM	The conceptual difficulty is that the way the LGCS is written, 'Closed' could seem to apply both to things on the Closed list in the LGCS and to things which are not Open for a particular PC. ('Closed' is the logical opposite of 'Open', and things are usually either one or the other, not somwhere in between; athough timlagor's 'Ajar' makes some sense in the context, a door which is ajar is also either open or closed depending on the degree of 'ajar-ness' and the reason for querying its state. Other things, such as containers, bottles, windows, etc are more easily seen as being either open or closed but never in between) The recent dispel confusion officially recognises that there is an undefined space between Open and Closed which makes it more sensible to give this space some kind of label. Removing the word 'Closed' would add to this sense of a category of things which has no name. However I do like the basic idea. I'd rename the banned list (again) to something explicit, such as 'Banned', or 'Unavailable'. I'd say: "A PC can use any rules item which is specifically made Open for that PC by Living Greyhawk Campaign Documentation. The following list of items is Open for all PCs. <list>. The following list of items is Unavailable to PCs in the campaign and will never be made Open. Campaign Documentation purporting to make them Open is in error. <list>. All other rules items from official D&D products can only be taken by PCs who have Campaign Documentation making them Open." There's some repetition there, but I think it could bring the point home. It wouldn't help to create language to help discussion, but that's not the primary reason for having a classification system.
The_Jester 06-09-07, 09:37 AM	Haven't met anyone yet who didn't know you could get something that wasn't on the Open list through ARs. I'm sure for totally new players it's a bit of a learning curve, but so is everything else in LG. It's fairly obvious. There's "open" which you can take and "closed" that you cannot. And campaign documentation can make things "open" for you.
IMarvinTPA 06-09-07, 10:32 AM	I just wish that they would add something like this to the LGCS: "______: Anything not listed as Open or listed as Closed is ______." Or "Locked: You may not take advantaged of Locked rules items until it becomes Open by campaign documentation granting you access to the new rules option." Maybe the term is currently "New Rules Option" ? IMarv
Mocoso 06-12-07, 03:05 PM	I just wish that they would add something like this to the LGCS: "______: Anything not listed as Open or listed as Closed is ______." Or "Locked: You may not take advantaged of Locked rules items until it becomes Open by campaign documentation granting you access to the new rules option." Maybe the term is currently "New Rules Option" ? IMarv LOCKED is a gorram great way of putting it, but again is the gorram triads saying don't give a gorram name or gorram people will gorram want it, which is gorram stupid. Much better than gorram limited which okay makes it sound like special or nice, and much gorram better than gorram NONC whoich is not a gorram word at all. Gorram it! lol
TetsujinOni 06-12-07, 04:37 PM	Right, and the solution I'm suggesting is using the term "open" for those items you can have, and everything else is "not open". " If you have campaign documentation, a rule item is open to you. The LGCS is campaign documentation. The following rule items are open to all players:" (open list appendix). If there's an author-only document, and/or a list of "never, ever, ever" rule items, those don't need to be in the LGCS, but maybe should be in the public eye rather than not.
Britt 06-12-07, 04:41 PM	A list of never, ever rules options HAS to be in the LGCS. It covers the instances where someone might have gotten access incorrectly somehow. If it didn't, I would have been able to make the lists simpler and probably cleanup the terminology. There have to be two lists in the LGCS, and there cannot be a third.
ShinAkuma2 06-13-07, 01:18 AM	There doesn't need to be a third term. Things on the Open list are Open. Things on the Closed are Closed. Things on neither list are Closed, but through campaign documentation, can become Open. There's no need for more terminology.
IMarvinTPA 06-13-07, 08:47 AM	I can't label everything in my Database "Closed" because that would mean no players are ever able to use any of the not truely closed items. "Closed" means that under no circumstance is a player to have that thing. "Open" means that you can use it freely, and that's a lie too. So, that leaves a gray area that is unlabeled. What is the label of the Gray area? IMarv
pedr 06-13-07, 09:52 AM	It depends what uses your database will be put to. In the end it doesn't really matter - you might want to note that in the campaign these things have no status: they are made available to players by campaign documentation. You could create a label, if you need one. You could say: this lists all available items. If you receive campaign documentation making something else available, do <x> to list it as Open. If an item is marked as Closed, you will never receive campaign documentation making it available.
Mocoso 06-13-07, 10:14 AM	What is the label of the Gray area? Locked. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
TetsujinOni 06-13-07, 12:49 PM	IMarvin's DB is fairly nice; Unlockable definitely seems workable for the rule items in question. That said, I think a little CSS+js work on the site would do a lot for its usability, the selector regions are HUGE....
IMarvinTPA 06-13-07, 02:39 PM	IMarvin's DB is fairly nice; Unlockable definitely seems workable for the rule items in question. That said, I think a little CSS+js work on the site would do a lot for its usability, the selector regions are HUGE.... My time is limited and my choices are: Add more of what I have. Add more types of things in the database. (Classes are broiling on my laptop.) or Be artistic and try to make things pretty, which is hard for the technical geek that I am. As a hobby, I can do only so much. Making it into a subscription site failed. The lottery commission keeps telling me that if I want to win, I have to play and get the right numbers!
pneumatik 06-14-07, 09:55 AM	I just wanted to state my support for the OP's suggestion. If you can use it, it's Open. If it's not Open for your PC, you can't use it. No Closed, no NONC/ajar/locked/grey/whatever. Yeah, I like it.
IMarvinTPA 06-14-07, 10:27 AM	Let's say there are two classes of things. Living, and Dead. There is no mention of any other state. (Undead is not a term). Living is anything that has an organismic state characterized by capacity for metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction. Dead is inert matter of something that was once living. What is a Zombie? The Susans/Ajar/NONC/Unlockable/Locked/grey of LGCS are the Zombies of my example. It isn't like all the undead go away if you strike the term. I'm sure Pale would be a better place if that were true. IMarv
TetsujinOni 06-14-07, 03:14 PM	My time is limited and my choices are: Add more of what I have. Add more types of things in the database. (Classes are broiling on my laptop.) or Be artistic and try to make things pretty, which is hard for the technical geek that I am. As a hobby, I can do only so much. Making it into a subscription site failed. The lottery commission keeps telling me that if I want to win, I have to play and get the right numbers! Hear that lound and clear; my local player planning and mustering database keeps trying to take over my brain and make me build out a business logic framework on top of it...