Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bob_the_Theurge 03-27-07, 12:02 PM	So the mailing's gone out. One the one hand, I'm glad to see LG finally getting some respect in its own set of campaign cards. On the other hand... what is going on with the "you have the right to create a character of X sort" card finding its way into LG? All sorts of questions on this card: - If you use it, are you REQUIRED to make your character a resident of the Crystalmist Mountains? - If not, and you don't choose to make your character a resident of the Crystalmist, can you then later change your residency? (Example: start up a resident Snow Elf of Dyvers, then move it to the Yeomanry the next year)? - If this card is used to create a character, does it need to be presented every time the character is played? Does it use up one of your card slots for the table? - WHY do this? Wasn't the "access" to specified races "only for" the Bright Sands storyline silly enough?
LachlarlanIII 03-27-07, 12:56 PM	Where did you see LG cards? Can you provide a link?
pedr 03-27-07, 01:30 PM	Are these cards pre-approved (as they have 'Living Greyhawk' on them)? Or are they not usable until the Circle issues a DC about them? If (as I expect) it is the latter, are communications between the Circle and HQ sufficiently strong now that the DC could say: "In future, all Living Greyhawk branded campaign cards can be used as soon as they are received"? I.e. that they have been checked and approved by the Circle ahead of being printed?
kenobi65 03-27-07, 01:55 PM	Are these cards pre-approved (as they have 'Living Greyhawk' on them)? Or are they not usable until the Circle issues a DC about them? If (as I expect) it is the latter, are communications between the Circle and HQ sufficiently strong now that the DC could say: "In future, all Living Greyhawk branded campaign cards can be used as soon as they are received"? I.e. that they have been checked and approved by the Circle ahead of being printed? Actually, I believe the intent was the former. We'll have to wait and see.
Britt 03-27-07, 05:06 PM	The Circle wrote the LG cards, so they are already approved by us. You can use them as soon as you get them.
pedr 03-27-07, 05:10 PM	:) Fantastic news.
Alpha_Nerd 03-27-07, 05:18 PM	So, does a character creation card take a permanent slot for a character? And I assume like other documentation it needs to be with you when you play the character or you can not play him?
Britt 03-27-07, 05:47 PM	So, does a character creation card take a permanent slot for a character? And I assume like other documentation it needs to be with you when you play the character or you can not play him? If you were not using the card, the race would not be Open for you and your character would be illegal. So, yes, you must have and use the card when playing that character.
bitznarf 03-27-07, 05:48 PM	Where did you see LG cards? Can you provide a link? :bump:
kenobi65 03-27-07, 05:49 PM	I don't believe they've been posted on the RPGA site yet (I may be mistaken). I think the point was that a few people have finally been getting this mailing in their mailboxes.
Crazy Boro 03-27-07, 05:51 PM	IIRC, they posted what they were on the Living Greyhawk yahoo group shortly after DDXP when they were unveiled. I think the only new one is the Snow Elf creation card and the 4 others for LG are reprints from previous sets.
Britt 03-27-07, 05:54 PM	From memory: Item card: Standard action, gives one enemy a -2 on d20 rolls for 2 rounds. Creation card: Snow Elf +8 bonus on one STR check Ignore fatigue for Con-modifier rounds Reprint of Not This Time (I think that's what it was)
Crazy Boro 03-27-07, 06:01 PM	From memory: Item card: Standard action, gives one enemy a -2 on d20 rolls for 2 rounds. Creation card: Snow Elf +8 bonus on one STR check Ignore fatigue for Con-modifier rounds Reprint of Not This Time (I think that's what it was) Thanks Britt! Now to hope I get those and not the XE cards in the set. They really should get an option for preference on what game cards (LG or XE) you want to receive if the LG cards become a regular occurence. :D
Bob_the_Theurge 03-27-07, 06:18 PM	Great, Britt. Now regarding the OTHER questions on the Snow Elf card.....?
Britt 03-27-07, 08:59 PM	Great, Britt. Now regarding the OTHER questions on the Snow Elf card.....? I'm waiting for my cards so I can read the text and give a definitive answer. I believe you HAVE to take Crystalmists as your home region and can't change it.
Mithreinmaethor 03-28-07, 04:57 AM	Yeah I am waiting on my cards also. Was glad to see they werent sitting on the table when I got home from Aggiecon. I think I have 2 LG legal cards and I was waiting on this mailing (think I am getting 6 or 9) to get me something I can use
Madfox11 03-28-07, 06:08 AM	IIRC, they posted what they were on the Living Greyhawk yahoo group shortly after DDXP when they were unveiled. I think the only new one is the Snow Elf creation card and the 4 others for LG are reprints from previous sets. Incorrect. Only 1 card is a reprint. All the others are new.
Timlagor 03-28-07, 12:01 PM	And I'm hoping for the reprint :D (Feign Surprise was certainly very welcome :))
GreatSiron 03-28-07, 04:06 PM	I just want to get "one" of the LG cards, and preferably not the snow elf. I have enough low level characters already. Now the one that gives -2 to d20 rolls? My wizard would love to get some of that.
Bob_the_Theurge 03-28-07, 04:54 PM	I'm waiting for my cards so I can read the text and give a definitive answer. I believe you HAVE to take Crystalmists as your home region and can't change it. Well, let us know when you get the card then. If it is worded that way, please speak to them about errata'ing it or changing it with the next Dispel Confusion, because that would make taking a Snow Elf a retarded choice.
gomeztoo 03-29-07, 06:47 AM	I don't see the problem with it. I think it is better to require a specific region for odd races. I would have liked asherati/centaurs to be limited to home region: Bright Sands. It makes sense. Otherwise we suddenly get Sunndi snow elves? They are not regional, they would make no sense at all. And I don't think it is such a sacrifice.
LachlarlanIII 03-29-07, 09:44 AM	I got my cards yesterday, and I must say, the "Feat of Strength" card is awesome! A +8 bonus to your next Strength check or Strength based skill check?! Trip/Bull Rush heaven!:D Are these cards legal immediately or do we have to wait for something?
Madfox11 03-29-07, 10:33 AM	Using them for trip/bull rush thing might not be a good idea under most circumstances... using the card does cause a penalty to Strength and Dexterity for a short time.
LachlarlanIII 03-29-07, 10:38 AM	Using them for trip/bull rush thing might not be a good idea under most circumstances... using the card does cause a penalty to Strength and Dexterity for a short time. When your Strength is near 30 it hardly makes a difference. It's also great for the generic "bash down this door that requires a DC 30 Str check"
Maesto 03-29-07, 12:43 PM	I'm sorry... Take one of my friend's characters, Grog. Grog is a Barbarian 2/Fighter 6/Exotic Weapon Master 1 essentially. Base strength of 20. Reckless Rage, gets strength to 26. An eventual Belt of Giant Strength +6 gets to 32. Three bumps (by twelfth level) gets to 35. Access to a book of Str + 1, dunno if cash is worth it but hey, let's chuck that in. Strength 36, gives a +13 modifier on strength checks. The feat "Destructive Rage" is in the build, so +21 to breaking things. Also, add in the armbands of might to get to +23, and a battering ram gives a +2 bonus, or +4 if somebody else is helping and makes the assist roll. So we're at +27. Play the card for +8 to get to +35 on the strength check to break things. If we're feeling lucky, add in prayer or guidance for a further +1, and a bard's inspire competence for a further +2, or +38 on the strength check. Now I've seen castle walls statted before, with a break DC of 50. This character _will_ be breaking those, thanks to a card. I'm rather looking forward to seeing the GM's face when it happens.
bitznarf 03-29-07, 12:51 PM	Add in say.. a Marshal with a Str aura. Sure it would be a silly choice optimization wise, but it could happen.
Simpi 03-29-07, 01:07 PM	I'm rather looking forward to seeing the GM's face when it happens. And that is the main point why you play LG, is it? Sampo Haarlaa Naerie Triad
zigspatty 03-29-07, 01:09 PM	I got the "snow elf" card! Exact text says: ICE CITIES OF THE CRYSTALMISTS BENEFIT: You may take the Crystalmist Mountains as your home region. You cannot change your home region. This card unlocks the snow elf subrace from Frostburn. Snow elves are similar to high elves (the standard elven race in the Player's Handbook), but their ability modifiers are +2 Dexterity and -2 Charisma, instead of the normal elven modifiers. I also got a "Charm of the Fortunate" which provides a -2 penalty to AC, saving throws, and attacks for one round to one enemy that you choose. Along with the "Not This Time" card, this is definitely one of my better packets of reward cards.....
LachlarlanIII 03-29-07, 02:07 PM	Based on the text of the card you can play a Snow Elf that doesn't come from the Crystalmists, but you still cannot change your home region. ICE CITIES OF THE CRYSTALMISTS BENEFIT: You may take the Crystalmist Mountains as your home region. You cannot change your home region. This card unlocks the snow elf subrace from Frostburn. Snow elves are similar to high elves (the standard elven race in the Player's Handbook), but their ability modifiers are +2 Dexterity and -2 Charisma, instead of the normal elven modifiers. This may not be as it was intended though.
ragecage79 03-29-07, 05:02 PM	Well, let us know when you get the card then. If it is worded that way, please speak to them about errata'ing it or changing it with the next Dispel Confusion, because that would make taking a Snow Elf a retarded choice. Wait, so you can make an elf without the con hit and this is a "retarded choice"? Weren't people complaining that LG wasn't being recognised by the RPGA rewards program? Figures that when the RPGA starts rewarding LG again that the complaining would start right up. I, for one, am cool with the option and would welcome more in the future. Kudos to the Circle for working this out.
Britt 03-29-07, 05:04 PM	The intent of the card was "must", not "may". I will discuss it with the others and figure out how to handle the card.
Mithreinmaethor 03-29-07, 05:11 PM	Ok I still have not got my cards. Grumble
Fleetfang 03-29-07, 05:20 PM	BIG thanks are owed to the RPGA and to the Circle who was always in our corner when it came to bringing LG-centric rewards back to the RPGA Rewards program. And to the complainers: contact me by PM and I'll give you my address so you can get rid of the cards you don't want. The stuff is FREE. And now it's GREYHAWK stuff. How can anyone feel justified in complaining, when this is such a huge victory for LG?
TheBlackFlail 03-29-07, 05:30 PM	While I don't have a problem mechanically with the card, or the requirement to have the Crystalmists as your home region, I do have a flavor problem with home region restrictions. Isn't Home Region supposed to be where your character is currently living (I.E. I have a home in, say, Highfolk Town), not where your character was born (I.E. born in the Pale)?
Bob_the_Theurge 03-29-07, 11:07 PM	While I don't have a problem mechanically with the card, or the requirement to have the Crystalmists as your home region, I do have a flavor problem with home region restrictions. Isn't Home Region supposed to be where your character is currently living (I.E. I have a home in, say, Highfolk Town), not where your character was born (I.E. born in the Pale)? PRECISELY. If a character wants to move somewhere, they should be allowed to. An artificial restriction like this is just silly, a way to punish people (via TU cost) for making the choice down the road when they abandon THIS region like they're abandoning Bright Sands (and don't get me started on the disappointing Dominion mod and AR).
zigspatty 03-29-07, 11:56 PM	An artificial restriction like this is just silly, a way to punish people (via TU cost) for making the choice ARRrrrggghhh! We get a chance to play a snow elf! Part of the "cost" of playing a snow elf is that unless someone writes some mods set in the Crystalmist region, they'll likely have to pay 2 TUs for all of their mods. IMO this is not really a large burden - I have several other PCs I can play, so I'm not too concerned that this one will likely go through TUs more quickly than others (none of which used up all of their TUs last year.) I will not be punished for playing one, instead, I'll incorporate the requirement into my snow elf's background and character as she makes frequent trips home to share her experiences in the great outside world. Snow elves leave their cities only rarely and have not had much contact with the outside world, so it's not unreasonable to require them to eternally claim the Crystalmists as home. Home is where your heart is, and ALL snow elves apparently leave their hearts in the Crystalmists. But, methinks that more than a few are going to develop some racially uncharacteristic wanderlust... There is no promise of a story arc set in the Crystalmists, so the region is not going to be "abandoned" at some future point in time - though I will certainly hope for some mods to be set there. Snow elves will be fun. I'm glad to have the option. If you don't want to play one with their inherrant restictions, you don't have to; if you get a snow elf card, give it to someone who WILL enjoy it. I am gonna enjoy mine! Patty
TheBlackFlail 03-30-07, 12:29 AM	I have no problem with being "burdened" (not sure I have ever used up all of my TUs with a character, and that was while running only one) by an extra TU cost (or the difficulty in joining Metaorgs), if that's what the circle feels necessary to balance the character. Home may be where the heart is, but my home region is wherever I am paying for a room in a rooming house on a long term basis...
_metz_ 03-30-07, 12:53 AM	I think the bigger issue will be metaorgs and PrC access. I want a Snow Elf Frost Mage.
Haro 03-30-07, 01:53 AM	I think the bigger issue will be metaorgs and PrC access. I want a Snow Elf Frost Mage. Then get your triad to approve someone (a friend?) to write a Special Mission for access. They may even write one that is flexible enough to give access to a variety of cold based PrCs, feats etc.
magebeast 03-30-07, 01:55 AM	I thought better of this...
gomeztoo 03-30-07, 04:35 AM	Based on the text of the card you can play a Snow Elf that doesn't come from the Crystalmists, but you still cannot change your home region. Actually, I believe the text means that *because* you take the Card's option to have the Crystal Mists as a region, it unlocks the snow elf race. Or, in other words: you must take Crystalmist as a region. Access tp the snow elf race is an extra benefit (which you need not take). Not well phrased, but I believe that is what is ment.
Bob_the_Theurge 03-30-07, 09:42 AM	ARRrrrggghhh! We get a chance to play a snow elf! Part of the "cost" of playing a snow elf is that unless someone writes some mods set in the Crystalmist region, they'll likely have to pay 2 TUs for all of their mods. IMO this is not really a large burden - I have several other PCs I can play, so I'm not too concerned that this one will likely go through TUs more quickly than others (none of which used up all of their TUs last year.) When your triad starts cheesing out deaths left and right, and all of a sudden your main character is that snow elf, you'll feel differently. I will not be punished for playing one, instead, I'll incorporate the requirement into my snow elf's background and character as she makes frequent trips home to share her experiences in the great outside world. And when you play that Snow Elf in a bunch of regional mods, and she starts to have roleplaying reasons to join local meta-orgs, only they all require "home region X" as an entrance requirement, you'll realize how stupid it is. Snow elves leave their cities only rarely and have not had much contact with the outside world, so it's not unreasonable to require them to eternally claim the Crystalmists as home. Home is where your heart is, and ALL snow elves apparently leave their hearts in the Crystalmists. But, methinks that more than a few are going to develop some racially uncharacteristic wanderlust... Right. So between the outcasts, and the wanderers, we've got a decent subset who might as well claim a "home" region elsewhere for a while, especially if they find themselves consistently fighting against the forces of Old Wicked, or a bunch of evil giants, or the minions of the Whispered One, or watching those silly High Elves make fools of themselves over in Highfolk, or any other cause you might have that they could attach themselves to. There is no promise of a story arc set in the Crystalmists, so the region is not going to be "abandoned" at some future point in time - though I will certainly hope for some mods to be set there. Even worse. So now not only is your home region locked, it's locked to a worthless home region? Gyah. Snow elves will be fun. I'm glad to have the option. If you don't want to play one with their inherrant restictions, you don't have to; if you get a snow elf card, give it to someone who WILL enjoy it. I am gonna enjoy mine! Snow elves could be fun. But they won't be fun in my home region, for the reasons set forth above. And from what I've seen of other home regions, they're going to have the same problem all over. I got attacked for "complaining" about the card when we "finally got LG-specific cards." You know what? I'm complaining because it's an ill-thought-out setup that they gave us, that makes it significantly less entertaining than such an option should have been. Snow Elves could have been cool, but the added restrictions are just not adding to the fun.
bitznarf 03-30-07, 09:49 AM	I got attacked for "complaining" about the card when we "finally got LG-specific cards." You know what? I'm complaining because it's an ill-thought-out setup that they gave us, that makes it significantly less entertaining than such an option should have been. Snow Elves could have been cool, but the added restrictions are just not adding to the fun. Would you prefer that the cards just not exist? If so, just pretend that for your characters, they (it) doesn't exist. Now you won't have any problems with your characters due to restrictions on home regions.
solbergb 03-30-07, 09:56 AM	I dunno. I think Bob just likes to complain. I also think he's kind of annoyed about the last interactive he played. I don't tend to have the "triad cheesed out interactive reduces all of my 8 characters to one" problem. Were I to play a snow elf, it would be character number 9, or maybe 10 since Greyhawk Ruins will likely encourage me to start a new character. One death of a higher level character would make a hole in my APL coverage (I've got a lot of coverage in the APL2-8 range now, with 3 L4 characters, a L6 and L8). It would not, however, "force" me to play a new character, nor would having 26 rounds of play opportunities instead of, say, 30, actually change anything. (once you have caught up with old modules and have a few characters in the same metaregion, the 1TU play opportunities tend to get divided up between them) Not that my triad actually writes things designed to kill characters, at least not beyond the usaual EL+3 type guidelines. Bob, maybe if you focused your anger on your triad's writing instead of on everything else in the game, you'd address the root of the problem. Bottom line - we were given access to a character race mechanically superior to a normal high elf in pretty much every way. The cost is - tie up one of your player reward cards. Have no metaorgs and all mods are 2 TU. If you like it, play it. If you don't, don't. Pick a character concept that doesn't rely on metaorgs. (I have some characters heavily involved, some that aren't. Depends on the character. I have used metaorgs zero times to get "PRC access". Mostly I've used them to get a little mundane item access and also...not all metaorgs have residency requirements, if you must join one)
Redfist 03-30-07, 09:56 AM	No, I'd prefer they do it RIGHT. Whatever, loser. Your reply was perfectly ok until your last sentence. Is it really that hard to keep it civil?
Bob_the_Theurge 03-30-07, 10:01 AM	Your reply was perfectly ok until your last sentence. Is it really that hard to keep it civil? I'm civil until someone else isn't. Making nonsensical statements as a "response" isn't civil.
Redfist 03-30-07, 10:02 AM	I only saw one person resort to name calling. *shrug*
Bob_the_Theurge 03-30-07, 10:07 AM	Not that my triad actually writes things designed to kill characters, at least not beyond the usaual EL+3 type guidelines. Bob, maybe if you focused your anger on your triad's writing instead of on everything else in the game, you'd address the root of the problem. Oh, they're bad enough sometimes, but the problem is the rules items they routinely exploit. The stuff that's their favorite is the stuff that is broken, and Blasphemy's been one of their tools for years; the only thing that stopped them was the cold war over DSP+HolyWord, and now that that's gone, they're right back to cheesy advanced-HD blasphemy critters. I blame the Circle, because they removed DSP without paying attention to what it would do to triads like mine. Bottom line - we were given access to a character race mechanically superior to a normal high elf in pretty much every way. The cost is - tie up one of your player reward cards. Have no metaorgs and all mods are 2 TU. "Mechanically superior"? +2 Dex, -2 Cha instead of Con. "Superior" is a question there, I tend to not like playing characters with a 6 CHA. If you like it, play it. If you don't, don't. Pick a character concept that doesn't rely on metaorgs. (I have some characters heavily involved, some that aren't. Depends on the character. I have used metaorgs zero times to get "PRC access". Mostly I've used them to get a little mundane item access and also...not all metaorgs have residency requirements, if you must join one) I've never used a meta-org to get access to anything. No feats, no PrC's, nothing. I put characters into meta-orgs because there's a roleplaying reason to do so, and nothing else. You know what? When you play a character, and the characters he plays with for half of his mods are members of a meta-org, and he's got half a dozen IP with that org, but can't join because of a stupid residency requirement? Congratulations. Roleplaying has been screwed for Roll-playing.
solbergb 03-30-07, 10:12 AM	Oh, they're bad enough sometimes, but the problem is the rules items they routinely exploit. There will always be rules exploits that authors can use to autowin an encounter without violating EL guidelines. You can't remove them all. It's impossible. You can train authors by giving feedback that "that wasn't fun". It helps if the judges also agree. It is very rare that a PHB spell is removed entirely, and when it happens it is usually because it interacts badly with the LG-campaign specific environment (eg, permanency gives magic-item-like effects for xp, loss of which is a bonus, not a penalty to most LG characters. Destruction was banned because you can't purchase the remedy in LG, unlike a home campaign. Etc) As for mechanically superior - Charisma is a dump stat for every class except cha-based spont casters and paladins. Constitution is vital to every single class. Trading cha for con is almost alway mechanically superior. This is why dwarves are considered one of the better classes mechanically, even leaving aside all their other racial bonuses. So yes...MECHANICALLY SUPERIOR to high elf. You are trading cha for con, and keep all the elf benefits. There is no question this is better, and opens up some builds to elves that would have been more dangerous before. I'll say it again - from a roleplay standpoint, you know what the card restricts you to. In the Flaness, the way this card is intended Snow Elves just don't live anywhere but the Crystalmists. Pick a character concept that accepts that. Then you won't have roleplay problems.
GreatSiron 03-30-07, 10:15 AM	What region are you in Bob? Cause if your triad is that bad, I never wanna go there.
Bob_the_Theurge 03-30-07, 10:16 AM	You can't remove them all. It's impossible. You can train authors by giving feedback that "that wasn't fun". It helps if the judges also agree. Oh, it's perfectly fun. For the Triad. It is very rare that a PHB spell is removed entirely, and when it happens it is usually because it interacts badly with the LG-campaign specific environment (eg, permanency gives magic-item-like effects for xp, loss of which is a bonus, not a penalty to most LG characters. Destruction was banned because you can't purchase the remedy in LG, unlike a home campaign. Etc) Permanency? I've never understood why that can't be handled just like MIC. It's a fairly specific spell, and you could easily say characters have to find access before using it with any spell not specifically listed as affected by it in the PHB, and can only use it on themselves or their equipment and not on other players just like MIC. But the Circle, for reasons unknown, refuses to entertain what ought to be a simple solution. And they refuse to remove the really broken BS, so they're going to see complaints about it until they wake up about it.
kenobi65 03-30-07, 10:20 AM	No, I'd prefer they do it RIGHT. Whatever, loser. Y'know, I respect your right to complain (even if it gets tiresome after a while, because it seems like an awful lot of your posts boil down to complanining). What you don't have a right to be is rude.
solbergb 03-30-07, 10:31 AM	Oh, it's perfectly fun. For the Triad. Permanency? I've never understood why that can't be handled just like MIC. It's a fairly specific spell, and you could easily say characters have to find access before using it with any spell not specifically listed as affected by it in the PHB, and can only use it on themselves or their equipment and not on other players just like MIC. But the Circle, for reasons unknown, refuses to entertain what ought to be a simple solution.. You are correct. You don't understand it. The reasons are NOT unknown, they are just unknown to YOU. Let me try to explain, so it will stop puzzling you. Anything that trades xp for permanent power in LG without a gold cost scaled to APL breaks the expected gold per level rule, leading to significant imbalances. This is why there is a cap on how much xp-spells you can cast per module, it allows the spells without letting the imbalance get out of hand. This is also why xp penalties for multiclassing also cause gold penalties. Characters who MIC are expected to have more gear than expected for the level...their "cost" is that they have fewer feats than a char without MIC. The gear compensates for the lost feat(s). Permanency however, does more than just skew the wealth/level slightly. It also effectively gives you character wealth. 24x7 see invisible, arcane sight, even enlarge person would greatly change character power and the only "cost" is something that you don't generally want in LG anyway (less XP = more play opportunities = more cash/character level). Unlike MIC, the arcanist has all of his feats and most of the time isn't even down spell slots (unlike things such as imbue with spell ability or even rings of spell storing, contingency, etc which have to be recast every adventure) At a minimum they'd have to slap a cash cost on it, and even that would break down after APL10 or so, unless the cost was 2x the xp cost or more. It would have to be tracked like MIC, blah blah. It's a headache and one that probably isn't worth the trouble.
vvincent 03-30-07, 10:38 AM	Okay - see the line behind you, the one you just crossed. That's the line that separated a passionate gamer from a complete [IMPLIED PROFANITY REMOVED]. You lost all respect or consideration you might have earned with that one thoughtless and stupid comment. As far as I can see - you don't want your problems resolved or your questions answered. All you want to do is complain and trash anyone with a different viewpoint. So feel free to do so in a vacuum now - I, for one, will no longer seriously consider *anything* you have to say. Vernon L. Vincent Verbobonc Triad No, I'd prefer they do it RIGHT. Whatever, loser.
Bold 03-30-07, 10:40 AM	I tend to not like playing characters with a 6 CHA. Wait, your characters are charming and charismatic? How remarkable! :) What region are you in Bob? Cause if your triad is that bad, I never wanna go there. Yes, please tell us where you play so we can avoid the area. Er, because of the triad, that is. Or something. I, for one, thank our Circle overlords (and Chris Tulach as the new RPGA Content Manager) and anyone else who helped push through the LG-specific campaign reward card. Same for last period's reprints of cards usable in LG. Please don't get discouraged by the vocal complaints of just a few players--your efforts are greatly appreciated by the vast majority of us!
Haro 03-30-07, 10:42 AM	Okay - see the line behind you, the one you just crossed. That's the line that separated a passionate gamer from a complete a**hole. You lost all respect or consideration you might have earned with that one thoughtless and stupid comment. As far as I can see - you don't want your problems resolved or your questions answered. All you want to do is complain and trash anyone with a different viewpoint. So feel free to do so in a vacuum now - I, for one, will no longer seriously consider *anything* you have to say. Vernon L. Vincent Verbobonc Triad Seconded.
bitznarf 03-30-07, 10:43 AM	Okay - see the line behind you, the one you just crossed. That's the line that separated a passionate gamer from a complete a**hole. You lost all respect or consideration you might have earned with that one thoughtless and stupid comment. As far as I can see - you don't want your problems resolved or your questions answered. All you want to do is complain and trash anyone with a different viewpoint. So feel free to do so in a vacuum now - I, for one, will no longer seriously consider *anything* you have to say. Vernon L. Vincent Verbobonc Triad http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/troller.htm Maybe if we all ignore Bob, he will go away..
vvincent 03-30-07, 10:47 AM	Is this directed at me? http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/troller.htm Ah -I see it's not. Thanks!
Madfox11 03-30-07, 10:52 AM	But the Circle, for reasons unknown, refuses to entertain what ought to be a simple solution. You are free to complain Bob, and as long as you stay polite I do read your posts and I do take them into consideration when making decisions for this campign. Just remember though that what might appear simple to you, quickly becomes very complicated when you are dealing with thousends of players from all over the world, and over 80 triad members (if not more) who all want to have a say and a bussiness the size of WotC/Hasbro who make demands of another kind as well. Even the smallest of changes tend to have a big implication in a campaign this size... Pieter Sleijpen RPGA Living Greyhawk Circle Member The Splintered Suns
vvincent 03-30-07, 11:23 AM	I would like to apologize for my use of implied profanity. It lowers me to Bob's level instead of elevating the discussion. That doesn't change the intent of my post - only that I could have used alternate language to convey my frustrations.
pedr 03-30-07, 11:54 AM	Without wanting to step on any moderator's toes, there are ways to avoid threads getting derailed like this. There's a 'report post' function (the Red Triangle at the top right of each post) and each user has an ignore list. You can add people to it by clicking their name, viewing their public profile then clicking "Add <user> to my ignore list." I don't actually know what you see or don't when you do that, as I don't have anyone on mine, but the facility's there. On topic (!!) ... I love the fact that the RPGA is sending out cards written by the Circle and already approved for use from the moment they arrive in the post! I like the idea of the Snow Elf card. I'd rationalise the home-region requirement as implying that Snow Elves ties with their home is so strong that they have to return frequently and cannot truly settle in other lands. It is up to triads to decide whether their metaorgs really require residency or not. I haven't explored other regions' metaorgs in much detail, but I get the feeling that perhaps a few too many require residency when it's not necessarily justified by the nature of the organisation. Similarly organisations which require you to play a regional before joining. But that's for another thread! In terms of the other cards, one of the Xen'drik ones is as follows (info from an XE thread): One with Darkness take -4 to AC, and re roll a miss chance. Spend another action point to avoid the -4 to AC. Action Point Val: 3That looks LG-usable (though without the opportunity to avoid the -4 penalty).
smerwin29 03-30-07, 12:02 PM	There's a 'report post' function (the Red Triangle at the top right of each post) and each user has an ignore list. You can add people to it by clicking their name, viewing their public profile then clicking "Add <user> to my ignore list." I don't actually know what you see or don't when you do that, as I don't have anyone on mine, but the facility's there. Just as an FYI, the ignore list will just blank out the content of the messages posted by people on your ignore list. I only have one person on it right now, but it does work. Very handy and sanity-saving! And now back on topic. I too am glad that LG is getting the chance to contribute cards to the mailings. I know we are using the LG specific cards (minus the snow elf) in the XE campaign. Shawn
Britt 03-30-07, 12:37 PM	I am 94.73% sure he is from the BK, though some of his comments don't make any sense to me.
Sieylianna 03-30-07, 12:53 PM	Y'know, I respect your right to complain (even if it gets tiresome after a while, because it seems like an awful lot of your posts boil down to complanining). What you don't have a right to be is rude. I'm thinking that he must have been on time-out for a while because I haven't seen him whining in a few weeks. He may not be back very long if he keeps this up. Ed
Bob_the_Theurge 03-30-07, 01:34 PM	You are free to complain Bob, and as long as you stay polite I do read your posts and I do take them into consideration when making decisions for this campign. Just remember though that what might appear simple to you, quickly becomes very complicated when you are dealing with thousends of players from all over the world, and over 80 triad members (if not more) who all want to have a say and a bussiness the size of WotC/Hasbro who make demands of another kind as well. Even the smallest of changes tend to have a big implication in a campaign this size... Pieter Sleijpen RPGA Living Greyhawk Circle Member The Splintered Suns You're the first decent person I've seen posting here, and that includes the jerk triads from above a bit. Congratulations. I know how things scale. I can appreciate if the Circle doesn't want to introduce something because it introduces headaches at-scale. If that's their justification on permanency (just as an example), that'd be all it took to say, and I'd be more than happy to accept it. Basic problem: they've never bothered to SAY it. Nor do we as players get to know the reasoning for a great many other things. As for the jerks who come in to threads I post just to attack me? "I'm sorry I stepped on your toes." No, wait. There's a Verbobonc triad member who's attacking me and misquoting what I say. Deliberately. There's a group who feel it is their duty to insult me, like Bold and Haro. Bitznarf takes the time to dig up an insulting image and post it. And they do these rather than honestly discuss the substance of the points I posted. You want me gone? Fine. Poof. That's that. GONE.
bitznarf 03-30-07, 01:40 PM	You want me gone? Fine. Poof. That's that. GONE. Bye *waves*
solbergb 03-30-07, 01:51 PM	Basic problem: they've never bothered to SAY it. Nor do we as players get to know the reasoning for a great many other things. . In this case they have said it. Repeatedly. Usually around when someone pushed for permanency to be added so they could craft flying carpets. (the current LGCS ended that discussion by allowing permanency for MIC purposes only, so I guess persistence does pay off) As for the rest - people disagreeing with you isn't a personal attack. At this point all of your posts show that you are reading everything with a filter of "they're all out to get me" and it's making what you say less and less credible. Discussing the substance of your posts doens't mean agreeing with you. Everything I've posted today quoting or rerferencing you has been in response to the substance of one or more of your postings. This is an online forum. Most of us don't know you and don't really have a big emotional attachment to one position or another, we're just debating. It is usually a sign when a lot of people post positions at variance to yours that perhaps your experience may not be reflective of the campaign as a whole. It is usually not a sign that they dislike you and are resorting to personal attacks. That comes later, when the ad-hominem attacks begin. I'm posting this knowing that there is a 70% chance you'll treat it as a personal attack. But a bit under 1/3 odds is still worth trying. Take a step back, calm down and come back and read today's posts, everything you wrote, from the point of view of a stranger that doesn't know you or the situations you describe. Think about how you are appearing to others. Think about what that is doing to your credibility. Or just write this post off as a personal attack. I don't care that much. Doesn't affect me either way.
vvincent 03-30-07, 02:29 PM	And, of course, here I go responding when I said I wouldn't. <SNIP> There's a Verbobonc triad member who's attacking me and misquoting what I say. Deliberately. <SNIP> It's hard to misquote you when I quote you verbatim. Also - the Triad-part is part of my sig, which I ususally edit out - but did, in fact, forget to do in this instance. My post was entirely personal and not a reflection of my role in campaign administration, nor should it be taken as such. As for 'deliberately' - I did deliberately respond to your message. As for whether it was an 'attack' - I'll leave others to make that call. Your complaining has been pretty pervasive on almost every recent thread (Adobe Acrobat 7.0, Snow Elves, Blasphemy, and so forth) and for the most part has not contained any constructive dialogue. I understand that you disagree with some things. There are things in the campaign I don't agree with. But your method of effecting change is alienating the very people you seek help from. When you stoop to the level of calling someone a jerk, when all that person did was disagree with you, you lose any credibility you might have garnered for your position. You have some valid points in all of your threads, but those points have been utterly lost. If you can find a rational way to present your issues, and not attack anyone with a different or dissenting opinion, then perhaps you might encounter a more receptive audience. You'll catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar. Vernon L. Vincent
MatteBlack 03-30-07, 03:10 PM	I am just taking the restrictions as deterrent to a potential overpopulation of Snow Elves. To the powergamer, they are just better in most builds. Others will want to show off their ability to make a snow elf. The race should eb a rare one so, I am fine with the access card coming with a built-in hindrance to how it may be played. They will be cooler if there are fewer of them. Lee
Japangirl 03-30-07, 05:11 PM	I am 94.73% sure he is from the BK, though some of his comments don't make any sense to me. And 82.6% of statistics are made up on the spot! Thanks for all the hard work and the new cards. Now if only I would receive my mailing! I got GM rewards in the form of a mini and a template, so I know they have my address right, but I want my LG cards too . . .
bitznarf 03-30-07, 05:21 PM	How do we know if we qualify for player/GM rewards? Ie. how would I know if I should be expecting something in the mail?
magebeast 03-30-07, 05:28 PM	You want me gone? Fine. Poof. That's that. GONE. Schwing! Christmas comes early.
kenobi65 03-30-07, 05:33 PM	How do we know if we qualify for player/GM rewards? Ie. how would I know if I should be expecting something in the mail? Well, assuming you've signed up (you don't get anything if you don't specifically sign up for the Player Rewards program), you can check your points total by logging into your member account. Every 20 points you accumulate (points are tracked separately for you as a player and as a GM) earns you 3 cards.
bitznarf 03-30-07, 05:34 PM	Well, assuming you've signed up (you don't get anything if you don't specifically sign up for the Player Rewards program), you can check your points total by logging into your member account. Every 20 points you accumulate (points are tracked separately for you as a player and as a GM) earns you 3 cards. Ah, very good then, thanks. And I have indeed signed up.
Eric Anondson 03-30-07, 06:40 PM	Snow Elves could have been cool, but the added restrictions are just not adding to the fun.Translation: Until it is fun for Bob, it is retarded.
Buat_Atiras 03-30-07, 08:51 PM	Okay folks, here's a newbie question: Can I trade the Eberon cards with someone for other Living Greyhawk cards? If so, would this be the thread to start on or is there another thread I can use? :confused:
Japangirl 03-30-07, 09:38 PM	Cards are inherently tradeable, so you can trade cards with anyone. If you have a friend who plays Eberron and you play LG, you can easily trade cards with that person.
cetiken 03-30-07, 11:38 PM	Begging also works wonders in the aquasition of cards you want and other people don't. It helps to save their characters lives a few times and contribute to a fun table first though.
Zanzibax 03-31-07, 07:34 AM	You know what? If it makes Bob that mad...it can't be all bad. I wasn't considering using an offered card before...but Bob's hatred toward the card has to make me re-consider. It could very well be quite *ahem* cool to play a snow elf. I'll work up a character build for it...-2 cha?...maybe a warrior build of some sort...hmmm. Hey Bob...send that card to someone who cares!
Divine Dwarf 03-31-07, 10:35 AM	PRECISELY. If a character wants to move somewhere, they should be allowed to. An artificial restriction like this is just silly, a way to punish people (via TU cost) for making the choice down the road when they abandon THIS region like they're abandoning Bright Sands (and don't get me started on the disappointing Dominion mod and AR). I totally disagree. I have 11 characters in LG, and there are 8 or 9 regionals per year, and 5-7 meta regionals. Most of characters are going to spend MOST of their TUs on ADP mods, out-of-region and the 20 Cores. To suggest that a new and special race, that is just another Legolas fantasy RP thing as far as I'm concerned, cause I HATE elves, is a "silly" decision because of TU cost... that's blowing smoke. I do agree the restriction is artificial, but I think a Gnome's favored class being Bard is artificial. I think Power Attack being based of BAB (roughly veteran experience) and not STRENGTH score (Power) is ridiculous and artificial. Bob, I think D&D is artificial. at least the cards are for LG and not Gamma World. Enjoy them or complain in silent.
Halworth 04-02-07, 12:31 AM	From memory: Item card: Standard action, gives one enemy a -2 on d20 rolls for 2 rounds. Creation card: Snow Elf +8 bonus on one STR check Ignore fatigue for Con-modifier rounds Reprint of Not This Time (I think that's what it was) Does anyone have a list of the cards(definitive) And the exact wording of the cards? + flavor of couse!:D Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks in advance. And enough about what's his name already.
Anthraxus 04-02-07, 03:28 PM	I just learned about the new LG cards yesterday, and received mine this morning. I am really glad the Circle was able to finally make some Living Greyhawk cards. It's about time! :) Thanks for the good work.
Rerednaw 04-02-07, 04:08 PM	Would you prefer that the cards just not exist? If so, just pretend that for your characters, they (it) doesn't exist. Now you won't have any problems with your characters due to restrictions on home regions. Off-topic, but...heh I don't have too. Registered last year, over 70 points...and not a single card yet. :)
Eric Anondson 04-02-07, 04:25 PM	I've had the misfortune of playing so irregularly, and at that mostly regionals/metaregionals, and only a few at a time, that during each period I just not enough play points to earn a card. Or the convention I attended didn't report the mods in time to add up enough points for the period while the next reporting period I don't play. I must have rotten luck on this too. As it happens the most recent convention I attended was down in Iowa City weeks ago and has yet to be reported and therefore won't count for this most recent period. :( My play oportunities come in spurts and if my events get recorded spread out on either side of the period, then ... oh well. But I'm just used to it. I play with folks who have so many cards coming out of their ears I can put together a decent selection from the spares of other players. The few cards I have received have been Mark of Heroes and other Eberron cards. :banghead: Promptly becoming bookmarks.
Britt 04-02-07, 04:36 PM	The points roll over to the next mailing if you don't have enough for anything.
Eric Anondson 04-02-07, 04:41 PM	Has it always been that way?
Anthraxus 04-02-07, 04:52 PM	Has it always been that way? Eric- I'm pretty sure it has. I think it's written somewhere in the D&D rewards page.
kenobi65 04-02-07, 05:01 PM	Has it always been that way? Yup.
Eric Anondson 04-02-07, 05:05 PM	At 122 points, how many cards should I have?
Hariman 04-02-07, 05:26 PM	At 122 points, how many cards should I have? 122 should qualify you for 6 packets (one packet per 20 points) with 3 cards in each packet. So 18 cards total. Unless I'm mistaken. You're lucky. I've only got 39 points right now. And 20 of those point SHOULD be going to the March mailing. Which I'm still waiting for. Hariman PS: Snow Elf = Cool character possibilities. I'd be glad to have no con penalty on a Snow Elf Rogue. And fighter builds are that much easier with a snow elf. The TU constraints can hurt (26 adventures barring TU cost reduction favors VS 33 if you play all home region/metaregion mods with one character.) and Metaorg access is nonexistent. But 26 adventures a year is a lot of adventures and no metaorgs means you can play more adventures. It evens out.
Anthraxus 04-02-07, 06:07 PM	122 should qualify you for 6 packets (one packet per 20 points) with 3 cards in each packet. So 18 cards total. Unless I'm mistaken. Depends- they used to give out one card per 20 points, and switched it to 3 cards per 20 points at some... er... point. ;)
Mithreinmaethor 04-02-07, 06:09 PM	Still no cards here for me....Grumble.
Eric Anondson 04-02-07, 06:09 PM	122 should qualify you for 6 packets (one packet per 20 points) with 3 cards in each packet. So 18 cards total. Unless I'm mistaken.Looking through my list of events again, it looks like there have been a significant amount that have never been reported. I should have FAR more than 122 points. Just my luck. But at 18 cards, that seems about right actually... all I can account for are about 13 or so. If it weren't for RPGA swag at game days, I'd have only a single card to play with, all the others having been RPGA Campaigns-only cards.
taylorj 04-02-07, 06:21 PM	Looking through my list of events again, it looks like there have been a significant amount that have never been reported. I should have FAR more than 122 points. That happens a fair amount. I think about 1/4 of the stuff I've played at home game events never did get reported... One of those was a 4 point adaptable too... :weep: All you can do is make sure your own events are ordered and reported properly, or just don't play with judges who slack off in that regard.
Timlagor 04-03-07, 01:02 PM	Snow Elf DC suggestions This is what i'd like the DC to say: - LG Campaign Cards are usable by default as soon as you get them (pretty sure that's not specified anywhere yet) - Snow Elves must start in the (?)Crystal Mist Mountains - Snow Elves can change their home region after a period of X. I just think forcing them to keep to their starting region is a restriction that makes no sense beyond a certain point. I don't think it's going to have a great deal of impact on people's play but it irritates **************************************** **** It was my impression that Permanency being allowed for crafting wasn't so much a matter of persistence as the suggestion that spells be allowed for purely crafting purposes (and the existence of more Closed spells that were wanted). It's definitely possible that Britt's major efforts at greater responsiveness played a major part too. ..that's just my impression though.. maybe nagging does work! :schemes:
Britt 04-03-07, 03:33 PM	..that's just my impression though.. maybe nagging does work! :schemes: I am impervious to nagging. Only well-reasoned ideas function against me.
kenobi65 04-03-07, 04:18 PM	I am impervious to nagging. Only well-reasoned ideas function against me. "DR 30 / well-reasoned ideas", eh? ;)
Britt 04-03-07, 04:30 PM	DR 50/Epic Thought or Cute Girl
Mithreinmaethor 04-03-07, 04:49 PM	Grumble still no cards. What the Heck :) I am only getting 6 but sheesh.
kenobi65 04-03-07, 05:19 PM	DR 50/Epic Thought or Cute Girl And here is the strategy for you guys who want to get Britt to change his mind: Hire Natalie Portman to whisper sweet rules changes in Britt's ear. "Define 'trained for war', Britt...it'd make me *sooooo* happy..." :D
kenobi65 04-03-07, 05:21 PM	Grumble still no cards. What the Heck :) I am only getting 6 but sheesh. Haven't gotten mine yet, either. A) It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it took more than one day for the mailing to go out. B) When you're dealing with the USPS, especially on "regular" mail, the variability in delivery time borders on the unbelievable.
Timlagor 04-03-07, 05:26 PM	DR 50/Epic Thought or Cute Girl Well it's not "DR50/innocent girl" so maybe there's hope yet :D
bitznarf 04-03-07, 05:33 PM	B) When you're dealing with the USPS, especially on "regular" mail, the variability in delivery time borders on the unbelievable. Priority mail seems to work on the same schedule. Ie. whenever they feel like it. :rolleyes:
Eric Anondson 04-03-07, 08:29 PM	I got mine in the mail. 3 Eberron, 3 LG. No snow elf, but I just don't have an urge to make up a snow elf. One of my Eberron cards can be used in an LG campaign. Seems I only earned 3 but because of the delay sending out cards last mailing the RPGA doubled this mailing. Very nice of them.
Hariman 04-04-07, 12:19 AM	You're lucky. I've only got 39 points right now. And 20 of those point SHOULD be going to the March mailing. Which I'm still waiting for. Hariman There I was, just yesterday, griping about not getting my campaign cards yet. And today I find they just came in the mail. I got three LG cards (Snow Elf, Feat of Strength, and the one that has alertness as a prereq. Not This Time, I think it was.) And 3 eberron cards. (At least one of which I can use.) Hey, does having Alertness from a familiar meet the "Alertness" prereq? My familiar is a toad that stays in my character's pocket/shirt. Hariman
frupton 04-04-07, 01:53 AM	Mine came in the mail today too. Feat of Strength looks like a handy one for people who don't like to remove their armor on boats, in case they suddenly find themselves needing to make a swim check. :D Thanks to the Circle and RPGA for the new LG cards!
gomeztoo 04-04-07, 02:42 AM	DR 50/Epic Thought or Cute Girl Does that include transvirtuals? *has Nesalia smile innocently* Gomez, willing to fail his save vs Charm* from any cute not-gender-specific person :P *) not necessarily a good thing
_metz_ 04-04-07, 02:47 AM	I've got lots of points, (well over a hundred player and abvout 60 DMing ones) but still have only ever received two cards, and one was illegal lol, not to mention how many unreported games I have. with any luck they will be arriving in the mail sometime.
gomeztoo 04-04-07, 03:03 AM	It's a bit depressing how many Convention slots do not get reported, like, at all.
Mithreinmaethor 04-04-07, 06:07 AM	Speaking of Conventions. Just attended Aggiecon 38 (Great con by the way) and I was wondering do we get double points on all of the mods we played or just for the core special ? I noticed it had not been reported yet but I wont sweat that for another couple of weeks when the rewards pts deadline is approaching (April 30th I think) Oh and I have 75 pts. Should have close to 90 but have several mods played locally that were not reported.
pedr 04-04-07, 07:26 AM	The Extended Premieres are supposed to give double points across the board. This didn't happen for XCaliber 2 in the UK law autumn. I contacted customer service and they said to get in touch with the Senior DM and have him contact HQ. I sort of gave up at that point - the Senior DM was by that point embroiled in planning another convention and had just joined the triad so I thought it kinder to leave him be! Definitely worth pestering if you want the extra points, though!
Sieylianna 04-04-07, 07:47 AM	Hey, does having Alertness from a familiar meet the "Alertness" prereq? My familiar is a toad that stays in my character's pocket/shirt. Alertness is alertness. You're good as long as the familiar is within five feet of you. (I ran into this in one module where you couldn't take a familiar or animal companion with you into the dungeon due to the overwhelming evil). Ed
Rerednaw 04-04-07, 04:24 PM	Grumble still no cards. What the Heck :) I am only getting 6 but sheesh. Don't know what smail is like in your part of the world but a RPGA buddy and myself both got ours yesterday. (We're in Las Vegas, NV, USA).
Mithreinmaethor 04-04-07, 05:59 PM	Don't know what smail is like in your part of the world but a RPGA buddy and myself both got ours yesterday. (We're in Las Vegas, NV, USA). Ok I think WOTC is just trying to torture me. One of my friends wife got her cards but neither he nor I got ours. One of our other friends got his also. As long as they come before the convention next weekend I will be ok
Munchausen 04-04-07, 09:05 PM	Don't know what smail is like in your part of the world but a RPGA buddy and myself both got ours yesterday. (We're in Las Vegas, NV, USA). Sweet. My gal and I are also in Las Vegas (just started playing RPGA D&D in Vegas now that we are settled in very well).
Sieylianna 04-04-07, 09:33 PM	Another local player received his on Saturday, but I'm still waiting. Ed
paigeoliver 04-04-07, 11:29 PM	I got a few of the LG cards in my packet over the weekend. A big thanks to the circle for these. I'll likely be using both the cards I got on a regular basis. (I got the one that avoids fatigue, and the one that is the item to give baddies a -2 on stuff).
JohnduBois 04-04-07, 11:31 PM	I've got my spell template, but not my minis or cards.
Mommy was an Orc 04-05-07, 09:16 AM	I got mine yesterday - Snow Elf, the fatigue one, and the -2 to all d20s for a round. I think that -2 to all d20s is on the overpowered side for a card. Most of the cards require an action of some sort or to be used as part of an action. That's the kind of card where if everyone in the party has one, they can use two of them per encounter...
chesspiece 04-05-07, 12:58 PM	I guess the next step is allowing Judges to use cards against the PCs. :eek: :weep: :mrt: :b:
smerwin29 04-05-07, 01:25 PM	You mean we can't!? (ahem) Shawn
Japangirl 04-05-07, 08:05 PM	I got a mini and a template for judging, but no cards so far :(.
solbergb 04-05-07, 09:57 PM	yeah, my wife got her cards (snow elf, not this time (our first!) and the +8 str thing and 3 non-lg cards) but all I got was the templates I never use (I like the wire-templates) and a couple minis I might use someday. Still eagerly awaiting my cards, as the ratio of useful to crap in this round is unusually high (I got my first cards right after they all became "action point" based and as a measure of the sucktitude, was using an "extra deflection" card until this last batch came)
Attack_the_Darkness 04-06-07, 01:07 AM	LG set 1: adrenaline rush benefit: ignore fatigue for 1+CON rounds. feat of strength benefit: +8 STR bonus on checks and skill checks. not this time! prereq: alertness benefit: reroll save after failure. ice cities of the crystalmists can be from crystalmist mountains, unlocks snow elves from frostburn. charm of fortune benefit: opponents suffer -2 to AC, saves, and attacks for 1 round.
gomeztoo 04-06-07, 02:57 AM	I guess the next step is allowing Judges to use cards against the PCs. :eek: :weep: :mrt: :b: Sounds like a fair plan.
Madfox11 04-06-07, 03:32 AM	Sounds like a fair plan. ::shrug:: People have been complaining that in LG PCs have a low gp to level ratio especially if you use one-shot items or stuff is destroyed. Treat these cards as the one-shot slotless swift-action magic items they are and try to assign a fair price to them and you will realize the EV is not really bad at all.
gomeztoo 04-06-07, 04:29 AM	Well, it's not the cards specifically, of course. PCs can accumulate many favors that can save their skin. Free raises, bonuses on saves/skills/ etc... It's nice to have an edge, it is fun to have a few extra cards up your sleeve, so to speak. But I see no big objections to give the NPCs that occasional benefit too (such as MO benefits like skill bonuses).
taf_24 04-07-07, 01:22 PM	If any of you are interested, I just put 5 complete sets of the cards up on ebay. OUr group mostly plays home games, so we don't use the cards and figure we'd put them out there for any of your that might want to use them. Search for "RPGA Rewards."
Mithreinmaethor 04-07-07, 04:53 PM	If any of you are interested, I just put 5 complete sets of the cards up on ebay. OUr group mostly plays home games, so we don't use the cards and figure we'd put them out there for any of your that might want to use them. Search for "RPGA Rewards." Well I think that the cards are the Intellectual Property of WOTC. Not sure if you can resell them. I am sure someone will chime in and tell you for sure.
Britt 04-07-07, 05:45 PM	Well I think that the cards are the Intellectual Property of WOTC. Not sure if you can resell them. I am sure someone will chime in and tell you for sure. It should fall under First Sale Doctrine and Exhaustion (if there are any patents involved).
WotC_Tulach 04-08-07, 12:52 AM	Regarding the sale of cards: They're your cards, you can do what you want with them.
GreatSiron 04-08-07, 02:11 PM	I just got my cards, and I'm happy. (I got Charm of the Fortunate.)
kenobi65 04-08-07, 06:06 PM	Well I think that the cards are the Intellectual Property of WOTC. Not sure if you can resell them. I am sure someone will chime in and tell you for sure. That's true of RPGA "certificates" (e.g., Adventure Records, certs from the older campaigns) -- you can't sell them. As Britt and Chris have already indicated, that's not the case with Player Rewards cards.
Mithreinmaethor 04-11-07, 04:48 PM	Well I still have not received my rewards cards in the mail yet. I know people were getting them around March 22nd or so and this is nearly 3 weeks later. I was hoping to have them before I travel to another convention this weekend. Oh well I guess Second Wind will just have to be my only legal card I have out of 6 :)
solbergb 04-11-07, 05:04 PM	my wife got hers weeks ago and I have yet to see mine. Be patient. However it is sorted, it isn't alphabetical by last name anyway...or by geographic location.
JohnduBois 04-11-07, 07:40 PM	I just got my cards today. My number of LG-usable cards doubled.
Genghis Cohen 04-11-07, 08:03 PM	I just got my cards today. My number of LG-usable cards doubled.Only one card?
Styrmlord 04-11-07, 08:20 PM	If anyone has a snow elf card they don't want, please PM me.
Herrbard 04-11-07, 11:27 PM	My youngest daughter got her cards yesterday, but my eldest and I still don't have any. :tantrum: Card withdrawal!
pedr 04-12-07, 06:49 AM	They've started to hit the UK... but I don't have mine yet!
Madfox11 04-12-07, 07:13 AM	I have got mine yesterday, so they have started to hit the Netherlands as well.
Sieylianna 04-12-07, 08:14 AM	Mine showed up this week. Two complete sets of the LG cards and one and a half sets of Xendrik. Ed
The_Jester 04-12-07, 09:57 AM	Still waiting on my... pesky Canada Post. Should be getting quite a few if they added up my points properly. Mostly likely I'll just get Eberron again...
kenobi65 04-12-07, 10:01 AM	Mine finally arrived yesterday. 18 cards (wow), so nearly 2 complete sets of both the LG and XE cards.
Mithreinmaethor 04-12-07, 05:23 PM	Well they did not arrive today. And I leave in the morning for another convention. It is pretty funny to see people in other countries getting them already though :) Maybe when I get home on Sunday they will be here
Britt 04-12-07, 05:27 PM	I have not received mine yet, either.
Shieldhart91 04-13-07, 01:15 AM	Looking at my RPGA page, I realize I have a lot less points then I thought I did. What I'm really ticked off about is that I was so close to 60 reward points on the player side >.< ARGH! RPGA HAS THWARTED ME AGAIN! But I can pray for that Snow Elf Card. On the downside, I didn't receive squat yet. But John got his, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a weekend arrival.
just_be_glad_now 04-13-07, 02:11 AM	Good to see we are keeping up with increasing the flow of information to players with the new administration. Now concerning the change in clarity of information with the the new admininstration... New Circle member wrote: "It should fall under First Sale Doctrine and Exhaustion (if there are any patents involved)." __________________ Britt F. Frey Living Greyhawk Circle - IUZ Metaregion Old Circle member wrote: "They're your cards, you can do what you want with them." __________________ Chris Tulach RPGA Content Manager Uhoh. ;) ~jbgn
Britt 04-13-07, 02:29 AM	Hey, someone brought up IP rights, so I figured they wanted IP terminology :D
JJeff 04-13-07, 02:33 AM	Well, the template (singular) and figures (4) I got. But not the cards.... Need more cards.... But I guess it takes a long while to reach Asia...
JohnduBois 04-13-07, 06:11 AM	Looking at my RPGA page, I realize I have a lot less points then I thought I did. What I'm really ticked off about is that I was so close to 60 reward points on the player side >.< ARGH! RPGA HAS THWARTED ME AGAIN! But I can pray for that Snow Elf Card. On the downside, I didn't receive squat yet. But John got his, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a weekend arrival. If you don't get one, Rick, I got two, and more than one isn't really useful...
Timlagor 04-13-07, 10:01 PM	I got my cards but I haven't seen a DM envelope... unless it came a long time ago: what figures are being sent out?
kenobi65 04-15-07, 06:18 PM	I got my cards but I haven't seen a DM envelope... unless it came a long time ago: what figures are being sent out? I got my minis about a month ago; this time around, it's a repaint of the Duergar Slaver mini.
Monkey76 04-15-07, 06:34 PM	I have the following Campaign Cards for trade: Ice Cities of the Crystalmists (LG Set 1, 1 of 5) Blinded by the Light (XDE Set 2, 1 of 5) Dragon's Breath Scholar (XDE Set 2, 2 of 5) One with Darkness (XDE Set 2, 3 of 5) Tome of Corruption (XDE Set 2, 5 of 5) Stalker of Skyfall (XDE Set 1, 1 of 10) Sand Swimmer of Menechtarun (XDE Set 1, 2 of 10) Devastating Spell (XDE Set 1, 7 of 10) Bane of My Enemies (MoH Promo 7) Arcane Retention (MoH Set 1, Card 7 of 10) Twist the Blade (MoH Set 1, Card 6 of 10) Triumph of Hoof and Fletching (MoH Set 2, 7 of 10) Taint of the Daelkyr (MoH Set 5, Card 1) A 'Forge Apart (MoH Set 5, Card 2) Zilargo Elemental Binder (MoH Set 5, Card 9) Eldeen Plant Binder (MoH Set 5, Card 10) I'm looking for the folowing in the following order: Let's Try that Again Swift Response Holy Flood Right Scroll for the Job Feign Surprise Force of Personality Bizzare Stone Idol To a lesser extent: Natural Survivor Blessed Relief Fast Talker Not this ime I Have That! Desperate Maneuver Arcane Transmogrification Arcane Influx I am a long time member of the LG and D&D boards. If you are interested please e-mail me at lauper25 @ gmail.com. Thanks.
Mithreinmaethor 04-15-07, 11:36 PM	Well back from a second con in the last 25 days and still no cards. Grumble
Redfist 04-17-07, 05:52 PM	YAY!!! I finally received my cards. I'm not usually a pessimist, but being so long after others received theirs and having heard the horror stories about previous shipments, I was about to give up.
Britt 04-17-07, 08:26 PM	I got mine today as well, 2.5 sets of both XE and LG. That's good, as I'll be able to trade or give away the LG cards to new players or friends that didn't get the cards they wanted.
solbergb 04-18-07, 12:03 PM	I got mine too. I'm now in the rather odd position of having more cards than I need. I've been playing since 2003 in LG, and I've never had more good choices for cards than slots on my characters until now. (as recently as last month, I used "extra deflection" on my level 14 character knowing full well the odds of being shot with a projectile weapon twice in one round in a mod likely to feature mostly undead and constructs from the blurb were similar to my house being hit by a meteor...) And having to make *hard decisions* on which cards to take. Definately nice. Glad to finally see some LG cards again. Some of the non-LG cards don't have action points and/or have non-action-point options, so I wonder if they'll enter the game eventually too.
Madfox11 04-18-07, 01:00 PM	Definately nice. Glad to finally see some LG cards again. Some of the non-LG cards don't have action points and/or have non-action-point options, so I wonder if they'll enter the game eventually too. And only one of them would work in a Greyhawk setting ;) We are talking about them...
Rerednaw 04-18-07, 02:37 PM	I got mine today as well, 2.5 sets of both XE and LG. That's good, as I'll be able to trade or give away the LG cards to new players or friends that didn't get the cards they wanted. I'm sorry, how many rewards points do you need for sets? I thought it was 3 cards per 20 points. And that this time was a one-time doubling. I only have 63 points...but that was worth 6 cards total. Which brings my lifetime total to: 6. Of course any freebie is always welcome. I'm just amazed at how many cards some other people are getting. I wonder how many points the poster who got 5 entire sets of cards (50)accumulated. And how?
solbergb 04-18-07, 02:46 PM	This time I got a lot of cards because 1. I played and judged a lot of adaptables and core specials. They're worth a lot of points. 2. I played and judged at expended premier conventions. They're worth 2x the points 3. I think we had a database snafu around Labor Day and RPGA decided just not to worry about extra reward points given in that period. So I ended up with 2-3x the usual number of cards this time around. My wife, who didn't do all of these things, got the more normal amount of cards.
Britt 04-18-07, 02:57 PM	[/SIZE] I'm sorry, how many rewards points do you need for sets? I thought it was 3 cards per 20 points. And that this time was a one-time doubling. I only have 63 points...but that was worth 6 cards total. Which brings my lifetime total to: 6. Of course any freebie is always welcome. I'm just amazed at how many cards some other people are getting. I wonder how many points the poster who got 5 entire sets of cards (50)accumulated. And how? I received something like 24 cards. If you received cards in the last set, they doubled your cards in this set. They also combined GM and Player points for sending out cards, though not sure on the exact metric. That means I had about 80 points in some way, which is 12 cards, doubled to 24. I'm pretty sure their system disperses the cards sequentially rather than randomly, so 24 cards will always get you at least two sets.
Rerednaw 04-18-07, 04:05 PM	This time I got a lot of cards because 1. I played and judged a lot of adaptables and core specials. They're worth a lot of points. 2. I played and judged at expended premier conventions. They're worth 2x the points 3. I think we had a database snafu around Labor Day and RPGA decided just not to worry about extra reward points given in that period. So I ended up with 2-3x the usual number of cards this time around. My wife, who didn't do all of these things, got the more normal amount of cards. Cool beans thanks for the tips. I noticed that the ADPs are worth quite a bit more...I'm going to see if I can get more of them going locally. So far I'm in Red Hand and I ran (i.e. ate) Scourge. But between the two of them that will be a healthy 24 points right there in this current rewards period.
Mithreinmaethor 04-18-07, 04:59 PM	I am so glad everyone is getting their cards. Its a conspiracy I tell you, a conspiracy, that I dont have mine yet
Japangirl 04-19-07, 05:01 PM	CARDS!! Or more specifically, cards for me :). I'm a happy camper, it was a pleasant surprise when I got home from class today. I'd given up all hope.
Samwise 04-19-07, 11:43 PM	Woot! and Double Woot! 24 cards, as expected. 2 full sets of each, plus 1 extra of each LG card you can have in multiples, and a Force of Command.
Mithreinmaethor 04-20-07, 04:11 AM	Ok bite me. Still no cards here. Woot! and Double Woot! 24 cards, as expected. 2 full sets of each, plus 1 extra of each LG card you can have in multiples, and a Force of Command.
Herrbard 04-20-07, 06:50 AM	Yeah, major frustration setting in. My youngest daughter got her cards two weeks ago (six cards). My oldest got hers last week (15 cards). Me? Still waiting (somewhat) patiently for my expected 24. :allalone:
Samwise 04-20-07, 12:12 PM	Ok bite me. Still no cards here. /me throws in a claw-claw-rake for free :D
Mithreinmaethor 04-23-07, 07:03 PM	Well I finally got my cards today. After 10 months playing LG I finally have more than 1 legal LG card (and that card I got for GM'ing the World Wide Game Day)
jhorred 04-23-07, 08:24 PM	Still haven't received my cards yet... :(
Grovar 04-24-07, 12:04 AM	I just got my cards in today. I got the complete set of Greyhawk cards (and extra Not This Time! and Feat of Strength), and 4/5 of the Xen'drik set (although I got an extra Presence of Command card). The only Xen'drik card I did not get was card 5 of the Set 2 cards. Now I have to make some decisions about if I use these cards. I have some others that I regularly use (2 Feign Surprise, Swift Response, Wink and a Smile, Blessed Relief). I actually like the Greyhawk set.
Fronch 04-24-07, 06:55 PM	I also have not received my cards from this latest cycle, though seemingly everyone else in my local area has. My local Triad suggested that I contact Chris Tulach directly to try to resolve this issue... does anyone have contact info for him?
Britt 04-24-07, 08:19 PM	No, don't try to contact Chris about that. He has enough work to do and doesn't have any control over that. Also, it seems the cards are still shipping and being received, so you need to wait a bit. When you do want to contact someone, try RPGA HQ.
LCJJohnson 04-28-07, 11:15 PM	Well, this thread is giving me hope that I might still receive my cards. My husband and daughter got theirs weeks ago (6 each, amounting to a complete set of LG and Eberron cards between them with two spares). I am keeping my fingers crossed expecting however many cards I get for 60 player/DM points this quarter.
The_Jester 04-29-07, 11:26 AM	I have 50-51 points including ones pulled over from last rewards, so hopefully I'll get my 6/12 cards soon. But it's kinda sad when they're supposed to be out mid-March and large numbers of people are still waiting well into April/May. Especially with the next reward points deadline coming up this weekend. I already know to expect another 6 cards for my 55 pts (45 + 10rollover). The really sad thing is judges rewards seem to be sent out swiftly here, so I'm almost expecting my slowly accrued 20 GM pts and their summer reward to arrive before I see my winter player rewards.
Fronch 04-30-07, 11:52 PM	No, don't try to contact Chris about that. He has enough work to do and doesn't have any control over that. Also, it seems the cards are still shipping and being received, so you need to wait a bit. When you do want to contact someone, try RPGA HQ.Still no cards... Who do I contact at RPGA HQ and how do I get in touch with them?
smerwin29 05-01-07, 07:33 AM	As of yesterday, people are still receiving their cards.
LCJJohnson 05-03-07, 01:04 AM	My cards came in earlier this week. Hang in there.
JJeff 05-03-07, 01:20 AM	Who do I address if my cards came in but I have yet to see my membership card. Do I only get my DM's card when I get my Player's card? I have not seen either.
The_Jester 05-03-07, 07:55 AM	Some people in my area have just received their cards, I shiver with antici... ...pation.
bitznarf 05-05-07, 02:14 AM	Ahah! Even us in the far north have now recived our cards. No snow elf though. I could have used that card sometime next year when more intros came out.
The_Jester 05-05-07, 11:01 AM	I have two. If you have older Eberron cards we might be able to work out a trade.
sibyl 05-10-07, 03:06 PM	While I don't have Charm of the Fortunate, I saw it used a lot at the con I was at on the weekend. Right on the card it says it can only be used once per module/adventure, per table. I can't remember the exact wording, but it was pretty clear. Its a great "save my neck" card, because if you only get one use you better make sure its worth it. I got mine yesterday - Snow Elf, the fatigue one, and the -2 to all d20s for a round. I think that -2 to all d20s is on the overpowered side for a card. Most of the cards require an action of some sort or to be used as part of an action. That's the kind of card where if everyone in the party has one, they can use two of them per encounter...
Shieldhart91 05-10-07, 08:48 PM	I used it every module that my fighter was in. What? I'm hasted? I'm inspired with courage? Someone's marshal aura is up? Power attack for full! 55 damage in one hit on APL 6. Life was good.
KShaver 05-12-07, 11:09 AM	Just got mine yesterday, I guess the delay was to include my shiny new Master level GM card. :) 18 cards, almost two set, guess I get to give some away.
Mommy was an Orc 05-12-07, 12:59 PM	It isn't a question of whether or not you use it more than once - it is a question of whether or not multiple players have it. If every player has it at the table in a mostly single opponent mod, that's 2 rounds of every combat where they're penalized, no save, no SR. That's nasty - and I've seen it partially happen already. While I don't have Charm of the Fortunate, I saw it used a lot at the con I was at on the weekend. Right on the card it says it can only be used once per module/adventure, per table. I can't remember the exact wording, but it was pretty clear. Its a great "save my neck" card, because if you only get one use you better make sure its worth it.
Timlagor 05-12-07, 10:11 PM	The limits are: - You can only have one in your stack - multiples don't stack on an enemy - the card can only be used once per adventure (as you'd expect but because it's an item they have to say that)
Mommy was an Orc 05-13-07, 04:39 PM	The limits are: - You can only have one in your stack - multiples don't stack on an enemy - the card can only be used once per adventure (as you'd expect but because it's an item they have to say that) That's where the problem happens. Let's say the first combat is against a Hill Giant, the 2nd one against a caster and 2 BDFs, and the final one against an evil undead thingy. Combat 1: Player 1 uses it on round 1 Player 2 uses it on round 2 Combat 2: Player 3 uses it on round 1 against the caster then tosses a spell in his direction Player 4 uses it on round 2 on any surviving targets Combat 3: Player 5 uses it on round 1 Player 6 uses it on round 2 Notice how Combat 1 and Combat 3 are going to be a lot easier than they'd normally be. Combat 2 might still be a bit problematic, but that caster is a lot more likely to fail a critical save.
The_Jester 05-13-07, 06:26 PM	Great for fights that last only 2 rounds. After that though... And the plan above only works if you have six people at a table. And all have to have that card which means giving up Bane of My Enemies or Second Wind. And it's no good if you want to play a Snow Elf until at least APL4. And it's only -2 which only really makes/breaks fights at low levels. It might cost them a valuable save but no more than carefully choice of which spell to cast picking the one w/ low saves. And if you, say, use it on the wizard they can just stick to spells that don't require an attack roll.
Timlagor 05-13-07, 11:02 PM	I agree that it's too powerful. I'm not convinced that it's much more powerful than some of the other popular cards: Feign Surprise, Not This Time and Let's Try That Again spring to mind.
Mommy was an Orc 05-14-07, 12:05 AM	Great for fights that last only 2 rounds. After that though... Yup - but a lot of fights won't last more than 2 rounds when you do that.
sibyl 05-14-07, 09:01 AM	It isn't a question of whether or not you use it more than once - it is a question of whether or not multiple players have it. If every player has it at the table in a mostly single opponent mod, that's 2 rounds of every combat where they're penalized, no save, no SR. That's nasty - and I've seen it partially happen already. Which is why I said "Per Table". Not "Per Person". Only ONE Charm of the Fortunate card can be used during the module. Period. Its a nice card, but not overpowered that way.
Mommy was an Orc 05-14-07, 09:11 AM	Which is why I said "Per Table". Not "Per Person". Only ONE Charm of the Fortunate card can be used during the module. Period. Its a nice card, but not overpowered that way. "The benefits of multiple charms of the fortunate do not stack against the same enemy." A table can clearly use more than one card, just not in a way that stacks against the same enemy.
The_Jester 05-14-07, 09:38 AM	The card does clarify that only one charm can be used each game, and with the comment that you can only have one per stack does suggest that once you fire it off no one else can use it either. But I can imagine judges going either way.
Mommy was an Orc 05-14-07, 10:05 AM	The card does clarify that only one charm can be used each game, and with the comment that you can only have one per stack does suggest that once you fire it off no one else can use it either. But I can imagine judges going either way. One per stack means your specific stack. Each player has a stack. When they say stack, think how Magic works.
Timlagor 05-14-07, 11:06 AM	The card does clarify that only one charm can be used each game, and with the comment that you can only have one per stack does suggest that once you fire it off no one else can use it either. But I can imagine judges going either way. That's not what it says. It says: "You can only have one charm of the fortunate in your stack" This is a reference to cards stacks: each player has a card stack so each player may have (and use) one Charm of the Fortunate. You can verify that this is the normal meaning by checking the Xen'Drik CS. I don't know if the LGCs refers to a stack for cards "The benefits of multiple charms of the fortunate do not stack against the same enemy." That one's straightforward. You can have two people play it on the same enemy at the same time and expect it to give a -4 penalty: they overlap (just like all other cases of bonuses/penalties 'from the same source'). "Once activated the charm of the fortunate cannot be used again this adventure" This refers to the specific card. The text is in there because a "Charm of the fortunate" is an (non-consummable) ITEM. As an item it needs to specify how often it can be used or certain people would be claiming that it could be used every day or even every round. [that's all the restrictive text]
Hariman 05-14-07, 07:27 PM	That's not what it says.As an item it needs to specify how often it can be used or certain people would be claiming that it could be used every day or even every round. [that's all the restrictive text] I assume that you mean combat round, not adventure round. (For multiround adventures.) Does that text on the card mean that you can't use it twice in a two round adventure? (Which is the norm for most cards.)
The_Jester 05-14-07, 08:18 PM	"Once activated the charm of the fortunate cannot be used again this adventure" This refers to the specific card. The text is in there because a "Charm of the fortunate" is an (non-consummable) ITEM. As an item it needs to specify how often it can be used or certain people would be claiming that it could be used every day or even every round. BUT you don't see any other cards that are re-usable so why single this one out for re-clarification? And why the extra sentence instead of just adding "Once per adventure you can...." at the very beginning? I can see a few judges interpreting it to mean once used no one else can use one.
Swiftbrook 05-14-07, 08:53 PM	BUT you don't see any other cards that are re-usable so why single this one out for re-clarification? And why the extra sentence instead of just adding "Once per adventure you can...." at the very beginning? I can see a few judges interpreting it to mean once used no one else can use one.Yes you do. I have had 2 Feign Surprise cards in my stack before. -Swiftbrook
Timlagor 05-15-07, 08:22 AM	Hariman: * Yes I meant combat round * The text is quoted above and uses the word "adventure" so it can indeed only be used once in a multi-round adventure * You are actually wrong about the "norm" for cards (or at least what it should be). The actual rule (unenforcable and unused ime) is that you can only use a card once per Event (that means once per convention!) The Jester * Because this one is an Item * They could have worded if differently -I'm not equipped to tell you why they didn't. The Circle actually wrote the card so if you really want it 'from the horse's mouth' you could post in the Q/A thread.
Hariman 05-15-07, 07:30 PM	Hariman: * The text is quoted above and uses the word "adventure" so it can indeed only be used once in a multi-round adventure * You are actually wrong about the "norm" for cards (or at least what it should be). The actual rule (unenforcable and unused ime) is that you can only use a card once per Event (that means once per convention!) Actually, upon re-examination of the LGCS597, it's once per ADVENTURE. Not once per event. So only single uses in multiround mods, but as many uses as you play adventures for a convention. Look under Out of Game benefit rules, page 18, LGCS 597.
Wraith235 05-15-07, 08:31 PM	Are we garunteed to have a DC reguarding the Snow Elf Campaign Card and home Region ... especially with the option comming with the Ruins of greyhawk Mods allowing new characters being able to choose Greyhawk as their home Region this is the only card in which I have any questions about ... everything else is Self explanatory
Timlagor 05-17-07, 02:47 AM	Actually, upon re-examination of the LGCS597, it's once per ADVENTURE. Not once per event. So only single uses in multiround mods, but as many uses as you play adventures for a convention. Look under Out of Game benefit rules, page 18, LGCS 597. Damn Britt and his responding to player posts :D
Hariman 05-18-07, 12:55 AM	Damn Britt and his responding to player posts :D Now wait a minute: What does Britt have to do with me looking up the answer? Or are you joking that that post was a "Britt Post"
Timlagor 05-18-07, 06:02 AM	Now wait a minute: What does Britt have to do with me looking up the answer? Or are you joking that that post was a "Britt Post" The LGCS used to refer to events until Britt came along and corrected all those things we've been bringin up each time a new issue came out. He was quite disgracefully responsive to suggestions for improving the draft ;) [obviously I wasn't being remotely serious]