Post/Author/DateTime	Post
control freak 07-14-07, 01:53 AM	recently i have noticed something, my cleric (5 almost 6) has decided that, i am not going to do any hand to hand (or morning star to head) combat any time soon or ever again probably, and i was curious to others ideas about this but why not take the towershield over a heavy sheild? is there any major reason (other wise +2 ac for no reason other then that i can is good by me) my stats are 12 12 14 8 17(stat bump) 12 Human Cleric of Pelor5, going servant of the cream cheeze feats(cant retrain this year all TU spoken for even thou i got 21 left) improved toughness (3 times this has saved my butt) divine vigor Improved turning (6=extra turning) current items of note +1 full plate +1 heavy sheild +1 ring of deflection (i know it doesnt stack with SoF but its good to have it vs touch) total AC 24 ephod of athority my main goal is turning, buffing, control would it be worth it to never attack again, as i seem to have enough spells for the day
Jamesps 07-14-07, 02:08 AM	I believe you take the armor check penalty to all dex checks. That means initiative... So I guess if you don't care about going first?
jstorrie 07-14-07, 03:10 AM	Because as a cleric you can take a hide shield–only 1 AC lower and still keeping the full cover option–and you'll be proficient with it.
SgtHulka 07-14-07, 01:43 PM	Loosing a shield (removing it and dropping it) only requires a move action. So even if a rare instance comes up where you want to attack, you could easily dump the shield. Tower Shields can also provide total cover...an ability that can be worth its weight in gold. Just be sure to check the FAQ entry to get familiar on how, exactly, that works.
Suvarov454 07-14-07, 04:32 PM	Because as a cleric you can take a hide shield–only 1 AC lower and still keeping the full cover option–and you'll be proficient with it. What book is Hide Shield in, if you don't mind me asking?
Vanadium 07-14-07, 05:11 PM	What book is Hide Shield in, if you don't mind me asking? It is in Sandstorm as one of the opened items from the last LGCS.
Dr.Cornelius 07-14-07, 05:16 PM	Tower Shield, Hide Sandstorm p.99 Shield Bonus to AC: +3 Max Dex Bonus: +4 Armor Check Penalty: -3 Cost: 50gp Weight: 30lbs As a Standard Action, the wielder of a Tower Shield can receive Total Cover against creatures on the other side of the Tower Shield. Using a Tower Shield gives a –1 penalty on attacks. Watch out for the weight - 30 pounds can put many low strength characters into medium or high encumbrance with the corresponding movement and armor check penalty.
Suvarov454 07-15-07, 02:04 PM	Thanks!
kjenks 07-15-07, 03:21 PM	Stats for hide shield are here: http://members.aol.com/kenjenks/lg/
clannagh 07-15-07, 08:02 PM	I believe you take the armor check penalty to all dex checks. That means initiative... So I guess if you don't care about going first? initiative ??? really ?? i have never seen it done that way .. are you sure ?
control freak 07-15-07, 11:41 PM	only if non proficient and initative is not a dex check (the martials aura is a perfect example of it as it specifies it in addition to dex checks) it is an init check heres the worst thing about it, you cant make ranged touch attacks if non proficient
ShinAkuma2 07-16-07, 12:22 AM	only if non proficient and initative is not a dex check (the martials aura is a perfect example of it as it specifies it in addition to dex checks) it is an init check That's an interesting interpretation, given that the core rules say otherwise. At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check. Perhaps the writer of the class didn't know that Initiative is a Dex check. Maybe in 3.0, it wasn't. However, given that your PHB says that it is, the Marshal class can't change that.
Jamesps 07-16-07, 12:27 AM	"The initiative check in combat, for example, is essentially a Dexterity check." Player's Handbook, pg 66. You could argue that since it says essentially it doesn't count, but you're going to have to deal with table variation because an initiative check is a twenty sided die plus your dex bonus, which is by definition an ability check.
JJeff 07-16-07, 09:09 PM	Interestingly, is initiative recalculated each round? If I start a combat without the tower shield and then later in the combat pull it out to use it, and I am not proficient, does my initiative suddenly go down? And for ease of explaining how I suddenly pull out a tower shield, assume a Bag of Holding containing said Tower Shield.
kjenks 07-16-07, 09:32 PM	No, initiative is only done at the start of the combat. If you Dex bonus changes during combat, it can't affect your initiative score. But check this out: You're surprised. One of your buddies acts during the surprise round and he casts Cat's Grace on you before you roll your init. When you get a chance to roll, you use your modified Dex score.
lseelba 07-18-07, 02:47 AM	would it be worth it to never attack again, as i seem to have enough spells for the day Only if you never have to make ranged touch attacks or melee touch attacks.
Iswald 07-18-07, 08:53 AM	Interestingly, is initiative recalculated each round? If I start a combat without the tower shield and then later in the combat pull it out to use it, and I am not proficient, does my initiative suddenly go down? There are optional rules in the DMG about rerolling init each round. LG doesn't use these rules. Watch out for the weight - 30 pounds can put many low strength characters into medium or high encumbrance with the corresponding movement and armor check penalty. my stats are 12 12 14 8 17(stat bump) 12 Human Cleric of Pelor5, going servant of the cream cheeze current items of note +1 full plate +1 heavy sheild I assume that the first 12 is for strength. But, with full plate, the PC is already moving at 20'/round. Add in a weapon and misc gear and the PC may also be carrying a heavy load (87+ lbs). If not, then a hide tower shield or a standard metal tower shield would both put the PC into a heavy load. The upper end is far enough away that it doesn't matter which is used. Well, as long as he doesn't have to carry any loot or bodies. :D
Evanta 07-18-07, 09:54 PM	initiative ??? really ?? i have never seen it done that way .. are you sure ? Armour Penalties only affect certain DEX checks... http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm#armorCheckPenalty I'm pretty sure PHB states pretty much the same thing.
_metz_ 07-18-07, 10:31 PM	initiative ??? really ?? i have never seen it done that way .. are you sure ? Thats how it is, yes, one of the major downsides of not being proficient. From SRD: Nonproficient with Armor Worn A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he or she is not proficient takes the armor’s (and/or shield’s) armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all Strength-based and Dexterity-based ability and skill checks. The penalty for nonproficiency with armor stacks with the penalty for nonproficiency with shields. emphasis Added. Hence: From SRD An initiative check is a Dexterity check. So thats the rule, just doesn't crop up that often.