Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GreenKnight 05-24-07, 12:45 PM	Just wondering. Thanks for any and all answers.
solbergb 05-24-07, 01:00 PM	1. Probably not for universal Open access. So far only PHB2, "Complete" series and "Races" series are made open, and it's been out a while, so if they were going to add it, they would have already. (spell compendium inherited a bunch of "complete" book spells) 2. On an AR - maybe. Although I have yet to see any of the "tome of" books on AR's. I've seen a lot of Heroes Of stuff. But don't hold your breath, or expect to get the right stuff o nteh right character. Should lightning strike, retraining will most likely let you make some use of the access. just the opinion of a random person who has watched how access has been given out and how it has mutated from year3 to year7
bitznarf 05-24-07, 01:10 PM	I think access to the shadow caster classes from ToM has made it in, from one of the Core Specials IIRC. Either Dread Spiral or Hanging Glacier I think.
awroe 05-24-07, 01:50 PM	I think access to the shadow caster classes from ToM has made it in, from one of the Core Specials IIRC. Either Dread Spiral or Hanging Glacier I think. It was Dread Spiral.
vvincent 05-24-07, 02:24 PM	Don't plan around it. We have been told by our Circle Rep that Tome of Battle will not be available in LG. Shadowmagic was only sparingly permitted due to a canonical reason (shadow magic existing in Greyhawk), whereas no such background exists for Tome of Battle. Another reason is that the maneuver system in ToB is a whole new set of rules that DMs would need to be familiar with. While Shadow Magic is also a new rule set, the relative rarity of Shadowcasters mitigates the learning curve. Short answer: It's not coming. Vernon L. Vincent Verbobonc Triad (of course, if anyone knows otherwise, please feel free to correct me).
Eric Anondson 05-24-07, 04:02 PM	As I recall, Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords was developed as an experiment for campaigns that were magic-poor settings. The classes had built-in power boosts to compensate not having ready access to magic items and buff spells. Importing those types of classes into a setting that has ready access to magic items and spells is asking for problems.
Shieldhart91 05-24-07, 07:42 PM	Tome of Battle...while it is a nice book, and I do like it- Eric Anondson has a point in that it's better for campaigns where there is little, if any magic as it takes fighters and practically gives them "spells" (IE combat manuevers.) I wouldn't like LG even if ToB was incorporated into it >.< Tome of Battle, like Vern says, just adds another layer of complex rules into the system. It's just like trying to add psionics into Greyhawk: won't fit, don't need it, and we're still happy.
Timlagor 05-24-07, 08:21 PM	I like the look of ToB but I believe multiple Circle members have made comments like "not even over my dead body" on this one so it won't be any time soon.
bitznarf 05-24-07, 09:52 PM	I think that the biggest reason that the book shouldn't be included is that it would make non ToB melee characters look so much weaker in comparison. These ToB PCs would still be behind a true caster, but it does close the gap. ToB is sort of a all or nothing deal in a campaign from what I can tell: either everyone needs to have it available or no one does. Your basic fighter is a ToB class rather than Fighter. And Fighter would be relegated further into the 2-4 level dip zone. The book is hardly broken in my opinion, what it does close the gap between magic users and melee users, essentially creating an alternate melee system in much the same way ToM introduced alternate magic systems. 9th level manoeuvres are roughly equal to 6th level spells when compared against each other.
LGMoses 05-25-07, 02:02 AM	God I hope not. :(
Timlagor 05-25-07, 03:18 PM	the biggest flaw imo is that you can count your non-initiate levels towards your initiate level (some of you will know what I mean) making 'dips' at higher levels absurdly powerful for an otherwise non-ToB character.