Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mondrin 04-22-04, 06:01 PM	Starting my first character in Living Greyhawk and have chosen the somewhat odd Dwarven wizard. I'm wondering if the toughness feat is really worth getting? I know that if I do it will be at 1st level where you really need those hits. It's either that or point blank shot. thought I'd troll for some opinions.
Marcia_S 04-23-04, 12:38 AM	I can think of a lot of things that are more universally useful for a wizard than Toughness. 3 extra HPs is only really useful at very low levels. You're soon going to wish you had something else. How about Skill Focus: Concentration? Spell Focus? Also, Point Blank Shot and the whole ranged feat tree is good for those ray attacks. Marcia
Jeryl 04-23-04, 01:59 AM	A wizard does'nt need that many feats. I lost 3 characters in LG, all of them were level 1. I recommend taking it instead of saying, "darn, -11, so close to be alive".
Simpi 04-23-04, 03:08 AM	You are a dwarf so just putting your constitution to 14 or 16 should be quite ok. Spell Focus - something might be ok, especially if you plan to take Augment Summoning
TallGuy 04-23-04, 10:33 AM	IMHO it's not worth it. The 3 extra hitpoints are nice, but a crit will kill you anyways. Instead, pick a metamagic feat, like extend spell, or silent spell, or spell focus. You'll need every single bonus to your save DCs at higher level, and at lower levels a DC15 Color Spray will drop most if not all of your adversaries. Also, check out which feats you'd like at later levels, and what you need as pre-requisites. :) Bas Vermeulen
Simpi 04-23-04, 11:18 AM	Bas is right. Also. If you are dwarf just for the constitution bonus, you might even consider a gnome illusionist/regular wizard character instead. Only good thing that you lose is darkvision, but other good things, such as additional +1 to your illusion DC spells, compensate it more than enough. And who needs darkvision when you can cast Dancing Lights naturally:D
Mondrin 04-23-04, 02:20 PM	Spell focus is not as worth it anymore with only a +1 DC to one school. Sure it would be nice to have the extra punch for color spray at level 1 but what a waste to take spell focus: Illusion. If I don't take toughness at level 1 I will take Point Blank shot. I'm most likely going to grab a fighter level at level 2 so I can possibly take Spell sword later, or at least get the ability to use the weapons I want, get an extra feat and basically get the toughness feat for free since the fighter gets 3 hits more than the wizard. I won't sacrifice more than 1 level of spell progression though. It's too bad complete arcane is so far off. they will have great feats and classes there and I just hope I can still take some if I want them.
lutherreed 04-23-04, 02:39 PM	If you are going to take a level of Fighter I'd recommend taking that before the wizard level, if you are worried about HP. You would start with 6 more HP and at second level you would have 13 instead of 10. Same as taking toughness. Plus you would get your extra feat now, at first level which maybe more useful.
Mondrin 04-23-04, 02:58 PM	I thought about that but you really lose out on the skills a wizard needs. Plus with a 10 STR he won't be able to carry much, or be that useful in combat. I'd much rather play his as a wizard for his first 3 adventures. It's too bad they can't give 1 feat that would do Point blank and precise shot for only ray attacks. It's hard to spend 2 feats just for that.
lutherreed 04-23-04, 06:11 PM	Something you should be aware of - a dwarf can carry as much as he wants with out effecting his speed. Remember with a medium or heavy load or wearing medium or heavy armor, a dwarf still moves 20' (though you still take armor check penalties and spell failure %). And with Point Blank and Percise, you are more of a longbow fighter anyway. So Str only matters if you are useing Mighty Composite Bows
Thannin 04-25-04, 11:30 AM	Hey, maybe I can be of some assistance, as I have a LG tenth level elemental savant that happens to be a dwarf. The first thing you should realize is that dwarven wizards are incredibly common in LG. I dont know why, I dont know how, but Ive seen tons and tons of them. When I created my character I thought I would be original and I took toughness(until 3.5) and maxed out my constitution and played a really really tought dwarven meat shield wizard. However, that one feat becomes obsolete when I get my hitpoints over 100 via false life and endurance. So in 3.5 I dropped it and Im glad I did as there are many other more important feats are have. Some of the best wizard feats are below, despite some people saying ranged feats.... 1) empower spell( 15d6 at 10th level fireballs>cone of colds)(empowered ray of enfeeblement=ubah) 2) Depending on your constitution score combat casting can be an incredible life saver. Most people push it aside as its only useful for casting defensively. However, unless you have a rediculously high constitution score and a +4 concentration amulet like me, you'll need it. To cast defensively you have to make a DC 15+spell level. A 17th level wizard casting spells has ranks equal to 20(17+3) and has to make a DC 24 concentration check to cast defensively. While not the best example, it stresses that you either a) need a good constitution, B) need combat casting, or C) want to risk a 5% spell failure. As any good player knows, even 5% is risky. 3) If you're going for a prestige class there are many benefits to planning feat progression. I like elemental savant(might change in complete arcane) because it offers the close to earth dwarven character I enjoy playing, despite the occasional fly or suicide bombing I may perform with him, and also because it offers a host of abilities that suit my character. I would take a look at what feats would allow you what you want and stick with them. Those are just a few tips to playing a successful and fun dwarven wizards, I would also suggest having a really good intelligence and not so bad dexterity as I chose to focus on con and then int and it hurt me in the end. :behold:
Mondrin 04-25-04, 04:02 PM	I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that a dwarf mage is common. The CON loss you get as an elf really hurts the mage. I did choose to start with a high INT and CON and have a moderate DEX as well. High being 16. I don't think it's wise to start with stats higher than that because it really hurts your other stats. I've looked at the available prestige classes and the only two that looked of interest would be spell sword or the elemental savant. I'm a bit leary of working towards the later because I don't know if it will still be around when complete arcane comes out or if it will be changed. 1 level of spell sword would be nice as it would allow the use of a Mithral Chain shirt with no spell failure. I do plan on getting empower spell as it's too useful. I'll get CWI and possibly CW as well. I'll get Maximize spell later in addition to spell penatration. The ranged feats are great for low level when you'll end up using your crossbow or later when you fight things that you aren't effective against (golems, etc). There are few spells that benefit. I don't like Melf's acid arrow. Acid orb is fun for a 0 level spell. Disintegrate is the best of the bunch. It all depends on how I want to mold the character conception. I tend to not get the best things for my characters as they don't fit the conception I have. I may still end up taking toughness, endurance and die hard just because it fits what I want to play. I'm sure when Complete Arcane comes out there will be many other possibilities. I'm sure even Complete Divine will have some interesting things. All tough choices. But if they weren't tough the game wouldn't be balanced.
Sieylianna 04-25-04, 09:44 PM	Originally posted by Thannin 1) empower spell( 15d6 at 10th level fireballs>cone of colds)(empowered ray of enfeeblement=ubah) 2) Depending on your constitution score combat casting can be an incredible life saver. Most people push it aside as its only useful for casting defensively. However, unless you have a rediculously high constitution score and a +4 concentration amulet like me, you'll need it. To cast defensively you have to make a DC 15+spell level. A 17th level wizard casting spells has ranks equal to 20(17+3) and has to make a DC 24 concentration check to cast defensively. While not the best example, it stresses that you either a) need a good constitution, B) need combat casting, or C) want to risk a 5% spell failure. As any good player knows, even 5% is risky. I've never seen a dwarven wizard. There may be more of them in Geoff because of their bonuses versus giants. I've seen lots of grey elf and human wizards. My wizard is a 15th level grey elf. Combat casting is pretty much a waste in 3.5. Take Skill Focus (Concentration) instead. It's only +3 instead of +4, but it helps for ALL concentration checks. The absolute best player reward card (IMO) is "Let's try that again". I have two of them and rerolling Concentration checks is the primary use for spell casters. Ed
lutherreed 04-25-04, 11:55 PM	One other thing you might consider.. Improved Toughness. It is now a core Feat from CW. You would have to wait till 3rd level I believe to take it (as a wizard) but it would be more effective than just Toughness.
obungen 04-26-04, 01:25 PM	A Toad familiar also gets you +3 HP in 3.5...equal to Toughness feat. You can switch to a more useful familiar later on. JW
Mondrin 04-26-04, 02:23 PM	The toad-Improved toughness road is an interesting one. You get your 3 hits early on from your toad and when you pick up improved toughness you can drop the toad for something better...like a weasel since REF saves are horrid. Of course you want to make sure you can pull the save off and don't mind waiting a year to get the new familiar. Improved toughness is also a nice feat if you plan on taking a level of fighter as it's a fighter feat.
TheatreRat81 04-30-04, 05:21 PM	i'm playing a dwarven wizard down in Nyrond, and i'm the only one i've seen so far. lots of dwarven fighters and point-ear'd finger wigglers - both of which like to look down on me... until i blow up the BBEG, that is.