Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SgtHulka 04-06-05, 04:42 PM	I'm getting all geeked for the new Bright Desert story arc, and I'm hoping to create either a badlands Dwarven Ranger or a Gnome Ranger following an old west death valley miner archetype, but I'd like them to ride either a Mule (for the Dwarf) or a Donkey (for the Gnome). I know you can train an animal one trick per time unit with the Handle Animal skill, but I'm confused about how to train a Mule or a Donkey for Combat Riding. How many weeks would that take? Are these animals already considered trained for standard riding when purchased? I know the LGCS specifically says they aren't trained with the "attack" trick.
kenobi65 04-06-05, 04:46 PM	What it is with you and critters, Hulka? ;) (Maybe now we know what goes into Hulkaburgers.)
qstor 04-07-05, 09:26 AM	I'm getting all geeked for the new Bright Desert story arc, and I'm hoping to create either a badlands Dwarven Ranger or a Gnome Ranger following an old west death valley miner archetype, but I'd like them to ride either a Mule (for the Dwarf) or a Donkey (for the Gnome). I know you can train an animal one trick per time unit with the Handle Animal skill, but I'm confused about how to train a Mule or a Donkey for Combat Riding. How many weeks would that take? Are these animals already considered trained for standard riding when purchased? I know the LGCS specifically says they aren't trained with the "attack" trick. Check in the LGCS. You have to have the ranks in Handle Animal, spend a TU and make the HA check in front of the DM. IIRC. Mike
SgtHulka 04-07-05, 10:11 AM	What it is with you and critters, Hulka? ;) (Maybe now we know what goes into Hulkaburgers.) Hey, that's libel! Hulkaburgers use nothing but grade A beef already rejected from the U.S. Army Commissaries! (I'm impressed you recognized the handle, actually.) Check in the LGCS. You have to have the ranks in Handle Animal, spend a TU and make the HA check in front of the DM. IIRC. Mike Thanks for the response, Mike, that part I knew. But despite all that I'm still confused. A Donkey has an Intelligence of 2, so I take that to mean it can be taught 6 tricks. Normally, animals start with the Attack trick but the Donkey doesn't. Additionally, according to the LGCS page 40, a purchased animal starts with one trick per Int, so a Donkey starts with 2. However, according to the PH page 75, an animal trained for basic Riding starts with the tricks Come, Heel and Stay. So that means that none of the animals in the Player's Handbook, apart from Warhorses, Warponies and Riding Dogs, which are described as specific exceptions, start with basic riding training. A Riding Horse, for example, could start with, at best Attack, Come and Heel, not stay (since it starts with Attack, and can be given Come and Heel for free). That sounds wrong to me, but let's for the moment assume it isn't. Now, Combat Riding requires the tricks attack (DC20), come (DC15), defend (DC20), down (DC15), guard (DC20), and heel (DC 15). So, the most efficient way to train a War Donkey would be to give it Attack and Defend (or Guard) when purchased, take as many time units as required to roll a DC 20 on Guard, and ten take as many time units as required to roll a DC 15 on Come, Down and Heel. So a minimum of 4 TU's. But, that assumes the Donkey isn't already trained for Riding. And even if it isn't, you could buy it knowing Come and Heel, and spend one TU teaching it Stay so it knows basic Riding. Could you then "upgrade" it as per the Handle Animal skill in the PHB page 75 by spending 3 TU's and making a DC 20 roll? If you've got a really high Handle Animal skill, both ways of training the Donkey are identical -- 4 weeks time. But if you don't, the second way is preferable -- at the very least you've trained the donkey to bear a rider in a basic way, and you only have to make a single DC20 per try to upgrade it, whereas the other way you have to make a DC20 and three DC15's. In other words, you lose two DC 15's that you would have to make if you taught it Combat Riding from scratch. Also, can you only do this after Regionals and Meta-Regionals? If so, it would all be pointless for a character created for the Bright Desert series. Lastly, in the Monster Manual Light and Heavy Horses make all attacks as secondary, incurring a -5 penalty. If you were to train a Riding Horse to know Combat Riding, would it still receive that -5 penalty? This is also relevant to Druids and Rangers, who can choose a Horse as their animal companion.
Deke55555 04-07-05, 02:47 PM	I have sort of a related question. Does anyone know if the new animal training options (the tricks) from CA are allowed in LG? I know that the spellbook rules and assisting rules are used from that source, but I hadn't heard anything specific on the tricks.
kenobi65 04-07-05, 05:29 PM	Hey, that's libel! Hulkaburgers use nothing but grade A beef already rejected from the U.S. Army Commissaries! (I'm impressed you recognized the handle, actually.) Some of us are old. :D
Southernskies 04-09-05, 08:26 AM	Lastly, in the Monster Manual Light and Heavy Horses make all attacks as secondary, incurring a -5 penalty. If you were to train a Riding Horse to know Combat Riding, would it still receive that -5 penalty? This is also relevant to Druids and Rangers, who can choose a Horse as their animal companion. The animal still received the -5 penalty. It's not a simple matter of re-training, its 2-3 years worth of raising and also breeding. Interesting that the mule does not suffer this penalty.
SgtHulka 04-09-05, 11:52 AM	The animal still received the -5 penalty. It's not a simple matter of re-training, its 2-3 years worth of raising and also breeding. That's what I suspected. Interesting that the mule does not suffer this penalty. Perhaps that is why the the Circle decided to make an exception to the mule and donkey, stating that it doesn't come trained with the "Attack" trick.