Two Warmage Questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Two Warmage Questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JohnduBois
01-31-05, 06:26 PM Situation: I have a level 1 Barbarian who was originally going to tech to Rage Mage with Sorcerer levels. After reading Warmage, I am beginning to reconsider. This character has an 8 INT and is planning on taking a level of Warmage at level 2. I have received conflicting rulings on both these questions, and I would like to have a reference to an official ruling on them, as opposed to "I would/wouldn't let you do it at my table". While a general consensus is usually appreciated, "not letting me do it at your table" would have serious ramifications for this character's survivability.

1. Am I required to apply my INT mod to damage-dealing spells with Warmage Edge? Can I simply choose not to apply "the edge" and deal full damage instead of damage -1?

2. Can I cast non-PHB spells on the Warmage list before I hit character level 3rd?

Thank you for any official insight you can provide or direct me to.
King Kashue
01-31-05, 06:46 PM Situation: I have a level 1 Barbarian who was originally going to tech to Rage Mage with Sorcerer levels. After reading Warmage, I am beginning to reconsider. This character has an 8 INT and is planning on taking a level of Warmage at level 2. I have received conflicting rulings on both these questions, and I would like to have a reference to an official ruling on them, as opposed to "I would/wouldn't let you do it at my table". While a general consensus is usually appreciated, "not letting me do it at your table" would have serious ramifications for this character's survivability.

1. Am I required to apply my INT mod to damage-dealing spells with Warmage Edge? Can I simply choose not to apply "the edge" and deal full damage instead of damage -1?

2. Can I cast non-PHB spells on the Warmage list before I hit character level 3rd?

Thank you for any official insight you can provide or direct me to.

On the first point, I would say no, since it says apply it if it's there but it doesn't mention applying penalty...However, it's abigious...

As for question two, no, you may not cast non-PHB spells before character level 3...
Iswald
02-14-05, 09:13 AM Warmage Edge allows warmages to add their int bonus (if any) to the damage done by spells. Since you don't have an int bonus with only 8 int, the modifier isn't applied.

Warmages are a core class. All abilities of the class, including spellcasting, should be considered as core access for that class. Other classes, however, would still have to wait to use non-core abilities granted to warmages.
JohnduBois
02-14-05, 09:22 AM While Warmages are a core class and gain access to class abilities (such as Sudden Metamagic feats) as core, this does not override the rule that characters do not gain access to non-PHB spells or feats until 3rd level. The only reason that the Sudden feats are mentioned is that these feats are Limited for other characters. I got a ruling from the Circle on that one.
Iswald
02-14-05, 10:56 AM Well... that's rather... imbecilic... One of the stated reasons that characters aren't allowed to convert into non-PHB base classes is to see how those base classes perform starting at level one. Since you never see the true behavior of warmages at levels one and two, the experiment is pointless.

Also, clerics will be allowed to select spells from domains that come from outside the PHB -- starting at level one. Why make an exception for clerics? In addition, there are numerous non-PHB feats that are allowed at character creation, based on the character's starting region, race, and even class. The circle's decision makes things more complicated than necessary.
King Kashue
02-14-05, 02:35 PM Well... that's rather... imbecilic... One of the stated reasons that characters aren't allowed to convert into non-PHB base classes is to see how those base classes perform starting at level one. Since you never see the true behavior of warmages at levels one and two, the experiment is pointless.

Also, clerics will be allowed to select spells from domains that come from outside the PHB -- starting at level one. Why make an exception for clerics? In addition, there are numerous non-PHB feats that are allowed at character creation, based on the character's starting region, race, and even class. The circle's decision makes things more complicated than necessary.

There's reasoning behind both of those though...The Dragon Magazine feats are, as you note, primarily origin feats, not being able to take those at 1st level (the origin of the character) defeats the purpose...As for the Clerics, if they cannot take a domain spell because its outside of the PHB, they don't get any spell in that slot (since it must be filled by a domain spell) and they would be "one spell short"...The Warmage isn't denied any spells per day, just limited in his selection of spells...Not sure I buy that, but the internal logic is there...
Iswald
02-15-05, 09:27 AM Actually, unless the cleric takes both domains from outside of the PHB, they will still be able to take a domain spell. Even if the don't too bad! Warmages don't get all their spells either, and it's only for two levels that the cleric would have to suffer.

By trying to avoid making warmages into an exception (which they wouldn't be), they are making them into an exception. Every allowed base class and every allowed PrC can use all of their abilities starting at the first level that you take that class, except for warmages.

More likely, the circle is thinking along the lines of warmages being too powerful. So instead of letting them use all of the spells that they have, the circle has limited their abilities from the start as a more conservative approach than taking away spells later. This might also discourage some people from making warmages so that there are less of them. However, it's not so much that warmages are overpowered as modules, at least those I've played, tend to over-emphasis combat. Since this is where warmages shine brightest, it could become an issue. Really though, this is just a symptom of... I don't want to say bad writing or bad module design... but more that modules should be written to make better use of non-combat situations and abilities related to them. It would be less irksome if the circle were to state the logic behind their decision. Unless of course they just don't want any spellcasters (except for privilidged clerics) to take spells from outside of the PHB before level 3 even if it is a part of the class, which would still be idiotic.
King Kashue
02-15-05, 02:38 PM Actually, unless the cleric takes both domains from outside of the PHB, they will still be able to take a domain spell. Even if the don't too bad! Warmages don't get all their spells either, and it's only for two levels that the cleric would have to suffer.

Not the same...Warmages have a limitation in spell selection, whereas clerics wold have less spells per day, a much more serious limitation...
mage189
02-16-05, 11:11 AM Blah, what a silly thing to thing. Of course you can cast your spells!

As a Warmage you don't have spells you can pick except like 4 or 5 times in your full lifetime career. Your spell list is already picked out for you, so you don't have a choice.

You can't select any spellls/feats that arn't core before 3rd level, minus the stuff that they allow like all the 1st level feats.

However, since you don't select your spells or your spell list as a Warmage, your perfectly able to cast every 1st level spell on that list without any problems, and you should make an effort to do so. If some how you just had access to the spells on your spell list and had to select them as you leveled like a Wizard/Sorcerer, that's where you'd end up having to wait till 3rd level.

For a Warmage, the moment you can cast a 1st level spell, you can cast all the spells on your list for 1st level spells that arn't NPC ONLY/RESTRICTED.

Now for why your trying to make a rage mage and only have an 8 for INT, that I can't quite understand. But all in all the Warmage Edge says to "add your INT bonus (if any)" to the damage of the spells. It does *NOT* say add your INT modifier (if any). This would imply that if you had a penalty, your spells do not suddenly do less damage. Your a charisma based character, the Warmage Edge is just a little bonus thing that they put in there to make it more interesting and even further better then a Sorcerer.
CSHunt68
02-16-05, 11:57 AM Blah, what a silly thing to thing. Of course you can cast your spells!

As a Warmage you don't have spells you can pick except like 4 or 5 times in your full lifetime career. Your spell list is already picked out for you, so you don't have a choice.

You can't select any spellls/feats that arn't core before 3rd level, minus the stuff that they allow like all the 1st level feats.

However, since you don't select your spells or your spell list as a Warmage, your perfectly able to cast every 1st level spell on that list without any problems, and you should make an effort to do so. If some how you just had access to the spells on your spell list and had to select them as you leveled like a Wizard/Sorcerer, that's where you'd end up having to wait till 3rd level.

For a Warmage, the moment you can cast a 1st level spell, you can cast all the spells on your list for 1st level spells that arn't NPC ONLY/RESTRICTED.

This is incorrect, and has already been ruled on in LG.
Warmages DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO NON-PHB SPELLS UNTIL 3RD LEVEL.
Period.
Anyone who thinks this is a big drawback to the class ...
mage189
02-17-05, 12:47 AM Having done more research it seems I'm wrong.

Well, wrong in the sense that the spells can't be used until 3rd level.

However, I don't beleive that I'm actually wrong in thinking that the rule about 3rd level for noncore book shouldn't apply towards Warmage.

It's pretty damn weak. So what else? What if I'm 1st level and happen upon a scroll of Critical Stike? I can't read it because I'm first level? :P
kenobi65
02-17-05, 10:39 AM It's pretty damn weak. So what else? What if I'm 1st level and happen upon a scroll of Critical Stike? I can't read it because I'm first level? :P

If you happen upon a scroll of Critical Strike, that'd mean it's also appearing on the AR for that module. And, access granted via the AR trumps the basic access rules in the LGCR.
mage189
02-17-05, 10:45 AM I was being sarcastic.... >.>;

An what if it isn't on the AR? Hmmmm?
King Kashue
02-17-05, 02:42 PM I was being sarcastic.... >.>;

An what if it isn't on the AR? Hmmmm?

Then you can use it in the mod, like anything else in the module (but if it is included in the treasure totals, then you're burning that portion of the treasure), but you cannot have it after the mod, just like you generally can't keep the mugs from the tavern or the pillows off the bed, or any other of a thousand things that are in the module...
Xeion
03-09-05, 07:12 AM This is incorrect, and has already been ruled on in LG.
Warmages DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO NON-PHB SPELLS UNTIL 3RD LEVEL.
Period.
Anyone who thinks this is a big drawback to the class ...

If you say it has been ruled on, were is the ruling?
Simpi
03-09-05, 07:50 AM If you say it has been ruled on, were is the ruling?

LGCS P. 24. General comment about 'core' access, which is limited to 3rd level characters or higher. Several warmage spells (Like Lesser Acid Orb) are there, thus they cannot be taken until 3rd level.

S.H, Ahlissa (Naerie) webslave
CSHunt68
03-09-05, 08:11 AM If you say it has been ruled on, were is the ruling?

From the LG Yahoo Group:
"As I recall, this was addressed on the Draft discussion list at one
point. Basically, it boils down to: Characters can't use spells from
non-PHB sources until they are 3rd level, and that includes the warmage.
So yeah, you're going to be nerfed for your first two levels in that
class, unless there's something new in the LGCS that you missed and I
haven't read yet."
and
"And as an addemdum to this, domains for spells ONLY are an
exception to this if not in the PHB, but in a core supplament (LGCS
4.1 P 33)."
Got it?
Xeion
03-21-05, 07:39 AM I was not griping, When it comes to RPGA I want a source I can site as an official scource. A message board or Yahoo group is NOT official.

As such I e-mailed a council member and got this:you can only use the spells provided in the PHB for a warmage at 1st and 2nd level. it is not till 3rd level when it opens up the other ones from the complete books (as long as they are core access b/c you can't use them until 3rd)

Yes I know it is the same as what was said, but again I wanted an official, site able source.
JohnduBois
03-21-05, 08:25 AM So... what is it about a direct quotation from the latest LGCS with page number referenced that is not official?
Xeion
03-21-05, 09:13 AM The text doen't specificlly say either way for the warmage, it says he gets the feats but doesn't mention the spells. they should have added the part about the spells. (There are core things you get from new classes that aren't in the PHB)

It doesn't now matter cause I got a ruling from the council.
CSHunt68
03-21-05, 09:57 AM I was not griping, When it comes to RPGA I want a source I can site as an official scource. A message board or Yahoo group is NOT official.

As such I e-mailed a council member and got this:

Yes I know it is the same as what was said, but again I wanted an official, site able source.

As I (and others) indicated, the ruling was official.
Glad you were able to confirm that for yourself ...
Oh, BTW, if you don't think message board postings are an official, site able (sic) source, then emails certainly aren't.
Again, the LGCS laid it out plain, and the council interpretation was given to you.
Quit griping.
:)
King Kashue
03-21-05, 04:01 PM The text doen't specificlly say either way for the warmage, it says he gets the feats but doesn't mention the spells. they should have added the part about the spells. (There are core things you get from new classes that aren't in the PHB)

It doesn't now matter cause I got a ruling from the council.

None of the feats are available before 3rd level, so your example of the feats being an exception to the LGCS is not valid...

And Chris Tulach (who still needs to get me my GenCon UK Castle Greyhawk info ;) ), a member of the circle and one of the chief architects of the new LGCS specifically clarified the rule on this board...
Sieylianna
03-21-05, 04:41 PM The text doen't specificlly say either way for the warmage, it says he gets the feats but doesn't mention the spells. they should have added the part about the spells. (There are core things you get from new classes that aren't in the PHB)

It doesn't now matter cause I got a ruling from the council.

And your ruling from the council is worth nothing. It's not an official campaign source and your judge is free to ignore it. An email is no more credible than a Circle posting to a Yahoo group (except LG-NEWS).

Ed
Xeion
03-21-05, 09:37 PM None of the feats are available before 3rd level, so your example of the feats being an exception to the LGCS is not valid...

And Chris Tulach (who still needs to get me my GenCon UK Castle Greyhawk info ;) ), a member of the circle and one of the chief architects of the new LGCS specifically clarified the rule on this board...

Wrong, the Warmage feats ARE avalible it is noted in the LGCS pg.34 (at the bottom as a foot note.)

I didn't see anyone put that they are a memeber of the Circle in any replies.

And your ruling from the council is worth nothing. It's not an official campaign source and your judge is free to ignore it. An email is no more credible than a Circle posting to a Yahoo group (except LG-NEWS).

As far as the DM's in my area it is as good as offcial. At events like Gen-Con there are official judges, plus I should be level 3 by then anyways.
TimRat
03-21-05, 09:48 PM Ok most of the answers lie within the replies on this post but i'll make it official since i'm a circle member for LG.

You can't cast any of the non-PHB warmage spells till 3rd level. Its not that big of hit to begin with as you still got quite a few good ones.

In regards to the feats of the warmage that footnote refers to the sudden line of feats which are limited (usually meaning you need documentation to take) this just means you don't have to have documentation for them when you get them for free as a bonus for taking the class.

Tim Sech
VTF Circle Member
Xeion
03-21-05, 10:01 PM Thank you for posting and signing that.

You as a Circle Member can probably understand why I wanted an official answer. (or what could be considered an official answer)
King Kashue
03-22-05, 05:06 AM Wrong, the Warmage feats ARE avalible it is noted in the LGCS pg.34 (at the bottom as a foot note.)

I didn't see anyone put that they are a memeber of the Circle in any replies.

Read the class description...The feats to which you refer are gained at 7th, 10th, 15th, and levels (Sudden Empower, enlarge, and widen respectively)...Exactly which one of those feats do you gain prior to 3rd level?

Maybe if you're going to be arrogant, you might first make sure you're accurate...

As for Mr. Tulach's post, it was on the boards, not in this particular thread...Do a search on either the subject of warmages or his posts in particular...Assuming the search function decides to work, his posts on the subject should be quite easy to find...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JohnduBois 01-31-05, 06:26 PM	Situation: I have a level 1 Barbarian who was originally going to tech to Rage Mage with Sorcerer levels. After reading Warmage, I am beginning to reconsider. This character has an 8 INT and is planning on taking a level of Warmage at level 2. I have received conflicting rulings on both these questions, and I would like to have a reference to an official ruling on them, as opposed to "I would/wouldn't let you do it at my table". While a general consensus is usually appreciated, "not letting me do it at your table" would have serious ramifications for this character's survivability. 1. Am I required to apply my INT mod to damage-dealing spells with Warmage Edge? Can I simply choose not to apply "the edge" and deal full damage instead of damage -1? 2. Can I cast non-PHB spells on the Warmage list before I hit character level 3rd? Thank you for any official insight you can provide or direct me to.
King Kashue 01-31-05, 06:46 PM	Situation: I have a level 1 Barbarian who was originally going to tech to Rage Mage with Sorcerer levels. After reading Warmage, I am beginning to reconsider. This character has an 8 INT and is planning on taking a level of Warmage at level 2. I have received conflicting rulings on both these questions, and I would like to have a reference to an official ruling on them, as opposed to "I would/wouldn't let you do it at my table". While a general consensus is usually appreciated, "not letting me do it at your table" would have serious ramifications for this character's survivability. 1. Am I required to apply my INT mod to damage-dealing spells with Warmage Edge? Can I simply choose not to apply "the edge" and deal full damage instead of damage -1? 2. Can I cast non-PHB spells on the Warmage list before I hit character level 3rd? Thank you for any official insight you can provide or direct me to. On the first point, I would say no, since it says apply it if it's there but it doesn't mention applying penalty...However, it's abigious... As for question two, no, you may not cast non-PHB spells before character level 3...
Iswald 02-14-05, 09:13 AM	Warmage Edge allows warmages to add their int bonus (if any) to the damage done by spells. Since you don't have an int bonus with only 8 int, the modifier isn't applied. Warmages are a core class. All abilities of the class, including spellcasting, should be considered as core access for that class. Other classes, however, would still have to wait to use non-core abilities granted to warmages.
JohnduBois 02-14-05, 09:22 AM	While Warmages are a core class and gain access to class abilities (such as Sudden Metamagic feats) as core, this does not override the rule that characters do not gain access to non-PHB spells or feats until 3rd level. The only reason that the Sudden feats are mentioned is that these feats are Limited for other characters. I got a ruling from the Circle on that one.
Iswald 02-14-05, 10:56 AM	Well... that's rather... imbecilic... One of the stated reasons that characters aren't allowed to convert into non-PHB base classes is to see how those base classes perform starting at level one. Since you never see the true behavior of warmages at levels one and two, the experiment is pointless. Also, clerics will be allowed to select spells from domains that come from outside the PHB -- starting at level one. Why make an exception for clerics? In addition, there are numerous non-PHB feats that are allowed at character creation, based on the character's starting region, race, and even class. The circle's decision makes things more complicated than necessary.
King Kashue 02-14-05, 02:35 PM	Well... that's rather... imbecilic... One of the stated reasons that characters aren't allowed to convert into non-PHB base classes is to see how those base classes perform starting at level one. Since you never see the true behavior of warmages at levels one and two, the experiment is pointless. Also, clerics will be allowed to select spells from domains that come from outside the PHB -- starting at level one. Why make an exception for clerics? In addition, there are numerous non-PHB feats that are allowed at character creation, based on the character's starting region, race, and even class. The circle's decision makes things more complicated than necessary. There's reasoning behind both of those though...The Dragon Magazine feats are, as you note, primarily origin feats, not being able to take those at 1st level (the origin of the character) defeats the purpose...As for the Clerics, if they cannot take a domain spell because its outside of the PHB, they don't get any spell in that slot (since it must be filled by a domain spell) and they would be "one spell short"...The Warmage isn't denied any spells per day, just limited in his selection of spells...Not sure I buy that, but the internal logic is there...
Iswald 02-15-05, 09:27 AM	Actually, unless the cleric takes both domains from outside of the PHB, they will still be able to take a domain spell. Even if the don't too bad! Warmages don't get all their spells either, and it's only for two levels that the cleric would have to suffer. By trying to avoid making warmages into an exception (which they wouldn't be), they are making them into an exception. Every allowed base class and every allowed PrC can use all of their abilities starting at the first level that you take that class, except for warmages. More likely, the circle is thinking along the lines of warmages being too powerful. So instead of letting them use all of the spells that they have, the circle has limited their abilities from the start as a more conservative approach than taking away spells later. This might also discourage some people from making warmages so that there are less of them. However, it's not so much that warmages are overpowered as modules, at least those I've played, tend to over-emphasis combat. Since this is where warmages shine brightest, it could become an issue. Really though, this is just a symptom of... I don't want to say bad writing or bad module design... but more that modules should be written to make better use of non-combat situations and abilities related to them. It would be less irksome if the circle were to state the logic behind their decision. Unless of course they just don't want any spellcasters (except for privilidged clerics) to take spells from outside of the PHB before level 3 even if it is a part of the class, which would still be idiotic.
King Kashue 02-15-05, 02:38 PM	Actually, unless the cleric takes both domains from outside of the PHB, they will still be able to take a domain spell. Even if the don't too bad! Warmages don't get all their spells either, and it's only for two levels that the cleric would have to suffer. Not the same...Warmages have a limitation in spell selection, whereas clerics wold have less spells per day, a much more serious limitation...
mage189 02-16-05, 11:11 AM	Blah, what a silly thing to thing. Of course you can cast your spells! As a Warmage you don't have spells you can pick except like 4 or 5 times in your full lifetime career. Your spell list is already picked out for you, so you don't have a choice. You can't select any spellls/feats that arn't core before 3rd level, minus the stuff that they allow like all the 1st level feats. However, since you don't select your spells or your spell list as a Warmage, your perfectly able to cast every 1st level spell on that list without any problems, and you should make an effort to do so. If some how you just had access to the spells on your spell list and had to select them as you leveled like a Wizard/Sorcerer, that's where you'd end up having to wait till 3rd level. For a Warmage, the moment you can cast a 1st level spell, you can cast all the spells on your list for 1st level spells that arn't NPC ONLY/RESTRICTED. Now for why your trying to make a rage mage and only have an 8 for INT, that I can't quite understand. But all in all the Warmage Edge says to "add your INT bonus (if any)" to the damage of the spells. It does NOT say add your INT modifier (if any). This would imply that if you had a penalty, your spells do not suddenly do less damage. Your a charisma based character, the Warmage Edge is just a little bonus thing that they put in there to make it more interesting and even further better then a Sorcerer.
CSHunt68 02-16-05, 11:57 AM	Blah, what a silly thing to thing. Of course you can cast your spells! As a Warmage you don't have spells you can pick except like 4 or 5 times in your full lifetime career. Your spell list is already picked out for you, so you don't have a choice. You can't select any spellls/feats that arn't core before 3rd level, minus the stuff that they allow like all the 1st level feats. However, since you don't select your spells or your spell list as a Warmage, your perfectly able to cast every 1st level spell on that list without any problems, and you should make an effort to do so. If some how you just had access to the spells on your spell list and had to select them as you leveled like a Wizard/Sorcerer, that's where you'd end up having to wait till 3rd level. For a Warmage, the moment you can cast a 1st level spell, you can cast all the spells on your list for 1st level spells that arn't NPC ONLY/RESTRICTED. This is incorrect, and has already been ruled on in LG. Warmages DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO NON-PHB SPELLS UNTIL 3RD LEVEL. Period. Anyone who thinks this is a big drawback to the class ...
mage189 02-17-05, 12:47 AM	Having done more research it seems I'm wrong. Well, wrong in the sense that the spells can't be used until 3rd level. However, I don't beleive that I'm actually wrong in thinking that the rule about 3rd level for noncore book shouldn't apply towards Warmage. It's pretty damn weak. So what else? What if I'm 1st level and happen upon a scroll of Critical Stike? I can't read it because I'm first level? :P
kenobi65 02-17-05, 10:39 AM	It's pretty damn weak. So what else? What if I'm 1st level and happen upon a scroll of Critical Stike? I can't read it because I'm first level? :P If you happen upon a scroll of Critical Strike, that'd mean it's also appearing on the AR for that module. And, access granted via the AR trumps the basic access rules in the LGCR.
mage189 02-17-05, 10:45 AM	I was being sarcastic.... >.>; An what if it isn't on the AR? Hmmmm?
King Kashue 02-17-05, 02:42 PM	I was being sarcastic.... >.>; An what if it isn't on the AR? Hmmmm? Then you can use it in the mod, like anything else in the module (but if it is included in the treasure totals, then you're burning that portion of the treasure), but you cannot have it after the mod, just like you generally can't keep the mugs from the tavern or the pillows off the bed, or any other of a thousand things that are in the module...
Xeion 03-09-05, 07:12 AM	This is incorrect, and has already been ruled on in LG. Warmages DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO NON-PHB SPELLS UNTIL 3RD LEVEL. Period. Anyone who thinks this is a big drawback to the class ... If you say it has been ruled on, were is the ruling?
Simpi 03-09-05, 07:50 AM	If you say it has been ruled on, were is the ruling? LGCS P. 24. General comment about 'core' access, which is limited to 3rd level characters or higher. Several warmage spells (Like Lesser Acid Orb) are there, thus they cannot be taken until 3rd level. S.H, Ahlissa (Naerie) webslave
CSHunt68 03-09-05, 08:11 AM	If you say it has been ruled on, were is the ruling? From the LG Yahoo Group: "As I recall, this was addressed on the Draft discussion list at one point. Basically, it boils down to: Characters can't use spells from non-PHB sources until they are 3rd level, and that includes the warmage. So yeah, you're going to be nerfed for your first two levels in that class, unless there's something new in the LGCS that you missed and I haven't read yet." and "And as an addemdum to this, domains for spells ONLY are an exception to this if not in the PHB, but in a core supplament (LGCS 4.1 P 33)." Got it?
Xeion 03-21-05, 07:39 AM	I was not griping, When it comes to RPGA I want a source I can site as an official scource. A message board or Yahoo group is NOT official. As such I e-mailed a council member and got this:you can only use the spells provided in the PHB for a warmage at 1st and 2nd level. it is not till 3rd level when it opens up the other ones from the complete books (as long as they are core access b/c you can't use them until 3rd) Yes I know it is the same as what was said, but again I wanted an official, site able source.
JohnduBois 03-21-05, 08:25 AM	So... what is it about a direct quotation from the latest LGCS with page number referenced that is not official?
Xeion 03-21-05, 09:13 AM	The text doen't specificlly say either way for the warmage, it says he gets the feats but doesn't mention the spells. they should have added the part about the spells. (There are core things you get from new classes that aren't in the PHB) It doesn't now matter cause I got a ruling from the council.
CSHunt68 03-21-05, 09:57 AM	I was not griping, When it comes to RPGA I want a source I can site as an official scource. A message board or Yahoo group is NOT official. As such I e-mailed a council member and got this: Yes I know it is the same as what was said, but again I wanted an official, site able source. As I (and others) indicated, the ruling was official. Glad you were able to confirm that for yourself ... Oh, BTW, if you don't think message board postings are an official, site able (sic) source, then emails certainly aren't. Again, the LGCS laid it out plain, and the council interpretation was given to you. Quit griping. :)
King Kashue 03-21-05, 04:01 PM	The text doen't specificlly say either way for the warmage, it says he gets the feats but doesn't mention the spells. they should have added the part about the spells. (There are core things you get from new classes that aren't in the PHB) It doesn't now matter cause I got a ruling from the council. None of the feats are available before 3rd level, so your example of the feats being an exception to the LGCS is not valid... And Chris Tulach (who still needs to get me my GenCon UK Castle Greyhawk info ;) ), a member of the circle and one of the chief architects of the new LGCS specifically clarified the rule on this board...
Sieylianna 03-21-05, 04:41 PM	The text doen't specificlly say either way for the warmage, it says he gets the feats but doesn't mention the spells. they should have added the part about the spells. (There are core things you get from new classes that aren't in the PHB) It doesn't now matter cause I got a ruling from the council. And your ruling from the council is worth nothing. It's not an official campaign source and your judge is free to ignore it. An email is no more credible than a Circle posting to a Yahoo group (except LG-NEWS). Ed
Xeion 03-21-05, 09:37 PM	None of the feats are available before 3rd level, so your example of the feats being an exception to the LGCS is not valid... And Chris Tulach (who still needs to get me my GenCon UK Castle Greyhawk info ;) ), a member of the circle and one of the chief architects of the new LGCS specifically clarified the rule on this board... Wrong, the Warmage feats ARE avalible it is noted in the LGCS pg.34 (at the bottom as a foot note.) I didn't see anyone put that they are a memeber of the Circle in any replies. And your ruling from the council is worth nothing. It's not an official campaign source and your judge is free to ignore it. An email is no more credible than a Circle posting to a Yahoo group (except LG-NEWS). As far as the DM's in my area it is as good as offcial. At events like Gen-Con there are official judges, plus I should be level 3 by then anyways.
TimRat 03-21-05, 09:48 PM	Ok most of the answers lie within the replies on this post but i'll make it official since i'm a circle member for LG. You can't cast any of the non-PHB warmage spells till 3rd level. Its not that big of hit to begin with as you still got quite a few good ones. In regards to the feats of the warmage that footnote refers to the sudden line of feats which are limited (usually meaning you need documentation to take) this just means you don't have to have documentation for them when you get them for free as a bonus for taking the class. Tim Sech VTF Circle Member
Xeion 03-21-05, 10:01 PM	Thank you for posting and signing that. You as a Circle Member can probably understand why I wanted an official answer. (or what could be considered an official answer)
King Kashue 03-22-05, 05:06 AM	Wrong, the Warmage feats ARE avalible it is noted in the LGCS pg.34 (at the bottom as a foot note.) I didn't see anyone put that they are a memeber of the Circle in any replies. Read the class description...The feats to which you refer are gained at 7th, 10th, 15th, and levels (Sudden Empower, enlarge, and widen respectively)...Exactly which one of those feats do you gain prior to 3rd level? Maybe if you're going to be arrogant, you might first make sure you're accurate... As for Mr. Tulach's post, it was on the boards, not in this particular thread...Do a search on either the subject of warmages or his posts in particular...Assuming the search function decides to work, his posts on the subject should be quite easy to find...