Unusual Half-Elves [Archive] - Wizards Community

Unusual Half-Elves [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Puggle Halfwine
01-03-06, 10:02 PM Hey guys, I contacted my regional triad regarding being a half-elf of an unusual elf species (aquatic elf or drow spring to mind). He said that such things were not permitted in Living Greyhawk and I'm not about to contest that ruling, but since an LGCS review is coming up soon I thought we might be able to allow half-elves with unusual elf heratage. There's nothing the PHB or Monster Manual which says it can't be done, while the LGCS is kinda fuzzy about the idea.

I can understand if the idea of a half-drow is explicity disallowed due to the implication of a) evil b) copywrite voilation, but I personally think playing a half aquatic elf would be... interesting.

Note, of course, that being a half-elf of any elven heratige (be it wood, high, grey, drow, aquatic, santa) does not affect your racial abilities at all. In actual fact, it could prove to be a detriment (gameplay mechanics wise) as your DM may feel that your +2 bonus to Gather Information (which only works when half-elves are viewed in a positive light) not only doesn't work, but may assign penalties based on your race choice (robbing what is probably the weakest race in 3.5 of one of the few strengths). Personally, I wouldn't feel easy telling deep and dark secrets to a drow or half-fish freak, either.

What do you guys reckon?
paigeoliver
01-04-06, 12:36 AM Why don't you just put down the stats for a NORMAL half elf and just say you are half-aquatic. It gives you what you want without breaking any rules.

Although most people who want to play weird elves tend to want to play them for munchkining reasons, and not roleplay reasons.
Puggle Halfwine
01-04-06, 01:06 AM Why don't you just put down the stats for a NORMAL half elf and just say you are half-aquatic.

That's exactly what I asked my triad member if I could do, he said I couldn't, so I can't. I'm not about to try and weasel my way out of his decision; I'm just hoping that it can be changed with the next LGCS revision.
Madfox11
01-04-06, 04:06 AM Half-elfs from drow and aquatic elves actually do have different gaming mechanics. Drow half-elfs have dark-vision and aquatic half-elves have some abilities involving water breathing and swim movement. Just check Stormwrack for the aquatic half-elves. Don't expect to seem them in LG though.
Puggle Halfwine
01-04-06, 07:02 AM Half-elfs from drow and aquatic elves actually do have different gaming mechanics.

Uhh- where did you get that from?

Monster Manual, page 102, under 'Half-Elf';

"Half-Elves usually inherit a good blend of their parents characteristics, so a half-aquatic elf has greenish skin, a half-drow has dusky skin and light hair, and so on."

No mention of any darkvision or gills.

I'll check Stormwrack, since I don't have it on hand, and I don't know where you'd find that half-drow information but I suspect that those rules are 'optional' for those who wish to run specificly themed campaigns. In any event, I believe that the Monster Manual trumps Stormwrack and that's the definition I'm working from. To prevent munchkinism and like activity, then, the 'half-elf' entry under the LGCS (which trumps all, you recall) could read something like:

"Players may be half-elves. Half-elves are all half human and half elf mixes, except if the character has the Orc Blooded feat, at which point their character is a half orc, half elf. Their non-elf parent may be of any permitted PC human subrace, or an orc (with the Orc Blooded feat). Their elf parent may be of the following subraces; aquatic, drow, grey, high, wood. Note that all half-elves, irrespective of the race or subrace of either parent, all share the same racial gameplay mechanics as specificied in the half-elf race section of the Players Hand Book or Monster Manual (including characters with the Orc Blooded feat, barring the normal effects of that feat). Choosing your 'linage' is for flavour purposes only and unless raised in a module it does not affect your gameplay at all. The only exception to this are half-drow, who must be prepared to accept a certain degree of prejudice regarding the evil nature of their people. Being a half-drow or half-aquatic elf does NOT qualify you to worship any special drow or aquatic elf only dieties in the Living Greyhawk dieties document, despite the half-elves' Elf Blood racial traint."

I think that covers all the bases on that, and even allows people with the Orc Blooded feat to play something different (giving an incentive to take it).

Edit: I looked up Stormwrack and, yes, their version of half-aquatic elves does have different gameplay mechanics. However, I suggest that we simply use the Monster Manual version.

Edit2: Before anyone jumps on the 'But Drow Are Evil' bandwagon, Orcs' alignment is listed as 'Often chaotic evil', yet half-orcs are playable in Living Greyhawk. Often, the greatest good comes from someone who's been offered 'the easy path' and turned away.
Arvagor
01-04-06, 02:28 PM Except the LGCS already defines half-orcs as as an orc/human cross (as does the MM), and I don't see that being changed any time soon. I also seem to recall seeing somewhere official (perhaps the PHB, because it's not in the SRD) that orc/elf hybrids simply are not possible, period.

How do you resolve the racial attributes? Does he have darkvision? Low-light vision? What are this races stat-modifiers? It's a rather large can of worms to make what is essentially a new race in this respect... If you want the Orc Blooded feat, then just make the character from one of the regions that permits it as a regional feat...
Puggle Halfwine
01-04-06, 03:51 PM Except the LGCS already defines half-orcs as as an orc/human cross (as does the MM), and I don't see that being changed any time soon. I also seem to recall seeing somewhere official (perhaps the PHB, because it's not in the SRD) that orc/elf hybrids simply are not possible, period.

Well, there's nothing stopping a 'pure' elf from taking the Orc Blooded feat, so... I'd have to assume that it works.

How do you resolve the racial attributes? Does he have darkvision? Low-light vision? What are this races stat-modifiers?

As I've been trying to stress, these 'unusual' crosses would be treated (gameplay wise) exactly like regular, stock standard unmodified half-elves, including half-elves with the Orc Blooded feat. The different linages would be for roleplaying flavour only.
Arvagor
01-04-06, 04:45 PM As I've been trying to stress, these 'unusual' crosses would be treated (gameplay wise) exactly like regular, stock standard unmodified half-elves, including half-elves with the Orc Blooded feat. The different linages would be for roleplaying flavour only.If it is for flavor only, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with you saying your other half is whatever you want it to be. Unlike half-orcs, there is nothing in the LGCS that defines what the other half of a half-elf is (it is assumed to be human); I only have the SRD available to me at the moment, so I can't say whether the PHB or the MM specifically state what the half in half-elf is either (technically for LG purposes, whatever is defined in the PHB or the LGCS is the only thing that can be used for character creation purposes, barring special situations such as the Blight on Bright Sands arc of modules).

So if you're feeling cocky, make him a half-elf whose elf parent is a drow; if somebody calls you on it, ask them to show you where in the character creation guidelines such a pairing is restricted.

If he's nice, TimRat (who is a Circle member, and frequents these boards) may even deign to offer his opinion on the matter, if you ask nicely...
Puggle Halfwine
01-05-06, 02:43 AM If it is for flavor only, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with you saying your other half is whatever you want it to be. Unlike half-orcs, there is nothing in the LGCS that defines what the other half of a half-elf is (it is assumed to be human);

That was my original plan, but I chickened out at the last second and e-mailed one of my local triad members who said, 'Best Not'. I did point out there was nothing that I felt technically stopped me, but he disagreed, so yeah. I'm not trying to contest that ruling, I'm trying to get the rules changed for the next revision so that I can (without feeling as though I cheated) play my character.

If he's nice, TimRat (who is a Circle member, and frequents these boards) may even deign to offer his opinion on the matter, if you ask nicely...

Pretty pretty pleeeeeeeeeeeeease icecream and cream with strawberries and a cherry on top, glistening with moisture which simply cries out, 'Eat me, you sexy sexy halfling, eat me now!'?

(Once again, I'm not trying to go over my triad's head here, just get things changed in the revision so it can be permitted).
Mortepierre
01-05-06, 05:10 AM That was my original plan, but I chickened out at the last second and e-mailed one of my local triad members who said, 'Best Not'. I did point out there was nothing that I felt technically stopped me, but he disagreed, so yeah. I'm not trying to contest that ruling, I'm trying to get the rules changed for the next revision so that I can (without feeling as though I cheated) play my character.

(Once again, I'm not trying to go over my triad's head here, just get things changed in the revision so it can be permitted).

I feel to see what's the problem. What is the worst that could happen?

You're playing a mod at a convention and, casually, drop into the (rp) chat that your "other half" is aquatic. How could they react negatively to it? Is the DM going to take your charactersheet and rip it? Are the other players going to complain you're "uber" and they should be too? Is a member of your triad going to come to your table and rub a big "no!" into your face?

Come on! If it's rp-only, then you can say whatever you like.
Puggle Halfwine
01-05-06, 10:48 PM Well, perhaps after the LGCS review I can play him legitimately. :P
paigeoliver
01-06-06, 01:11 AM I played my first 3 or 4 games with my halfling claiming she was a "legacy halfling" of the chubbier type that existed pre-D20. Nobody had any problems with it at all, it is just flavor.

I finally dropped that aspect because of the inherent advantages of weighing 30 lbs vs 60 lbs (it is pretty easy for characters with high str to toss a halfling who weighs 50 lbs equipped, not so easy to toss one who weighs 80 or 90 lbs equipped).
Puggle Halfwine
01-06-06, 03:34 AM Yeah, flavour is all cool... I just don't want some DM saying I can't. And technically, simply because the rules don't say you *can't* doesn't mean that you *can*.

Hopefully this can be changed with the LGCS revision. *eyesbat@circle*

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Puggle Halfwine 01-03-06, 10:02 PM	Hey guys, I contacted my regional triad regarding being a half-elf of an unusual elf species (aquatic elf or drow spring to mind). He said that such things were not permitted in Living Greyhawk and I'm not about to contest that ruling, but since an LGCS review is coming up soon I thought we might be able to allow half-elves with unusual elf heratage. There's nothing the PHB or Monster Manual which says it can't be done, while the LGCS is kinda fuzzy about the idea. I can understand if the idea of a half-drow is explicity disallowed due to the implication of a) evil b) copywrite voilation, but I personally think playing a half aquatic elf would be... interesting. Note, of course, that being a half-elf of any elven heratige (be it wood, high, grey, drow, aquatic, santa) does not affect your racial abilities at all. In actual fact, it could prove to be a detriment (gameplay mechanics wise) as your DM may feel that your +2 bonus to Gather Information (which only works when half-elves are viewed in a positive light) not only doesn't work, but may assign penalties based on your race choice (robbing what is probably the weakest race in 3.5 of one of the few strengths). Personally, I wouldn't feel easy telling deep and dark secrets to a drow or half-fish freak, either. What do you guys reckon?
paigeoliver 01-04-06, 12:36 AM	Why don't you just put down the stats for a NORMAL half elf and just say you are half-aquatic. It gives you what you want without breaking any rules. Although most people who want to play weird elves tend to want to play them for munchkining reasons, and not roleplay reasons.
Puggle Halfwine 01-04-06, 01:06 AM	Why don't you just put down the stats for a NORMAL half elf and just say you are half-aquatic. That's exactly what I asked my triad member if I could do, he said I couldn't, so I can't. I'm not about to try and weasel my way out of his decision; I'm just hoping that it can be changed with the next LGCS revision.
Madfox11 01-04-06, 04:06 AM	Half-elfs from drow and aquatic elves actually do have different gaming mechanics. Drow half-elfs have dark-vision and aquatic half-elves have some abilities involving water breathing and swim movement. Just check Stormwrack for the aquatic half-elves. Don't expect to seem them in LG though.
Puggle Halfwine 01-04-06, 07:02 AM	Half-elfs from drow and aquatic elves actually do have different gaming mechanics. Uhh- where did you get that from? Monster Manual, page 102, under 'Half-Elf'; "Half-Elves usually inherit a good blend of their parents characteristics, so a half-aquatic elf has greenish skin, a half-drow has dusky skin and light hair, and so on." No mention of any darkvision or gills. I'll check Stormwrack, since I don't have it on hand, and I don't know where you'd find that half-drow information but I suspect that those rules are 'optional' for those who wish to run specificly themed campaigns. In any event, I believe that the Monster Manual trumps Stormwrack and that's the definition I'm working from. To prevent munchkinism and like activity, then, the 'half-elf' entry under the LGCS (which trumps all, you recall) could read something like: "Players may be half-elves. Half-elves are all half human and half elf mixes, except if the character has the Orc Blooded feat, at which point their character is a half orc, half elf. Their non-elf parent may be of any permitted PC human subrace, or an orc (with the Orc Blooded feat). Their elf parent may be of the following subraces; aquatic, drow, grey, high, wood. Note that all half-elves, irrespective of the race or subrace of either parent, all share the same racial gameplay mechanics as specificied in the half-elf race section of the Players Hand Book or Monster Manual (including characters with the Orc Blooded feat, barring the normal effects of that feat). Choosing your 'linage' is for flavour purposes only and unless raised in a module it does not affect your gameplay at all. The only exception to this are half-drow, who must be prepared to accept a certain degree of prejudice regarding the evil nature of their people. Being a half-drow or half-aquatic elf does NOT qualify you to worship any special drow or aquatic elf only dieties in the Living Greyhawk dieties document, despite the half-elves' Elf Blood racial traint." I think that covers all the bases on that, and even allows people with the Orc Blooded feat to play something different (giving an incentive to take it). Edit: I looked up Stormwrack and, yes, their version of half-aquatic elves does have different gameplay mechanics. However, I suggest that we simply use the Monster Manual version. Edit2: Before anyone jumps on the 'But Drow Are Evil' bandwagon, Orcs' alignment is listed as 'Often chaotic evil', yet half-orcs are playable in Living Greyhawk. Often, the greatest good comes from someone who's been offered 'the easy path' and turned away.
Arvagor 01-04-06, 02:28 PM	Except the LGCS already defines half-orcs as as an orc/human cross (as does the MM), and I don't see that being changed any time soon. I also seem to recall seeing somewhere official (perhaps the PHB, because it's not in the SRD) that orc/elf hybrids simply are not possible, period. How do you resolve the racial attributes? Does he have darkvision? Low-light vision? What are this races stat-modifiers? It's a rather large can of worms to make what is essentially a new race in this respect... If you want the Orc Blooded feat, then just make the character from one of the regions that permits it as a regional feat...
Puggle Halfwine 01-04-06, 03:51 PM	Except the LGCS already defines half-orcs as as an orc/human cross (as does the MM), and I don't see that being changed any time soon. I also seem to recall seeing somewhere official (perhaps the PHB, because it's not in the SRD) that orc/elf hybrids simply are not possible, period. Well, there's nothing stopping a 'pure' elf from taking the Orc Blooded feat, so... I'd have to assume that it works. How do you resolve the racial attributes? Does he have darkvision? Low-light vision? What are this races stat-modifiers? As I've been trying to stress, these 'unusual' crosses would be treated (gameplay wise) exactly like regular, stock standard unmodified half-elves, including half-elves with the Orc Blooded feat. The different linages would be for roleplaying flavour only.
Arvagor 01-04-06, 04:45 PM	As I've been trying to stress, these 'unusual' crosses would be treated (gameplay wise) exactly like regular, stock standard unmodified half-elves, including half-elves with the Orc Blooded feat. The different linages would be for roleplaying flavour only.If it is for flavor only, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with you saying your other half is whatever you want it to be. Unlike half-orcs, there is nothing in the LGCS that defines what the other half of a half-elf is (it is assumed to be human); I only have the SRD available to me at the moment, so I can't say whether the PHB or the MM specifically state what the half in half-elf is either (technically for LG purposes, whatever is defined in the PHB or the LGCS is the only thing that can be used for character creation purposes, barring special situations such as the Blight on Bright Sands arc of modules). So if you're feeling cocky, make him a half-elf whose elf parent is a drow; if somebody calls you on it, ask them to show you where in the character creation guidelines such a pairing is restricted. If he's nice, TimRat (who is a Circle member, and frequents these boards) may even deign to offer his opinion on the matter, if you ask nicely...
Puggle Halfwine 01-05-06, 02:43 AM	If it is for flavor only, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with you saying your other half is whatever you want it to be. Unlike half-orcs, there is nothing in the LGCS that defines what the other half of a half-elf is (it is assumed to be human); That was my original plan, but I chickened out at the last second and e-mailed one of my local triad members who said, 'Best Not'. I did point out there was nothing that I felt technically stopped me, but he disagreed, so yeah. I'm not trying to contest that ruling, I'm trying to get the rules changed for the next revision so that I can (without feeling as though I cheated) play my character. If he's nice, TimRat (who is a Circle member, and frequents these boards) may even deign to offer his opinion on the matter, if you ask nicely... Pretty pretty pleeeeeeeeeeeeease icecream and cream with strawberries and a cherry on top, glistening with moisture which simply cries out, 'Eat me, you sexy sexy halfling, eat me now!'? (Once again, I'm not trying to go over my triad's head here, just get things changed in the revision so it can be permitted).
Mortepierre 01-05-06, 05:10 AM	That was my original plan, but I chickened out at the last second and e-mailed one of my local triad members who said, 'Best Not'. I did point out there was nothing that I felt technically stopped me, but he disagreed, so yeah. I'm not trying to contest that ruling, I'm trying to get the rules changed for the next revision so that I can (without feeling as though I cheated) play my character. (Once again, I'm not trying to go over my triad's head here, just get things changed in the revision so it can be permitted). I feel to see what's the problem. What is the worst that could happen? You're playing a mod at a convention and, casually, drop into the (rp) chat that your "other half" is aquatic. How could they react negatively to it? Is the DM going to take your charactersheet and rip it? Are the other players going to complain you're "uber" and they should be too? Is a member of your triad going to come to your table and rub a big "no!" into your face? Come on! If it's rp-only, then you can say whatever you like.
Puggle Halfwine 01-05-06, 10:48 PM	Well, perhaps after the LGCS review I can play him legitimately. :P
paigeoliver 01-06-06, 01:11 AM	I played my first 3 or 4 games with my halfling claiming she was a "legacy halfling" of the chubbier type that existed pre-D20. Nobody had any problems with it at all, it is just flavor. I finally dropped that aspect because of the inherent advantages of weighing 30 lbs vs 60 lbs (it is pretty easy for characters with high str to toss a halfling who weighs 50 lbs equipped, not so easy to toss one who weighs 80 or 90 lbs equipped).
Puggle Halfwine 01-06-06, 03:34 AM	Yeah, flavour is all cool... I just don't want some DM saying I can't. And technically, simply because the rules don't say you can't doesn't mean that you can. Hopefully this can be changed with the LGCS revision. eyesbat@circle