Use of Materials [Archive] - Wizards Community

Use of Materials [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GreatSiron
07-25-06, 12:31 AM I'd been going over my AR's recently and noticed I have access to several materials that I can't think of much use for. I know what Mithral and Adamatine are good for, armor and weapons respectively, but what good is Starmetal, other that you pay extra for an ablitiy that doesn't see all that much use. Thinian is even more expensive and useless, and what is coldfire?

I have also gained access to weird armor upgrades like Hellforged and weapon upgrades like ghost strike. Any idea what these do?
Oogar
07-25-06, 12:49 AM Well, for 2,000 over adamantite. Starmetal is quite nice against outsiders... So that would all depend on where you 'live' and the kind of monsters you face, I suppose.
JJeff
07-25-06, 02:53 AM I'd been going over my AR's recently and noticed I have access to several materials that I can't think of much use for. I know what Mithral and Adamatine are good for, armor and weapons respectively, but what good is Starmetal, other that you pay extra for an ablitiy that doesn't see all that much use. Thinian is even more expensive and useless, and what is coldfire?

I have also gained access to weird armor upgrades like Hellforged and weapon upgrades like ghost strike. Any idea what these do?

Starmeteal, as stated above by the brilliant Oogar, is good vs outsiders. If you think you'll be facing much outsiders, then it will be useful.

Thinian.... Well, it think it would be good against err... ressurectting villians?

Coldfire is used for Frostburn-sourced spells

Hellforged is +1000gp cost for armour, hardness is increased by 1, hit points ofthe armour is increased by 5, Max dex is reduced by 1 to minimum 0, Armour check penalty is improved by 1 (min -1), spell chance increases by 5% (minimum 5%), You get +1 AC whenever you are adjacent to an ally, you get a 10% discount when adding the Fortification ability (light, mod or heavy) or when making the armour into an Armour of Command

Ghost Strike allows to to damage an incorporal creature as though you have the Ghost Touch ability and also allows you to do sneak attack damage and Critical hits on an incorporal Undead creature as if it was not undead
Oogar
07-25-06, 10:29 AM Thinian.... Well, it think it would be good against err... ressurectting villians?

You know... This might be interesting as a Spiked Gauntlet... It would lower the cost of your being raised (if I am remembering correctly), which might do good things for your Money-to-Level ratio in the long run.
ShinAkuma2
07-25-06, 12:53 PM You know... This might be interesting as a Spiked Gauntlet... It would lower the cost of your being raised (if I am remembering correctly), which might do good things for your Money-to-Level ratio in the long run.

This is accurate...If you die when weilding a Thinuan weapon, your soul gets sucked into it...That's quite an idea you've had there.
Oogar
07-25-06, 03:20 PM This is accurate...If you die when weilding a Thinuan weapon, your soul gets sucked into it...That's quite an idea you've had there.

Well, I looked up the cost. At 10,000gp for a light weapon, you need to expect to die several times (4 raise deads or 2 resurections) to break even on the material component costs. I expect it will be an odd character that ever ends up actually trying this tactic, and if a Triad hears about it, that person may end up retired to the higher level game anyhow.
Samwise
07-25-06, 06:49 PM I wouldn't suspect it automatically. It is really just the base concept. For this thing (a thinaun weapon, even spiked gauntlets) to be worthwhile, you have to die at least twice, and probably four times. Somehow, I just don't see that as ever being worthwhile. I'd rather spend the same amount making sure I don't die in the first place.
JJeff
07-25-06, 08:04 PM Maybe this is just me, but how does this work?

Your soul gets sucked into the gaunlet, yes. But how does this affect being raised or ressurected? Casting Raise or Res is not cheaper or easier just because you have your soul in an object...
Arvagor
07-25-06, 08:17 PM Your soul gets sucked into the gaunlet, yes. But how does this affect being raised or ressurected? Casting Raise or Res is not cheaper or easier just because you have your soul in an object...Yes, in fact, it is cheaper. It is a specific property of thinaun (Complete Warrior. page 136): "Because the soul is nearby, fewer material components are required for such spells: reincarnation, raise dead, resurrection, and true resurrection require half as much of the relevant material component (unguents or diamonds) to cast if the soul is within a thinaun weapon."
JJeff
07-25-06, 08:50 PM Missed that line... My fault...

but It's really still not worth it.
Oogar
07-25-06, 09:23 PM Yeah, it really takes True Res being thrown around for it to become greatly cost effective. But at lower levels in LG, you could make an argument that if you get raised 3 times in the level 12 - 13 level range, you are seriously increasing your characters wealth compared to other individuals in your level range. Adding in the Thinuan Spiked Gauntlet just increases the money advantage if you die even more frequently.

Economics seem to get silly at a certain point in any D&D game, even LG.
ithardin
07-25-06, 11:21 PM Starmetal also can allow you to reach the prerequisites for the prestige class "Green Star Adept." (pg. 41 of Complete Arcane) Starmetal is also required to advance levels in that PrC. You do pay an extra 2K for a weapon crafted by it and in return you get "adamantine" that also does an extra d6 to extraplanar creatures while they are on the prime material (pg. 141 of Complete Arcane).

Thinaun is a material that is mostly there for flavor. Yes there is the 50% off "insurance policy" and I wouldn't begrudge anyone doing this. People used to hassle my rogue for taking toughness, but it has saved him from going negative hit points on three seperate occasions.

Ian Thomas Hardin
Dyvers Triad
Japangirl
07-26-06, 01:27 AM I'm thinking thinaun dagger on a character designed to kill NPCs permanently. If you suck the soul into the dagger then hand it to a deity to take care of, that's one NPC who is dead permanently. Hopefully. If his/her stupid Craft Contingency spells don't take that into account. That feat is absolutely retarded, because epic NPCs can spend about 1 million XP to make themselves basically unkillable and there's nothing we can do about it.
kenobi65
07-26-06, 10:41 AM I'm thinking thinaun dagger on a character designed to kill NPCs permanently. If you suck the soul into the dagger then hand it to a deity to take care of, that's one NPC who is dead permanently. Hopefully. If his/her stupid Craft Contingency spells don't take that into account. That feat is absolutely retarded, because epic NPCs can spend about 1 million XP to make themselves basically unkillable and there's nothing we can do about it.

I have to ask...are you frequently running into Epic NPCs in LG?
Arvagor
07-26-06, 11:42 AM And I have to ask, are you frequently running into deities in your region to hand said items over to? Granted, I've not run into any in my ~2 years of LG now (representatives? yes; deities or aspects thereof? no), but my bet is on the fact that, when I do, it's not going to be one who wants to be all buddy-buddy... :coolcthul
Japangirl
07-26-06, 04:07 PM Greater Bonehearts. We aren't positive, but I'm pretty sure at least a few of them are epic level. I've personally met Xavendra (human necromancer), Veth (vampire), Cranzer (wizard, likely a lich as well), Jumper (I think he's got rogue and assassin levels, couldn't swear to it), and Keak (wizard/mindbender, he crafts stuff for all the other Greater Bonehearts).

And there's been a few mods where you go talk to a deity on its home plane (Wee Jas was in a mod for sure). You get a cleric and wizard together, plane shift to the cleric's deity's home plane, greater teleport to the deity's home, hand over the weapon + soul, and plane shift home again. Lets see Iuz get it back now!

Bring on the Wanted points!
Arvagor
07-26-06, 07:28 PM And there's been a few mods where you go talk to a deity on its home plane (Wee Jas was in a mod for sure). You get a cleric and wizard together, plane shift to the cleric's deity's home plane, greater teleport to the deity's home, hand over the weapon + soul, and plane shift home again. Lets see Iuz get it back now!Having the ability to do so in the context of a mod is one thing. But do you have the planar forks for the exact home planes of each of the deities you want to visit? I've been playing LG for 2 years, and have never seen access to planar forks, ever. Do you have a "reliable description of the place to which you are teleporting"? Do you think your deity even cares about one piddling NPC you think is important? Especially after you invaded his home without warning? Good luck on that; I hear trying to get resurrected after destruction by a deity can be very difficult. ;)
Japangirl
07-27-06, 02:57 AM My rogue has 5 planar tuning forks, actually. Earth, Fire, Water, Abyss, Prime Materia. Possibly 6, I didn't check the ARs. And if a cleric who is 15th level says please hold this, the deity obviously likes you and won't kill you out of hand. Chain of eyes or scrying tells you what the area looks like for the teleport.

And I'd only ever do it in an interactive, when what happens is permanent. The deity does care about the piddling NPC if they are a greater servant of a chaotic evil deity who is an enemy of said deity.
blood_kite
07-27-06, 01:27 PM I'm thinking thinaun dagger on a character designed to kill NPCs permanently. If you suck the soul into the dagger then hand it to a deity to take care of, that's one NPC who is dead permanently. Hopefully.

You know, I've played some modules where I thought there were some NPC's planning to do this to other NPC's. Kill Iuz with thinaun dagger, give the to some Angels at Mount Celestia and have them take it to a nice, safe place near the top of the mountain.
ithardin
07-27-06, 08:09 PM *remembers his wonderul stop in the Bandit Kingdoms...and the trip to the abyss that quickly ensued to actually FREE a demon*

My idea with thinaun was to have an NPC assasin who used Thinaun weapons and then would ransom the soul trapped in the weapon to the family of his target...talk about double-dipping! and of course now that I have posted it, all the Dyversians will be keeping their eyes peeled.

Ian
The free and independent City of Dyvers
Japangirl
07-28-06, 02:02 AM Haha I remember that module. But it was working to free someone who was opposed to Iuz, so it was all good. Of course, my chaotic neutral rogue had no issues freeing a demon.
clannagh
08-07-06, 02:38 AM There will also be the odd occasion where normal resurrection is not possible (body complete eaten by a carnivorous plant comes to mind) but a soul carrying thinaun weapon would survive and allow resurrection.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GreatSiron 07-25-06, 12:31 AM	I'd been going over my AR's recently and noticed I have access to several materials that I can't think of much use for. I know what Mithral and Adamatine are good for, armor and weapons respectively, but what good is Starmetal, other that you pay extra for an ablitiy that doesn't see all that much use. Thinian is even more expensive and useless, and what is coldfire? I have also gained access to weird armor upgrades like Hellforged and weapon upgrades like ghost strike. Any idea what these do?
Oogar 07-25-06, 12:49 AM	Well, for 2,000 over adamantite. Starmetal is quite nice against outsiders... So that would all depend on where you 'live' and the kind of monsters you face, I suppose.
JJeff 07-25-06, 02:53 AM	I'd been going over my AR's recently and noticed I have access to several materials that I can't think of much use for. I know what Mithral and Adamatine are good for, armor and weapons respectively, but what good is Starmetal, other that you pay extra for an ablitiy that doesn't see all that much use. Thinian is even more expensive and useless, and what is coldfire? I have also gained access to weird armor upgrades like Hellforged and weapon upgrades like ghost strike. Any idea what these do? Starmeteal, as stated above by the brilliant Oogar, is good vs outsiders. If you think you'll be facing much outsiders, then it will be useful. Thinian.... Well, it think it would be good against err... ressurectting villians? Coldfire is used for Frostburn-sourced spells Hellforged is +1000gp cost for armour, hardness is increased by 1, hit points ofthe armour is increased by 5, Max dex is reduced by 1 to minimum 0, Armour check penalty is improved by 1 (min -1), spell chance increases by 5% (minimum 5%), You get +1 AC whenever you are adjacent to an ally, you get a 10% discount when adding the Fortification ability (light, mod or heavy) or when making the armour into an Armour of Command Ghost Strike allows to to damage an incorporal creature as though you have the Ghost Touch ability and also allows you to do sneak attack damage and Critical hits on an incorporal Undead creature as if it was not undead
Oogar 07-25-06, 10:29 AM	Thinian.... Well, it think it would be good against err... ressurectting villians? You know... This might be interesting as a Spiked Gauntlet... It would lower the cost of your being raised (if I am remembering correctly), which might do good things for your Money-to-Level ratio in the long run.
ShinAkuma2 07-25-06, 12:53 PM	You know... This might be interesting as a Spiked Gauntlet... It would lower the cost of your being raised (if I am remembering correctly), which might do good things for your Money-to-Level ratio in the long run. This is accurate...If you die when weilding a Thinuan weapon, your soul gets sucked into it...That's quite an idea you've had there.
Oogar 07-25-06, 03:20 PM	This is accurate...If you die when weilding a Thinuan weapon, your soul gets sucked into it...That's quite an idea you've had there. Well, I looked up the cost. At 10,000gp for a light weapon, you need to expect to die several times (4 raise deads or 2 resurections) to break even on the material component costs. I expect it will be an odd character that ever ends up actually trying this tactic, and if a Triad hears about it, that person may end up retired to the higher level game anyhow.
Samwise 07-25-06, 06:49 PM	I wouldn't suspect it automatically. It is really just the base concept. For this thing (a thinaun weapon, even spiked gauntlets) to be worthwhile, you have to die at least twice, and probably four times. Somehow, I just don't see that as ever being worthwhile. I'd rather spend the same amount making sure I don't die in the first place.
JJeff 07-25-06, 08:04 PM	Maybe this is just me, but how does this work? Your soul gets sucked into the gaunlet, yes. But how does this affect being raised or ressurected? Casting Raise or Res is not cheaper or easier just because you have your soul in an object...
Arvagor 07-25-06, 08:17 PM	Your soul gets sucked into the gaunlet, yes. But how does this affect being raised or ressurected? Casting Raise or Res is not cheaper or easier just because you have your soul in an object...Yes, in fact, it is cheaper. It is a specific property of thinaun (Complete Warrior. page 136): "Because the soul is nearby, fewer material components are required for such spells: reincarnation, raise dead, resurrection, and true resurrection require half as much of the relevant material component (unguents or diamonds) to cast if the soul is within a thinaun weapon."
JJeff 07-25-06, 08:50 PM	Missed that line... My fault... but It's really still not worth it.
Oogar 07-25-06, 09:23 PM	Yeah, it really takes True Res being thrown around for it to become greatly cost effective. But at lower levels in LG, you could make an argument that if you get raised 3 times in the level 12 - 13 level range, you are seriously increasing your characters wealth compared to other individuals in your level range. Adding in the Thinuan Spiked Gauntlet just increases the money advantage if you die even more frequently. Economics seem to get silly at a certain point in any D&D game, even LG.
ithardin 07-25-06, 11:21 PM	Starmetal also can allow you to reach the prerequisites for the prestige class "Green Star Adept." (pg. 41 of Complete Arcane) Starmetal is also required to advance levels in that PrC. You do pay an extra 2K for a weapon crafted by it and in return you get "adamantine" that also does an extra d6 to extraplanar creatures while they are on the prime material (pg. 141 of Complete Arcane). Thinaun is a material that is mostly there for flavor. Yes there is the 50% off "insurance policy" and I wouldn't begrudge anyone doing this. People used to hassle my rogue for taking toughness, but it has saved him from going negative hit points on three seperate occasions. Ian Thomas Hardin Dyvers Triad
Japangirl 07-26-06, 01:27 AM	I'm thinking thinaun dagger on a character designed to kill NPCs permanently. If you suck the soul into the dagger then hand it to a deity to take care of, that's one NPC who is dead permanently. Hopefully. If his/her stupid Craft Contingency spells don't take that into account. That feat is absolutely retarded, because epic NPCs can spend about 1 million XP to make themselves basically unkillable and there's nothing we can do about it.
kenobi65 07-26-06, 10:41 AM	I'm thinking thinaun dagger on a character designed to kill NPCs permanently. If you suck the soul into the dagger then hand it to a deity to take care of, that's one NPC who is dead permanently. Hopefully. If his/her stupid Craft Contingency spells don't take that into account. That feat is absolutely retarded, because epic NPCs can spend about 1 million XP to make themselves basically unkillable and there's nothing we can do about it. I have to ask...are you frequently running into Epic NPCs in LG?
Arvagor 07-26-06, 11:42 AM	And I have to ask, are you frequently running into deities in your region to hand said items over to? Granted, I've not run into any in my ~2 years of LG now (representatives? yes; deities or aspects thereof? no), but my bet is on the fact that, when I do, it's not going to be one who wants to be all buddy-buddy... :coolcthul
Japangirl 07-26-06, 04:07 PM	Greater Bonehearts. We aren't positive, but I'm pretty sure at least a few of them are epic level. I've personally met Xavendra (human necromancer), Veth (vampire), Cranzer (wizard, likely a lich as well), Jumper (I think he's got rogue and assassin levels, couldn't swear to it), and Keak (wizard/mindbender, he crafts stuff for all the other Greater Bonehearts). And there's been a few mods where you go talk to a deity on its home plane (Wee Jas was in a mod for sure). You get a cleric and wizard together, plane shift to the cleric's deity's home plane, greater teleport to the deity's home, hand over the weapon + soul, and plane shift home again. Lets see Iuz get it back now! Bring on the Wanted points!
Arvagor 07-26-06, 07:28 PM	And there's been a few mods where you go talk to a deity on its home plane (Wee Jas was in a mod for sure). You get a cleric and wizard together, plane shift to the cleric's deity's home plane, greater teleport to the deity's home, hand over the weapon + soul, and plane shift home again. Lets see Iuz get it back now!Having the ability to do so in the context of a mod is one thing. But do you have the planar forks for the exact home planes of each of the deities you want to visit? I've been playing LG for 2 years, and have never seen access to planar forks, ever. Do you have a "reliable description of the place to which you are teleporting"? Do you think your deity even cares about one piddling NPC you think is important? Especially after you invaded his home without warning? Good luck on that; I hear trying to get resurrected after destruction by a deity can be very difficult. ;)
Japangirl 07-27-06, 02:57 AM	My rogue has 5 planar tuning forks, actually. Earth, Fire, Water, Abyss, Prime Materia. Possibly 6, I didn't check the ARs. And if a cleric who is 15th level says please hold this, the deity obviously likes you and won't kill you out of hand. Chain of eyes or scrying tells you what the area looks like for the teleport. And I'd only ever do it in an interactive, when what happens is permanent. The deity does care about the piddling NPC if they are a greater servant of a chaotic evil deity who is an enemy of said deity.
blood_kite 07-27-06, 01:27 PM	I'm thinking thinaun dagger on a character designed to kill NPCs permanently. If you suck the soul into the dagger then hand it to a deity to take care of, that's one NPC who is dead permanently. Hopefully. You know, I've played some modules where I thought there were some NPC's planning to do this to other NPC's. Kill Iuz with thinaun dagger, give the to some Angels at Mount Celestia and have them take it to a nice, safe place near the top of the mountain.
ithardin 07-27-06, 08:09 PM	remembers his wonderul stop in the Bandit Kingdoms...and the trip to the abyss that quickly ensued to actually FREE a demon My idea with thinaun was to have an NPC assasin who used Thinaun weapons and then would ransom the soul trapped in the weapon to the family of his target...talk about double-dipping! and of course now that I have posted it, all the Dyversians will be keeping their eyes peeled. Ian The free and independent City of Dyvers
Japangirl 07-28-06, 02:02 AM	Haha I remember that module. But it was working to free someone who was opposed to Iuz, so it was all good. Of course, my chaotic neutral rogue had no issues freeing a demon.
clannagh 08-07-06, 02:38 AM	There will also be the odd occasion where normal resurrection is not possible (body complete eaten by a carnivorous plant comes to mind) but a soul carrying thinaun weapon would survive and allow resurrection.