Warmage/Rogue build? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTimePost
Silvertears

06-30-06, 09:17 PM		Hey all.

Gonna be starting a new character shortly, and was not sure where to go for feats.

What I am trying to do is a blaster mage....so warmage. I want to add a couple of Rogue levels just for flavor (not trying to min/max here).

What I'm not sure of is a good feat progression. I'm thinking practiced spellcaster at one point to make up for the 3 or so rogue levels I plan to take, but other than that....????

Any suggestions?

What about starting ability score suggestions? I'm either going to be a wood elf (flavor again) or grey elf.

Class wise my plan is this:

1. Rogue (skills, skills, skills!)
2. Warmage
3. Warmage
4. Rogue
5. Warmage
6. Rogue
7. Warmage
8+. ?? (but something that gives +1 caster level)

Would like to go arcane trickster, but that requires mage hand which the warmage doesn't get. Anyone know a way to get that with a warmage build?

Thanks!

Jeff.
DuctShuiTengu

07-01-06, 01:29 AM		I believe that the feat Spell Hand would let you qualify for Arcane Trickster.

It looks interesting, though probably not the most powerful build.
JamesMaissen

07-01-06, 03:19 AM		What I am trying to do is a blaster mage....so warmage. I want to add a couple of Rogue levels just for flavor (not trying to min/max here).

Any suggestions?

Would like to go arcane trickster, but that requires mage hand which the warmage doesn't get. Anyone know a way to get that with a warmage build?

Thanks!

Jeff.

First of all, don't do this.

Secondly, decide what you want to make in terms of what you will be doing.

A warmage is a horrible choice for Arcane Trickster. Most of the usefulness of trickster is based around getting sneak attacks with cast spells. While the warmage does get all the orb spells (both lesser and normal) they have almost no way to blind targets or become invisible to them. Thus you will not be sneak attacking with your warmage with any degree of frequency.

A wizard makes a great arcane trickster on the other hand. The INT focus allows the trickster to recover some degree of skills. Even with a starting 18+ INT however this is an uphill battle where sacrifices have to be made (see below).

If you want an Arcane Trickster blasting arcane caster, consider the following build:

1st Rogue 1 Feat: TWF
2nd Wiz1 Scribe Scroll(w)
3rd Wiz2 Practiced Caster: Wizard
4th Wiz3
5th Wiz4
6th Wiz5 Craft Wand, Double Wand Wielder
7th Rog2 (Evasion)
8th Rog3
9th ATr1 Craft Wonderous Items if desired (Quick Draw another option)

with the rest of the levels in AT.

Race: Grey Elf
Str 6
Int 20
Wis 8
Dex 16
Con 12
Chr 8

Or alternatively you could lower the INT to pay for other stats.

Skills (bumping INT at 4th & 8th):
1st
Search (4), Disable Dev(4), Open Lock (4), Escape A(4), Decipher Sc (4), Spot (4), Listen (4), Hide (4), Move Sil (4), Tumble (4), UMD (4), Slight of Hand (4)

2nd-6th
Spellcraft (9), Know Arcana(5), Concentration (9), Knowledges (all others with just 1 local) (1), Decipher Sc(+3=7)

7th&8th
Escape A(+3=7), Search (+7=11), Disable Dev (+7=11), UMD (+7=11), Tumble (+1=5), 2 ranks left over

9th+ 10 skill points/level
Search, Disable Dev, UMD (x2), 6 skill points 'catchup' towards any 3 of Escape Artist, Spot, MS, Hide and Concentration.

Now you may decide to specialize as a wizard, but I wouldn't. Possibly you could get by without one of them, but you would be better off pearling spells back and using wands for damage with all the schools available than getting an extra slot each level.

-James
Lupo

07-01-06, 08:42 AM		First of all, don't do this.

Secondly, decide what you want to make in terms of what you will be doing.

A warmage is a horrible choice for Arcane Trickster. Most of the usefulness of trickster is based around getting sneak attacks with cast spells. While the warmage does get all the orb spells (both lesser and normal) they have almost no way to blind targets or become invisible to them. Thus you will not be sneak attacking with your warmage with any degree of frequency.

A wizard makes a great arcane trickster on the other hand. The INT focus allows the trickster to recover some degree of skills. Even with a starting 18+ INT however this is an uphill battle where sacrifices have to be made (see below).

If you want an Arcane Trickster blasting arcane caster, consider the following build:

1st Rogue 1 Feat: TWF
2nd Wiz1 Scribe Scroll(w)
3rd Wiz2 Practiced Caster: Wizard
4th Wiz3
5th Wiz4
6th Wiz5 Craft Wand, Double Wand Wielder
7th Rog2 (Evasion)
8th Rog3
9th ATr1 Craft Wonderous Items if desired (Quick Draw another option)

with the rest of the levels in AT.

Race: Grey Elf
Str 6
Int 20
Wis 8
Dex 16
Con 12
Chr 8

Or alternatively you could lower the INT to pay for other stats.

Skills (bumping INT at 4th & 8th):
1st
Search (4), Disable Dev(4), Open Lock (4), Escape A(4), Decipher Sc (4), Spot (4), Listen (4), Hide (4), Move Sil (4), Tumble (4), UMD (4), Slight of Hand (4)

2nd-6th
Spellcraft (9), Know Arcana(5), Concentration (9), Knowledges (all others with just 1 local) (1), Decipher Sc(+3=7)

7th&8th
Escape A(+3=7), Search (+7=11), Disable Dev (+7=11), UMD (+7=11), Tumble (+1=5), 2 ranks left over

9th+ 10 skill points/level
Search, Disable Dev, UMD (x2), 6 skill points 'catchup' towards any 3 of Escape Artist, Spot, MS, Hide and Concentration.

Now you may decide to specialize as a wizard, but I wouldn't. Possibly you could get by without one of them, but you would be better off pearling spells back and using wands for damage with all the schools available than getting an extra slot each level.

-James

int is not such an major point. you will burn through wands of first level spells like hell: magic missile, lesser orbs, enfeeblement, grease, the dc for the save is always 11 (10 + spell level + minimum int bonus for casting the spell).

so apart from role playing reasons, halflings and gnomes make good arcane tricksters, and have a better con. even a human arcane trickster is possible, having a free feat for getting quick draw AND craft wonderous items. or getting a metamagic feat, like "sculpt spell", for getting as many blinded targets for your sneak attacks as possible with one "glitterdust".

ciao

martin m.
ShinAkuma2

07-01-06, 08:55 AM		int is not such an major point. you will burn through wands of first level spells like hell: magic missile, lesser orbs, enfeeblement, grease, the dc for the save is always 11 (10 + spell level + minimum int bonus for casting the spell).

The save DC is not relevant for Lesser Orbs and Magic Missile, or any other spell a Rogue/Mage might be concerned with casting.
Iswald

07-01-06, 10:26 AM		Do you really want to go towards arcane trickster? You could also do something like swashbuckler 3/rogue 2/warmage 1 (w/ practiced caster)/daggerspell mage 9. It's debatable whether warmage is the best choice for this route. Also, daggerspell mage is a limited PrC.
Paul H

07-02-06, 06:58 PM		Hi

To get the most out of Warmage you'll need 4 levels of Warmage by 6th level, for Extra Edge feat. (More damage from spells).

If you want flavour, then what about Cleric Boccob/Warmage? Force Domains allows reroll to damage, taking best roll, Magic Domain allows use of Wizards items'. Trickery has Invisibility as 2nd spell.

Best is Bard/Warmage, good for skill points & spell access.

Gnome:
St 8 De 16 Co 10 In 16 Wi 8 Ch 14 (All Level Bumps to Charisma)

1) Bard: Spell Focus - Evocation
2) Warmage (Armoured Mage - Lt Armour & Lt Shield)
3) Warmage: Arcane Defense - Evocation
4) Warmage (Adv Learning Tenser's Disk)
5) Warmage
6) Warmage: Extra Edge
7) Warmage (Adv Learning Leomund's Tiny Hut)
8) Warmage (Sudden Empower Feat)
9) Warmage: (Armoured Mage - Medium Armour)
10) Warmage

Another Flavour - Grey Elf Warmage/Argent Savant

Grey Elf:
Str 8 Dex 16 Con 10 Int 18 Wis 8 Cha 14 (All lvl bumps to Charisma)

1) Warmage (Armoured Mage) Spell Focus - Evocation
2) Warmage
3) Warmage (Adv Learning Tensers Floating Disk) Arcane Defense - Evocation
4) Warmage
5) Warmage
6) Warmage (Adv Learning - Leomund's Hut) Extra Edge
7) Warmage (Sudden Empower)
8) Warmage (Armoured Mage - Medium)
9) Warmage Choose any feat
10) Warmage (Sudden Enlarge)
11) Warmage (Adv Learning - Wall of Force)
12 Argent Savant (Force Specialisation - +2 BAB Force Spells, +1 Dam Die Force Spells).

The idea of a Blaster-Caster opening up with a Utility spell (Leomund's Hut) stops charges, targeted spells/attacks against you. There's also plenty uses for Tenser's Disk.
At 10th your spells do +8 damage, and you've got +3 save vs Evocation.
Even at 6th lvl you're doing +7 damage to spells.

Cheers
Paul H
ornsjach

07-21-06, 04:28 PM		I have an idea take the Arcane disciple feat(trickery) for Invisibility and the feat Spell Hand
also look at extra edge and battle caster
JamesMaissen

07-22-06, 02:52 AM		int is not such an major point. you will burn through wands of first level spells like hell: magic missile, lesser orbs, enfeeblement, grease, the dc for the save is always 11 (10 + spell level + minimum int bonus for casting the spell).

The INT is not only for spell DCs.. here it's for skills primarily. You are very lacking in rogue-like skills with only 4+INT per level, not to mention if you are spending points for ranks in wizard skills on top of that.

Likewise getting search & disable device through the roof is a nice plus.

Getting the DC for glitterdust is a boon as well, especially when you are down 2 caster levels at 7th without much to show for it otherwise.

For wands you won't really be looking to have wands of spells with save DCs save those for memorized spells. I mean even Enfeeblement's something I would memorize if desired.. use wands for damage and cheap true strikes to make them count.

-James
Paul H

07-22-06, 09:04 AM		Hi

Grey Elf Warmage with levels of Rogue? No problem.

You can either go Rogue then Warmage, taking the XP hit later, or got Daggerspell Mage. But I think you'll need access. (Believe Daggerspell Mage is Limited).

You only lose one caster level, (first level), and adds all those 'roguey' bonuses.

Personally, I prefer pure Warmage - so I get all those class abilities ('sudden' feats) etc. Don't forget those Advanced Learning spells!

Cheers
Paul H
lostpike

07-22-06, 09:22 AM		IMO i still think the old wizard/rogue/trickster holds out slightly better as its more versatile.