Post/Author/DateTime	Post
redgamer 02-16-06, 01:56 AM	Recently someone was complaining that warmages didn't get access to enough evocations for advanced learning, thats WotC hasn't published many. I think the post was in the LG rules forum but I felt this post fit better here. I am putting off work so I had MS Word count the number of spells from Spell Compendium and PHB Abjuration-144 Conjuration-264 Divination-110 Enchantment-111 Evocation-227 Illusion-93 Necromancy-157 Transmutation-439 Universal-9 Transmuters unite. We will remake the world at our whim.
JamesMaissen 02-16-06, 06:50 AM	Recently someone was complaining that warmages didn't get access to enough evocations for advanced learning, thats WotC hasn't published many. I think the post was in the LG rules forum but I felt this post fit better here. I am putting off work so I had MS Word count the number of spells from Spell Compendium and PHB Abjuration-144 Conjuration-264 Divination-110 Enchantment-111 Evocation-227 Illusion-93 Necromancy-157 Transmutation-439 Universal-9 Transmuters unite. We will remake the world at our whim. However if you look at the available evocation spells for the first advanced learning you won't find many prior to the spell compendium. In all the complete books and all the races of blah books there are a total of 0 1st level evocation spells. Core accesswise this leaves the 3rd level warmage with the following choices for thier first 'advanced learning': Tenser's floating disk and the cantrip Dancing Lights. It's a bit of a downer. The next advanced learning at 6th has a reasonable amount of leeway if not a plethora of choices. But I figure it's the 1st one that has basically little or no variation that was the cause of grumbling. Especially when the spell compendium finally includes a number of 1st level evocations. -James
paigeoliver 02-16-06, 07:14 AM	Does anyone ever actually USE Tenser's Floating Disc in LG? I remember the spell getting cast all the time in home games to help haul big stuff out of dungeons and caverns and such, but I have never seen anyone cast the spell in a Living Greyhawk game.
redgamer 02-16-06, 08:37 AM	There's a few people who claim to use it all the time. I think one person posted they use 24/7. Never saw it used only heard about it.
Paul H 02-17-06, 03:32 PM	Hi Yep - I've used Tensers' Disk before, probably only couple times in Lg (Only 4th Lvl Warmage [3rd Lvl Cleric]), but few times in 'general' gaming. Especially useful for carrying those heavy items - statues (not saying which LG mod), bodies, etc. BTW - Noticed new version - Floating Disk, Greater in SC. You can ride this one as a flying carpet! Cheers Paul H
clannagh 02-20-06, 10:44 PM	one of the local wizzies stands on it and gets towed about basically gets pushed out of cover casts a scorching ray then gets pulled into cover again whilst a bit odd there seems nothing in the rules to expressly forbid it
clannagh 02-20-06, 10:45 PM	one of the local wizzies stands on the normal version and gets towed about basically gets pushed out of cover casts a scorching ray then gets pulled into cover again whilst a bit odd there seems nothing in the rules to expressly forbid it
scottishswash91 02-21-06, 12:48 AM	Tenser's floating disk???? Man, I forgot that spell existed.(Of course I play spellcasters about as often as Seattle wins the Super Bowl.
solbergb 02-22-06, 02:38 PM	Does anyone ever actually USE Tenser's Floating Disc in LG? I remember the spell getting cast all the time in home games to help haul big stuff out of dungeons and caverns and such, but I have never seen anyone cast the spell in a Living Greyhawk game. Yeah. My sorceress uses it all the time, and my warmage plans to use it as a replacement for the strength he doesn't have due to all his other attribute needs. Common uses: Put the slowpoke on the damn disk, so the whole party can move at 30. Repeat if there are several slowpokes. Put the guys with "balance take 10 of -3" on the disk when we encounter the narrow, slippery bridge over a chasm. Works even better if your caster can fly (or maybe spider climb) over the balance challenge, or if you're a trickster type with balance ranks. Related to the above, transport the tank across liquids or other difficult surfaces so he can full attack. Downside is your arcanist sometimes has to suck up AOO's to get him in the right position. Still worth it, usually, and sometimes they even get the "high ground" bonus. Immobile artillery (metamagic sorcerers, summoners, archers) can get the benefit of mobility while doing their thing, as long as they trust you to move them somewhere useful during your action. Dead/incapacitated body transport. Blinded characters can be slow, and a blinded fighter can contribute if you can move him next to an enemy and tell him which way to swing. Mule replacement in terrain/mods where your pack animals either can't come along or die. Also the ability to sort of summon an "army" of pack animals...my sorc when L3 moved 1800lb of grain several miles in one mod, just because that was something we suddenly really needed to be able to do. Less common uses: As a 3' high stepladder. It's amazing how handy this can be. A way to store dangerous liquids in quantity and transport them. Instant "table" for laying out maps, lunch or similar "in the field" amenities If you have Tenser's Disc on a spont caster, you should play with it. The stuff you can do as a wiz with it doesn't hold a candle to what you can do if you can create as many as you want with no real opportunity cost beyond a cheap low level slot.
shearin69 03-02-06, 08:38 AM	Until the Evocation Spells from the Spell Comp. gets approval rating form the Circle and added to Core the Warmage is still limited with what spells thye can select from. One bonus - the Blast of Force spell (previously only a divine - FORCE domain spell, is now avilable for WIZ/SOR so the Warmage can select this core spell.
Alma 03-19-06, 03:47 AM	Disc and dancing lights suck sure but you can take evocation from other lists the advanced learning does not say it has to be an arcane spell. So you do have options like Produce Flame (killer Spell) and other non arcane spells.
Iswald 03-19-06, 10:54 AM	"The spell must be a wizard spell of the evocation school..."
PaulH 03-26-06, 06:49 PM	"The spell must be a wizard spell of the evocation school..." Hi Quite correct - but think you're missing the point here, guys. Last thing Warmages need is (yet) another destructive spell - they already get spells from Cleric, Druid & Sorceror/Wizard lists. What they need is Utility spells. My 1st Lvl (gained at 3rd lvl Warmage) is Tensers' Disk. As already mentioned - it's so useful. My 3rd vl favourite (gained 6th lvl Warmage) is Leomund's Hut. So useful in dangerous terrains - especially so in Blight Sands environments - no heatstroke, heal normally, no sandstorms, total concealment, etc. The distinct lack of utility spells is the main reason for taking just 1 lvl in Bard/Cleric etc. (And to have access to Wands Cure Lt Wnds). My main is Clr/Warmage, going Mystic Theurge next level - excellent support character, but only main Healer/Warmage when playing down. (As happened at Conception this year). (Have taken Practiced Spellcaster Warmage to ensure good caster lvl damage, though my Int bonus +1 sucks). Cheers Paul H
GrahamWills 03-27-06, 09:18 PM	I completely agree on Tensor's and Leomund's Hut is a nice thought. However, I suggest that instead of spending a level on Cleric/Bard or whatever and then spending a feat on Practised Caster, instead consider putting points into UMD. A lot of utility spells are not time urgent, and so long as your UMD is around 10, you have a much better change for a success than a disaster -- especially for scrolls with synergy bonuses. A bunch of 1st and 2nd level scrolls with a reasonable UMD is a pleasant alternative.
JohnduBois 03-27-06, 09:53 PM	The UMD is fantastic, especially at higher levels. Then, you can get a "mock spellbook" of essential utility spells that can make a party's life much easier. My bard's "spellbook" will consist of the following once he puts it together (UMD for scrolls is currently +22 for scrolls, and I have a couple "+15 to CHA checks" for when I HAVE to emulate that 14 Wisdom right away): 1. Detect Secret Doors 2. Knock 3. Death Ward (yeah, I live in Furyondy) 4. Entangle 5. Invisibility 6. Lesser Restoration 7. Locate Object 8. See Invisibility 9. Shatter 10. Tongues 11. Dispel Magic 12. Identify 13. Holy Sword I may pick up Break Enchantment, Remove Disease, and/or Remove Curse at some point as well. I haven't yet decided if those are spells that I absolutely need in-mod or if they can wait until the party gets back to a town.
opa 03-28-06, 12:41 AM	If you are going to spend almost 4000gp worth of gold on consumables you might just wanna think about starting a character that can cast them normally, or dip a few levels into them you could have a +2 attribute item, Mithral breastplate a +1 sword shield and armor, or any number of permanent items for that amount of cash effectively your first 9 mods worth of gold... well hopefully you scribe them yourself, thatll help.. to each his own :)
JohnduBois 03-28-06, 01:02 AM	If you are going to spend almost 4000gp worth of gold on consumables you might just wanna think about starting a character that can cast them normally, or dip a few levels into them you could have a +2 attribute item, Mithral breastplate a +1 sword shield and armor, or any number of permanent items for that amount of cash effectively your first 9 mods worth of gold... well hopefully you scribe them yourself, thatll help.. to each his own :) I'm not talking about doing it in early levels. I'm talking about at APL 10 or 12, where those consumables are a couple mods' worth of gold to get in the first place, and then a fraction of a mod to replenish. Also at the higher APL's, the authors more frequently expect the PC's to have magical means of accomplishing their goals. I'd rather buy a scroll of Detect Secret Doors than go home because nobody took ranks in Search and we can't find the DC 25 door. I'd rather buy a scroll of Death Ward than helplessly watch my fighter get repeatedly level drained by a dread wraith. I'd rather buy a scroll of Identify than not realize until after the mod that the author gave me the means to neutralize the last encounter (year 4 Iuz metaregional - you had to fight a ghost with a sphere of ultimate damnation, and looted a rod of cancellation from an orc earlier in the mod). That's the kind of thing you do when you have a support character, by which I mean someone who cannot easily fill the role of rogue, fighter, divine caster, or arcane caster. Is it expensive? Yeah. But my character would rather go home having done his duty than walk home with a couple thousand more gold - especially since doing the job usually results in the acquisition of more gold. It also helps that I already have the mithral breastplate, +1 weapon, armor, and shield, and two +2 stat items. The only thing I need the money for is a 30,000 gp wondrous item I'll probably pick up near the end of the year.
blood_kite 03-28-06, 12:11 PM	As stupid as it sounds, I actually took Dancing Lights and Daylight as my 3rd and 6th level Advanced Learnings. I've found both to be extremely useful as a human warmage. Dancing lights allows me to illuminate targets without presenting myself as a target. I picked Daylight because I didn't want to have to deal with Darkness and Deeper Darkness spells but have never used it for that purpose. I've used it mainly on creatures with the Shadow template to remove their shadow bend ability and I've used it on several creatures that are adversly affected by Daylight and higher light spells.
solbergb 03-28-06, 12:45 PM	Yeah, daylight is surprisingly useful. There are a lot of shadow spells in the SC, and annoying shadow templated monsters roaming around. I like dancing lights too, but the force spells grab my attention with warmage. Part of that is because flaming sphere can accomplish much of what you'd do with dancing lights, but nothing duplicates what the force spells do. It's tough to beat this progression if going straight warmage: tenser's disk leomund's hut (or perhaps wind wall, but the hut is SO nice combined with orbs from inside) wall of force Contingency There are *enough* evocations. There isn't a big list, but the ones that are there complement the warmage list fairly well.
GreatSiron 04-03-06, 03:58 PM	Which 1st lvl spells can a warmage get from the spell compendium?
JohnduBois 04-03-06, 04:13 PM	All Core access spells on the Warmage spell list.
GreatSiron 04-03-06, 07:45 PM	So it's useless for advanced learning? So do I have any other options other than Floating Disk?
JamesMaissen 04-03-06, 09:37 PM	So it's useless for advanced learning? So do I have any other options other than Floating Disk? Unless you have somehow luckily found access prior to hitting 3rd level, your choices are Tenser's Floating Disc and Dancing Lights. Both are useful spells. But as the former scales by level and the later does not (not to mention prejudice against 0 level spells) I think most people go with Tenser's. Personally seeing how many evocations are out there in the SC, I think it's a shame to limit warmages to such a small list to vary themselves between. The 6th level advanced learning has some variation in it's candidates, though it's still a small list when just core spells are considered. The one after is nearly locked at wall of force although there are other choices there and PrCs can reasonably delay when the learning occurs to allow for some of the better of the Bigby spells to be chosen instead. -James