Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thosar Lueque 12-02-05, 02:46 AM	I have a few questions regarding using a net as a weapon and would like some opinions. According to the PHB/SRD this weapon (under its description) has 5 hit points and hardness 0 (as listed on page 166 of the PHB for rope, assuming a net is made of rope). Also under the description is listed that a creature hit by a net is entangled and must succeed on a Escape Artist check (DC 20) or attempt to burst the net with a DC 25 Strength check (both options are full-round actions). My question is why in the world would you need to know the Escape Artist and burst options when any fool with a dagger and a reasonable strength could do 5 points of damage and "ruin" it (as an item with 0 hp is called), making it useless and freeing themselves with a standard action instead? My second question is why would someone buy a net for 20 gp (not cheap), just to have someone cut it up so easily (aside from flavor)? Thoughts?
Sieylianna 12-02-05, 07:50 AM	My second question is why would someone buy a net for 20 gp (not cheap), just to have someone cut it up so easily (aside from flavor)? It's worse than that because the user must spend a feat on exotic weapon proficiency. I've looked at the net as a weapon, but the limited range and other problems make it inadvisable for Living Greyhawk. Ed
JamesMaissen 12-02-05, 03:11 PM	It's worse than that because the user must spend a feat on exotic weapon proficiency. I've looked at the net as a weapon, but the limited range and other problems make it inadvisable for Living Greyhawk. Ed You don't need the proficiency. You always make a ranged touch attack with one, so making one at -4 is probably still easier than a normal attack. Also for the spellsword/eldritch knights out there there's Master's Touch if you are limiting yourself to a specific Net. Is it the next secret weapon that defeats all you face? No. Can it be useful? Oh yeah.. it's lots of fun. It can be bull rush without the 25% chance to hit your friend... -James
waerlinga 12-03-05, 04:54 AM	I knew someone who ran a cleric that used nets without the exotic weapon proficiency, using the ranged touch attack to balance the -4 to attack. He never bothered to fold them back up, but just pulled out another if needed. He backed this up with summoning 1-3 monstrous spiders which ALSO attacked with webs. Yes, quite easy to cut through, but it would hamper the bad guy enough that he/she would be busy getting out of the webs. This usually allowed the party anywhere between 1-3 rounds of "free" attacks. It got even worse when the party mage started adding a Web spell to the mix as well. Used against a creature that doesn't wield a slashing weapon, it may not have much option except to try an Escape Artist check or to burst free. Note that the -4 to Dex automatically gives a -2 penalty to your already high Escape Artist check, making it very hard to get free. The burst free attempt is pretty high as well. It is easy to argue that the penalties for each net are cumulative (especially from three different sources such as above), thus three net attacks could bring the enemy to -6 to attack and -12 to Dex (-6 to Escape Artist checks). Picture this: an iron golem attacks a fishing village. With nets being plentiful but adamantine weapons scarce, could a group of men gaining just 3 successful improvised net attacks (cumulative -12 to Dex, bringing an iron golem with Dex 9 to 0 Dex) render the golem helpless until someone can arrive with an adamantine weapon? In the above campaign, the DM was considering some serious house rules to prevent overabuse. Net attacks may seem harmless, but with a little creativity can become quite cheesy.
Thosar Lueque 12-03-05, 11:01 AM	Thanks for all the replies. My memory sprang forth and reminded me that if I bought a +1 Net then the enemy would need at least a +1 weapon in order to cut through it! Make that a +1 Distance Net, raising the range to a whopping 20 feet, and now we're talking! :D I think there are options here.
waerlinga 12-04-05, 01:36 AM	Thanks for all the replies. My memory sprang forth and reminded me that if I bought a +1 Net then the enemy would need at least a +1 weapon in order to cut through it! Make that a +1 Distance Net, raising the range to a whopping 20 feet, and now we're talking! :D I think there are options here. Actually, you need to check out the 3.5 errata (I believe it's DMG, but maybe Player's Handbook). They discarded the need for an equivalent or greater weapon to sunder a magical weapon. Someone could, if doing enough damage to get through a magical weapon's hardness and hit points, sunder your weapon with a rusty butterknife (after taking a -4 for the improvised weapon, of course ;) ) Sorry to burst your bubble...
TheMagus 12-05-05, 11:49 AM	A +1 net has a hardness of 2 and 15 hit points. I have a character that uses a net, but it is more of a color thing, since he is a devout follower of Osprem. Still, they can be useful occasionally. I don't think you can store them folded for throwing, but it isn't really clear in the rules.
Azerin 12-07-05, 03:26 AM	Nets work really well with master throwers, or folks with quickdraw and ranged trip. There is nothing like throwing a net to hinder a target, something to trip it with its dex lessened, and then a tanglefoot bag to glue it to the ground. with a decent BAB and a few feats, you can take a caster out of combat, for a few rounds at least. -Azerin