Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rockondon 07-22-07, 10:26 AM	I like to type out my spell lists but they're mainly ones from the PHB. I'm wondering what good spells I'm overlooking. My casters are divine ones so I definately want to see those but arcane spells are welcome too. So what are your guys favorites?
Lupo 07-22-07, 10:59 AM	I like to type out my spell lists but they're mainly ones from the PHB. I'm wondering what good spells I'm overlooking. My casters are divine ones so I definately want to see those but arcane spells are welcome too. So what are your guys favorites? it depends . . . for any arcane caster: ORBS of anything, aside of this spells none of the outside the PHB spells are really THAT outstanding. some more, but definitely minor goodies: master's touch, scholar's touch, divines: vigor spells, resurgence, insignia of healing. apart from these anything that is SWIFT, any additional spell one can let fly per round is a VAST gain. most funny results/effects/stunts with swift spells so far: mounted druid having a flying pouncing tiger ;) doing a swift earth hammer, and see the evil guy get smashed due to the weapon ignoring his stoneskin. arcanist swift flying up to get a clear line for a lightning bolt etc. ciao martin m.
copper_wyrmling 07-22-07, 01:16 PM	These are some that I've seen used a lot: Arcane: - Fires of Purity - Greater Blink - Arc of Lightning - Greater Fireburst - Mass Fly - (Lesser) Orb of X - (Greater) Anticipate Teleportation - Greater Mage Armor - Whirling Blade (for spellsword types with feats invested in melee weapons) - Swift Fly - Guided Shot Cleric: - Bolt of Glory - Energy Immunity - Zealot Pact - Righteous Wrath of the Faithful - Stalwart Pact - Delay Death - Recitation - Insignia of Healing - Vigor and its variants - Healing Lorecall - Resurgence I'm sure I've forgotten some good ones.
RedKnightofKet 07-22-07, 01:59 PM	From the druid side of things, Nature's Favour is a pretty sweet one.
Frumpkis 07-22-07, 06:02 PM	On my sublime chord/caster bard: - Inspirational Boost - Harmonize - Mindless Rage (cast on nonflying creatures while I'm on my Carpet of Flying) - Blast of Flame On my support cleric: - Resurgence - all the Vigor spells - Close Wounds (actually, this is NONC, sorry.....still, a darned useful spell) - Insignia of Healing - Flame of Faith (cast on the monk who I adventure regularly with)
dg8672 08-07-07, 10:06 AM	I'd have to echo 'Mass Fly' - I have it w/ my sorcerer and its often the first spell I cast in each encounter. 'Orb of Force' is pretty great too. All of the orbs are good, but Orb of Force is medium range instead of short. Its a great undead killer.
control freak 08-07-07, 01:52 PM	:D Orb of force is amazeing at range, especialy when you crit with empowered ones :D otheres of note that havent been said summon dragon ally- for a price its effectivly "you win mod X collect your loot" mass aid- (this isnt open i know but its amazeing) DELAY DEATH (all clerics should prep 2+) some other summon spells are good but the great open spells are not that great good NoNc ones are sound lance, mass aid, several other mass spells, and the conj ice beast spell set
LeeShort 08-07-07, 02:49 PM	Joyful Noise hasn't been mentioned yet, and is very handy.
bitznarf 08-07-07, 05:16 PM	summon dragon ally- for a price its effectivly "you win mod X collect your loot" mass aid- (this isnt open i know but its amazeing) Neither of these are Open to all PCs.
control freak 08-07-07, 06:24 PM	yes you have to be a 7th level cleric, and for 1 you need the dragon domain, and the aid mass isnt open technecaly nothing is open to all PCs because of fighters and non casting classes:rolleyes: balor nimbus is open i believe?
bitznarf 08-07-07, 06:34 PM	yes you have to be a 7th level cleric, and for 1 you need the dragon domain, and the aid mass isnt open balor nimbus is open i believe? 1. '7th level cleric' has nothing to do with Open/Closed/NONC 2. Having the dragon domain Open does not make a spell Open. The spell is NONC. You can simply cast it out of a domain slot as if it was Open. 3. No, balor nimbus is not Open 4. The lists can be found here (http://www.wizards.com/rpga/downloads/LGCS_597_v7-5.zip) technically nothing is open to all PCs because of fighters and non casting classes:rolleyes: Items are Open/Closed/NONC without regard to class. Qualifying for something has nothing to do with Open/Closed nomenclature. Not qualifying for something does not make it Closed or NONC. For example Power Attack is always Open. Whether or not your particular PC can choose the feat is an entirely different story that has nothing to do with Open/Closed/NONC.
control freak 08-07-07, 06:58 PM	Delay death= open i KNOW that :P
Wraith235 08-07-07, 11:15 PM	Suprised noone has said Hail of stone .... 5ft Radius ... no Save no SR
Lomiat 08-07-07, 11:23 PM	My wizard doesn't cast too many Open spells from outside the PHB, but there are a couple he casts quite frequently: 1) Anticipate Teleportation 2) Dragonbreath My Trickster relies upon a few spells: 1) Master's Touch 2) Bladeweave 3) Greater Mage Armor 4) Fireburst 5) Body of the Sun Spells that I don't often use, but that I know are quite good: 1) Arc of Lightning 2) (Lesser) Orb of X 3) Mass Fly 4) Reciprocal Gyre And, with that, I'll conclude by pointing out that Reciprocal Gyre is almost in a class of its own. With no SR and a Will save for half, the spell is a fantastic way to do damage to things that are otherwise nigh-invulnerable -- as was evidenced when our party otherwise couldn't touch the BBEG with SR near 30, AC mid-40s and saves all mid-20s. Our sorcerer happened to know Reciprocal Gyre, so... a few rounds later, at about 15d12 per round, "we" (read: our sorcerer and the people who kept our sorcerer from getting splattered) managed to kill the BBEG and keep the vrocks from completing their dance of ruin in the middle of the battle interactive...
Vamroc 08-10-07, 04:28 PM	Orb of Force is good I wish my Spellsword had access to Summon Undead IV. Oh it's possible to get that spell it's just not easy. What I wouldn't give to summon a Wyrven freakin Zombie.
copper_wyrmling 08-12-07, 02:40 PM	And, with that, I'll conclude by pointing out that Reciprocal Gyre is almost in a class of its own. With no SR and a Will save for half, the spell is a fantastic way to do damage to things that are otherwise nigh-invulnerable -- as was evidenced when our party otherwise couldn't touch the BBEG with SR near 30, AC mid-40s and saves all mid-20s. Our sorcerer happened to know Reciprocal Gyre, so... a few rounds later, at about 15d12 per round, Er... he had 15 buff spells up? I don't usually run into bad guys who are quite that buffed ;) It's d12 per spell now iirc, not per spell level. My combat cleric got hit with it while buffed at one point, and pretty much shrugged it off (divine power, shield of faith, divine favor, righteous wrath, heroes' feast and energy immunity is only six spells...)
Lomiat 08-12-07, 08:47 PM	Er... he had 15 buff spells up? I don't usually run into bad guys who are quite that buffed ;) It's d12 per spell now iirc, not per spell level. My combat cleric got hit with it while buffed at one point, and pretty much shrugged it off (divine power, shield of faith, divine favor, righteous wrath, heroes' feast and energy immunity is only six spells...) Yep, 15 buffs, and none of us were attempting to dispel (I didn't have it prepared, figuring that at that APL anything that was handing out buffs was doing so 4 levels or better above my wizard). Our fighters (archer and dervish) couldn't hit the BBEG, our casters only seldom cracked his SR, and no one managed to get him to fail a save. Reciprocal Gyre was our ace in the hole. Then, when we reached our final encounter of the interactive, we kept tossing up walls (mostly of Force) that the monsters kept bypassing, until we'd taken enough damage from no-save, no-SR Sleet Storms that we had to retreat. No one managed to do any damage--whatsoever--to the BBEG in that encounter, though I'm fairly certain if we'd started tossing out Reciprocal Gyres there, he would have lit up like the proverbial Christmas tree (albeit an Evil Christmas tree). When I woke up from my short night of sleep the following morning, I accused myself of idiocy for failing to pack several Reciprocal Gyres to toss out along with our sorcerer (and for failing to position myself inside the Forcecube at the beginning of the battle). All said, that interactive was probably Lomiat's lowest point in 20 or so adventures. But, yeah... Reciprocal Gyre definitely has its place.
Infinitive 08-13-07, 11:34 AM	I've posted this mention elsewhere before, but I might as well note it here, because this bad boy is Open access. Insightful Feint (Sorc/Wiz 1, SpC) Swift Action You may feint once this turn as a move action or, if you have the Improved Feint feat, you may feint once this turn as a free action. You gain a +10 competence bonus to this check. I'm not going to lie, I built a whole character around this spell and Sneak Attack. Next level, I'll be up to 3d6 Sneak Attack with 4 spell slots for this per day (thanks to cool items) and 3 pearls of power. More, thanks to my Tiny Viper familiar, a meta-org bonus, and my Charisma, I'm sitting at a +22 bonus on my Bluff when using this spell before picking up a die. That's right. I can hit a 42 Bluff at level 5. This spell is stupidly good.
qstor 08-13-07, 12:23 PM	'Orb of Force' is pretty great too. All of the orbs are good, but Orb of Force is medium range instead of short. Its a great undead killer. Yeah it works good on constructs too. Its one of my favorites. Mike
_metz_ 08-13-07, 12:36 PM	I've posted this mention elsewhere before, but I might as well note it here, because this bad boy is Open access. Insightful Feint (Sorc/Wiz 1, SpC) Swift Action You may feint once this turn as a move action or, if you have the Improved Feint feat, you may feint once this turn as a free action. You gain a +10 competence bonus to this check. I'm not going to lie, I built a whole character around this spell and Sneak Attack. Next level, I'll be up to 3d6 Sneak Attack with 4 spell slots for this per day (thanks to cool items) and 3 pearls of power. More, thanks to my Tiny Viper familiar, a meta-org bonus, and my Charisma, I'm sitting at a +22 bonus on my Bluff when using this spell before picking up a die. That's right. I can hit a 42 Bluff at level 5. This spell is stupidly good. I would like to point out the following: 1. Feint only works on your next attack. 2. Feinting non humanoid monsters is pretty hard 3. You still need lots of Bluff to pull it off regularly - thats expensive 4. It only works on MELEE attacks - which isn't so useful when: 5. You can only do one swift action around. I wouldn't rate it as one of the best really. I know its been said - but... DELAY DEATH. Its just that good. Seriously.
Nuddawan 08-13-07, 04:16 PM	My personal faves: Darkvision, Mass so your party doesn't have to give itself away by carrying light sources Bands of Steel - "oh, so you made your reflex save Mr. Rogue? well, you are still entangled. What, evasion? It's not a damage dealing spell, sucker." Fly, Swift I've fought more street combats from rooftops than I can remember. However, I usually need help getting back down.
dkay807 08-13-07, 05:37 PM	Tracy nailed many of them... I'm just adding on. Critical Strike is great for melee/arcane PCs. Grave Strike and Golem Strike are popular for rogue/spellcaster PCs.
Fakegoatee 08-13-07, 06:16 PM	Why no mention of Unluck? I'm planning to take it next level, but I'm starting to second-guess myself since no one's mentioned it.
Genghis Cohen 08-13-07, 06:30 PM	From the druid side of things, Nature's Favour is a pretty sweet one.Some other nice druid spells include: Raptor's Sight (RotW) - hour/level gives +5 to spot and half the ranged increment penalty. Listening Lorecall (SpC) - 10 minutes per level. Why does my druid have two Pearl 2s and a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend dedicated to this spell? Its not the +4 to Listen, although that's nice. Blind Sense and Blind Sight!
Jay_Ibero_911 08-13-07, 08:33 PM	Why no mention of Unluck? I'm planning to take it next level, but I'm starting to second-guess myself since no one's mentioned it. Because generally speaking, if you can get the enemy to fail their save against unluck, there are better things you could toss for them to fail their saves against.
Timlagor 08-14-07, 08:13 AM	Unluck is nice when you get it and nice again when you can Quicken or Chain it but it's no Mass Fly.
Jamesps 08-15-07, 02:33 AM	Blech, do the GM a favor and never cast unluck. It slows things down terribly, entirely removing any degree of coolness.
rockondon 08-26-07, 09:19 PM	Here's my spell list for my 5th lvl druid, it includes a lot of non-PHB spells. I'm curious to know if there's anywhere that has spells typed out already so I don't have to do it myself. Druid level 0 Create Water: Up to 2 gallons per level. 1 gallon weighs 8lbs. 8 gallons = 1 cubic foot. Cure Minor Wounds: Creature touched is cured for 1pt of damage. Detect Magic: Detects spells and magic items within 60ft. Duration: concentration, 1 min/level. Light: Object glows like a torch. Bright light for 20ft radius (and dim light for another 20ft). Duration: 10min/level. Naturewatch: Caster knows condition of plants & animals within 30ft, dead, nearly dead, etc. 10min/lvl. Read Magic: 1 page/min. Duration: 10min/level. Identify glyph of warding = DC 13, spellcraft check. Identify greater glyph of warding = DC 16, spellcraft check. Identify symbol = DC 10 + spell level spellcraft check. Druid level 1 Camouflage: Personal. +10 hide. Duration 10min/lvl. Cloudburst: Clouds gather, heavy rain – extinguishes flames, -4 ranged attacks, -4 spot/search. 10min/lvl. Cure Light Wounds: Touch cures 1d8 + 1/level (+5 max) Entangle: Range: 400ft + 40ft/level. Area: 40ft radius spread. Save vs reflex every round to move at half speed. Grass, weeds, trees, etc entwine creatures. Creatures can break free and move half speed by using a full-round action to make a DC 20 strength check or DC 20 Escape Artist check. Duration: 1 min/level. Faerie Fire: No save. Range 400ft +40ft/lvl – creatures/objects in a 5ft radius burst. Duration: 1 min/level. Goodberry: Makes 2d4 berries magical, nourishes as a meal, cures 1 point of damage, last 1 day/level. Lesser Vigor: Creature touched gains fast healing 1 for 10 rounds +1/lvl (max 15 rounds). Longstrider: Personal. +10ft movement. Duration: 1 hour/level. Low-Light Vision: Creature touched gains low-light vision, 1 hour/lvl. Magic Fang: Creature touched gets one natural weapon +1 on attack and damage. 1 min/lvl. Obscuring Mist: Misty vapor, centered on you, 20ft radius & 20ft high. Obscures sight, including darkvision, beyond 5ft. 5ft away = 20% miss chance. 5+ft away = 50% miss chance and total concealment. Attackers can’t use sight to locate their target. Duration: 1 min/level. Raptor’s sight: Personal. +5 on spot checks. 5 ranks in spot = half the penalty for ranged attacks. 1 hour/lvl. Sandblast: 10ft radius burst takes 1d6 nonlethal damage, reflex save to avoid being stunned for 1 round. Shillelagh: Your own club or quarterstaff becomes +1 on attack rolls and damage and deals damage as though 2 size categories larger (1d10 damage). Duration: 1 min/level. Speak with Animals: You can comprehend and communicate with animals. Duration: 1 min/level. Summon Nature’s Ally I: Range: 25ft + (5ft/2 levels). Casting time: 1 round. Duration: 1 round/level. Traveller’s Mount: Animal/magical beast gets +20 move, can hustle without dmg/fatigue. 1 hour/lvl. Druid level 2 Animal Messenger: Range: 25ft + (5ft/2 levels). No saving throw. Duration: 1 day/level. Barkskin: Creature touched gains +2 to natural armor +1 for every 3 levels above 3rd. 10 min/level. Bear’s Endurance: Creature touched gains +4 constitution. Duration: 1 min/level. Binding Winds: Range 100ft + 10ft/lvl. Target creature can act but can’t move, can speak but can’t be heard, casting a spell requires concentration (spells’s DC +spell level). Holds flying creatures in mid air. Save: reflex negates. Duration: concentration. Body of the Sun: Personal. Fire extends 5ft all around you. 1d4 dmg/2 lvls (max 5d4). Creatures take fire dmg on your turn. 1 round/lvl. Brambles: Wood weapon touched deals piercing/bludgeoning damage, +1 attack rolls, +1/caster lvl on melee damage rolls (max +10). 1 round/lvl. Briar Web: Range 100ft +10ft/lvl. 40ft area – grass/weeds/trees grow thorns and wrap around creatures – difficult terrain, half-speed movement, 1 damage per 5ft moved. Woodland stride = unaffected. 1 min/lvl. Camouflage, Mass: +10 hide, any number of creatures within 60ft, Duration 10min/lvl. Cat’s Grace: Creature touched gains +4 dexterity. Duration: 1 min/level. Chill Metal: Non-magic objects get no save. Duration: 7 rounds. Round 1 – cold – no dmg. Round 2 – icy – 1d4 dmg. Round 3-5 – freezing – 2d4 dmg. Round 6 – icy – 1d4 dmg. Round 7 – cold – no dmg. Creeping Cold: Range 25ft +5ft/2lvls. One creature, round 1 = 1d6 cold, round 2 = 2d6, then 3d6. Save: fortitude half (roll one saving throw, it applies to all three rounds). Delay Poison: Creature touched is immune to poison for 1 hour/level. Fire Trap: Reflex save for half. 1d4 + (1/level) fire damage. Casting time: 10 minutes. Duration: permanent until discharged. Flame Blade: 3ft long scimitar of fire – melee touch attacks. 1d8 + 1 per 2 lvls. Str mod doesn’t apply. Flaming Sphere: Range: 100ft + 10ft/level. Moves 30ft/round, including flying. 2d6 fire damage, reflex save for none. Duration: 1 round/level. Fog Cloud: Range: 100ft + 10ft/level. Area: 20ft radius, 20ft high. Obscures sight beyond 5ft. 5ft away = 20% miss chance. 5+ft away = 50% miss chance, total concealment. Attackers can’t use sight to locate you. 10 min/level. Listening Lorecall: Personal. +4 to listen checks. 5 ranks in listen = blindsense, 10 ranks = blindsight. 10min/lvl. Nature’s Favor: Casting time: swift. Animal touched gains a +1 per 3 levels luck bonus on attack and damage rolls. Duration: 1 min. Restoration, Lesser: Dispels effects that temporarily reduce ability ability score or cures 1d4 ability damage. Eliminates fatigue or raises subject from exhaustion to fatigue. Soften Earth and Stone: Earth becomes loose sand, stone becomes soft clay. Area: 10ft square, up to 4ft deep. Spider Climb: Subject touched can travel walls, ceilings, etc. Climb speed: 20ft. Duration: 10 min/level. Summon Dire Hawk: Range 25ft + (5ft/2lvls). Casting time: 1 round. Summons a dire hawk, can be commanded telepathically. 1 min/lvl. Summon Nature’s Ally II: Range: 25ft + (5ft/2 levels). Casting time: 1 round. Duration: 1 round/level. Swim: Target creature swims at 30 movement, no swim checks needed if light load, +8 swim checks, 10 min/lvl. Train Animal: Creature touched gains additional trick/2 caster lvls. 1 hour/lvl. Warp Wood: May warp one small object per level. Medium object = 2 small objects. Large object = 4. A warped door springs open or becomes stuck. Warped ranged weapons are useless. Druid Level 3 Call Lightning: range 100ft +10ft lvl. 5ft wide x 30ft long bolts of lightning deal 3d6 dmg. One bolt comes after casting, after that you may use a standard action to call 1 bolt per round. Max number of bolts is 1/lvl. Save: reflex half. Duration: 1 min/lvl. Cloak of Bravery: 60ft radius, allies get get +1/caster level morale bonus against fear. 10min/lvl. Cure Moderate Wounds: Creature touched cured 2d8 + 1/lvl damage (max +10). Dominate Animal: Range 25ft + 5ft/2 lvls. Save: will negates. You can direct it with simple commands such as “attack” “run” “fetch.” Suicidal or self-destructive commands are ignored. Magic Fang, Greater: Range 25ft + 5ft/2 lvls. The natural weapons of a creature are given +1 per 4 caster lvls to attack and damage. Duration: 1 hour/lvl. Meld into Stone: Personal. Melds you and your possessions into stone. You can cast spells on yourself. Duration 10 min/lvl. Neutralize Poison: Creature or object up to 1 cubic foot/lvl touched. Any current poisons are detoxified and creature is impervious to poison for 10min/lvl. Plant Growth: Range 400ft + 40ft/lvl of plants become overgrown. Speed becomes 5ft for medium creatures, 10ft for large or bigger creatures. You may designate areas within this area to not be affects. This spell can be used to enrich crops by 30 percent. Protection from Energy: Creature touched Immune to 1 type of energy (fire/cold/etc) Absorbs 12/lvl. Duration: 10 min/lvl. Quench: Range 100ft + 10ft/lvl. Area: one 20ft square/lvl. Creature passing through on foot take 1d4 dmg per 5ft movement. Cratures that take dmg also make reflex save or have their movement halved. Duration: 1 hour/lvl. Spikes: Wood weapon touched deals p/b damage, +2 attack rolls, +1/caster lvl on melee damage rolls (max +10), doubled threat range (doesn’t stack). 1 round/lvl. Summon Nature’s Ally III: Range: 25ft + 5ft/2 lvls. Casting time: 1 round. Can summon 1 3rd lvl creature or 1d3 2nd lvl creatures or 1d4 +1 1st lvl creatures. Duration: 1 round/lvl. Swift Fly: Casting time: swift. Duration: 1 round. You fly 60ft, good maneuverability. After it expires you float downward slowly 60ft/round. Water Breathing: Lasts 2 hours per lvl divided by the number of creatures touched. Wind Wall: Range 100ft + 10ft/lvl. A curtain of wind 2ft thick and very strong. Arrows and bolts are deflected upward and miss. Small creatures, gasses, and most breath weapons cannot pass through.
JamesMaissen 08-26-07, 09:29 PM	Unluck is nice when you get it and nice again when you can Quicken or Chain it but it's no Mass Fly. I'm sorry.. but what's the draw to Unluck? It's weak and near useless imho. Compare it to casting any other Will negates spell.. say Tasha's or Glitterdust.. both of which are a level lower. If you get the bad guy to fail a will save then you should own them. Not *just* get a better chance to own them with your *next* spell. -James
Lomiat 08-26-07, 10:20 PM	I'm sorry.. but what's the draw to Unluck? It's weak and near useless imho. Compare it to casting any other Will negates spell.. say Tasha's or Glitterdust.. both of which are a level lower. If you get the bad guy to fail a will save then you should own them. Not *just* get a better chance to own them with your *next* spell. -James I agree 100%.
Britt 08-26-07, 10:37 PM	The benefit of unluck (other than as a trap component ;)) is not in a solo-mentality, but in a team-mentality. If you have a caster-heavy party, unluck against a big creature can make the spells of all your teammates more likely to go off. It's low enough level that one spell is usually not going to take a big creature out. Sure, at higher levels there are likely better spells, but that's the case with most spells. Unluck is good in a caster heavy party at low to mid levels. IMO, most people underestimate the power of debuffing. Stacking spells like unluck, wave of grief, bane, touch of fatigue and similar spells can make a tough encounter easy.
Redfist 08-26-07, 11:14 PM	Also - Unluck against a foe with many attacks is also nice. As Britt mentioned, having a creature more likely to fail against other saves (your other spell casters) is nice, but consider the fact that the creature is now going to hit less often and when they do hit they'll hit for less. Consider Unluck on a 9 headed hydra. hehe
JamesMaissen 08-27-07, 02:55 AM	The benefit of unluck (other than as a trap component ;)) is not in a solo-mentality, but in a team-mentality. If you have a caster-heavy party, unluck against a big creature can make the spells of all your teammates more likely to go off. It's low enough level that one spell is usually not going to take a big creature out. Sure, at higher levels there are likely better spells, but that's the case with most spells. Unluck is good in a caster heavy party at low to mid levels. IMO, most people underestimate the power of debuffing. Stacking spells like unluck, wave of grief, bane, touch of fatigue and similar spells can make a tough encounter easy. I certainly don't value the power of rehabilitating the bad guy, however what does it really accomplish? If I'm a wizard with the following three spells: Glitterdust, Unluck, and Charm Monster, which all involve will negates saves what happens with each failed save? Glitterdust: Blinded for 1round/level. Unless it has Blindsight (or atleast scent or blindsense) the creature can be taken out with relative ease. Even if it knows which square the opponents are in the 50% miss chance and lack of AOOs and ablitiy to withdraw takes it out of the running. It's also medium range, area effect and no SR. Charm Monster: Friend for most (if not all) of the module. Taken completely out of the combat, and potentially added to the team for future (or even current) combats. Unluck: Has to roll twice for everything. Sure it's greatly nerfed by this, but compare to the other two and it's weak. What spells are more likely to go off on the creature? The charm or other will or be removed spells? Doing that in the first place would have also done it. For this spell to have the draw that people seem to place upon it, it would need to force a save each round or suffer the effects for that round... then it might be online as a 3rd level spell. It sounds nice as an idea, but in practice.. if they would have failed the save against unluck then they could have failed one of many will or be removed effecting spells out there. Perhaps you can find a very aberrant creature out there that can be effected by unluck but no other will shutdown spell, but it would be a search. -James
Britt 08-27-07, 03:05 AM	Charm monster is a higher level spell and the monster gets a bonus on its save against the spell during combat. Glitterdust is nigh universally considered an overpowered spell and doesn't really do anything against a creature that has blindsight, blindsense, or similar abilities. Yes, glitterdust is typically a better spell, but that's not saying much, as it is usually better than spells a few levels higher :) I'm not saying unluck is a totally awesome spell, but it has its uses, imo. It's particularly good against creatures that have a low Will save but you want to target with Fort or Ref saves. It's also good if you're playing a luck-themed character, such as a bard/cleric of Ralishaz :)
JamesMaissen 08-27-07, 06:00 AM	Charm monster is a higher level spell and the monster gets a bonus on its save against the spell during combat. That depends on whether or not you are a bard/cleric of Ralishaz or not.. Charm is a 3rd level Bard spell as I recall. But the point is simply that how it lines up there are far worse things that you can do so someone failing their will save than unluck. There's also Tasha's, Suggestion, Bestow Curse, and the list goes on... It's a cute idea.. and seems fun.. but like I said.. it would need to be tweaked to be brought up to the level of how it's thought of by some. In any event, it certainly doesn't belong on a list of 'best open non-PhB spells' in terms of power.. it's far more mediocre than that. -James
Genghis Cohen 08-27-07, 07:01 AM	IMO, most people underestimate the power of debuffing. Stacking spells like unluck, wave of grief, bane, touch of fatigue and similar spells can make a tough encounter easy.Don't forget Slow!
Fakegoatee 08-27-07, 08:48 AM	In any event, unluck certainly doesn't belong on a list of 'best open non-PhB spells' in terms of power.. it's far more mediocre than that. One important feature of unluck is that it's a divination spell. It gives pure diviners (who aren't rogues or elves) an offensive option that is in their specialty school. My PC is a human straight diviner. For me, the question isn't, "How good is unluck compared to all other offensive spells?" It's, "How good is unluck compared to arcane sight, clairaudience/clairvoyance, lesser telepathic bond, and tongues?" I suspect I'll wind up making great use of arcane sight (to find out where to target my dispel magics), and c/c looks fun to me, too. It's hard to pass over a directly offensive option, though, especially when the lower level offensively useful divinations seem to require rogue levels.
LeeShort 08-27-07, 09:49 AM	Unluck is definitely a situation-dependent spell. Against the uberbrutes, it's not so useful (they generally succeed on their attacks and grapples anyway, and you'd have been better off with Slow, by a long shot). But against a heavily-armored brute who failed his first save against your Grease...it can take him out of the combat. It's also very effective against creatures that don't have an uber attack bonus and need a decent roll to hit your tanks (often creatures with multiple attacks). There are other good uses, too -- but it's not a spell for all situations.