Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lomiat 08-16-06, 01:41 AM	Okay, for whatever it's worth, our party for an upcoming session is going to be without a dedicated tank, and we're planning to summon a Planar Ally. We can work out the expenses and everything to get an Astral Deva, Leonal or Lantern Archon (depending on the caster). At this point, the table's likely to consist of 2 clerics, 1 archer, 1 rogue, 1 wizard... and one other non-tank... I can't remember precisely. We'll give the Ally some buffs no matter which we choose, but I wonder which Ally you people would choose and why? The Leonal's arcane-mimic spell-like abilities add more to the party, but its lack of flight puts a crimp on things. Also, all of the aforementioned potential Allies have Polymorph as an ability; is there any form particularly useful for a 12-HD good outsider to assume? (We'll rule out any evil outsiders before this even gets to the DM.) Thanks!
copper_wyrmling 08-16-06, 03:44 AM	Is the archer a ranger? If not, it might be worth taking the leonal just for its Track feat and high Survival, especially if the mod looks wilderness-oriented. Also, the leonal's DR is better against evil outsiders, so if the module blurb implies demonic / devilish involvement, it might make a better meatshield. As a damage-dealer, I suspect the astral deva is better, because unlike the leonal, it has Power Attack for getting through DR (although you might be able to compensate for that with the right buffs on the leonal). The deva also has better social skills and a permanent Tongues, if you're lacking a party face. I think I'd be inclined to go with the astral deva, overall. (My cleric of Joramy would love to be able to call either of them, but in LG, the called creature has to have exactly the same alignment as the cleric's deity - and there just aren't many neutral outsiders in the MM. Ah well.)
Arvagor 08-16-06, 11:55 AM	(My cleric of Joramy would love to be able to call either of them, but in LG, the called creature has to have exactly the same alignment as the cleric's deity - and there just aren't many neutral outsiders in the MM. Ah well.)I would think you have just as much choice as any other alignment. You can call the following: Arrowhawk, Genie (Janni), Mephit (any), Rast, Ravid, Tojanida, Xorn. Maybe not the powerhouses that, say, Lawful Good can bring down (can we say "Solar"), but you're certainly doing better than somebody who is Lawful Neutral (azers and formians)...
Mommy was an Orc 08-17-06, 09:13 AM	I assume you mean Trumpet Archon, not Lantern Archon? I'd go with the Trumpet - presuming you get a day to remix its spells, it is a 14th level Cleric...
Iswald 08-17-06, 09:47 AM	I assume you mean Trumpet Archon, not Lantern Archon? I'd go with the Trumpet - presuming you get a day to remix its spells, it is a 14th level Cleric... A trumpet archon would be very nice. But, give the description of its combat techniques, I don't think one would ever agree to take on the role of 'tank' in a group.
copper_wyrmling 08-17-06, 09:50 AM	I assume you mean Trumpet Archon, not Lantern Archon? I'd go with the Trumpet - presuming you get a day to remix its spells, it is a 14th level Cleric... Ah, that would make more sense (I was wondering how the lantern archon fitted into that group). I agree then, the trumpet archon is probably the best. Mind you, you might want to lend it a periapt of wisdom. It doesn't actually have enough Wisdom to cast its L7 spells :(
Mommy was an Orc 08-17-06, 10:12 AM	A trumpet archon would be very nice. But, give the description of its combat techniques, I don't think one would ever agree to take on the role of 'tank' in a group. It ups the 'risk', but I don't think it makes the risk suicidal - they prefer to use spells, not that they have to do so. Give it some Mithril Chain and have it cast Magic Vestment, AC goes up to 35(likely 37 most of the time). Divine Power kicks their Strength up to 26 as well as giving them the hit points of a Barbarian 1/Fighter 11 with a 20 Constitution. Not too shabby.
Iswald 08-17-06, 11:44 AM	The problem is this: Combat A trumpet archon usually disdains physical combat, preferring to obliterate foes with spells quickly and return to its duties. The problem isn't a question of risk. It's that their outlook is so much against going into melee, even if they can do it very well. The DM would be well within their rights to say a trumpet archon wouldn't tank for you. You'd need to come up with an extremely persuasive reason (beyond a mere die roll), if I was the judge. If you wanted them as a caster cleric, then I'd have no problem with calling one if you had reasonable cause to do so. If you did call one to cast spells and it ended up using all its spells or none of its spells would work and it had to wade into melee, that would be perfectly in character for the archon.
Mommy was an Orc 08-17-06, 01:53 PM	The problem isn't a question of risk. It's that their outlook is so much against going into melee, even if they can do it very well. The DM would be well within their rights to say a trumpet archon wouldn't tank for you. You'd need to come up with an extremely persuasive reason (beyond a mere die roll), if I was the judge. According to the LGCS(and the spell), the reason a Planar Ally can reject a task is if it thinks it is suicidal in nature - in a home game, the Trumpet Archon could argue with them indefinitely. With LG, it is less than a minute at worst. I find it difficult to believe that a DM can argue that the action is that far out of their outlook - they carry a greatsword, not a longbow. I'm a little surprised at how effective the spell potentially is in Living Greyhawk - it seems quite possible to deliberately play up in some situations where the Trumpet Archon would compensate quite handily for doing so and the extra treasure gained more than pays for the cost. Ghaele similarly so - less hit points, but Aid, CLW, and Greater Invisibility at will are pretty powerful.
Shieldhart91 08-19-06, 05:02 PM	Depends on what types of Clerics you have. Tank-Clerics are wonderful. One of my home campaigns, we have a cleric in our group who has AC 22. Heavy hitter as well, and has moderate HP to get through all of the baddies. Don't be afraid to take use of that heavy armor proficiency for clerics.