Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LGMoses 02-15-07, 02:48 AM	We currently have: a lvl 2 paladin 675 xp from lvling to 3 lvl 2 swashbuckler lvl 2 barb1/cleric1 lvl 2 fighter lvl 2 rogue lvl 2 bard lvl 5 sorcerer available to replace cler1/barb1 do u think they could be ready for APL 4 yet? when is a good time to jump up an apl?
cycloptic_squirrel 02-15-07, 03:25 AM	Rule of thumb is you want one guy above APL. When everyone's the same level, I'd play down as often as possible. Even when six equal leveled PCs are forced up an APL, that means that every individual is one below APL, not a great thing, especialy considering some mods start assuming certain capabilities, such as iterative attacks at APL 6, which play heck with us gish :( I'd say once the paladin hits three, you could try it if the 5 came. Just be careful...
paigeoliver 02-15-07, 07:04 AM	You really DON'T want to APL 4 with a table full of level 2 characters. The APL 2 to APL 4 jump is the single most drastic one in the game. Particularly if your party features characters of average to below average effectiveness (small sized fighting characters, low str rogues without weapon finesse, etc, etc).
RedKnightofKet 02-15-07, 09:46 AM	2+2+2+2+2+5=15, which barely becomes APL 4. I recommend avoiding the higher APL until you have to play it; in other words, once your table of all 2's totals 15 or higher. At that point, sub the 5 back in, and you should be a comfortable APL 4.
jstorrie 02-15-07, 12:46 PM	Play the two APL2 mods to level your Paladin to 3. After that, you should be able to handle APL4 with this group - you may not have the sheer numbers, but you seem to have balance, which is important as well. But this fully depends on how well your characters are built, how tactically well they play, and how wisely they choose their equipment. If it's a party played by UMiskatonics and Mommy was an Orcs, you'll make it. If it's a party of people who haven't even bought cold iron, CLW potions, and oils of magic weapon yet, you gonna get TPK'd.
bitznarf 02-15-07, 01:21 PM	But this fully depends on how well your characters are built, how tactically well they play, and how wisely they choose their equipment. If it's a party played by UMiskatonics and Mommy was an Orcs, you'll make it. If it's a party of people who haven't even bought cold iron, CLW potions, and oils of magic weapon yet, you gonna get TPK'd. Nothing makes up for a crit taking you from full heath to dead though.
jstorrie 02-15-07, 01:54 PM	Don't get in crit range unless you're a tank. Wear the best armor you can. Buff. Disable dangerous opponents quickly. You can't stop a crit once it's happened, but you can mostly prevent them from happening in the first place.
Mommy was an Orc 02-15-07, 02:09 PM	We currently have: a lvl 2 paladin 675 xp from lvling to 3 lvl 2 swashbuckler lvl 2 barb1/cleric1 lvl 2 fighter lvl 2 rogue lvl 2 bard lvl 5 sorcerer available to replace cler1/barb1 do u think they could be ready for APL 4 yet? when is a good time to jump up an apl? You're weak on arcane and healing, and your way around it is to kill your healing. That really reduces your leeway at APL 4, because your fighter types are not doing that extra +6-8 or so damage per swing. One more level, your Paladin can get Extra Smite, your Swashbuckler gets Int to damage, your Barbarian gets Extra Rage, your fighter gets a feat, Rogue gets a sneak attack die, and the Bard can do Inspire Courage/Inspirational Boost through a 3 combat mod. I'd wait until I was forced to go up with this group when you're 3 3s and 3 2s.
bitznarf 02-15-07, 03:35 PM	Don't get in crit range unless you're a tank. Wear the best armor you can. Buff. Disable dangerous opponents quickly. You can't stop a crit once it's happened, but you can mostly prevent them from happening in the first place. You're saying that unless you are a tank (however one defines tank) use a reach weapon or a ranged weapon? In the situation in particular that killed me last night we were buffed and the one bad guy left was tripped. my character uses a ranged weapon and would not have been able to hit the guy (AC 27 vs ranged due to being prone) unless he rolled a nat 20. So my char moved in with a longsword, trying to help out where he could. The bad guy fought defensively from prone while power attacking for full. He needed 20's to hit and confirm. He got them. Rolled almost max damage on the dice. Whap. One hit and dead to -10. This isn't even a case of it being one BBEG who is overpowered. There were 2 of these critters, and one of them had been dropped the round previous. Not sure what else I could have done in this situation other then to just stand there and cheer. P.S. I did raise the guy due to having enough overcap to make it worthwhile, so now he is a Bard 1.
cycloptic_squirrel 02-15-07, 04:16 PM	You're weak on arcane and healing, and your way around it is to kill your healing. I agree with waiting on the APL 4, but on the healing issue... From my limited experience at APL 2 the healer is any guy with a happy stick. While this isn't a great option at APL 4, I wouldn't call it weak. At these low levels the main advantages of a cleric are the other spells - resurgence, bless, calm emotions, etc.
ithardin 02-15-07, 05:54 PM	There will be plenty of time to play up. I may be too cautious for most LG players but I usually won't play an APL more then one level away from my PCs level until I hit 6th. I would at the very least have one of your party at level 4 and the rest 3 before playing APL4...but then like I said, I am cautious. p.s. of course I did play a 7th level rogue in an APL12 IUZ metaregional. Thank goodness for clerics with shield other and a sorcerer about to retire :)
Hariman 02-15-07, 06:08 PM	Don't go into APL 4 with that party. Not even for a Core Mod. Think about it. An APL 4 Core adventure often has APL+2 or +3 encounters. That would mean that your 4 or 5 level 2s would be in an encounter of APL +4 or +5! It's TPK territory by any standards. Make sure everyone is at least level 3 before going into an APL 4. Because even if the sorcerer 5 can dish it out, the other character's hit point totals, equipment and spells will be behind the curve.
jstorrie 02-16-07, 02:34 PM	Not sure what else I could have done in this situation other then to just stand there and cheer. Drop a tanglefoot bag on him? Thow a net at him? Try to disarm him with a whip? Start healing friendlies and Greyhawking treasure? Low level bards ought to carry a whip or a longspear for these sorts of situations.
_metz_ 02-16-07, 08:10 PM	You really DON'T want to APL 4 with a table full of level 2 characters. The APL 2 to APL 4 jump is the single most drastic one in the game. I would argue its 4 to 6 personally, but hey. I usualyl find 2's do ok in APL 4s, but yeah a whole table of them is pushing it.
The_Jester 02-17-07, 12:21 PM	If you're the DM take it on a mod-by-mod basis. Read through and if it's alot of heavy damage that could easily deal out 30pts in a single hit drop them down to APL2. If there's tough combats that do alot of damage over a period of time of the mod is more trap/investigative based then let them dip up.
amnuxoll 02-19-07, 12:28 PM	My default rule is always play down unless you have a good reason not to. I can relax, enjoy the game and roleplay instead of worrying about playing perfect tactics to survive. :AMN: