Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ishorn 05-17-07, 05:56 AM	The Living Greyhawk Campaign is no longer a Living Campaign but a D&D campaign same as Mark of Heroes & Xen'Drik Expeditions. You can argue that no it is not but when a player character can no longer gain magical items as treasure and you receive those campaign cards in the mail then call it what it is. I have been in debates over the other two D&D campaigns with other RPGA members that say that they will only play LG and that there is no way Wizards will kill LG. It looks like to me that they are doing a good job of it. You guys should have stood your ground and said no we do not want your campaign cards. We want our certs.
_metz_ 05-17-07, 06:04 AM	The campaign cards are just rewards for playing lots of games/supporting the campaign as well as DMing. Also the character card comes with some big downsides, so not really overpowered or anything. You say "you guys" as if you don't lay LG. If you don't play LG then clearly you don't understand WHY it is different. The AR system is in effect, and it doesn't have that stupid auto leveling systems some others do. (If you are level 10 with cool stuff in LG you earned it) "can no longer gain magical items as treasure" - I don't know what you are on About but I am new to LG (bit over a year). I think you either need to be clear and backup your argument, or otherwise you just sound like you are making a random rant about nothing based on little actual knowledge of the campaign.
Haro 05-17-07, 06:06 AM	The Living Greyhawk Campaign is no longer a Living Campaign but a D&D campaign same as Mark of Heroes & Xen'Drik Expeditions. You can argue that no it is not but when a player character can no longer gain magical items as treasure and you receive those campaign cards in the mail then call it what it is. I have been in debates over the other two D&D campaigns with other RPGA members that say that they will only play LG and that there is no way Wizards will kill LG. It looks like to me that they are doing a good job of it. You guys should have stood your ground and said no we do not want your campaign cards. We want our certs. Did someone call a taxi for Ishorn? Anyone?
Simpi 05-17-07, 06:30 AM	You guys should have stood your ground and said no we do not want your campaign cards. We want our certs. Moaning about certs half-a-decade after they were removed (Year 2) seems quite...pointless to me. Perhaps you mean something else than campaing cards and certs. (Note: We still get the occasional cert from Core specials. I have ones from "Ghost Tower", "Castle Greyhawk" & "Tsojcanth") Sampo Haarlaa Naerie Triad
Ishorn 05-17-07, 06:46 AM	So you are saying that you can go into adventures and pick up any kind of magical items (not including potions) or do you pick up monetary treasure then go back to what ever city is near by and buy the items you want within limits of a list that generated by the management of the RPGA. With the character creation cards and other reward cards how long until higher ups put in level bumps.
pedr 05-17-07, 07:41 AM	You're complaing about something that happened something like five years ago. If you don't like it, play Living Kingdoms of Kalamar or Living Arcanis! I never played with the certs system, but I've not heard good things about it. Particularly the anecdote from one of the founders of our group who nearly stopped playing because at his first LG game some (idiot) of a player decided to steal certs and browbeat everyone else into giving him the one meaningful/expensive item. I wouldn't be playing LG had he not persevered through this ridiculous first experience, so I'm glad that such activities aren't possible any more!
Ishorn 05-17-07, 07:57 AM	You're complaing about something that happened something like five years ago. If you don't like it, play Living Kingdoms of Kalamar or Living Arcanis! I never played with the certs system, but I've not heard good things about it. Particularly the anecdote from one of the founders of our group who nearly stopped playing because at his first LG game some (idiot) of a player decided to steal certs and browbeat everyone else into giving him the one meaningful/expensive item. I wouldn't be playing LG had he not persevered through this ridiculous first experience, so I'm glad that such activities aren't possible any more! Okay, I started this thread on too much adrenalin. I play Mark of Heroes and Xen'drik Expedition campaigns. I was on Ebay looking for rewards cards for those settings when I discovered the Living Greyhawk rewards cards. So no I do not play LG or any other Living Campaign because Eberron is not allowed a Living Campaign. I was attacked on an other thread in which I stated that the RPGA management wished that the Living Campaigns would go away. An individual said that this would never happen and once I discovered the rewards cards and character build cards it is proof that the end is coming it is only a matter of time for the level bumps. As for your last paragraph I witnessed events like this happening and it is one of the reason I left LG but in fairness these individuals were usually friends or Triad members themselves that were doing this. The Triads had or still have their own private Yahoo group and were able to tell each other were the best magical items were and they would show up at events and grab up these certs. My point is that LG is going out with a wimper and not a bang.
Mithreinmaethor 05-17-07, 08:04 AM	So you are saying that you can go into adventures and pick up any kind of magical items (not including potions) or do you pick up monetary treasure then go back to what ever city is near by and buy the items you want within limits of a list that generated by the management of the RPGA. With the character creation cards and other reward cards how long until higher ups put in level bumps. There are no Level Bumps in LG. You earn exps and advance in levels that way. Have you even played an LG game in the last 2 years ? Just wondering. I just started playing LG myself a year ago and have had a great time with it. I have no interest in the Xendrix and Mark of Heroes stuff (mainly because I despise the Eberron setting). I guess unfortunately for the Eberron fans out there there is not enough of a support base for a Living Campaign. I am sure WOTC would love for there to be to sell product, but it just isnt there. At least not that I have seen. But who knows I have heard they are going to announce a new campaign soon. Maybe it will be the Living Eberron or something.
Sieylianna 05-17-07, 08:18 AM	I guess unfortunately for the Eberron fans out there there is not enough of a support base for a Living Campaign. I am sure WOTC would love for there to be to sell product, but it just isnt there. At least not that I have seen. There is plenty of support for a living Eberron, but HQ keeps trying to shove the D&D campaigns format down our throats. Ed
TWG_Prometheus 05-17-07, 09:41 AM	So....what you're saying is that: YOU saw campaign cards and decided that this meant something weird. YOU went into a forum and started saying that RPGA HQ didn't want Living Campaigns. YOU got argued with. NOW you're here and still claiming that Living Greyhawk is dying because of some weird logical link none of us can see... I'm sorry. It's a flame I guess, but I just don't get where you're coming from. Around here, the Living Greyhawk campaign cards were seen as a big boost of support from RPGA HQ...they're something we were wishing we could've had a long time ago. Nothing at all has changed about the basic way that Living Greyhawk is run in the last year. There are no signs of this campaign dying. If you want to get anything done with this thread, you're going to have to explain your line of reasoning more fully. Also, it appears that you no longer know much about how Living Greyhawk is run...might help to learn that first.
The_Jester 05-17-07, 09:49 AM	I think the confusion stems from LG now apparently being classified a "D&D Campaign" and not a "Living" Campaign. I think that might be because they're phasing out the others slowly and because LG is a D&D campaign so it fits just as well in that category. We've been using the cards in LG for a while, only we're limited to ones that don't use Action Points. The LG cards are just us getting some campaign specific ones at last.
trollbill 05-17-07, 09:52 AM	I have never played in a Campaign that used Certs but I have heard plenty of bad things about most Cert systems. But if you really like Certs there are plenty of campaigns out there: Living Kingdoms of Kalamar, Living Arcanus, Dave Arneson's Blackmoor, Legend of the Shining Jewel, etc. I seriously doubt you will see level bumps in LG as it would require a reworking of the system to such an extent that you might as well end the campaign and start a new one. I personally much prefer the living system over the Campaign system, but for some reason, Wizards doesn't. But even if they don't, they realize LG is their most successful campaign. So I doubt they will shut it down until they can come up with something that both management and LGers will accept as a replacement, and the current Campaign system isn't it. I have heard rumors they are coming out with a new one, so we'll see what that's like.
LachlarlanIII 05-17-07, 10:16 AM	In my opinion, if LG ever changed to a DnD Campaigns format, the RPGA would implode as people left in droves. From what I understand, most of the people that play LG and not the other RPGA campaigns, play it because it isn't one of the "level-bump" campaigns, and because it is superior in its execution.
Samwise 05-17-07, 10:55 AM	As for your last paragraph I witnessed events like this happening and it is one of the reason I left LG but in fairness these individuals were usually friends or Triad members themselves that were doing this. The Triads had or still have their own private Yahoo group and were able to tell each other were the best magical items were and they would show up at events and grab up these certs. In all the time I was on the overall Triad discussion list and our regional Triad list, and in all the time I had a metaregional discussion list before the metaregions were actually created, I never once saw anyone say anything about what certs or items were available in any specific adventure. Since that was during the time when certs still existed, you charge is absolutely wrong. Those lists were never used as clearinghouses to cheat. So unless you have a specific Triad in mind with evidence to back up your claim, your charge is anything but fair, and there's a lot of people you should be apologizing to.
amnuxoll 05-17-07, 11:58 AM	My response to Ishorn is: Do you really exist? Until now I've never met anyone who actually plays D&D Campaigns as their only campaign.
Mocoso 05-17-07, 12:03 PM	Certs arer not the best way to do treasure... all they make is people cheat and swap them and not need them. for example, in Blackmoor, i have played three games, my character is level 2 and has like 27,000gp worht of magic because the higher level characters give them to me. I stop playing that because last game we were at evryone argues over the one magic item everyone wants.
Britt 05-17-07, 12:42 PM	1. LG will never have level bumps. 2. While there is a list of items you can go to Greyhawk or some other city to buy anytime, most of the treasure you get access to is from the adventures you play. 3. Certs are fun for players that are mature enough to handle them like adults and for people that like to try to get everything to the exclusion of everyone else. If you put the latter on a table of the former, the former no longer have fun. ARs are a necessary evil. 4. RPGA Campaign staff is NOT against the Living format. 5. I don't see how Campaign Cards relate to this at all, since we've allowed them in LG since the beginning; we just didn't have ones specifically made for LG. (edit) 6. Fastplay characters help new players get into a game faster. They have nothing to do with the D&D Campaign model.
smerwin29 05-17-07, 12:43 PM	Until now I've never met anyone who actually plays D&D Campaigns as their only campaign. Believe it or not, there are a few people who have never played LG but do play XE. I don't want to turn this into another "D&D Campaign suxxx" thread, but there are people who enjoy that model as much, or moreso, than the Living model--sometimes even BECAUSE of the reasons others dislike it. Now that XE is putting about about 10 times the number of adventures the previous D&D Campaigns put out, people can actually fill up a lot of their gaming time with a D&D Campaign if they so choose. I would never be foolish enough to say that XE is more popular than LG. I don't think it is, and I don't think it ever will be. And I don't think LG is dead, dying, or otherwise looking at any sort of negative turn. I love LG for what it is, and I am also loving XE for what it is. Shawn worker in that other campaign
Ishorn 05-17-07, 12:48 PM	My response to Ishorn is: Do you really exist? Until now I've never met anyone who actually plays D&D Campaigns as their only campaign. Yes, I do exist. I am huge Eberron fan and I have limited time to play D&D. This is why I can only play in soon to be (RIP) Mark of Heroes and Xen'drik Expeditions campaigns. I did not say I like it but there are no other choices for me an Eberron fan. I am sorry but I am not trying to start a fight with you guys I am trying to rally you guys. My point about the certs was not whether they were good or bad but that no one tried to stop the RPGA management from eliminating them. Now they are giving you guys rewards cards and character build cards just like the D&D campaigns. Someone pointed out that it would be hard to change the campaign and doing it all at once yes it would be hard. In corporate America there is something called a Kaizen. Which in Japanese means little subtle changes. I think the RPGA management is doing a Kaizen on LG. They won't change the name but it will be a shell of itself. Look at the Bright Desert mini-campaign with its pregen characters and they also offer pregens for the official LG campaign. These look very similar to what we are offered in the D&D Campaigns. I think you guys need to take a stand. I know that you guys don't see it but the RPGA management is trying to change LG to be more like the D&D campaigns. I am curious do the RPGA management push the D&D minis as hard on you guys as do on us who play MoH or Xen'driks. The two D&D campaigns that I play in are run by a couple that put on D&D mini tournaments. They receive the D&D campaigns adventures as prizes for the tournaments but no one wants the adventures. So they run them for the few people that want to play in these campaigns. When did the RPGA become the MPGA.
Britt 05-17-07, 12:54 PM	WotC pushes minis because, AFAIK, they are the most successful and profitable portion of their business.
bitznarf 05-17-07, 12:57 PM	Honestly I look at such things like the Bright Sands series and the upcoming Greyhawk Ruins series as a good thing. They appear to be trying to integrate the better parts of the D&D Campaigns into the LG framework. Those parts being continuity. This change if you want to call it that is a good thing in my opinion. As for the pregens and character build cards, we are not obligated to use them in any fashion. The pregens are there for new players, in the same way I have my own pregens for people (person so far) that I have introduced to D&D in general and LG specifically. For the most part I don't have a problem with the way the campaign leadership is taking us. As for the miniatures thing, that could be a local issue. There is no pressure where I live to buy minis from any of the event organizers or triad (that I am aware of).
Reylance 05-17-07, 12:59 PM	In all the time I was on the overall Triad discussion list and our regional Triad list, and in all the time I had a metaregional discussion list before the metaregions were actually created, I never once saw anyone say anything about what certs or items were available in any specific adventure. Since that was during the time when certs still existed, you charge is absolutely wrong. Those lists were never used as clearinghouses to cheat. So unless you have a specific Triad in mind with evidence to back up your claim, your charge is anything but fair, and there's a lot of people you should be apologizing to. Yet still, it was amazing how many people knew about a certain ring coming out of Highfolk!
kenobi65 05-17-07, 01:19 PM	My point about the certs was not whether they were good or bad but that no one tried to stop the RPGA management from eliminating them. I kinda doubt that "no one tried to stop" the change to ARs. I am quite certain that some players argued against it. But, as others have noted, the advantage that ARs have is that it reduces, if not eliminates, arguments and ill-will over treasure distribution. There are several people that I have played with in the past (in cert-based campaigns like LSJ and LA) that absolutely drive the other players nuts, because they're complete cert-hounds, and will express interest in (and demand roll-offs for) every single certed item, even if it's an item that their PCs have no use for whatsover, and which perfectly fits someone else's PC. From the standpoint of giving access to magic items, ARs work a lot like certs...but they do so equitably. Play Adventure X, you gain access to a flaming weapon...and, so does *everyone else* at your table, and, presumably, everyone else who successfully completes that adventure. Now they are giving you guys rewards cards and character build cards just like the D&D campaigns. Umm...because the LG players complained loudly for years that they were playing all this LG, earning Player Rewards points, and then being "rewarded" with a stack of cards for a campaign that they don't play. The situation got even worse when the Player Rewards cards shifted from the FR-based Legacy of the Green Regent, because many of the non-character-creation Eberron cards were tied to Action Points, which don't exist in Greyhawk. Frankly, it seems to me that RPGA HQ was a little surprised by how ****** this was making the LG player base, and the new LG-specific cards pretty clearly (to me, anyway) represent more of a "give the players what they're asking for", than trying to slowly make LG more like the other campaigns. Look at the Bright Desert mini-campaign with its pregen characters and they also offer pregens for the official LG campaign. As others have already noted...the pregens are *not* mandatory, and I don't think I've seen more than one or two ever even used. I think having pregens available is just a smart thing, to make it easier for complete novices to get up and running in *any* campaign. I know that several of the Triads have had region-specific pregens available for some time.
vvincent 05-17-07, 01:20 PM	Yet still, it was amazing how many people knew about a certain ring coming out of Highfolk! At the time, GenCon was held in Milwaukee - which probably means that many people were around to play some Highfolk events at that time. Much like people come early to play at the Verbobonc PreGenCon Madness. Word of mouth was probably sufficient for people to hear about it. I know that craploads of people from other regions seem to know about our special goodies. Also - keep in mind that it's possible for people to fradulent create copies of certs (through the use of scanners, Photoshop, etc) - so it's also likely that people just made copies of certs, gave them out, and mass distributed them to all of their friends. This sort of thing still happens today with ARs. Vernon L. Vincent
pedr 05-17-07, 01:25 PM	I might be off-base here, but I have a suspicion that the 'HQ hates LG' impression is firstly based on interaction with former RPGA staff and more importantly a misinterpretation of people implying that there will never be another LG. I have no insider knowledge whatsoever, but I imagine that HQ looks at the complex network of volunteers, rules, fingers-in-pies and whatnot that goes to make up LG and thinks: "It's great that it's a success, but my goodness isn't it a lot of work: We could never manage to run two of those at once... and, frankly, if it were to die a freak death we'd mourn it like crazy but replace it with something different." As an aside, on the fast-plays, I think that LG would benefit enormously from looser restrictions on fastplays: either a 'take one for the team' system or (far less controversially) allow rebuilding after the first adventure so that new players can pick up a fastplay and play it, and also get to create a character without having to lose that first adventure's rewards.
Genghis Cohen 05-17-07, 08:56 PM	...I stated that the RPGA management wished that the Living Campaigns would go away...once I discovered the rewards cards and character build cards it is proof that the end is coming...Why would the RPGA invest resources into something that they want to go away?
Munchausen 05-17-07, 11:41 PM	Well, I have played Living Green Regent along time ago, and really was not that impressed with how certs/rpga was done. So we did many years of home based games. Then decided to try RPGA again with Greyhawk a few years ago and really liked the feel of it. Now my wife and I have moved to Vegas from WA state and are really into LG and have great players/DM's here in Sin City. Also we have played Eberron since it came out and it is different and we really have liked it. We knew about MoH but no one ran MoH games. Then Xen'drik came out and the idea I thought was really great. We played a few games and somthing about it did not feel just quite right. Then of course they did the Level bumps and I despise Lvl bumps.. it take alot out of the Roleplaying part of the game. Now If Wotc/RPGA decided to treat Eberron like LG, then i would bet that Eberron would be just as popular as LG. But then games might be popular in one area, and not in another.
Hariman 05-18-07, 01:15 AM	Why would the RPGA invest resources into something that they want to go away? Because people play it avidly? Because it attracts new members to the RPGA? Because it attracts players and thus sells product? Because they themselves play LG games and probably enjoy them? Because that was a rhetorical question and the RPGA doesn't want LG to go away?
GenghisBob 05-18-07, 04:02 AM	I Like Certs. They work in Living Arcanis, well becasue most of the players are consdierate and dont usually fight. Every table deals with the distribution differntly. The market place for buying things, Trading and certing crafted items is a big hit, because you can only do it at conventions. And it gets people of the butt and of to cons and interactives, rather than playing games in Home Play. If you are limited to the odd sub powerfull cert and only buying the wands/potions/scrolls 750 or less, then that is mighty powerful incentive to get to a con. LG, the certs just did not work, and while i like them. they were not a success.
Mocoso 05-18-07, 09:43 AM	I Like Certs. They work in Living Arcanis, well becasue most of the players are consdierate and dont usually fight. Every table deals with the distribution differntly. rofl you need to come play down here! I stopped playing LA becaus everyone fought over the certs. It's dumb too, because someone will grab something thinking it will be a cert and whoever holds it wins it.
amnuxoll 05-18-07, 10:46 AM	Yes, I do exist. <snip> I am sorry but I am not trying to start a fight with you guys I am trying to rally you guys. <snip> I think the RPGA management is doing a Kaizen on LG. They won't change the name but it will be a shell of itself. Ishorn: I never intended to sound antagonistic, just incredulous. In sooth, I'm kind of glad you do exist. =) I want you to rest assured that LG is not being slowly transformed into D&D campaigns. We do occasionally borrow a good idea or two from that format (like the campaign cards and fast play characters) but as someone who has played in both types I am pretty certain that LG is status quo. :AMN:
Morgen 05-18-07, 12:43 PM	We're guessing that LG will probably go under about 2008 when D&D 4.0 comes out. So we're guessing at least. I'd play Living Eberron like so hard. :3
Timlagor 05-18-07, 01:13 PM	1) I don't think D&D4 is coming until 2009 2) I don't think LG will die when it does. Living Eberron would be cool but wouldn't be enough to kill LG. I don't think cutting the "cheques" from WotC would kill it either... denying use of the IP would though.
Ishorn 05-18-07, 02:31 PM	I do not want LG to die. I would love to see a Living Eberron that could exist with LG. I am hoping you guys are right. I only wish the best for LG but seeing the official rewards and character build cards has put a scare in me.
kenobi65 05-18-07, 02:48 PM	I only wish the best for LG but seeing the official rewards and character build cards has put a scare in me. Honestly, I think that Ian and Chris have heard enough complaining about the D&D Campaigns system...and enough threats from loyal LG players...that they have to realize that trying to make LG follow the D&D Campaigns model would decimate the player base. Also, keep in mind that Stephen Radney-MacFarland was one of the prime architects (and proponents) of the D&D Campaigns model...and he's not there any longer. Chris Tulach (his replacement) was LG Circle, and Highfolk Triad before that, and I think he gets it.
Redfist 05-18-07, 04:04 PM	Agreed - I'm optimisstic that LG will remain relatively unchanged. If LG were to "go away", so would my book buying habit. ;)
Ishorn 05-18-07, 06:26 PM	I want to tell you guys I have always thought that the Living Campaigns were the best things to happen to D&D. They introduced new players to the game that probably would never consider playing. I know this because when I played LC & LG in one my areas local gaming stores the RPGA group I played with would always have people stop and ask questions about the game. Some of them would join in and usually become regular players. We had at least 4 tables going at our monthly games day. The group I play MoH or Xen'driks with have not had this experience. We just do not have any luck interesting people in these campaigns.
GenghisBob 05-18-07, 06:38 PM	rofl you need to come play down here! I stopped playing LA becaus everyone fought over the certs. It's dumb too, because someone will grab something thinking it will be a cert and whoever holds it wins it. Thats kind of sad. Most games i play we sell everything, every one gets gold and then those that really want the cert Toss for it and then buy it back at half. Very civilised and not much angst. TU costs for selling still get distributed evenly. Fighting over certs was why LG Certs sucked. I guess not every one plays well with others.
GrahamWills 05-21-07, 01:04 PM	I played Living Force, which used certs. It worked pretty well -- it is certainly more atmospheric, but it did introduce tension. I recall one session where two players had a permit for a heavy blaster, and one was available, and a player who had NO permit won the cert. Kind of annoying. However, Living Force was much more cinematic and story-driven then LG. Players were more focused on building genre-correct characters. In LG I can see how the focus on combat-effectiveness would make certs a serious issue. The AR system works much better. My opinion. - Graham Wills
Timlagor 05-21-07, 07:13 PM	I'd think that having multiple lower-value certs at each table would relieve the tension somewhat. I think there was more than one problem with Certs in LG at the beginning.
Puggle Halfwine 05-21-07, 08:08 PM	As for your last paragraph I witnessed events like this happening and it is one of the reason I left LG but in fairness these individuals were usually friends or Triad members themselves that were doing this. The Triads had or still have their own private Yahoo group and were able to tell each other were the best magical items were and they would show up at events and grab up these certs. In my experience of Living Greyhawk (started in 594, I've played pretty much every available module since), as an author (with a handful of mods to my name), as someone who attends "pretty much every big con" here in Australia and as someone who is compulsively subscribed to every mailing list I can get my grubby hands on (but none I shouldn't be on)... I have found that Triad members, or at least the Triad members we have here in Australia, are far and away the most ethical players I have ever encountered. Just thinking back for a moment, I can't think of a single instance where a Triad member hasn't done the fair and right thing in any particular instance, nor a single instance where a Triad member has done anything "grey", let alone outright cheated. I can't speak for your regional triad, of course, but that's how I've found ours.
rutrow424 05-23-07, 06:11 PM	I'd think that having multiple lower-value certs at each table would relieve the tension somewhat. I think there was more than one problem with Certs in LG at the beginning. The problem with certs in early LG was always tied to player ethics/trust and the low gold received in the mods. If there were only a 6 low value items (1st level potions or scrolls), no problem in general. However, many mods would have 1-2 low value certs and 1 big ticket item (sword of the rogue, Ripper from Tristor, even a +1 weapon). A player could be within his rights to make a claim on that item, even if his PC could not use it, because it could be worth X in gp to his PC (getting a 2000 gp item or your share of 40 gp...hmm). Or, the player could just be a jerk who wanted everything and felt he could bully his way to getting the best stuff. Generally everything worked out ok with certs, but often it did not and could not be expected to. This doesn't even touch upon cheating. The AR system is much better, even if it sometimes doesn't feel like it.
Sieylianna 05-23-07, 07:07 PM	Certs work better in a home group where there is an incentive to make sure everything is divided fairly. Once you move away from that you are at the mercy of the maturity of the various players, which eventually results in hard feelings. Ed
The_Jester 05-24-07, 10:24 AM	1) I don't think D&D4 is coming until 2009 I'm betting 2010 or 2011 at the earliest. 2009 is probably when we'll see reprinted or revised versions of the core books. Revised 3.5 with errata and clarification and the like. New covers and pictures and taking in feedback from 4 years of play. Like the black-bordered books released for 2nd around when WotC came in. 2) I don't think LG will die when it does. It survived the 3.0 -> 3.5 change. Might be a pain though to convert characters, might be a retirement or soft reboot... Living Eberron would be cool but wouldn't be enough to kill LG. Naw, Eberron is already a living setting though published products. Greyhawk lives through the players.
LGMoses 05-25-07, 02:14 AM	Ahhh, its good to be back on forums. i've missed it all so much: the arguments, the flaming, and the doomsayer is a nice touch. If only he had said something like, "THE END IS NIGH GREYHAWKERS! THE END IS NIGH" or something else really dramatic. Ahhh, this is fun
Cookie Lee 05-25-07, 01:41 PM	Not to fan the flames, and no it isn't a sign that LG is finished, but what is the difference between level bumps and a series of Uber-Mods designed to get a character from level 1 to a level appropriate to play a published adventure. The bootstrap style of play suggested by the attempt to sell copies of Dungeons of Castle Greyhawk product that will take one from 1 to around 10 in less than a year isn't a bump but it sure seems like a bounce. COOKIE LEE
Britt 05-25-07, 01:58 PM	It's an attempt to increase play opportunities with minimal staff effort and at the same time drive sales. It's quite ingenious really.
bitznarf 05-25-07, 02:01 PM	Personally I think its great. We get to use the published WotC adventures within the campaign created by us with minimal fuss. Where's the problem?
_metz_ 05-25-07, 02:11 PM	no to mention such modules use up all your TUs so it isn't the same as a level bump - its the only adventure that PC gets, and you still earn your xp by doing 'stuff'. Also they are fun :)
dkay807 05-25-07, 02:28 PM	It's an attempt to increase play opportunities with minimal staff effort and at the same time drive sales. It's quite ingenious really. Agreed. It's Win/Win/Win. Now if only those adventures could get adapted more quickly... ...still anxiously awaiting Demonweb Pits.
Hariman 05-25-07, 09:01 PM	no to mention such modules use up all your TUs so it isn't the same as a level bump - its the only adventure that PC gets, and you still earn your xp by doing 'stuff'. Also they are fun :) Everybody in my area that has played or is playing Red Hand says that it is tough, but loads of fun.