Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LGMoses 01-04-07, 02:07 AM	Seriously, how did they get into the Greyhawk world?
frupton 01-04-07, 02:16 AM	The stork brings them. Your parents will explain more about this to you when you're a little older.
DroidTrooper 01-04-07, 02:46 AM	I don't claim to be any Greyhawk knowledge buff, as your question could just as easily be where did the quarterstaff or sword come from. If I was to adlib a knowledge history check I'd suggest one of two sources. Chains and lengths of chain came into being as devices that are in essence very sturdy ropes. They tend to serve in places where lighter materials (hemp ropes) would decay such as an anchor line on a boat. Also they have a higher tension/tensil? (resistance to breaking by being pulled from both ends) strength, making them more suited toward lifting heavy objects (draw bridges etc.) But most importantly to their devolpment as weapons is that chains were used as durable and reusable restraining devices on slaves. As chains are generally considered superior to rope as a restraint device. Slaves often revolt, well at least they try to escape, or they squabble amungst themselves for that crust of bread, and when they do they are often forces to use weapons at hand. As the chains used to bind them made for better weapons then rocks, and so the slaves used them as whip-like weapons/swinging them around in circles. Also the length of chain as a weapon obtained popularity within gladitoral areas. The spiked chain is a refinement of the length of chain used in such a method. Of course the true orgin of the chain as a weapon in Greyhawk probably has its root with human(oid)s trying to emulate Kytons. Or human(oid)s making packs with Kyton or other indenties which enlisted kytons.
Dr.Cornelius 01-04-07, 03:00 AM	Seriously, how did they get into the Greyhawk world? When the guys at WotC were writing 3rd Edition someone said: Wouldn't it be cool to have a weapon that threatens 5' and 10'? Then the next guy said: I can't think of a standard weapon that would do that - how about something off the wall like a collapsable spear, or a War Yo-Yo, or... Second developer: Wait! I've got it - a chain. A spiked chain. Third developer: Sounds exotic... Fourth developer: Well, we can just make it a feat. And thus was born the Spiked Chain.
Dr.Cornelius 01-04-07, 03:07 AM	Duplicate post deleted.
Lupo 01-04-07, 04:22 AM	Seriously, how did they get into the Greyhawk world? i might be wrong - at work without all the books - but i think they appeared first in the 2nd edition suplement "oriental adventures", i will check it :) ciao martin m.
rockondon 01-04-07, 05:38 AM	mommy chain and daddy chain twisted around each other and had some fun. Pretty soon mommy chain had a link fall off and before you know it...a baby chain is born
Loignar 01-04-07, 07:44 AM	I think I know where you are going with this, and there is no region that allows spiked chain as a martial instead of exotic weapon.
LGMoses 01-04-07, 02:39 PM	I think I know where you are going with this, and there is no region that allows spiked chain as a martial instead of exotic weapon. I'm not going anywhere with this really. Just curious to learn more about the weapon and its origins. People are always whining about how its broken and stuff. I just wanted a good discussion of the spiked chain.
kenobi65 01-04-07, 02:55 PM	I'm not going anywhere with this really. Just curious to learn more about the weapon and its origins. People are always whining about how its broken and stuff. I just wanted a good discussion of the spiked chain. I've read that there's a RL Asian weapon that's not dissimilar (and is probably the Oriental Adventures weapon that Lupo refers to), but from what I've read, the majority view is that the 3E/3.5 weapon and its abilities are pretty much fictional. Spiked chain got into Greyhawk because all of the PHB weapons did, regardless of whether there was a specific Oerthian origin point for them. Greyhawk lacks an "Asian" region, but the PHB monk weapons (and, for that matter, the monk itself) made it in. One of my complaints is that the illustration in the PHB really makes it look like a double weapon, and I've seen more than a few players who were convinced that it was one, due to the illustration (however, it isn't).
LGMoses 01-04-07, 02:58 PM	I've read that there's a RL Asian weapon that's not dissimilar (and is probably the Oriental Adventures weapon that Lupo refers to), but from what I've read, the majority view is that the 3E/3.5 weapon and its abilities are pretty much fictional. Spiked chain got into Greyhawk because all of the PHB weapons did, regardless of whether there was a specific Oerthian origin point for them. Greyhawk lacks an "Asian" region, but the PHB monk weapons (and, for that matter, the monk itself) made it in. One of my complaints is that the illustration in the PHB really makes it look like a double weapon, and I've seen more than a few players who were convinced that it was one, due to the illustration (however, it isn't). I know, i was wondering if it could be used as a double weapon
kenobi65 01-04-07, 03:00 PM	I know, i was wondering if it could be used as a double weapon No, it can't. It lacks the "double weapon" footnote in its entry in the PHB (compare its footnote, which is "reach weapon", to all the other two-handed exotic melee weapons in that table, which are all footnoted as "double weapon").
kenobi65 01-04-07, 03:03 PM	People are always whining about how its broken and stuff. Consider: 1) It's the only melee reach weapon in the PHB that also allows you to threaten opponents who are 5' away from you. 2) It can be used for trip attempts, and also gives a bonus for disarm attempts. 3) Despite being a two-handed weapon, you can use Weapon Finesse with it. In the minds of many, all of that in one package = too good.
Howie23 01-04-07, 03:17 PM	Just curious to learn more about the weapon and its origins. It has no in-campaign origin or any raison d'etre other than the perceived coolness factor. David
LGMoses 01-04-07, 03:38 PM	Consider: 1) It's the only melee reach weapon in the PHB that also allows you to threaten opponents who are 5' away from you. 2) It can be used for trip attempts, and also gives a bonus for disarm attempts. 3) Despite being a two-handed weapon, you can use Weapon Finesse with it. In the minds of many, all of that in one package = too good. yeah, its a little much but u have to take a feat for it atleast. I've never had a character use one though I'm thinking about making a fiter i can take into the Suel Arcanamach PrC from Complete Arcane and giving him one but I'd only do that if I encountered one in a mod or something. I'm equally toying with the idea of a two bladed sword or some other nonsense but I may just decide to leave it alone.
budleiser 01-04-07, 03:46 PM	yeah, its a little much but u have to take a feat for it atleast. I've never had a character use one though I'm thinking about making a fiter i can take into the Suel Arcanamach PrC from Complete Arcane and giving him one but I'd only do that if I encountered one in a mod or something. I'm equally toying with the idea of a two bladed sword or some other nonsense but I may just decide to leave it alone. You don't NEED a feat, you could just take -4. My character did, taking combat reflexes first then EWP later. Others can carry it just for AOO's then drop it when it comes to their turn. Monks carry it for AOO's then flurry with elbows and knees on their turn.
kenobi65 01-04-07, 04:15 PM	I'm equally toying with the idea of a two bladed sword or some other nonsense but I may just decide to leave it alone. While you have to spend a feat there for proficiency, too, if you can get over the mental image of Darth Maul, the two-bladed sword is arguably the best weapon for TWF. - It's the easiest, and maybe only, way that I can think of to be able to do d8 damage with a light weapon in your off hand. (Well, maybe you could do it with Monkey Grip and a large shortsword or something, but there's another -2 to hit, and access issues.) - As it's a double weapon, feats like Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization count for both hands.
NiTessine 01-04-07, 05:03 PM	I know, i was wondering if it could be used as a double weapon No, although it should perhaps be noted that this was a class feature of the Sword and Fist prestige class Master of Chains. As a free action, it could switch grips on the spiked chain and use it as a double weapon instead of a reach weapon. It is a cause of immeasurable distress for me that the Master of Chains, along with its most flavourful companions, the Lasher and the Ghostwalker, never made it into 3.5.
LGMoses 01-04-07, 05:05 PM	While you have to spend a feat there for proficiency, too, if you can get over the mental image of Darth Maul, the two-bladed sword is arguably the best weapon for TWF. - It's the easiest, and maybe only, way that I can think of to be able to do d8 damage with a light weapon in your off hand. (Well, maybe you could do it with Monkey Grip and a large shortsword or something, but there's another -2 to hit, and access issues.) - As it's a double weapon, feats like Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization count for both hands. yeah, darth maul is why I jumped to looking at the spiked chain b4 the two bladed sword.
LachlarlanIII 01-04-07, 05:34 PM	It has no in-campaign origin or any raison d'etre other than the perceived coolness factor. David If no reason on the material plane can be found, the only logical solution is that it came from planar travelers. Or cookie monsters... Either way.
kenobi65 01-04-07, 05:54 PM	If no reason on the material plane can be found, the only logical solution is that it came from planar travelers. Or cookie monsters... Either way. Some sages indicate it originated on the Elemental Plane of Cheese. ;)
bhale187 01-04-07, 09:22 PM	I'd say the elemental plane of cheese is the best guess. The only martial arts weapon I know of that is even close is the "KYOKETSU SHOGE". It is a very small chain or sometimes a rope with a L shaped set of blade on the end.
LGMoses 01-04-07, 09:54 PM	Some sages indicate it originated on the Elemental Plane of Cheese. ;) i wonder if there are any mods that give access to the planar travel tuning fork for that plane?...
MatBlack 01-05-07, 12:30 AM	No, it can't. It lacks the "double weapon" footnote in its entry in the PHB (compare its footnote, which is "reach weapon", to all the other two-handed exotic melee weapons in that table, which are all footnoted as "double weapon"). while it has nothing to do with the LG campaign, i've worked up some house rules for spiked chain in my home games. a proficient wielder can use a spiked chain as either a two-handed reach weapon (threatens only at 10 feet, not 5), or a double weapon without reach. switching between these options is a swift action. Weapon Finesse can only be used with the spiked chain while it is being wielded as a double weapon, and only by a proficient wielder. if the wielder of a spiked chain is not proficient and rolls a natural 1 on an attack roll, he must make a Reflex save (DC 20). failure on the save results in the user being tripped and losing any further attacks in the round. frankly, i think the changes make the weapon much more interesting.
clannagh 01-05-07, 12:34 AM	the spike chain seems to be a fictionalised version of a manga style orietal weapon i have used spiked chains a bit and would make the following comments .. - the threaten adjoining squares feature rarely comes into play you nearly always whack things or trip them at 10' - weapon finesse can be a trap .. a dex based PC is a usually too low in strength to trip well even with the feat - a good chain fighter is about battlefield control and is very feat intensive. You general want chain proficiency, expertise, power attack, disarm, improved trip, combat reflexes, deft opportunist. Its good to also have chain focus for exotic weapon master flurry and the dodge/mobility/spring/whilrlwind track as well. - a lot of the "overpowered" reactions come from misuse of chains, for example its not possible to trip someone standing from prone as an AoO and movement through several squares only provokes once even with combat reflexes.