Who is Evard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTimePost
Genghis Cohen

01-16-07, 07:14 PM
Rather than hijack another thread, we might want to discuss who Evard is. With Bissel's CY 595 mods retired, we can discuss an amazing story arc. The Bissel Triad and authors should be proud of what they created.

So who is Evard? Most people will answer that "he is an evil necromancer" and they would be wrong.

I'll get some of these details wrong, so I welcome correction, clarifications and greater details from Bisselites.

Evard the Necromancer seized control of Bissel's capital, Thornward. An opposition quickly emerged. It was led by Evard's sister, Lady Saralind Markavan.

I played the following three mods (and others) at AnonyCon 2005.

In BIS5-04 Uncovered Truths we learn that Evard created a laboratory to produce Evard clones. The first clone was very powerful, but that clone had a free will. This clone did not become an evil necromancer. This clone was Lady Saralind Markavan.

In BIS5-07 Evard we help prepare for the Battle of Thornward by doing something on a another plane. I don't remember most of the details. I do remember that as we were close to reentering the Prime Material plane, we discovered a quasi-dead paladin left trapped on that plane. Before he is released to die, we discover who that this paladin of Heironeous was left to die by his evil sister many years before. This paladin's name was Evard and his evil sister was Saralind. Saralind took her brother's name, and grew to great power.

The day after I played BIS5-07 Evard, we played BIS5-IN4 Siege of Thornward. We defeated Evard in this interactive. What happened to Evard herself? She wielded a staff with the ability to use a retributive strike, and she used that ability. She was gone, and crater was left in her wake.

Months later, I asked one of the Bissel triad members about that retributive strike. He said that there was a 50/50 chance that Evard was on another plane or destroyed. They planned on actually rolling the dice to determine this, but had not done so at that time.

So, who is or was Evard? You have a few choices. Either Evard was a man and a paladin of Heironeous, or Evard was (or still is) a woman and an evil necromancer.
ShinAkuma2

01-16-07, 10:49 PM
So I assume the Black Tentacles spell was created by the Paladin.

:doh: Or maybe not.
Britt

01-16-07, 11:01 PM
AFAIK, Evard is a male necromancer.
gomeztoo

01-17-07, 04:01 AM
Dungeon (#107) once did an article on Evard (got it at home somewhere), who he was, and what he did. He is a male wizard (not sure of he was necromancer, ahve to look that up). Not a paladin and not a girl. I think you are dealing with entirely different people or possibly simulacra or something.

From Wikipedia (info derived from the Dungeon article):
Evard, also known as Evard the Black, is an archmage responsible for developing such spells as Evard's Black Tentacles. Evard is known to operate from the Sheldomar Valley, where he deals as an information broker. He is an enemy of Mordenkainen.
Fleetfang

01-17-07, 11:40 AM
I'd have to go with Gomez and the fine folks at Paizo. Dragon 107 did a Critical Threat on Evard in that issue, providing his stats, equipment, some background.

While he's a powerful archmage, he's also the head of an insidious web of informants and spies. I really enjoyed the couple pages on him that there were, and have used him in a home game to great effect.

I think the Bissel mods must have just been a crazy coincidence. Like running into two completely different people who both happen to be named John Smith. :)
Drezden

01-17-07, 12:04 PM
I don't think the Bissel mods were a "coincidence" at all. Evard the evil villain was the same Evard profiled by Wotc. However, the Bissel Triad chose to make "his" whole identity a sham - that he was really a she. But they were talking about the same Evard. So as far as Living Greyhawk goes, Evard was actually a woman who stole her brother's name, etc. For people who don't play LG, they can ignore LG and keep Evard as a man.

Daren
ShinAkuma2

01-17-07, 01:04 PM
Why does it matter if Evard is a man or a woman, especially since Evard could easily appear as whatever he wanted? He/She is a spellcaster, remember? A simple Alter Self makes Evard appear however he/she wishes.

The male Evard talked about in the past is likely the same female Evard we know and love, using a transmutation/illusion spell to hide her identity, or perhaps even to appear as the paladin known as Evard.

[edit]Now that I think of it, this is just like Samus Aran. Even the manual to the first game, Samus was described in the masculine. By now, however, everyone knows Samus is a woman. Would you have seen female Samus, whether in-game or in a picture, and said, "Mm, nope, the manual says Samus is a guy, so this must be a different person that happens to have the same name."
Arvagor

01-17-07, 03:19 PM
Now that I think of it, this is just like Samus Aran.
Who the *bleep* is Samus Aran???
Crazy Boro

01-17-07, 03:36 PM
Who the *bleep* is Samus Aran???

The heroine for the Metroid game series for the Nintendo systems.
ShinAkuma2

01-17-07, 03:41 PM
Who the *bleep* is Samus Aran???

You're sitting in front of a computer, aren't you? Google or Wikipedia is right at your fingertips, Mr. Pottymouth.
Mortepierre

01-17-07, 05:18 PM
the Bissel Triad chose to make "his" whole identity a sham - that he was really a she. But they were talking about the same Evard. So as far as Living Greyhawk goes, Evard was actually a woman who stole her brother's name, etc. For people who don't play LG, they can ignore LG and keep Evard as a man

While I hate restricting creativity, I don't see this as a good move. A lot of people play LG because of their love for the WoG. Usually, WoG's fans dislike people tampering with the oh-so-mighty "canon" lore (assuming they can agree on what is and isn't canon in the first place...)

Given Evard was stated in Dungeon and given what is published in Dungeon is considered official (not to mention the fact that Evard had already been described in previous editions as a male), having one region change this and say "we published mods. about it, so you have to go along with our version from now on" will only serve to alienate others. Not to mention that it opens the door to worse possibilities.

Let's say, for instance, that my region's triad suddenly decides that Otiluke didn't die during the signing of the GH's Treaty. They bring him back under one form or another for a local story arc. It basically negates the tragedy of a significant event that shaped the past 12 years of WoG.

I think that if that kind of stunt became commonplace in LG, it would destroy the mystic of the setting. But that's just me.. :allalone:
kenobi65

01-17-07, 05:26 PM
I am Evard!

And Spartacus! Agador Spartacus!
ShinAkuma2

01-17-07, 06:01 PM
Given Evard was stated in Dungeon and given what is published in Dungeon is considered official (not to mention the fact that Evard had already been described in previous editions as a male), having one region change this and say "we published mods. about it, so you have to go along with our version from now on" will only serve to alienate others. Not to mention that it opens the door to worse possibilities.

Seriously, it's so easily explained by spellcasting capabilities that it's not worth debating.

A Tattooed Monk with the Chameleon tattoo can keep himself Alter Self'd in whatever humanoid race and gender he wants all day, given at least 7 levels. I have a Male Half-Orc that could eventually convince the world he's a female Elf, once he has 24-hour capability.

It's simply not worth arguing.
NiTessine

01-17-07, 07:04 PM
Seriously, it's so easily explained by spellcasting capabilities that it's not worth debating.

A Tattooed Monk with the Chameleon tattoo can keep himself Alter Self'd in whatever humanoid race and gender he wants all day, given at least 7 levels. I have a Male Half-Orc that could eventually convince the world he's a female Elf, once he has 24-hour capability.

It's simply not worth arguing.
The point isn't whether it's doable for a wizard of his capabilities. He's powerful enough to pull it off, no question. It's whether it should have been done. Running counter to established lore, especially in such a tacky manner, devalues the canon. While not quite a retcon, I see that as an unnecessary change and the story as one better told with an original NPC.
Britt

01-17-07, 07:08 PM
The beauty is that everything could be exactly the same as before. Just go on wondering who exactly Evard is, which one is the real one, and if the real one is even the sex or class you saw them as.
Arvagor

01-18-07, 12:38 AM
You're sitting in front of a computer, aren't you? Google or Wikipedia is right at your fingertips, Mr. Pottymouth.The tone, if it wasn't obvious, was somewhat in jest -- many people post comments such as that automatically assuming that everyone else reading their post knows everything about every anime filmed, every videogame made, etc.

And at the time I posted that, no, I could not Google or Wiki the term, as those sites were blocked from the location where I was located (and WotC isn't -- go figure...)
paigeoliver

01-18-07, 12:47 AM
Double checking both sources mentioned and it appears that the Evard article is in DUNGEON 107 and NOT in Dragon 107.

What are the other sources for this character. I can't seem to find him mentioned anywhere in the usual 1st/2nd edition Greyhawk sources aside from the name of the spell.
Britt

01-18-07, 12:47 AM
And at the time I posted that, no, I could not Google or Wiki the term, as those sites were blocked from the location where I was located (and WotC isn't -- go figure...)
You know, that possibility crossed my mind. But then I thought, that would be ridiculous. Go figure :p
Arvagor

01-18-07, 12:58 AM
You know, that possibility crossed my mind. But then I thought, that would be ridiculous. Go figure :pWell, clarification -- www.wizards.com is blocked, but boards1.wizards.com is not -- again, there's that "go figure" ;)
copper_wyrmling

01-18-07, 01:21 AM
I played those Bissel mods too! (just after moving to the region and just before they retired) Note that the necromancer calling him/herself Evard always appeared male except when he/she was interrogating the PCs in the privacy of his/her dungeons, when he/she appeared like an older and nastier version of Lady Saralind (a good-aligned Bissel NPC aristocrat, who we're fairly sure is actually female).

Certainly, the *implied* story was that Evard and Saralind were siblings, Saralind murdered her brother and stole his identity, then had a clone made of herself, who believed herself to be "Saralind, sister of Evard the necromancer". It's pretty much up to the PCs how much of that they think is true, and how much was faked for their benefit ;) My dervish just knows that he has the Sword of Evard and it radiates Strong Good...
Mortepierre

01-18-07, 04:42 AM
What are the other sources for this character. I can't seem to find him mentioned anywhere in the usual 1st/2nd edition Greyhawk sources aside from the name of the spell.

DRG#68 Pg#24
DRG#82 Pg#57
LGG Pg#33
LGJ#0 Pg#9
(thank you JZ!)

I could add that the big bad guy in Kenzer&Co's Tempest's Gate comics was strongly hinted as being Evard (and, frankly, the story was so good it should become canon)
DuctShuiTengu

01-21-07, 01:11 AM
I played those Bissel mods too! (just after moving to the region and just before they retired) Note that the necromancer calling him/herself Evard always appeared male except when he/she was interrogating the PCs in the privacy of his/her dungeons, when he/she appeared like an older and nastier version of Lady Saralind (a good-aligned Bissel NPC aristocrat, who we're fairly sure is actually female).

Certainly, the *implied* story was that Evard and Saralind were siblings, Saralind murdered her brother and stole his identity, then had a clone made of herself, who believed herself to be "Saralind, sister of Evard the necromancer". It's pretty much up to the PCs how much of that they think is true, and how much was faked for their benefit ;) My dervish just knows that he has the Sword of Evard and it radiates Strong Good...

My explanation for it (in as much as it matters - I.E. not at all) would be something as follows (with smileys for added clarity):

Evard was Evard the necromancer :emp: . As Evard the necromancer :emp: , he seized control of Bissel's capital, Thornward. Since not enough of the populace was willing to fall in line and just do what he told them to, Evard created "Lady Saralind Markavan" :angel: his "sister" (actual seperate thingy, or just an illusion cast on the original Evard? who knows?) to rally the various groups that were opposing him as Evard the necromancer :emp: , thereby ensuring that both everyone following him and everyone trying to stop him were all really working for him. (And if a few of them had to kill each other to maintain the illusion, oh well.)

But those meddling adventurers :detect: managed to figure out that "Saralind" :angelhide wasn't really a different person from Evard the necromancer :emp: , so he quickly threw together the "no really, I'm the good clone" bit to get people to keep following "her."

Unfortunately for Evard, those meddling adventurers :detect: kept it up and the whole "I'm the good clone" story (which he hadn't put that much effort into in the first place) started to fall appart. So, he pull a a bait and switch, inventing Evard the Paladin of Heironious :fight!: and "revealing" that Evard the necromancer :emp: is really Saralind the necromancer :emp: . And thus, anyone wanting to oppose Evard/Saralind the necromancer :emp: should once again follow him.

Sadly, he did a little too good a job of leaving Evard the Paladin of Heironious :fight!: to die, so that fell through and he wasn't able to play both sides anymore.
Crazy Boro

01-21-07, 01:55 AM
Sadly, he did a little too good a job of leaving Evard the Paladin of Heironious :fight!: to die, so that fell through and he wasn't able to play both sides anymore.

Well, from what I understood by playing it was that "Evard" actually didn't leave him there to die. The paladin Evard was a prisoner that was kept locked away. He called out to the PCs through what little strength he had left to come help him. The PCs found him and were asked to put him out of his misery and never to disturb his remains.