Who to complain to? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Who to complain to? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
magebeast
05-06-07, 12:49 PM I want to complain to whoever is in charge of core mods about a bad rules item in a recent core mod. Who should I send an e-mail to?
Dr.Cornelius
05-06-07, 02:44 PM Best of luck - let us know if you get a response.
Samwise
05-06-07, 02:50 PM You email Creighton Broadhurst, Circle member for the Core.
bhale187
05-06-07, 04:03 PM Before you do that, take a moment to make sure you read the module correctly. Then try contacting the module writer, and make him/her aware of the problem.
I'm not suggesting that writers don't make mistakes, but occasionally the GM misinterprets things, and sometimes it is just an oversite on the writers part.
If you are sure the mod is wrong and the writer refuses to do anything to fix the problem, then it's time to complain.
magebeast
05-06-07, 05:24 PM Before you do that, take a moment to make sure you read the module correctly. Then try contacting the module writer, and make him/her aware of the problem.
I'm not suggesting that writers don't make mistakes, but occasionally the GM misinterprets things, and sometimes it is just an oversite on the writers part.
If you are sure the mod is wrong and the writer refuses to do anything to fix the problem, then it's time to complain.

No I'm pretty sure you can't make potions out of 4th level spells that's pretty clear.

EDIT: Hey it turns out that the Author was a different circle member. E-mailed!
awroe
05-06-07, 06:14 PM No I'm pretty sure you can't make potions out of 4th level spells that's pretty clear.

Ah, I saw the same thing and was wondering if it was correct. Looks like you beat me to it.
Samwise
05-06-07, 06:54 PM And this issue is already known. I've mentioned it to Creighton myself.
magebeast
05-06-07, 07:08 PM And this issue is already known. I've mentioned it to Creighton myself.

That's fine! Perhaps if we're irritating enough something that simple won't make it past the review process.
Samwise
05-06-07, 07:33 PM That's fine! Perhaps if we're irritating enough something that simple won't make it past the review process.

Not really. Mistakes are mistakes and they happen, however simple or complex the rules regarding it may be. Reporting them can help get them cleared up, but being irritating doesn't reduce the occurrence.
magebeast
05-06-07, 08:57 PM Not really. Mistakes are mistakes and they happen, however simple or complex the rules regarding it may be. Reporting them can help get them cleared up, but being irritating doesn't reduce the occurrence.

Well, I was respectful actually, not irritating - although I realize that's what it sounded like. But I can only assume that a certain volume of complaints, however respectful, might begin to wear and perhaps provide some motivation.
Samwise
05-06-07, 09:25 PM Well, I was respectful actually, not irritating - although I realize that's what it sounded like. But I can only assume that a certain volume of complaints, however respectful, might begin to wear and perhaps provide some motivation.

Yes there is a certain volume that wears and provides motivation.
That volume is: One.
smerwin29
05-06-07, 09:36 PM I think the issue is this: you assume that problems and mistakes that get into adventures are caused by a lack of motivation. I am an editor by trade, and even with a dozen people getting paid a lot of money to review or edit something, errors still slide through. For a volunteer organization working on a much more hectic and less structured framework, the RPGA actually does a pretty good job in terms of getting a great deal of quality content to the players.

Are there problems and mistakes that end up in the final product? Absolutely. Is it because of laziness or a lack of motivation? Maybe in a few instances, but on the whole I think it is more an issue of time and necessity.

As an author and editor, I do appreciate feedback and people letting me know when there is a problem. I can only hope that other writers and editors are open to feedback and learn from mistakes as well. And I don't think your post was disrespectful. But I don't think a call for people to be irritating is likely to help anyone. It will just dissuade potential writers from taking the plunge for fear of getting abused.
magebeast
05-06-07, 11:06 PM I can't speak to the general cause of any given rules error. It's just that I don't think of myself as a particularly rules savvy person - I spend a fair amount of time arguing rules here on the boards, but I generally spend a lot of time looking at the books before I make an argument. I've failed to catch a few glaring rules errors. Thus, if I immediately catch upon a rules error anywhere, I'm sort of surprised that no one else did in the editing process, because I don't expect that I'd be a very good editor for rules errors.

EDIT: One thing I've failed to make clear - although my flippant remark was about the review process, I'd mostly like to see an errata or something to the mod.
Sieylianna
05-07-07, 07:56 AM I know that in the past (not LG), I have had errors edited into modules.

It's not always the author's fault.

Ed
smerwin29
05-07-07, 08:02 AM I can't speak to the general cause of any given rules error.

My mistake then. It sounded like you were saying that extra motivation would solve these issues.

It's just that I don't think of myself as a particularly rules savvy person - I spend a fair amount of time arguing rules here on the boards, but I generally spend a lot of time looking at the books before I make an argument. I've failed to catch a few glaring rules errors. Thus, if I immediately catch upon a rules error anywhere, I'm sort of surprised that no one else did in the editing process, because I don't expect that I'd be a very good editor for rules errors.

I understand completely. My initial reaction to certain errors I see is the same. Then I remember times editing 30+ pages of stat blocks, and it all comes back to me. :eek:

The fact remains that writing and editing these adventures, particularly when you take into account rules issues and the like, are page for page the toughest kind of writing and editing you can do--and that includes creative writing, business writing, technical writing, etc.

One thing I've failed to make clear - although my flippant remark was about the review process, I'd mostly like to see an errata or something to the mod.

Agreed. For regional and metaregional mods, you should contact your Triad. They have control over the dispersal of the adventures at that level, and they might be able to easily add a text document. Until the RPGA can get an errata system in place for other types of adventures, which may or may not happen because of information flow structures at WotC, many people I know use the LG DMs yahoo group to discuss and post errata. A lot of this errata comes directly from the author.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/lgdms
smerwin29
05-07-07, 08:06 AM I know that in the past (not LG), I have had errors edited into modules.

It's not always the author's fault.

Ed

This was a point I was going to make but left out of my previous post. The last pair of eyes that look at a draft should be someone not making changes, especially when you are talking about complex rules systems where one change can affect changes in a dozen or more other places. I once had an editor change the class of an NPC from wizard to cleric, but not change the spell list! :ayyyy!:
solbergb
05-07-07, 02:09 PM Usually what I do is contact the author, if I can find him, or circle reviewer if I can't.

The author is better placed to push eratta through the painful process and can also talk about what he intended and what a legal substitute might be.

Without the Circle issuing eratta though, anything the author says is merely advice to the judge who has to run it as best he can. The judge has some freedom with respect to illegal statblocks but the exact rules are fuzzy.
Sieylianna
05-08-07, 07:31 AM I once had an editor change the class of an NPC from wizard to cleric, but not change the spell list! :ayyyy!:

I had an editor change the temple guards armor from full plate to chain mail in the stat blocks, but not change the boxed text.

Ed

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
magebeast 05-06-07, 12:49 PM	I want to complain to whoever is in charge of core mods about a bad rules item in a recent core mod. Who should I send an e-mail to?
Dr.Cornelius 05-06-07, 02:44 PM	Best of luck - let us know if you get a response.
Samwise 05-06-07, 02:50 PM	You email Creighton Broadhurst, Circle member for the Core.
bhale187 05-06-07, 04:03 PM	Before you do that, take a moment to make sure you read the module correctly. Then try contacting the module writer, and make him/her aware of the problem. I'm not suggesting that writers don't make mistakes, but occasionally the GM misinterprets things, and sometimes it is just an oversite on the writers part. If you are sure the mod is wrong and the writer refuses to do anything to fix the problem, then it's time to complain.
magebeast 05-06-07, 05:24 PM	Before you do that, take a moment to make sure you read the module correctly. Then try contacting the module writer, and make him/her aware of the problem. I'm not suggesting that writers don't make mistakes, but occasionally the GM misinterprets things, and sometimes it is just an oversite on the writers part. If you are sure the mod is wrong and the writer refuses to do anything to fix the problem, then it's time to complain. No I'm pretty sure you can't make potions out of 4th level spells that's pretty clear. EDIT: Hey it turns out that the Author was a different circle member. E-mailed!
awroe 05-06-07, 06:14 PM	No I'm pretty sure you can't make potions out of 4th level spells that's pretty clear. Ah, I saw the same thing and was wondering if it was correct. Looks like you beat me to it.
Samwise 05-06-07, 06:54 PM	And this issue is already known. I've mentioned it to Creighton myself.
magebeast 05-06-07, 07:08 PM	And this issue is already known. I've mentioned it to Creighton myself. That's fine! Perhaps if we're irritating enough something that simple won't make it past the review process.
Samwise 05-06-07, 07:33 PM	That's fine! Perhaps if we're irritating enough something that simple won't make it past the review process. Not really. Mistakes are mistakes and they happen, however simple or complex the rules regarding it may be. Reporting them can help get them cleared up, but being irritating doesn't reduce the occurrence.
magebeast 05-06-07, 08:57 PM	Not really. Mistakes are mistakes and they happen, however simple or complex the rules regarding it may be. Reporting them can help get them cleared up, but being irritating doesn't reduce the occurrence. Well, I was respectful actually, not irritating - although I realize that's what it sounded like. But I can only assume that a certain volume of complaints, however respectful, might begin to wear and perhaps provide some motivation.
Samwise 05-06-07, 09:25 PM	Well, I was respectful actually, not irritating - although I realize that's what it sounded like. But I can only assume that a certain volume of complaints, however respectful, might begin to wear and perhaps provide some motivation. Yes there is a certain volume that wears and provides motivation. That volume is: One.
smerwin29 05-06-07, 09:36 PM	I think the issue is this: you assume that problems and mistakes that get into adventures are caused by a lack of motivation. I am an editor by trade, and even with a dozen people getting paid a lot of money to review or edit something, errors still slide through. For a volunteer organization working on a much more hectic and less structured framework, the RPGA actually does a pretty good job in terms of getting a great deal of quality content to the players. Are there problems and mistakes that end up in the final product? Absolutely. Is it because of laziness or a lack of motivation? Maybe in a few instances, but on the whole I think it is more an issue of time and necessity. As an author and editor, I do appreciate feedback and people letting me know when there is a problem. I can only hope that other writers and editors are open to feedback and learn from mistakes as well. And I don't think your post was disrespectful. But I don't think a call for people to be irritating is likely to help anyone. It will just dissuade potential writers from taking the plunge for fear of getting abused.
magebeast 05-06-07, 11:06 PM	I can't speak to the general cause of any given rules error. It's just that I don't think of myself as a particularly rules savvy person - I spend a fair amount of time arguing rules here on the boards, but I generally spend a lot of time looking at the books before I make an argument. I've failed to catch a few glaring rules errors. Thus, if I immediately catch upon a rules error anywhere, I'm sort of surprised that no one else did in the editing process, because I don't expect that I'd be a very good editor for rules errors. EDIT: One thing I've failed to make clear - although my flippant remark was about the review process, I'd mostly like to see an errata or something to the mod.
Sieylianna 05-07-07, 07:56 AM	I know that in the past (not LG), I have had errors edited into modules. It's not always the author's fault. Ed
smerwin29 05-07-07, 08:02 AM	I can't speak to the general cause of any given rules error. My mistake then. It sounded like you were saying that extra motivation would solve these issues. It's just that I don't think of myself as a particularly rules savvy person - I spend a fair amount of time arguing rules here on the boards, but I generally spend a lot of time looking at the books before I make an argument. I've failed to catch a few glaring rules errors. Thus, if I immediately catch upon a rules error anywhere, I'm sort of surprised that no one else did in the editing process, because I don't expect that I'd be a very good editor for rules errors. I understand completely. My initial reaction to certain errors I see is the same. Then I remember times editing 30+ pages of stat blocks, and it all comes back to me. :eek: The fact remains that writing and editing these adventures, particularly when you take into account rules issues and the like, are page for page the toughest kind of writing and editing you can do--and that includes creative writing, business writing, technical writing, etc. One thing I've failed to make clear - although my flippant remark was about the review process, I'd mostly like to see an errata or something to the mod. Agreed. For regional and metaregional mods, you should contact your Triad. They have control over the dispersal of the adventures at that level, and they might be able to easily add a text document. Until the RPGA can get an errata system in place for other types of adventures, which may or may not happen because of information flow structures at WotC, many people I know use the LG DMs yahoo group to discuss and post errata. A lot of this errata comes directly from the author. http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/lgdms
smerwin29 05-07-07, 08:06 AM	I know that in the past (not LG), I have had errors edited into modules. It's not always the author's fault. Ed This was a point I was going to make but left out of my previous post. The last pair of eyes that look at a draft should be someone not making changes, especially when you are talking about complex rules systems where one change can affect changes in a dozen or more other places. I once had an editor change the class of an NPC from wizard to cleric, but not change the spell list! :ayyyy!:
solbergb 05-07-07, 02:09 PM	Usually what I do is contact the author, if I can find him, or circle reviewer if I can't. The author is better placed to push eratta through the painful process and can also talk about what he intended and what a legal substitute might be. Without the Circle issuing eratta though, anything the author says is merely advice to the judge who has to run it as best he can. The judge has some freedom with respect to illegal statblocks but the exact rules are fuzzy.
Sieylianna 05-08-07, 07:31 AM	I once had an editor change the class of an NPC from wizard to cleric, but not change the spell list! :ayyyy!: I had an editor change the temple guards armor from full plate to chain mail in the stat blocks, but not change the boxed text. Ed