Post/Author/DateTime	Post
trollbill 03-26-07, 09:34 AM	So now that I am starting to write mods for my region I'm wondering just what makes a good mod to an LG player. So without giving away any spoilers, can some of you tell me what it is that made your favorite mods...well...your favorite mods. Thanks! :)
amnuxoll 03-26-07, 10:39 AM	I'm glad to see you writing. I recommend you jump on the LGWriters list on the Yahoo forums. Lots of helpful folks there. To whet your whistle, at one point the board collectively made a list of things that should be in every LG module: - A good hook. - A blurb tha suggests what type of character should or should not play this ("Don't play this with a pholtan character!", or "For combat-monkeys!", for example). - At least one interesting NPC - All NPCs must be believable, unless the NPCs are supposed to be strange, erratic or untrustworthy. - At least one challenge that the PCs will appreciate getting through. - An acceptable playtime for the number of rounds in the mod (Smile in the Mist anyone?) - Respect for the regional flavour/mood/organisations/ etc. For example, why in the hell is Zilchus present in the Baklunish metaregs, when the Mouqollad Consortium is here? - One choice the PCs must make (or a good veil for the absence of choice). - Rewards the PCs will appreciate. - Risks that are worth the PCs' trouble. - A good story, at least somewhere in the mod. - A combat (yeah, like authors are gonna forget this one! :p) - Correct statblocks - Ways for PCs that are not combat monkeys to survive. - A new twist, or an original idea. - fantasy names for every character or almost. No "Bob" or "Whatsisname". - SHORT boxtexts, that are only descriptive. - The complete absence of auto-surprise. - Absence of penalties for doing the logical thing. For example, no XP penalty for characters who do not kill the priests of Celestian with whom they are at a race (I've seen this, sadly). - When you look at it, you must think: "Damn, I'd have so much fun playing this!". If it's fun for the players, the DM will have fun too. - Proper spelling and grammar. Someone other than the author should read the module and check for these errors. - A competant playtest where the author doesn't run the scenario, but diligently works during the playtest. The playtest DM writes a LOT of notes in the margins. The playtest players EACH make written comments for each encounter. Just like in a play, if an encounter sucks. The DM re-runs it on the spot with a different approach. - Hazards should be appropriate for the levels. - Skill checks should be carefully considered. Opposed checks should be against the abilities of the NPCs or advisitories and other DCs should only vary by APLs if there is a reason for this to happen in the mod. - Consider your themes. Consider what kind of atmosphere you are trying to create. Is there enough humour/horror/suspense/action/etc?
gomeztoo 03-26-07, 10:59 AM	I like mods that have a background story inw hich you can find the motivations of your opponents. I also like scenarios where the bad guys are not one-dimensional evil beasts, but have redeeming qualities (which not necessarily makes them not-evil). Story is more important than combat, but combat does need to make sense. Have the creatures fit the story. Avoid random encounters wherever possible. Also, make sure there are optiosn for everyone. Melee combat, magic, skills, try to offer situatiosn that can be solved in diffferent ways. It's nice to see scenarios where Diplomacy isn't useless, where a rogue can find and disarm traps, and where turning undead is NOT made useless by some dirty trick. Offer some challenge for everyone. Some modules I like because they are part of a series, because the series adds depth and involvement. But a lot of stand-alones are my actual favorites. Atonement, for instance, had a very different kind of story. And I liked Heir Abberrant because it was creative, and the situation was particularly fun with my fashionist bard (I picked her specifically based on the scenario blurb and I turned to be oh so right to bring her). Then again, the occasional dungeon crawl can be fun too. Sometimes you just want to lay the smack on the monsters. Faine of the Drow was quite well doen in that respect. Plot? What plot? Chaaaarrrrgggge! Occasionally, this is a lot of fun. But I'd leave those to Specials and Adaptables, to be honest.
Madfox11 03-26-07, 11:32 AM	One thing you should definitely try to avoid is to design repetitive combat encounters. I have reviewed and run adventures in which there are two or three fights with the same type of monsters whether undead, fiends or bullywug barbarians. Besides the fact that it can be boring, you are also greatly increasing the chances of an inappropiate challenge. Some PCs are extra-ordinarily able to deal with a specific challenge (e.g. radiant servants and undead) or unable (rogues and constructs). So if a group contains one of the first, and too many of the later the whole adventure will be either way too easy (and making that one character shine above the others all the time) or way too difficult. Personally I also love adventures that make me think about the personalities and goals of my PC. Although when this forces the PCs to make a meaningful choice, it is best to make sure the blurb contains a warning. Choice can be great, but only with the right players. Like Pierre I really dislike meaningless fights and truly random encounters in a convention setting and have an even stronger dislike for monsters and traps that make no sense (which includes riddle-locked doors or disabling traps not combined with guardian monsters or an alarm). I prefer to spend the limited time there is on the actual adventure. Although if you have all the time of the world a true random encounter designed to bring the setting to live or to get people focussed again (nothing does this better than a short fight) can be a great addition. I wish this would be presented more often as optional only to be used when there is enough time. Riders of the Grave actually offer a couple of suggestings for minor RP encounters on the road and I liked it despite the wonky premise of level 2 PCs being able to destroy great evil that could not have been destroyed ages earlier (which is another thing I dislike). When writing an investigative or RP heavy adventure, consider your pacing carefully. Try to avoid an adventure that starts with a lot of RPing and places all the fighting at the end of the adventure in a short string of fights. RP scenes are the easiest to cut short, while it is really hard to predict how long fights last and even harder to speed them up (beyond a certain point anyway). All too often I have seen investigatives fail to be finished in the available time because the DM spent too much time on the investigation. Another downside is that most players have a tendency to be distracted easily at the start of a game. So if you start with a lot of role-playing, or worse a pro-active tactical situation, you should realize the adventure will have a slow start (something I realized recently while running a local meta-regional and a regional where the PCs are actually the ones setting up an ambush as opposed to being ambushed). So you should keep this in mind while designing the rest of the adventure - it is going to cost more time than usual. Finally, if there is one thing that shatters my suspension of disbelief it is when I am playing an APL 2 table and the NPCs tell me I am being hired because the first party got anihilated.
Timlagor 03-26-07, 11:46 AM	Avoid NPCs you are supposed to trust and work for who give you absolutely no grounds to do so. There seems to have been an unhealthy rash of these lately including one where two different people wanted the 'plot doodad' and neither would tell us who they represented (one apparently didn't know) or give any evidence of it... Price of Power still ranks as the most annoying for this though. "Because I'm paying you" will work just fine for adventures that have a more personal scope and many missions are 'obviously good': "rescue someone from the monsters for me" is unlikely to get seriously questioned (at least initially) but if you want the party to do something that could have significant political/regional effects then more recognisable figures should be at least prepared to take an interest. Avoid 'texts of great significance' from which the 28Int Loremaster can garner absolutely no information whatsoever.
paigeoliver 03-26-07, 11:51 AM	My list of what makes a good module is more of a list of what not to do then a list of what to do. #1. Box text. Shorter is better, shorter is better, shorter is better. A large percentage of Living Greyhawk gamemasters tend to stumble over box text, and the majority of the rest of them are not really good at making it interesting. Long box text under your average gamemaster will often leave half the table wondering what was even said. I know most writers could write 3 pages of box text that THEY could deliver magnificently, but coming from most other GMs it wouldn't work nearly as well. I have been bitten by this first hand, since I have my own little local multi-gm campaign that runs on and off, and my own long box text never works well when another GM reads it. And note, I don't write for LG because my style isn't really LG appropriate (it is a bit too happy-smiley-funny for Living Greyhawk). #2. Avoid unnecessary skill checks. I recently played a module that involved some carts that had hand brakes on them, you know, pull the brake handle and the cart slows down. It is a handle, pulling on a handle does not require a profession teamster check. Driving a heavily loaded wagon around a tight bend at high speed, sure that would be a profession teamster check, but pulling a handle, no way. #3. Be consistent in what the module says about the rules, both for PCs and NPCs. If your module says that the forest is too dense to take horses into, then don't have a giant wagon train pull up to the characters later in the same forest. #4. Avoid plot devices that the NPCs have no way of pulling off. Your tax collectors can't just automatically determine the character's most valuable magic item and attempt to take it. Even detecting that an item is magic with appraise is a DC 50 epic usage of the skill. Doing so with detect magic and identify is certainly possible, although it would require a large outlay of material component costs on the part of the tax collector. Also, if your adventure has the chance that the authorities might end up after the characters for any reason then don't just write auto-captures as consequences. Many, many characters can avoid these sort of things. Plenty of them have capabilities that can get them hundreds or thousands of miles away in a very short period of time. #5. In choosing monsters and combats I would only use things like difficult terrain and miss chance monsters if it advances the plot in some way. Miss chance monsters just make the fights longer and more frustrating. The D20 rules for things like, spaces taken up by a character, difficult terrain and squeezing and such are very unrealistic and interact poorly with each other.
cetiken 03-26-07, 01:27 PM	What I really enjoy in a mod are two things. 1. Dragons - they work well as plot devices or just megacombats. 2. Dunegons - Nothing beats a good crawl.
Lomiat 03-26-07, 07:21 PM	My personal bias tends toward the "epic" adventures over the "goofy fun" adventures. Thus, as a player, I tend to like challenging, "surviving by the skin of our teeth" adventures. They don't need to have many combats, but the combats should feel central to the goal of the adventure, perhaps even central to one of the region's or metaregion's plot threads. Find a way to "introduce" the villains before they ever appear. Most parties will find a way to jump past the villain's evil speech (or feel frustrated if box text simply prevents them from charging in to kill him), but clever DMs can reveal the villain's character and power through other means. And if you're going to do this, try to make certain the villain can survive a few rounds and can hold his own with the party. It's not a bad idea to give the villain an escape plan and to let the PCs manage to thwart the villain's evil plans without necessarily killing the villain. It's fun for me to feel that there's actually the possibility of failing an adventure. It's not necessarily fun to fail the adventure (at least, not often), but the possibility makes the game exciting. My local playgroup consists of quite a few tactically-minded players with optimized characters, and sometimes it's disappointing to play with the group simply because there's not much chance that anything bad can happen. Similarly, I remember DMing a couple adventures for another optimized group of PCs right before they retired at 18th level, and they were excited in the adventures not so much by the standard combats or by the basic premise of another "go there to save such and such" adventure, but they were excited by the weird things that popped up. One of the wizards was heavily drawn into an adventure when he decided that he had to find and dispatch the assassin that tried to kill him. When the same wizard, an Initiate of the Seven-fold Veil, was surprised to find that the templated wolves could "suck away" his veils, the rest of the party was greatly amused. Again, the same players were amused in an interactive when the tower they had to explore started twisting their spells (wild magic) and then completely shut them down (dead magic). It's not good to try too many weird things (read: rules issues) in a given adventure, but if you try to include at least one "out there" idea, that's likely to be the primary (often, the only) thing that people will remember.
vvincent 03-27-07, 12:21 PM	My list of what makes a good module is more of a list of what not to do then a list of what to do. You might consider emailing either the Circle (if a Core mod), or the regional Triad (if a regional mod) with your concerns. As John DuBois mentioned on another thread - if you don't bring your concerns to attention of the appropriate individual(s), I can pretty much guarantee that they'll never get resolved. Vernon L. Vincent
GrahamWills 03-27-07, 04:18 PM	In the interests of balance, I actualyl find myself on the other side of the fence of some of the following. Not that either of our thoughts is wrong, just that we appear to value to different things ... ... a list of what not to do then a list of what to do. #2. Avoid unnecessary skill checks. I recently played a module that involved some carts that had hand brakes on them, you know, pull the brake handle and the cart slows down. It is a handle, pulling on a handle does not require a profession teamster check. Driving a heavily loaded wagon around a tight bend at high speed, sure that would be a profession teamster check, but pulling a handle, no way. #5. In choosing monsters and combats I would only use things like difficult terrain and miss chance monsters if it advances the plot in some way. Miss chance monsters just make the fights longer and more frustrating. The D20 rules for things like, spaces taken up by a character, difficult terrain and squeezing and such are very unrealistic and interact poorly with each other. #2: Although by definition ANYTHING unnecessary should be avoided, I would rather have mods err on the other side. I see more of an issue in not making use of skills that should be useful. I would encourage mod writers to simply list possible skills and let the GM make the call as to how relevant it is. If want to stop a cart, I would suggest that the module say something like "can be stopped in 200 feet, or within 100' with a DC 15 check using a suitable skill (e.g. Profession:Teamster, Craft:Mechanical, Know:Arch/Engineer). #5: Not using terrain in fights disadvantages a ton of characters and benefits the boring builds. High-terrainy fights make monks, ranger, druids, acrobats, rogues and so on much more effective than the power-gamer chain-fighter and the super-focused archers and blasters. Moreover every single book on combat tells you that terrain is critical. Nothing suspends realism in combat for me more than lack of terrain features. If I have a band of low-level characters, I will SO plan to attack the PCs when I can be in cover and concealment and attack from range against characters moving at half speed. Anything less means your leader cannot have an intelligence higher than 8. Even without a compelling reason, I would still occasionally add terrain features. Suppose, for example, a mod writer is writing a generic outdoor combat set in the early morning. Should they have everywhere in a light mist? If they do, then animal summoners and mages prepping gust of wind are happy. If not, then generic fighters and ranged types are happy. I would go back to the "mix up the combats so no one build works or is always nerfed". A mod set totally in mist is bad. But one with no terrain effects at all is, to my mind, equally bad.
Joethesmita 03-27-07, 08:19 PM	Madhouse because it's a very awesome mod, it plays with your mind....and also my table didn't have a single fight cuz we diplomatically talked to people!
paigeoliver 03-27-07, 09:39 PM	Hi Vernon, I sent you an email, as a few of my example concerns were from your region. I felt they detracted from what was an otherwise excellent story. You might consider emailing either the Circle (if a Core mod), or the regional Triad (if a regional mod) with your concerns. As John DuBois mentioned on another thread - if you don't bring your concerns to attention of the appropriate individual(s), I can pretty much guarantee that they'll never get resolved. Vernon L. Vincent
Lomiat 03-27-07, 10:55 PM	Madhouse because ... Please remove your spoiler.
King Kashue 03-27-07, 11:19 PM	Two of the most fun modules I've ever played were Year 3 Splintered Suns meta-regionals (one of them written by someone in this thread :D) Both of them involved assaulting a location, and because the module gave enough info for the DM to know the layout, etc. it allowed the PCs to devise a plan of attack to maximize their strengths and playing style. Now, you can fall into the trap of trying to do this, but not providing enough information for the DM to run it, but done well, it can really be amazing. Hearing about tables of those modules was always fun, since the way a particular table handled it was often vastly different than others. :D Though one of those having an Animus at all APLs (including APL 2) was nasty :D
Morgen 03-28-07, 01:01 AM	I was a big fan of Lerara.... But then as I was playing a pureblooded Suel who actually speaks Ancient Sueloise I got to have a very good time at the expense of my friends. :D
ezreal2001 03-28-07, 01:19 AM	Madhouse because it doesn't have a single fight and because it really messes with your mind. It's crazy and it's the most fun I've ever had in a mod. sounds like you had some different outcomes - we had a great time anyway. Kudos to the Iuz Metaregion for allowing Brit to do something out of the ordinary. OH yeah I've also really enjoyed Shawn Merwin's Windows to the Serpent's Soul Series - {"Shedding Scales", "Clipping Wings", "Here there be Dragons", "Catching Breath"} So what I look for in mod? Something different from what ever I played last and the knowledge that at the end of the game the outcome was a result of my actions - only being able to succeed is every bit as bad as only being able to fail. To quote President Theodore Roosevelt "Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much or suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat. "
King Kashue 03-28-07, 01:22 AM	Please remove your spoiler. sounds like you had some different outcomes - we had a great time anyway. Kudos to the Iuz Metaregion for allowing Brit to do something out of the ordinary. And please don't quote the post with the spoilers...
Britt 03-28-07, 01:59 AM	And please don't quote the post with the spoilers... Don't worry. Madhouse can't really be spoiled. It's so different each time it runs that it's nigh impossible to tell someone what they are going to experience. As evidence, see the two contradictory posts above :)
pedr 03-28-07, 09:49 AM	Britt, can we bribe you to come to GenCon UK on the last weekend of September so you can run Madhouse for us? Oh and bring some other Iuzian people, so they can run it too! Please?!
Britt 03-28-07, 02:14 PM	Britt, can we bribe you to come to GenCon UK on the last weekend of September so you can run Madhouse for us? Oh and bring some other Iuzian people, so they can run it too! Please?! Sorry, can't afford the plane ticket, or I probably would.
cheeky_ktty 03-29-07, 10:53 PM	I think a good DM really makes a mod good. I mean you can have a really cool mod, but if you got a bad DM it isn't really worth while.
copper_wyrmling 03-29-07, 11:45 PM	For myself... I like mods with a believable storyline that my PCs can care about. I like NPCs who actually behave like rational human beings and put a reasonable amount of effort into helping the adventurers who they're hiring to save their kingdoms. I don't like supposedly intelligent and wise NPCs who behave extremely irrationally (while not under the effect of mind-control magic) and can't be persuaded otherwise by any means. (DC 50 Diplomacy check accompanied by a careful explanation of why there's no incentive for you to lie? Offer to relinquish Will saves vs Discern Lies or Detect Thoughts? Nope, doesn't matter, because the mod says, "No matter what the PCs do, the NPCs will not believe them...") I also really enjoy interesting locations and scenery. Weird terrain or circumstances can make a fight very interesting as it forces the PCs to use different tactics (I remember the fight in the blizzard where EVERYTHING had total concealment, even within 5ft... my sorc resorted to sculpting fireballs in a ring around the party and hoping fervently that she'd remembered the positions of the other PCs correctly...) That said, such unusual circumstances should remain unusual: it's no fun if every encounter shuts down your standard tactics. I dislike modules that deal with high-APL abilities by simply saying "they don't work", or by inserting artificial painful consequences for the PCs using their abilities. I was quite shocked in a recent module when the high-level NPCs hiring the party provided us with the results of a successful Divination: I've become accustomed to modules where all divinations regarding the target NPC / area / topic automatically fail. I've seen a scenario that combined two encounters to potentially deadly effect if the PCs teleported to a particular location (with no in-game justification: one of the encounters started with planeshift, so it couldn't really be precisely aimed) and justified it by saying "Such are the consequences of travelling by magic". That really annoyed me - if there's some sort of metaphysical police force that's going to punish my sorcerer every time she teleports somewhere, it would've been nice to know that before she chose Teleport as her sole fifth-level spell at L10. I don't mind that sort of thing if there's a good in-game justification for it - sure, you're not going to be able to use simple divinations to look inside the maximum-security Iuzian prison, and you shouldn't expect to be able to teleport out from inside, either. But if your only method of dealing with spells above L3 in your high-APL module is to say "There's a special field over the complex that stops all spells above L3" or some equivalent, then maybe the module should be an intro or APL 2-6. Sorry, can't afford the plane ticket, or I probably would. So, Britt... I'm Australian. My PCs all "grew up" in Perrenland, and I judged LG there for almost three years - my two highest-level PCs (L15 and L12) still have home region: Perrenland, are members of Perrenland meta-orgs, have Perrenland titles, etc. I'm currently studying in the USA, in the Bissel region (although my nation of permanent residency remains Australia). Due to the Ratik/Perrenland switch, my family home is now in Ratik, although I haven't played many Ratik mods, and I only have one L1 character with home region: Ratik. For the purpose of running regionals and Fiesta slots, do I have to be a Bissel GM, a Ratik GM, or a Perrenland GM - or can I choose? (I'm possibly going to GenCon UK... and I've played Madhouse...)
Britt 03-29-07, 11:58 PM	For the purpose of running regionals and Fiesta slots, do I have to be a Bissel GM, a Ratik GM, or a Perrenland GM - or can I choose? (I'm possibly going to GenCon UK... and I've played Madhouse...) Contact me offlist when it gets closer to time and we'll work out what you can do.
Timlagor 04-03-07, 12:31 PM	I think a good DM really makes a mod good. I mean you can have a really cool mod, but if you got a bad DM it isn't really worth while. So you're saying we don't want Britt as the DM? :schemes:
Britt 04-03-07, 12:38 PM	I think a good DM really makes a mod good. I mean you can have a really cool mod, but if you got a bad DM it isn't really worth while. So you're saying we don't want Britt as the DM? :schemes: Now that would be a cheeky comment... *rimshot*
cheeky_ktty 04-03-07, 10:58 PM	Now that would be a cheeky comment... *rimshot* What I'm saying is, Brit could write the coolest mod ever, but in the hands of a bad DM, it isn't going to be all that good. Eg. Everyone I know is saying Madhouse is a absolutly brilliant mod, but a player I played with this last weekend said he had played better, cause his DM wasn't up to Madhouse. BTW, Brit were you at Canberra Day Madness?
Gwumph 04-03-07, 11:51 PM	Just for .....Well lets say Thailands 2 cents worth, since it is a constant gripe of my group. Why is it after the Lord Muck-Muck has hired you to save his daughter, you now have to do 20 questions with the guy.....and if you don't ask the right question then you don't get pertainent info. If someone has hired you to do a job and they want you to succeed, just write in the mod notes for the DM to tell the party everything the person knows. scenes like this are just annoying... Party: right is there anything else we need to know? Lord MM (DM): ahhh maybe Party: like what? Did your girl have any special friends? DM: no Party: did she play somewhere special? Did she go anywhere regularly? DM: no and no Party: then we have everything we need to know? DM: not really........ Party: sighing Did she have a nanny? did she have a bodyguard? did she have any enemies? Did she have a boyfriend? Do you have anyway of finding her? DM: no, no, no and no. Yes she wears a magical ring and here is a magical device to locate it. Party: So we have everything we need. DM: not really....... :weep: :headexplo :hoppingma :censored: :banghead: Please, Please mod writers, put in a little blurb telling DM that so and so is helpful and will freely give all useful information. People begging for your help and then being obtuse makes you want to work for enemy or at the very least put someone out of your misery!!
Britt 04-04-07, 12:45 AM	What I'm saying is, Brit could write the coolest mod ever, but in the hands of a bad DM, it isn't going to be all that good. Eg. Everyone I know is saying Madhouse is a absolutly brilliant mod, but a player I played with this last weekend said he had played better, cause his DM wasn't up to Madhouse. BTW, Brit were you at Canberra Day Madness? Oh, Madhouse is VERY dependent on the DM and on your fellow players. If half the table doesn't like or doesn't expect all roleplaying, they just sit there and the table is uncomfortable. If the DM either can't keep up with the action, tries to take too active a role in the roleplaying, or just doesn't like roleplaying, it can also go bad. Heck, if someone has a headache it can go wrong; I had a headache during a slot zero, combined with some of the players not knowing what to expect, and it wasn't very good. My slot at DDXP went about 30 minutes too long and that kinda put a damper on the entire atmosphere. Honestly, I'm shocked that I'm hearing so many good reports about the mod, with as many things that can go wrong with it. No, I wasn't at Canberra Day Madness; I've only been to Australia once, last Spring (for you, Fall for me) for SRDU. I've only been to Sydney and Melbourne, but hope to make it to SRDU in Cairns this year.
_metz_ 04-04-07, 02:50 AM	I think what Cheeky Kitty might also be getting at is modules need to cater for bad DMs... One cannot assume DMs are fair, or know the rules as they should always do. Modules thus need to make it clear how a DM should proceed with most grey area scenarios, especially when it comes to encouraging creativity. I read one good mod where it had "If the PCs avoid encounter X by coming up with something original, or by traveliing via Y then have this encounter occur somehow" I thought that was brilliant. Thing slike this assist DMs who may have not fuklly prepped the module, or are biased/not the best DMs. I have had this isue many a time before and as such favour mod writers who cater for this.
gomeztoo 04-04-07, 02:55 AM	Why is it after the Lord Muck-Muck has hired you to save his daughter, you now have to do 20 questions with the guy.....and if you don't ask the right question then you don't get pertainent info. It depends. Sometimes people simply don't know that much, or don't realize the import of information until you ask. Sometimes they are dim. On occasion they are very dim. And sometimes they don't really WANT to answer questions - they are hiring you to find stuff out, right? Go earn your coin! It doesn't always make sense, I'll grant you that. In those case it is easier if the employer gives you a list of everything he knows (a handout proofs useful). On occasion though you'll need to ask for it. Story wise, it ensures you get familiar with what goes on because you have to actively ask for it. It also puts initiative with the player. As long as the DM makes sure the party gets the most vital info, even if they are all Cha 6 mute dwarves, I don't see a problem with it. And ofcourse there is the age-old question you can ask ANY NPC: "What the heck is going on !?!"
King Kashue 04-04-07, 04:04 AM	And sometimes they don't really WANT to answer questions - they are hiring you to find stuff out, right? Go earn your coin! They're hiring you to go find out stuff they already know? How does that work exactly? :P
Madfox11 04-04-07, 04:15 AM	I know of one adventure where the employer thinks he knows one or two things, but is not 100% sure about their validity. They have decided not to tell the PCs out of fear of influencing their investigation with their own prejudices and assumptions. They just dislike lieing, so will tell what they know if directly asked about it. Mind you, unless the text actually specifically mentions that a certain question is only answered with the right question than a DM does not have to be a jerk and play by the text. This is a D&D adventure and NOT a movie script, let alone a legal script that has to be followed to the letter. The reason many authors use the Question and Answer style is to (a) make the info easy to find, (b) to prevent the boxed text syndrome and (c) to tell something about the speech patterns and personality of the NPC. They don't do it to force the players and DMs to only answer questions asked. So the next time the DM answers "not really..." when you ask him whether you got all the info you need than he is being a jerk, because if the adventure actually mentions NPCs are hesitant to reveal a particular piece of information the DM should not even hint it is there. The adventure assumes you actually don't have it.
Reylance 04-04-07, 09:17 AM	Personally, I think every encounter with an NPC who provides information should REQUIRE the following three categories: "The following information is what the NPC feels is relevant to the topic at hand, and he will relate all this information." and "The following information does not come to the NPC's mind as being important. If the PCs bring up the topic, he will relate this information." and "The following information is what the NPC knows and does not want to reveal, and will only reveal the information in the described situation." Let's say the lord is asking you to find his missing daughter, and a magic ring plays a role in the capture. If the lord didn't notice the ring, or didn't think it was important, then it's not something he would relate, until the PCs bring it up. "Now that you mention it, she was wearing a new ring." That the lord's wife is unfaithful is a fact that would fall into the third category. However, most NPCs should be willing to reveal embarrassing information that they would deem relevant. For example, if he knows his daughter fancies some low-born wandering minstrel, no matter how much he doesn't want to discuss that, he should, as it's clearly an important lead.
Samwise 04-04-07, 01:15 PM	I hate the 20 Questions stuff as well, particularly for essential information. I don't generally consider the second category Reylance lists, but otherwise I've suggested that any information an NPC has be divided into: 1. The mission briefing as a player handout 2. Reluctant information in text or a DM background and role-play sheet If the PCs need to know where to go, who to ask, and what the password is, don't require them to ask about it or remember it, put it in a handout. After that, go to the Sense Motive checks and offbeat questions. This also has the side effect of not making it a page or more of boxed text, something that is also extremely annoying. If the DM and players are inclined, it can always be played out first, but you don't have to. And always give them the handout afterwards for reference.
Hariman 04-04-07, 11:16 PM	Flexibility. I've liked mods that have time limits. They've been good, and enjoyable. They've also been well written and enjoyable. Most of them. But the open ended mods that let players/characters rest between mods instead of railroading the party into an APL +2 fight with half of the casters' spells gone already have been the best. Gateway to Bright Sands was the perfect example of this. It had multiple encounters, each of which was unique with it's own hook. Several encounters had multiple strategies that you could use. There was no time limit to the adventure so resting was an option. And none of the encounters that I recall were overpowering. Time's Tide on Bright Sands was a good time limited mod. Tough, but very well written, with an excellent story. It was a matter of endurance to finish it, but it wasn't outright designed to be ultra tough. Desecrators of the Lord's Tomb was my favorite from last year. It had a compelling story, well spaced/paced encounters, and some good role playing oppurtunities as well. (Oh Boney, we missed you.) The story also went from beginning to end without contrivance, so asking the question "Is this logical?" or "Does this make sense?" is a good thing. I also like stories that make sense. All writers should ask a friend (Preferably a NON gamer.) if the story makes sense. If said friend says "But Why does x do x?" then the author should make sure that the NPC that does that isn't being remarkable stupid. (It's a spoiler to say more) PLAYTEST THE ENCOUNTERS WELL AND FACTOR IN THINGS LIKE LOCATION AND MOVEMENT RESTRICTIONS. I have encountered more than one mod where the enemies were manageable with an "iconic" party, or a specific strategy, but horrific without the ability to use that strategy. Things like restrictive movement and enclosed spaces can make certain enemies/weapons much more effective. Listen to feedback on the boards about over or under CR'd monsters. Don't add the fiendish or half fiend template to ANYTHING. Don't give the enemies Spiked Chains. These are both severely overused weapons/templates. It's like all the writers think that spiked chains and fiendish or half fiend mean unique and interesting. This might not help too much, as it's really just a list of my pet peeves. But these are problems that crop up repeatedly in my view. Hariman
trollbill 05-03-07, 10:07 AM	Thank you all for the suggestions. I will try to keep them in mind when writing. Though one of the suggestions didn't pan out: I'm glad to see you writing. I recommend you jump on the LGWriters list on the Yahoo forums. Lots of helpful folks there. I put in a request to join this group. After the moderator(s) said neither yay nor nay for 2 weeks, yahoo automatically rejected my application. Not very 'helpful.' :( Thank you for the advice, anyway, though. :)
AOSOL 05-03-07, 10:30 AM	One of the most entertaining mods I've played in a while was "Things to Do in Bissel When You're Dead". The game involved half in hour of players fooling around with spells because they were dead and the mod was extremely well written. I enjoyed the hell out of it.
solbergb 05-03-07, 12:28 PM	I was a big fan of Lerara.... But then as I was playing a pureblooded Suel who actually speaks Ancient Sueloise I got to have a very good time at the expense of my friends. :D Grrr...that module forced my dwarf to learn Suel. He takes great pride in the fact that he speaks "all the languages in the underdark'. Imagine his horror at discovering a suel civilization there.... Bad enough that the stupid mushroom people (drow elves) made him learn elvish... Ok lets see what I like. 1. Memorable NPC's. Although the judge often is a bigger determination than the players, but some of my favorites are: Tillian (priest of Pelor in Eastfair, When Orcs Attack and Never Rains in Nyrond) - plucky, fearless and useful. Afronideous (priest of Zilchus in Eastfair, Running with Baatzu series, who has the most entertaining note to pc's that I've ever seen) Actually I liked a lot of the bit characters in the Running with Baatzu series. There are things I don't like about Chris Chesire mods, but lack of memorable NPC's isn't one of his problems as an author. He also put Lord Robilar in a module in a roleplay situation - running that was just a blast. Then there was the Lantern Archon drill sergeant.... The Grand Inquisitor of Dimre (or whatever his current title is) from a BK module. Telling why I like him might involve spoilers, but one reason is that when he was added into a battle, he actually contributed. But really that's the least of it. An unnamed marshall diplomat from another BK mod (he might have had a name, but he didn't deign to let us know it. We weren't allowed to talk to him or touch him. All communication was through his servant. Until assassins showed up, whereupon he started giving us orders that boosted our combat ability and deigned to let a cleric heal him....and then he ran like a bunny like a sensible NPC while we cleaned up the bad guys). Again, a lot of BK modules have interesting bit characters. Then...there is Morgenstaler, seducer of magical beasts and pretty young spontaneous caster PC's. "So...we've got what he wanted. You think he's going to screw us at the payoff? Well...he IS chaotic evil. So yeah, probably...." In the Pale, there is a merchant of magic items whose setup was so cool my character took notes for her own stronghold, there was a "wild party" consisting of Pholtan clerks indulging in a little white wine and getting all tipsy and crazy, there was an apple-loving abolith with hilarious notes to his minions, Winterwind, the villain who made us all hate him through his taunts and misdirections.... In the duchy, my monk has preened to admiring street performers, interfered in romeo/juliet encounters (involving both the principles and their servants in best Shakesperean tradition), encountered very scary "wife heads of evil noble household" who totally hosed our party because we talked to them instead of just killing them and in an intro mod, we encountered a "citified" flan who required a cartload of equipment to risk going camping. Basically I want to remember some of the people my character interacted with. I'm bad with names, so their style/personality is what stays with me. 2. Memorable situations Volunteering to go into a prison undercover was one of my most entertaining modules ever. There are too many examples of this to list, but pretty much, I don't want to look at the AR and say "what the heck happened in that module?" It needs to have something I remember. 3. First rate people hire first rate people. Second rate people hire third rate people. PC's like matching wits/skills with people they respect. Have some scary competent badguys (and evidence of competence BEFORE the final battle). PC's like making fools of idiots and showing off. Have some bad guys be really INCOMPETENT (this can explain obligatory thug encounters where two rogues lower level than the party attack 6 party members with expensive equipment and 3-4 huge animals with them). 4. Bad guys with real motivations. Evil people are sometimes rats bailing out of a sinking ship. This makes it possible for the judge to play the encounter "to win" and have some idea if the guy will flee if overwhelming force, fight to death, surrender, etc. As a judge I make judgement calls on this a lot, and some of the more entertaining situations I've had in recent runs involved things like this: Two intelligent undead kick down the door where PC's are staying, thinking to terrorize new arrivals. PC's tear the first undead to shreds in one round, taking no damage. The second undead flees into the fog to report back - no way he's fighting them alone. PC's figure out how to follow him (even though he doesn't get tired and they do) without him knowing and get a leg-up on the adventure. Later when the PC's fight the BBEG, this guy kind of helps, but fights cautiously and runs away once the leader is dripped. I've also had captured minions sell out their boss - typically they are just mercenaries and obviously the boss lied to them, sending them into an EL+4 or higher encounter...(for them). This behavior often gets them off the hook or mostly so, often even means they don't have to face authorities. Perfect evil....selfish, not likely to get caught, escape by betraying a former ally. 5. an attempt to live by the spirit of the EL system, and an attempt at accurate statblocks. If these elements are present I'll forgive a lot, and likely enjoy it when playing and want to run it.
Rerednaw 05-03-07, 12:37 PM	Thank you all for the suggestions. I will try to keep them in mind when writing. Though one of the suggestions didn't pan out: I put in a request to join this group. After the moderator(s) said neither yay nor nay for 2 weeks, yahoo automatically rejected my application. Not very 'helpful.' :( Thank you for the advice, anyway, though. :) I think I had to submit a request about 3 times to that group before I got approved. The first 2 times I had the same experience you had, no initial response and an auto-reject after a few weeks. As for what works for me? ==================== I like adapteds because they usually have more of the old 'dungeon crawl' flavor. A good story: Red Hand is a nice story of epic proportions. Being rewarded for doing the right thing (we're supposed to be HEROES, remember?) and not punished. (Unless of course your region is populated by anti-heroes which also works.) Continuing storylines that give more of a campaign feel. Sometimes helping the little guy is just as, if not more important than the epic fight scene. What doesn't work for me? ==================== 'creative' ELs. Templated critters, NPC class levels, not taking into account environment, or that it is the last fight of the day, after you just thought that you had already done the last fight, with low resources, successive waves, etc. Being rewarded for doing the wrong thing (screwing over the good/helpful NPCs, screwing over the fellow party members.) Messed up statblocks. Skill DCs of 45 at APL2. Cheeseball access or pay to play. Only exclusive people who know someone in the industry got to play a special interactive that gives access to all sorts of things that everyone else will NEVER see. Or if you forked over $300 for a special con to get a card. Assuming every party is a full table of min-maxed munchkins.
Mattastrophic 05-03-07, 01:30 PM	A couple of pet peeves of my own: -Mods that actively screw over Cha-based methods of completion. I had the pleasure of playing a recent Core in which our party managed to use Bluff, Diplomacy, etc. to apparently go off the track the mod intended. So we missed an encounter with a certain NPC. So she couldn't give us her favor. So we ended up with ZERO access... *sigh* and it was clearly labeled as an 'investigative' (i.e. Cha-friendly) module, too. -Mods that have illegal statblocks. I've run into thugs that Power Attack with sickles, clerics that managed to take Extra Turning multiple times with their Fire Giant hit dice, Ogre Mages with full BAB, Mind Flayers with feats they don't qualify for, and then there was the Chained Enervation trap. A couple of mod praises of my own: -Mods that give you all your rewards, no matter what choices you make, while managing to not clue you into what it's doing. Thus, it's all about the roleplaying, not about killing everything for the item access. -Mods that don't require killing the badguys to get the access. Thus, Cha-based characters can do their thing, and we can get by allowing the bad guys to surrender without immediately stripping them naked. -Mods with really cool encounters that aren't built to kill people. For example, I randomly ran into some Flame Djinni last year. That was cool. -Matt