Post/Author/DateTime	Post
chitzk0i 02-10-06, 01:38 PM	I've been thinking of buying a Yugoloth trident since I have access, but I'm a little confused about it. During the module in which I found it, the DM said it was two-handed, whereas a standard trident is one-handed and the AR doesn't say anything about any differences.
kenobi65 02-10-06, 01:59 PM	Does the AR list a source book for the yugoloth trident? That's be your definitive source, I'd think.
King Kashue 02-10-06, 09:31 PM	Does the AR list a source book for the yugoloth trident? That's be your definitive source, I'd think. No it does not...However, it does say "this weapon functions as a +1 trident", so it works as any other trident... In the descriptive text it says "this large black-hafted weapon", but in context it seems unlikely to be saying "this is a large trident" in the game mechanics sense (which is the only way a trident would be 2h)...
Mommy was an Orc 02-11-06, 12:18 AM	Without knowing more, I'm assuming you defeated a Mezzoloth Yugoloth from MM3. They're medium-sized creatrues with 4 arms who seem to tend to wield their tridents with 2 hands. Any trident can be wielded two-handed. They simply have the extra arms with which to do that. No it does not...However, it does say "this weapon functions as a +1 trident", so it works as any other trident... In the descriptive text it says "this large black-hafted weapon", but in context it seems unlikely to be saying "this is a large trident" in the game mechanics sense (which is the only way a trident would be 2h)...
King Kashue 02-11-06, 02:23 AM	Without knowing more, I'm assuming you defeated a Mezzoloth Yugoloth from MM3. They're medium-sized creatrues with 4 arms who seem to tend to wield their tridents with 2 hands. Any trident can be wielded two-handed. They simply have the extra arms with which to do that. Nope...It's an item on an AR, and does not come from a specific creature either in module or on the AR... And of course, a trident can be used 2 handed, like any 1 handed weapon...However, it is a 1h weapon, and even has a two weapon style feat with a trident in one hand and a net in the other (a la Roman gladiators)...
Rawveggie 02-11-06, 03:32 AM	Actually a Mezzoloth is exactly what the weapon was from in the adventure. Without giving away any spoilers, the description from the creature you take it from in the scenario is "insectoid with four arms". I'm sure that is the same trident wielded by the Mezzoloth especially because the AR does call it a "Yugoloth Trident", how many of those could there be? Anyway, back to the original poster's question. I'm pretty sure it is not a large-sized trident because as you point out the description says it functions as a "+1 trident". Perhaps the "This large trident" description is just intended to mean it as "larger than usual". This would also make sense as the Mezzoloth are about 7 feet tall and have a pair of arms just for wielding the trident. I'm wondering if my character from that adventure should purchase the trident also. I have a bad feeling that it may be used against my character in the future. Wielding a weapon that was once used by an evil outsider certainly gives me pause. ;) -Raw
King Kashue 02-12-06, 02:24 AM	Actually a Mezzoloth is exactly what the weapon was from in the adventure. Without giving away any spoilers, the description from the creature you take it from in the scenario is "insectoid with four arms". I'm sure that is the same trident wielded by the Mezzoloth especially because the AR does call it a "Yugoloth Trident", how many of those could there be? Yes, but you don't defeat one in the module (I don't think that's a spoiler, since I doubt many people are expecting to face high CR outsiders in intro mods)...
Mommy was an Orc 02-12-06, 10:05 AM	A Mezzoloth Yugoloth looks like a "insectoid with four arms" and all of them carry regular tridents +1... Yes, but you don't defeat one in the module (I don't think that's a spoiler, since I doubt many people are expecting to face high CR outsiders in intro mods)...
King Kashue 02-12-06, 12:01 PM	A Mezzoloth Yugoloth looks like a "insectoid with four arms" and all of them carry regular tridents +1... I know what one is...and if I didn't, I would know from the descriptions in the thread...And no matter how many times it's described to me, it's not going to change the fact you don't actually fight one in the intro module that the item comes from... :D
Mommy was an Orc 02-12-06, 12:52 PM	I know what one is...and if I didn't, I would know from the descriptions in the thread...And no matter how many times it's described to me, it's not going to change the fact you don't actually fight one in the intro module that the item comes from... :D That's not the point - the point is that Mezzoloths all carry regular +1 tridents and they're Yugoloths. They're also the only Yugoloths who carry tridents on a regular basis. If you find a magical weapon, it didn't come from out of nowhere. For some reason, the AR is giving you the information that the particular +1 Trident you find is from a Yugoloth. It doesn't make it anything other than a +1 Trident - which makes sense, because Intro mod ARs are not supposed to give access.
King Kashue 02-12-06, 02:48 PM	That's not the point - the point is that Mezzoloths all carry regular +1 tridents and they're Yugoloths. They're also the only Yugoloths who carry tridents on a regular basis. If you find a magical weapon, it didn't come from out of nowhere. For some reason, the AR is giving you the information that the particular +1 Trident you find is from a Yugoloth. It doesn't make it anything other than a +1 Trident - which makes sense, because Intro mod ARs are not supposed to give access. How is that "the point"? You said "I'm assuming you defeated a Mezzoloth", and I replied that no, you do not, it comes from a different source...I am correct in my statement, I never said that Mezzoloth's didn't use tridents or that Mezzoloth's aren't Yugoloths, merely that it doesn't come from defeating one... It comes from somewhere in the module, just not from the creature... And it is explicitly more than just a +1 weapon, though it's further abilities are not yet revealed, and this particular intro module can give all the access it wants (and I'm already close to spoilers, so I won't say more)...
Madfox11 02-13-06, 05:20 AM	It doesn't make it anything other than a +1 Trident - which makes sense, because Intro mod ARs are not supposed to give access. That is not entirely correct. Regular Intro mod ARs do not give access, though in the unlikely event of a PC with over 2000 gp they could in theory buy a +1 magic weapon (general access after all). A Triad could decide to write an Intro and let it be one of the 8 regional scenario slots, in which they could hand out special access, and that is basically what the Core people did with the adventure where the trident is from. I am pretty sure btw it is a regular sized +1 trident.
Namarus 02-13-06, 11:03 AM	That is not entirely correct. Regular Intro mod ARs do not give access, though in the unlikely event of a PC with over 2000 gp they could in theory buy a +1 magic weapon (general access after all). A Triad could decide to write an Intro and let it be one of the 8 regional scenario slots, in which they could hand out special access, and that is basically what the Core people did with the adventure where the trident is from. I am pretty sure btw it is a regular sized +1 trident. Actually Kashue is correct. It is an intro module that gives it. It's only a +1 trident as far as I have seen on my AR, but it is called a Yugoluth trident.
King Kashue 02-13-06, 02:41 PM	Actually Kashue is correct. It is an intro module that gives it. It's only a +1 trident as far as I have seen on my AR, but it is called a Yugoluth trident. The text actually says "It may have other abilities, but these remain unknown"...Which is AR-speak for "there will likely be other upgrades coming in later mods"...
Madfox11 02-14-06, 03:29 AM	Actually Kashue is correct. It is an intro module that gives it. It's only a +1 trident as far as I have seen on my AR, but it is called a Yugoluth trident. I know where it is from and I know I am right as well ;) There have been "Introductionary"-metaregionals with more access around here and it was possible because it was a regular scenario since it was one of the 8 that retired after 2 years.
Stexe 03-20-06, 07:20 AM	The reason the Yugoloth Trident is average size (made for a medium character) instead of a large is described in the mod. It was a large sized weapon but was sundered (or destroyed in some other way) so that only the top half is still useable (I guess changing the large to a medium through the power of box text). It is a standard +1 Trident for all extensive purposes (as of yet).
solbergb 03-20-06, 12:52 PM	Uh...on my AR it says "Large +1 trident" or words to that effect. I always assumed it was a size Large trident (as indeed, Yugolith tridents are) and thought maybe it was intended for future centaurs or monkey-grip guys to use.
rutrow424 03-20-06, 01:27 PM	Uh...on my AR it says "Large +1 trident" or words to that effect. I always assumed it was a size Large trident (as indeed, Yugolith tridents are) and thought maybe it was intended for future centaurs or monkey-grip guys to use. The AR actually reads "large black-hafted trident" in the descriptive text, and it is noted to function as a +1 trident (if it was large it would say Large +1 trident). It is also costed as a medium-sized +1 trident.
solbergb 03-21-06, 04:46 PM	Hm. So it all depends on whether you feel the capitalization or lack of it in the word "large" was flavor or descriptive. The fact that it is priced as a medium trident is compelling. The fact that the Yugolith who used the trident in the module was size large is also compelling. (No, you don't fight a Mezzolith at level 1. However the provenance of the Trident is very, very clear in the module...it wasn't a mezzolith trident anyway, Mezzoliths are medium, and the monster weilding it was described as size large...probably a Nyacolith - the last one of those I fought with my level 11 monk was using a trident, while the mezzolith was using a reach weapon). Flip a coin. Expect table variation.
paigeoliver 03-22-06, 12:55 AM	Can't always use the price as a guide. I have at least one recent AR in my stack that has a +1 large something or other priced at only 2000 gold.
King Kashue 03-22-06, 04:06 AM	Hm. So it all depends on whether you feel the capitalization or lack of it in the word "large" was flavor or descriptive. The fact that it is priced as a medium trident is compelling. The fact that the Yugolith who used the trident in the module was size large is also compelling. (No, you don't fight a Mezzolith at level 1. However the provenance of the Trident is very, very clear in the module...it wasn't a mezzolith trident anyway, Mezzoliths are medium, and the monster weilding it was described as size large...probably a Nyacolith - the last one of those I fought with my level 11 monk was using a trident, while the mezzolith was using a reach weapon). Flip a coin. Expect table variation. It has nothing to do with capitalization, it has to do with where the word "large" show up...It's in a sentence in a descriptive paragraph, not in the stats for the item.
solbergb 03-22-06, 08:10 PM	I fail to see how a descriptive paragraph is any different from a statblock when talking about the upper part of an AR. That same descriptive paragraph explains that the trident oozes blood, which is also kinda important from a "Do I want this as my weapon" perspective". to me a large +1 trident is a "Size Large +1 trident" a small +1 trident is a "Size Small +1 trident" etc...since in D&D, you don't normally describe a weapon with "small/medium/large/huge" type adjectives unless you are referring to the mechanical function. If it said "a glowing longsword+1" I would assume that it fit the mechanical definition of the kind of magic swords that glow like a torch. Yes, you can assume the author was just saying "larger than a normal trident but not enough to make mechanical difference", but I find such interpretations risky when dealing with AR's. AR's are often contradictory and sometimes have wrong prices on them, but bottom line is - it only takes one judge to read the text and cause the item to be different from what you thought to ruin your day.
paigeoliver 03-23-06, 05:53 AM	Nothing points to that trident as being size large other than a bit of descriptive text that is otherwise contradicted several times. Contradicted by the price of the item (which of course isn't always right), and contradicted by the line that gives its actual function. It says it functions as a +1 trident, not as a +1 LARGE trident. Also, what GM is checking your AR to see what size your weapon is?
Tryon 03-23-06, 09:16 PM	So, if the trident is medium..great! So, what happens if a Centaur gets it and gets too tubby to be considered medium (eg: 'grows large')? Is it a Large Trident at that point? T
redgamer 03-23-06, 10:03 PM	If a centuar buys it you use centuar rule so I believe the answer is it turns large.
solbergb 03-24-06, 03:35 PM	For me, this discussion is academic. As a judge, I'd allow the trident either way, based on what the player THOUGHT he was buying. (given that it is the same cost as a normal +1 trident, no reason to quibble). My asherati cleric isn't buying the item anyway, so I don't have to worry about it as a player. However my advice would be to only buy it if you are comfortable with it both ways, (ie, -2 to hit but a 2d6, 2-handed weapon at some tables) since I'm probably not the only guy who read the AR and assumed "large" meant "Large". The Yugolith trident is a very distinctive weapon - any Judge who played the mod will recognize it and if his opinion is different than yours, you'd better be ok with accepting it. I think we have established that the wording isn't clear.