0 Level Spells. [Archive] - Wizards Community

0 Level Spells. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
myusernameis
07-17-06, 12:14 AM I have a question: why is there no bonus spell progression for zero level spells?
ChaoticGood
07-17-06, 12:23 AM Primarily because you get so many anyway (not to mention their popularity as racial spell-like abilities) that it eventually gets to a point of "enough is enough!" :)
myusernameis
07-17-06, 12:50 AM Yes, but is there any balance reason I wouldn't want to make a progression for bonus zero level spells?
Kith_Adorin
07-17-06, 01:13 AM Primarily because you get so many anyway (not to mention their popularity as racial spell-like abilities) that it eventually gets to a point of "enough is enough!"

I thought you get four, and thats it. Unless your a specialist wizard, then you get five. Fifth being your specialized school. Is there something I am missing?
Witch
07-17-06, 04:00 AM Yes, but is there any balance reason I wouldn't want to make a progression for bonus zero level spells?
Its 0-level spells. While certainly, giving spellcasters more spells per day would be overpowering them (even more), I don't think that counts for 0-level spells.
FlameLover
07-17-06, 04:57 AM I've house-ruled unlimited 0-level spells per day. It's worked out fine so far, no biggie. You can do the same, or just make a progression. I doubt it'll make a difference past level 2 (once you get Scorching Ray, you start to ignore 0th-level spells)
OneWinged4ngel
07-17-06, 06:03 AM I dunno, I love 0 level spells! Message, Ghost Sound, Prestidigitation, and Detect Magic are all really useful, not to mention fun.

As for scaling, they're generally supposed to be very basic, rudimenary effects. Bringing them up to the level of a 1st level spell even if cast by an advanced wizard seem to take away their "cantrip-y-ness"

The only way they ever scale is in duration.
Thiez
07-17-06, 07:09 AM Items with continuous cantrip effects are nice :)
Dheran
07-17-06, 08:21 AM I've house-ruled unlimited 0-level spells per day. It's worked out fine so far, no biggie. Unlimited spells can really add up, and I've personally broken a DM's spirit with a cleric using unlimited orisons:
Throw a gazillion pebbles with Light into a dungeon, negating monsters' darkvision advantage
Hit everybody with Guidance before every new doorway, and the party rogue before every skill check
Detect Magic in every room
When the party takes damage, run away and use Cure Minor Wounds until fully healed
Use Create Water (cast 600 times/hour for many hours) to flood a burrow

The bonus I'd recommend is to add a number of 0-level spells equal to your caster level. This way the number only gets large when 0-level spells aren't important anymore.
Shatteredtower
07-17-06, 09:17 AM The bonus I'd recommend is to add a number of 0-level spells equal to your caster level. This way the number only gets large when 0-level spells aren't important anymore.I like the suggestion, though I'd go with a number of spells equal to your caster level or relevant ability score modifier, whichever is lower.
Thiez
07-17-06, 09:24 AM Maybe rule that they (get infinite spells of level X (where X is 0, 1, and 2 if you're pretty epic), starting at level Y.

Like, level 7: get infinite level 0 spells.

Level 14: get infinite level 1 spells.

Level 21: get infinite level 2 spells.

etc. etc. (formula: (spell level + 1) * 7, 0th level spells count as 0 instead of the usual .5)

by the time you've got infinite level 9 spells you're eating deities from breakfast anyway. (would be level 90 with this system)

edit: If you give all these spells as spell-like abilities, you can ignore material components and xp! :)
Nagaraka
07-17-06, 10:16 AM As a DM, I usually give a number of bonus 0-level spells equal to the spellcasting scores modifier. It usually works out really well.
myusernameis
07-17-06, 11:33 PM Well I just made a progression for bonus spells based on high ability scores and basically followed the same pattern as every other spell level.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
myusernameis 07-17-06, 12:14 AM	I have a question: why is there no bonus spell progression for zero level spells?
ChaoticGood 07-17-06, 12:23 AM	Primarily because you get so many anyway (not to mention their popularity as racial spell-like abilities) that it eventually gets to a point of "enough is enough!" :)
myusernameis 07-17-06, 12:50 AM	Yes, but is there any balance reason I wouldn't want to make a progression for bonus zero level spells?
Kith_Adorin 07-17-06, 01:13 AM	Primarily because you get so many anyway (not to mention their popularity as racial spell-like abilities) that it eventually gets to a point of "enough is enough!" I thought you get four, and thats it. Unless your a specialist wizard, then you get five. Fifth being your specialized school. Is there something I am missing?
Witch 07-17-06, 04:00 AM	Yes, but is there any balance reason I wouldn't want to make a progression for bonus zero level spells? Its 0-level spells. While certainly, giving spellcasters more spells per day would be overpowering them (even more), I don't think that counts for 0-level spells.
FlameLover 07-17-06, 04:57 AM	I've house-ruled unlimited 0-level spells per day. It's worked out fine so far, no biggie. You can do the same, or just make a progression. I doubt it'll make a difference past level 2 (once you get Scorching Ray, you start to ignore 0th-level spells)
OneWinged4ngel 07-17-06, 06:03 AM	I dunno, I love 0 level spells! Message, Ghost Sound, Prestidigitation, and Detect Magic are all really useful, not to mention fun. As for scaling, they're generally supposed to be very basic, rudimenary effects. Bringing them up to the level of a 1st level spell even if cast by an advanced wizard seem to take away their "cantrip-y-ness" The only way they ever scale is in duration.
Thiez 07-17-06, 07:09 AM	Items with continuous cantrip effects are nice :)
Dheran 07-17-06, 08:21 AM	I've house-ruled unlimited 0-level spells per day. It's worked out fine so far, no biggie. Unlimited spells can really add up, and I've personally broken a DM's spirit with a cleric using unlimited orisons: Throw a gazillion pebbles with Light into a dungeon, negating monsters' darkvision advantage Hit everybody with Guidance before every new doorway, and the party rogue before every skill check Detect Magic in every room When the party takes damage, run away and use Cure Minor Wounds until fully healed Use Create Water (cast 600 times/hour for many hours) to flood a burrow The bonus I'd recommend is to add a number of 0-level spells equal to your caster level. This way the number only gets large when 0-level spells aren't important anymore.
Shatteredtower 07-17-06, 09:17 AM	The bonus I'd recommend is to add a number of 0-level spells equal to your caster level. This way the number only gets large when 0-level spells aren't important anymore.I like the suggestion, though I'd go with a number of spells equal to your caster level or relevant ability score modifier, whichever is lower.
Thiez 07-17-06, 09:24 AM	Maybe rule that they (get infinite spells of level X (where X is 0, 1, and 2 if you're pretty epic), starting at level Y. Like, level 7: get infinite level 0 spells. Level 14: get infinite level 1 spells. Level 21: get infinite level 2 spells. etc. etc. (formula: (spell level + 1) * 7, 0th level spells count as 0 instead of the usual .5) by the time you've got infinite level 9 spells you're eating deities from breakfast anyway. (would be level 90 with this system) edit: If you give all these spells as spell-like abilities, you can ignore material components and xp! :)
Nagaraka 07-17-06, 10:16 AM	As a DM, I usually give a number of bonus 0-level spells equal to the spellcasting scores modifier. It usually works out really well.
myusernameis 07-17-06, 11:33 PM	Well I just made a progression for bonus spells based on high ability scores and basically followed the same pattern as every other spell level.