Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ac1dbather 01-09-05, 02:49 PM	Hello all, I have just ventured over from the DM Boards due to a question that popped in my head. The question comes for a thread discussing the relative weakness of 1st level wizards/sorcerers as compared to fighters and such. I personally feel it is well balanced with all things taken into consideration, however this is not what I intended this thread for. My question is this, how many of you, as players, use your 0 level spells? Do you all find them useless, or not? I'm just curious, as I think you can come up with interesting and useful ways to use them. Example: I was a player in a campaign once and we were on our first adventure. I was playing a sorcerer and one of my 0 level spells I had taken was Magehand. We were tracking a group of orcs who had kidnapped random villager #73 and ended up at a cave where they had a lair located at. There were 2 orcs standing gaurd outside of the cave. We had a bard in the party who happened to have some of his costumes with him. I asked him to take hand me one. After he did I stuffed it with some pine needles (we were hiding in some woods), and had him place it in some bushes that the orcs could see. After this I used magehand to slowly move the "dummy" slowly up and down, while we were hidden safely away. Once they took the bait we were able to sneak in without wasting any resources aside from a 0 level spell. This, to me, points out that the spells are not useless and with a little imagination they can be valuable tools. It also reitterates the point that every one in the previous thread was trying to make to the people complaining about the small number of spells given at 1st level, smart use and conservation of spells means that you don't have to waste both of your magic missiles in the first encounter. Opinions?
MetalGemini 01-09-05, 03:10 PM	As a player, I've never played a magic user, so I'll just say what the others in my group use. Arcane: In preperation for a fight: Resistance (duration 1 min works well) In combat: Acid splash, ray of frost (when out of higher level damage spells, these work well) When learning new spells: Read magic More general: Detect magic (on anything that might be a magic item) For the rogue/wiz: Mage hand, prestidigitation, open/close for misc uses. Divine: None. I've never seen a player use an orison other than detect magic, for the same purpose as the arcane caster. The orisons seem to have fewer uses than the cantrips. They are mostly buffer spells that don't give enough of a bonus to mid-high level characters to matter.
Seeker95 01-09-05, 03:36 PM	The three spellcasters in my group use 0-level spells almost all the time. And in most games I have ever played in, the arcane casters have consistently used prestidigitation / cantrip* just about every session. As a variant, I have seen many DMs allow 0-Level spells be used as "spontaneous castings". You get a number per day as written, but you do not need to prepare them. You can pick any that you know at any time, up to your daily limit. Some DMs allow a caster to start with ALL of the cantrips available. *In previous editions, prestidigitation was a spell called cantrip.
fredrik_nilsson 01-09-05, 04:24 PM	I've almost never played a divine spell caster, but here are some thought around the arcane 0th level spells. Acid Splash: It has some combat potential, but there is also an intimidation potential in the spell. Arcane Mark: The obvious things are pranks ("Kick me!") and graffiti, but why not give your foe a mark ("like the Phantom does"). Dancing Lights: The vague humanoid shape could either be used as part of an entertainment act, or to impersonate a ghost. Daze: During the lower levels of a campaign, this spell has much the same use as Hold Person (the victim take no action). It could for example, help you pass a low-level guard without having to use violence. Detect Magic: To prepare the see how powerful an opponent is, or to differentiate a charlatan from a true spell caster. Detect Poison: Alcohol is a poison too, so I guess you could use it too differ between good and bad wine. Disrupt Undead: At lower levels this is one of the best spells to keep undead at bay when there are no clerics around. Flare: This is a good spell to help even out the odds in combat. The spell also lowers the victim’s spot, so it could be used as a form of invisibility spell (especially if the DM adds penalty for using Spot at night). Ghost Sound: When used together with another skill (like Intimidate, or Perform) it could give the skill user a bonus. The spell could help players communicate in noisy conditions, like waterfalls and crowds. Light: Use it on the clothes and you could try to impersonate a divine being. Mage Hand: For naughty players this spell could act as an extra hand during "the quality time". Mending: When the character lacks the craft skill, this spell might sometimes fix that problem. Why spend the time between adventures as a shoe maker? Message: Anything you could do with a mobile phone, like coordination between players or the occasional romantic message. Open/Close: Afraid of trapped doors? Fear no more. Isn't haunted houses known for sudden openings of doors? Prestidigitation: In some settings, a performance like this could be the base for a regular income. Ray of Frost: See Acid Splash. Read Magic: This spell doesn’t see much use in my games, besides those mentioned in PHB. Resistance: A good spell when in combat, or when doing some random dungeon crawling. Touch of Fatigue: Since the target gets -2 STR and -2 DEX, it could be a good spell at the start of a combat. Another time to use it is when the character is chased, due to the fact that the victim can't run during the duration. Some good combination could be... The get away: Start the combat with the spell Daze, followed by the spell Touch of Fatigue. This should help you get away from most lo-level thugs without as much as a single HP lost. The haunted house: In a village that lacks NPCs knowledgeable in magic, the spells Dancing Lights and Ghost Sound should be enough create a bunch of rumors of the dangers in the house at the hill. I'm a mighty sorcerer: When you are sure about that your enemy don't know a thing about magic, cast physical spells like Ray of Frost and Mage Hand and use it on the surroundings, just to make him uncertain about your true powers. Hopefully this might make him scared of you. If not, use Ghost Sound and scream in his face.
BW0222 01-10-05, 12:11 AM	0-level spells rock! Even at high-levels a smart party should be using them. Light - No caster should ever be without it. Torches and lanterns require hands, takes rounds to get out and light, can be extinquished, and don't work underwater. A party without a light spell could be dead by the time someone gets a torch out of a backpack, takes out a tinderbox, and then gets one lit. Detect Magic - Not having this equals a lot of missed treasure. Create Water - Why carry heavy (full) waterskins around when a simple spell solves this. Also useful to clean yourself, put out enemy torches, wake up drunks, etc. Mending - Saves wear and tear on cloaks, boots, etc. which seem to get hit a lot in combat. Read Magic - How else do folks find out what scrolls do! Detect Poison - I have seen it break modules for high-level PCs. Great for everything from what to eat in the wilderness to what not to eat at the inn. Purify Food and Drink - Solves a lot of problems. Acid Splash - Almost as good as magic missile at low levels. Ghost Sound - Distracts even high level creatures. Presitidigitation - Do high level wizards actually clean their own stuff!
Osiris Memnoch 01-10-05, 12:41 AM	Damn! I'm in jail...again! Oh boy! The guard fell asleep on the other side of the room/ is distracted by something. I cast Open on his pocket and Mage Hand the key over to my hand.
Ac1dbather 01-10-05, 09:27 AM	Thanks for the replies. I was just curious as to if people actually use them, and obviously they have many uses. I think that I will direct some of the naysayers to this thread :D
tarkin 01-10-05, 11:45 AM	I use them a LOT. Detect Magic, Read Magic are must have spells. Dancing Lights, Mending, Mage Hand are all really helpfull spells.
Kyy'Dakh 01-10-05, 12:31 PM	Here's one use I'm surprised wasn't mentioned: Ghost Sound: Used it to create the sound of my character running off in one direction. Diverted some warriors off course and got a surprise round while they were wondering where my sorc's footprints went.
fredrik_nilsson 01-11-05, 03:20 PM	Here's my take on a few of the 0th leveled cleric spells. Create Water: A friend of mine used this on another friend that had been polymorphed into a fish, since they had a hard time to keep the fish alive. Cure Minor Wounds: Most important, to stabilize dying (below 0hp) characters. Due to the fact that normal NPCs should be low level (1-2 levls), the majority of them should have that many hit points above 10 hp (one use of this spell gives them more than 10% hp back). A few uses of this spell per day, could help a character recover faster from injury (as if threated by a doctor). Guidance: Name a time when a +1 bonus isn't needed. Besides, if the players god shows this benevolent against a NPC in need the player might get a bonus in persuading the NPC to convert to the characters religion. Inflict Minor Wounds: It hurts to lose a hp. This spell could make the character into a torturing inquisitor. Purify Food and Drink: It hurts to lose a hp. This spell could make the character into a torturing inquisitor. Virtue: To counterspell the torturing inquisitor who use Inflict Minor Wounds. Some good combination could be... A life of left-overs: A combined use of Detect Poison and Purify Food and Drink should help the character live on garbage and left-overs. Enhanced Martial Artist: Since all touch attacks can be delivered as part of normal attack, a prepared Inflict Minor Wounds could help increase hand-to-hand damage in emergency situations. Throw in some Virtue spells together with a bunch of Guidance spells, and you might survive a combat that seems almost lost. Baptism Version 2.0: Use create water (to pour on the NPC) and Cure Minor Wounds (to give that "special feeling") on a NPC, as part of the ritual. When he leaves cast Guidance, so that he feels like he could achieve anything.
Rakasha#5 01-11-05, 08:41 PM	Prestidigitation, no exlpanation needed, Light spell (torches are heavy) Ghost sound (distraction or instant far) Cure minor insanely helpful for stabalization, and wounding ability. Dancing lights, makes a good tool in man form, mage hand super pick pocker, arcane mark lots of fun things you can imprint on something like litraly having a guy with LIAR written all over his face. Also create water can be helpful for naval combat, all that water ina boat=sink. Also detect magic is invaluable. Detect poison good for detecting some traps and assasination (god knows how many times my char has had attempted assainations on him.) Flare, same principal as guidance only vice versa, who doesn't ned an enemy with minus 1.
ShadowWarrior 01-11-05, 08:43 PM	Baptism 2.5: You can cast create water and then bless water.
Rakasha#5 01-11-05, 09:02 PM	Area 51= ghost sound,flare, and for good measure dancing lights in humanoid form.
mr.unknown 01-11-05, 09:09 PM	you could practically know exactly every single scroll you pick up/find does with read magic. you could also detect the presence of invisible creatures with detect magic. since invisibility is a magical effect, you'll see feint glows where the invisible creature is. so if you suspect that there are invisible creatures, detect magic is a cheap way to confirm your suspicions.
Kyy'Dakh 01-12-05, 09:12 AM	Though bear in mind that the invisible creature has to be in the area you're scanning for 3 rounds before you can find his location, though you will be aware there is some magic effect in the area right away.
fredrik_nilsson 01-12-05, 01:49 PM	Here's a few more 0th leveled spells. Know Direction: If you always can find your way home, there is no reason to be afraid of being lost. Besides the obvious things, such as always know all directions, this could help a chracter during a city chase. During the chase you mentally know where you started, so you can run seemingly at random, and afterwards return to where you started. Light: The Invisibility spell doesn't make light become invisible (even if the source of the light does), so this spell could be used on a person that you fear might go invisible. You might not know exactly where he is, once he go invisible, but you have at least a clue about where to search. Lullaby Cast this on a guard, while your friends try to sneak by him. Summon Instrument: This removes the need for a Bard to always bring around his instruments, just to be able use his class abilities. Some "Stuck in a dungeon?"-ideas... Instant Lantern: Do you feel the urge to read your spellbook, but your stuck in a dungeon? Why don't you summon an instrument and cast light on it. Instant Life-Saver: Are you stuck in a dungeon with a guy that is boring you to death? Cast lullaby on him, so that he becomes more passive. Once he've lost intrest in you, smack him in the head with a summoned instrument. Instant Party: Creative use of Dancing Lights and Summon Instrument, could be useful for those instant parties. No need to skip a birthday, just because your stuck in a dungeon.
GimliGloinson 01-12-05, 02:10 PM	I've got two stories about the usefulness of 0-level spells: Arcane Mark: A couple of years ago, I was playing a wiz 3 / ftr 1 who had to escape a city by hiring on as a caravan guard. The other guards were all familiar with each other and discovered I was a spellcaster (there were some in the region I started in that were superstitious and suspicious of arcanists). I marked my horse, my saddle, my bags and my tent with Arcane Mark and told them if they messed with anything they would be afflicted by a curse. They left me alone the rest of the trip. Ghost Sound: While playing a gnome illusionist / bard, we had located a group of brigands that outnumbered us about 3 to 1. In order to make them think we had surrounded them, I cast Fog Cloud, Sleet Storm and then Ghost Sound of a large group of armored men approaching from the other side of the road. They fell perfectly into our trap.
Atarmalake Stormspire 01-12-05, 02:12 PM	Prestidigitation is the end all of spells... Love it and use it often. Used Mage Hand once to start a barfight when I pinched the bottom of the local barmaid while she was standing next to the fighter with another party of adventurers... I loved just sitting there and drinking while all heck was breaking lose. just a few thoughts. Lake
Edymnion 01-12-05, 02:40 PM	Some DMs allow a caster to start with ALL of the cantrips available.Um, wouldn't that be every DM that uses the default Wizard? It specifically says that Wizards start play with all 0 lvl spells in their book. Or are you referring to DMs that let the Sorcerer start with all 0 lvl spells known?
fredrik_nilsson 01-12-05, 02:48 PM	Prestidigitation is the end all of spells... The problem is that the book that says that it "lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects", but besides that I agree with you.
Chazmon 01-12-05, 03:00 PM	O level spells hve lots of potential for amusment, in my group "ray of Frost country" refers to an NPC being within 3 HP of death (also criticaling with RoF is great bring on the 6 damage). Also prestigitation for humiliating people (turning a dwarf's beard blue) and cheating at cards. Mending is great for when my wearbear wizard when he breaks his clothes They rock Chazmon