Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Infinitum 05-16-07, 04:57 PM	Alright, so I saw the spell Mindrape in the Book of Vile Darkness and I immediately saw untapped potential. Give me your thoughts on creative ways to use it, be it theoretical or things you could do on a regular basis. I'm interested in what kinds of ideas the community can provide and I await your replies with trepidation.
Miss_Yersinia 05-16-07, 06:11 PM	You can do faaaar to much with it... perhaps you should visit the "Mature Forums", especially since it is dedicated to the more mature books, like the BoVD. But if you go there, note that you have to be old enough, and that you may get weird responses...
Infinitum 05-16-07, 06:14 PM	Meh, I'm not looking for something that is necessarily "mature", and it is magic so I posted it here. Plus, the mature forums are a bit...creepy.
malak92 05-16-07, 06:39 PM	What are the req. for Mindrape spell? sounds like oodles of fun. "asks DM for spell".
Infinitum 05-16-07, 08:02 PM	It's in the Book of Vile Darkness, look it up. How you do doesn't concern me if you catch my drift >.>
NineInchNall 05-16-07, 09:51 PM	Well, given that the spell says that the caster can modify the following "as he sees fit", and given that the spell delineates how "severe changes to personality", "changes to alignment", and "alterations to memories and subtler thoughts", there really is no apparent limit to the changes that one can enact on a target. add memories erase memories alter emotions alter opinions alter alignment At this point, you can enslave targets by altering their opinions, memories, and emotions such that the targets believe you are their master, they love you fanatically, they fear your displeasure, they want you to succeed, they feel no sense of self worth, see no value in anyone but you, etc. You can set up targets as walking time bombs - think along the lines of hypnotic suggestions. You can punish people by turning them into whatever you want. I always wanted to modify the party Paladin so that he thought himself a 12 year old girl obsessed with horsies, etc. I mean, beyond those uses, wtf? You can add memories, so I assume you could add knowledge. So you could seriously use someone as a courier to send secret messages between yourself and another caster who can cast mindrape. You could mess around with stock markets (insider trading) ... But damn.
amatulic 05-16-07, 10:48 PM	Meh, I'm not looking for something that is necessarily "mature", and it is magic so I posted it here. Plus, the mature forums are a bit...creepy. There are mature forums around here? I've had some ideas that I've hesitated to post, but may be appropriate on a 'mature' forum. I didn't know a mature forum existed. Where? -A
allenchan 05-17-07, 12:24 AM	fyi its in the spell compendium under the far less controversial name programmed amnesia. I used it in the Age of Worms to turn the villian's daughter into my love slave/assassin. :D Sweet sweet revenge.
navar100 05-17-07, 02:09 AM	Last campaign my party once found a magical helm that doubles your strength score, permanently, but with the nasty side effect of also changing your alignment. Our War Mind really, really wanted to use it, but he didn't want the alignment change. We kept the item for who knows when it would become useful. The War Mind was also hoping one day to find a way to remove the alignment changing affect while keeping the double strength ability. Then there's my cleric. At character creation I was fortunate to have 16 Strength. Many, many levels later, I benefited from a +4 Strength book, getting a Strength of 20. Later we find the helm and put it away. Several levels later we fight some demons and devils who at the time were in alliance, the Blood War having been put on hold for awhile. I fail my save against Mindrape. Battle over and back home, the party needs to do something about my now evil cleric. They don't know how to cure him, and I certainly wasn't about to tell them. Mindrape does explain how to cure it, but in character I wouldn't want to be cured. I had already wrote a personal note to the DM mentioning the helm and privately laughed. The War Mind did eventually remember it. The rogue knocked me out with two-weapon fighting sap sneak attacks, and with a jealous sigh, the War Mind placed the helm on my unconscious cleric. My character woke up cured to his normal good self but now with a 40 Strength. :D That is the first and last time I'll ever want to deal with Mindrape. :)
Hidden 05-17-07, 03:29 AM	Last campaign my party once found a magical helm that doubles your strength score, permanently, but with the nasty side effect of also changing your alignment. Our War Mind really, really wanted to use it, but he didn't want the alignment change. We kept the item for who knows when it would become useful. The War Mind was also hoping one day to find a way to remove the alignment changing affect while keeping the double strength ability. Then there's my cleric. At character creation I was fortunate to have 16 Strength. Many, many levels later, I benefited from a +4 Strength book, getting a Strength of 20. Later we find the helm and put it away. Several levels later we fight some demons and devils who at the time were in alliance, the Blood War having been put on hold for awhile. I fail my save against Mindrape. Battle over and back home, the party needs to do something about my now evil cleric. They don't know how to cure him, and I certainly wasn't about to tell them. Mindrape does explain how to cure it, but in character I wouldn't want to be cured. I had already wrote a personal note to the DM mentioning the helm and privately laughed. The War Mind did eventually remember it. The rogue knocked me out with two-weapon fighting sap sneak attacks, and with a jealous sigh, the War Mind placed the helm on my unconscious cleric. My character woke up cured to his normal good self but now with a 40 Strength. :D That is the first and last time I'll ever want to deal with Mindrape. :) Man, I would actively HUNT DOWN Blackguards if I had that thing. This reminds me of the story of a PC rogue who used a helm that permanently switched alignments to forcfuly convert a dungeon full of evil monsters into good ones. The DM got PO'ed and told him that robbing people, even evil monsters, of their free will was an evil act and that the rogue was now Evil himself. Supposedly, the player managed to keep a straight face when he told the DM his rogue was putting on his helm...
Infinitum 05-17-07, 06:34 AM	fyi its in the spell compendium under the far less controversial name programmed amnesia. I used it in the Age of Worms to turn the villian's daughter into my love slave/assassin. :D Sweet sweet revenge. Nope. Mindrape is 1 standard action to cast, Programmed Amnesia is a 10 minute cast. Still good though =)
NineInchNall 05-17-07, 09:11 AM	fyi its in the spell compendium under the far less controversial name programmed amnesia. I used it in the Age of Worms to turn the villian's daughter into my love slave/assassin. :D Sweet sweet revenge. Programmed amnesia is a totally different spell with a totally different lineage dating back to before third edition.
Sephiroth Do'Urden 05-17-07, 09:23 AM	I guess that I have to start then: 1. You could use the spell to get rid of a Stalker, a really pesky girlfriend or a neighbour forever!:devil: 2. Convince the King that you are in fact his heir. 3. Convince the DM that you did roll six 18's for your new character.
Infinitum 05-18-07, 10:29 AM	fyi its in the spell compendium under the far less controversial name programmed amnesia. I used it in the Age of Worms to turn the villian's daughter into my love slave/assassin. :D Sweet sweet revenge. Alright, so you are calling the name Mindrape controversial yet you made someone's daughter into your sex slave and personal assassin using something similar? The irony.
CaoSlayer 05-18-07, 11:21 AM	Teach a monkey to dance breakdance.
goawayugh 05-18-07, 11:52 AM	There are mature forums around here? I've had some ideas that I've hesitated to post, but may be appropriate on a 'mature' forum. I didn't know a mature forum existed. Where? -A I forget exactly, but I think you have to put your birthday into your settings and then it will appear in a few days.
Infinitum 05-18-07, 09:16 PM	Come on people, keep the ideas coming =)
Thane26425 05-18-07, 09:32 PM	It wasn't one of these spells, but it was the same effect. Back in 2nd ed., I played under a DM that didn't like me too much. Well, my mage had developed a strong relationship with a certain lady NPC that might have ended in marriage. Now, this evil DM had the party go on a campaign that lasted about a year game time. Party comes home, find out the lady has been seduced and married by a rival of my mage. Told you he didn't like me. So, my mage developed a spell like this one and used it to program the mind of his rival with all the pain, misery and betrayal my mage felt, basically replacing the "good" emotions the rival had for the lady with those. Add a geas to keep him from removing it for a year and he had his revenge.
Hidden 05-19-07, 01:42 AM	Use it to gather some REALLY powerful monsters by reprogramming them to think that your parents raised them from a pup along with you. *Sniff* it's always good to see brothers working together... Better yet, set it up so they think another party member is their brother making sure you arrange it ahead of time so that if the MR is reversed the other player can claim to have also been under the spell and wants to help the monster hunt down the mage that did this (while really giving the mage time to recast the spell). Or,for a hilarious practical joke, make a succubus think that it's a lawful good human rogue (LG Rogue so she won't try to use skills she doesn't have) who's engaged with the parties fighter...
amatulic 05-19-07, 12:48 PM	I forget exactly, but I think you have to put your birthday into your settings and then it will appear in a few days. Thanks. I have a habit of leaving the optional parts of my profile blank. Nobody needs to know that I'm in my 40s... oops. -A
BardicEvil 04-20-08, 06:50 PM	fyi its in the spell compendium under the far less controversial name programmed amnesia. I used it in the Age of Worms to turn the villian's daughter into my love slave/assassin. :D Sweet sweet revenge. In addition to the casting time difference noted above, there's also a few other basic differences in the two spells. Mindrape used to drastically alter a personality or alignment can be beaten by break enchantment. Programmed amnesia can be countered by Greater Restoration, regardless of use. Mindrape lets you learn everything that the target knows. It's like a really souped up Mind Probe in addition to the ability to totally mess with their brain. Programmed amnesia can be given a hanging trigger that either enacts the changes or turns them off. For a good example of this, check out the Babylon 5 TV series. That being said, Mindrape is an excellent way to subborn an enemy since you learn everything they know, so you can create or alter beliefs/knowledge/encounters in order to make a better rewrite. It's also excellent just as an intelligence gathering spell. Grab an enemy commander, drop them in the middle of a mind fog (to lower that will save!) and hit them with this. You now know whatever they know about troop strength, disposition, resources, training, contingency plans, any secret ways into his liege's castle, knowledge of security, etc. Since you can alter opinions, etc. You can also really effect any country ruled by council. Suddenly they dislike the concept of public works and instead favor heavy taxation and conscription to raise an army "for the good of the country". Or if someone has special knowledge, use this to wipe it, then kill them. Then the information can't simply be recovered using speak with dead finally "dead men tell no tales" works in D&D again! They'll have to res the poor schmuck then use a wish or miracle just to get the info. Then there's always the tried and true method of shocking the PCs. Turn their loved ones into assassins, cloak them in illusion and cloth. Imagine the looks on their faces when they unmask the attackers in the night's corpses only to see their own loved ones' faces! Really, I love Programmed Amnesia (also 9th level) for the concept of the triggered effect. If you can hit enough of a ruler's guards with this (which requires getting them alone and tied up for a bit due tot he casting time), you can program them to help you when a code phrase is used. Nothing like the look on the king's face when 80% of his personal guard turn and try to slaughter him when a visiting noble talks about his favorite steed. After all, noone says that you have to be the one to use the trigger phrase. :schemes: Or turn some guards into bloodthirsty killers until sunrise at which point, they forget everything and help search for the "heinous murderous beasts" who attached their fair city. In short, any mind altering spell is limited only by your imagination, your GM's forbearance, and the commonality of spells that protect from such things.
Bloodsoul 04-20-08, 10:32 PM	I wonder if you could cast it on Joe Farmer to make him believe he doesn't exist?
green_yawgmoth 04-21-08, 09:37 AM	Go watch The Manchurian Candidate (the one with Sinatra, not the crappy remake). Enjoy your unassuming assassins.
Wheldrake 04-21-08, 04:10 PM	Some spells just go too far. Why couldn't they just call in "brainwash"? Seems like the effect. I suppose all those things would be achievable through wish, anyway. Just makes it cheap to be able, without the massive xp loss. Of course, as a DM I would make it a temporary and flawed procedure. A mind is a terrible thing to lay waste to. Cheers, --- Wheldrake
setekh 04-21-08, 04:28 PM	Some spells just go too far. Why couldn't they just call in "brainwash"? Seems like the effect. I suppose all those things would be achievable through wish, anyway. Just makes it cheap to be able, without the massive xp loss. Of course, as a DM I would make it a temporary and flawed procedure. A mind is a terrible thing to lay waste to. Cheers, --- Wheldrake Because the spell is a vile assault upon the mind? The name isn't used simply to shock, it is there to tell you just what the use of such despicable evil amounts to. Rape of the mind.
Matthais777 04-21-08, 05:31 PM	Best use ever? My villian character comnte used it on a paladin and had him revert all his memory so that he was a blackguard, and then turned him loose on his own party. Ouuuuchy. But yeah, mindrape is MUCH worse than simply brainwash. Besides the time issue, you can't TAKE a person's memories with brainwashing (Bury them, yes, force them out of them, yes, but you don't TAKE them.)
Meldread 04-21-08, 11:38 PM	Ever loved someone and they didn't love you back? Fix that situation with this spell. Ever had someone love you, but you didn't return their affections, but also didn't want to hurt their feelings? No problem. Fix it with this spell. Ever wanted to rule a nation without having to invade with a massive army? Get close to a king and use this spell to turn him into a puppet. Repeat on other kings and have an instant empire. Are you one of those people who just can't stand it when people don't like you? Your life can suddenly become much easier with this spell. Have a problem? When used intelligently this spell can solve almost anything.
HighPriestMikhal 04-22-08, 02:09 PM	You're all sick motherfathers (that's a real "Utah swear," BTW). I love it. Sadly I didn't get the BoVD until after my group disbanded, so I've never had a chance to test my own sick designs for this nefarious spell. Imagine it like a true domination that's a charm-effect (the person wants to do whatever, since that's what was programmed, as opposed to doing it because the caster controls their actions like a puppeteer). That's what makes the spell so evil. It doesn't force people to go against their will; it changes that very will itself.
ryuspearhead 04-22-08, 09:23 PM	To remove the will of one to fight to get free drinks to win friends to change an evil doers way to erase a bad experience(aka break up)
RPJesus 04-22-08, 09:45 PM	Make someone believe that they're a little teapot, short and stout? :D Seems like you could pull some deathnote-style **** with this (convince people to kill themselves etc.)
ryuspearhead 04-22-08, 09:59 PM	Seems like you could pull some deathnote-style **** with this (convince people to kill themselves etc.) That more like the main character in Lost+Brains :p
RPJesus 04-22-08, 11:00 PM	Lost what now? Although I suppose if somebody honestly believed they were having a heart attack, their body would logically follow suit (The mind is a powerful thing)
GuyrtheadamantineOne 04-23-08, 12:23 AM	Why not a memory removing service, to help people recover from tearful, painful or thraumatizing memories? (A lot like Lacuna in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.)
Thief_of_Hope 04-23-08, 12:49 AM	Why not a memory removing service, to help people recover from tearful, painful or thraumatizing memories? (A lot like Lacuna in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.) I think the pure irony of using a spell called "mindrape", from the Book of Vile Darkness, in order to better the lives of people, is just too good. Fantastic. :thumbsup:
ryuspearhead 04-23-08, 03:41 PM	Lost what now? Although I suppose if somebody honestly believed they were having a heart attack, their body would logically follow suit (The mind is a powerful thing) Lost+brains a death note copy about a genius student with hypnosis power causing evil people to kill them selfs most of the time via sucide bombinngs
GuyrtheadamantineOne 04-23-08, 05:16 PM	I think the pure irony of using a spell called "mindrape", from the Book of Vile Darkness, in order to better the lives of people, is just too good. Fantastic. :thumbsup: Well thank you young Sir! Such praise warms my heart. :)
nobodez_here 04-25-08, 02:51 AM	Well, mindrape is certainly an interesting spell. For the enterprising young emperor, it's a quick trip to power. For the resourceful LE dictator, it's a way to control the populace subtly. Prison stays only last as long as it takes for a spot to open up in the mindrape schedule, then it's back to work as a perfect cog in the machine. For the lonely archmage, it's the perfect harem (nymphs, dryads, Dex 20 elven maidens, etc.), guarded by the perfect guards (invisible stalkers, great gold wyrms, titans, etc.). Heck, I'd just use to as the heart of my LE dictator's machine. He'd of course be an epic level focused enchanter/telepath/cerebromancer/thrallherd/archmage at least eight levels above when he was able to cast 9th level spells. Just mind seed someone, then mindrape your mental clone into the perfect, willing, servant. The mind seed would not have had the opportunity to prepare spells, and so could not mindrape you in return. IF you were smart enough to mindrape the original subject, you can then give your mind seed all the memories that he/she needs to play the part all proper-like.
serpentcross 04-25-08, 10:05 AM	I used that as a DM against a PC. There was this halfling cleric little girl that wanted to be taken seriously by the party. He was contacted by a servant of Malcanthet (she is scrying the party since they got a certain item) and she granted her a gorgeous human body and a trinket to shift in that form at will. Later... she felt mistreated again by the party, she wanted to feign her death and play the part of this human girl. The servant of malcanthet came back and this is when the mindrape kicked in... she doesn't remember to have been an halfling, but she does remember to have found the halfling equipment in a stain of blood and many details about her human life. And of course she is now a cleric of malcanthet. sort of wish spell gone bad...
cjhobbitbane 04-25-08, 11:44 AM	snip That doesnt make any sense.... My favorite use was when i used it to convince an entire small city into thinking they were capable of flight.
serpentcross 04-25-08, 12:26 PM	That doesnt make any sense.... why???
cjhobbitbane 04-25-08, 02:47 PM	why??? i dont understand what you were trying to say. i think you went into too much detail and lost the main idea.