Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Necromas 09-17-06, 09:31 PM	Okay, it seems a common idea flying around is that you can make really cheap magic items by having them usable less then once per day. The cost reduction rule is, "Charges per day = Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)" And the argument for the 1/week cost is that it is usable 1/7th times a day, and has it's cost reduced thusly. Some people have extended the rule ridiculously to the point of items usable 1/month or 1/year and basically getting a single casting of a spell for free. My argument is that it's NOT usbale 1/7th times per day, using it 1/7th of a time would mean that the item would fail to function, and by the 1/7th times a day argument, it never can be used 1/week, because you would need to somehow build up 7 days worth of 1/7th uses, just as you cannot build up 7 days worth of single uses and use a 1/day item 7 times at once after not using it for a week. A rebuttle I have heard is that 1/week items exist in several books, and are likewise cheaper then 1/day items, thus it is perfectly fair to create 1/week items, thus you can apply the 1/7th uses per day rule to it. I'm sure this is a fallacy with a specific name for it, but I cant remember anything from my english classes. Just because an item exists, does not mean that you can recreate it using the item creation rules. Just because an anchor feather token exists, does not mean you can create similar items under the item creation rules. I'm hoping that this is an understandable argument why a 1/10 years ring of wishes made for uber cheap doesn't fly.
Chrono Nexus 09-17-06, 09:39 PM	I'm hoping that this is an understandable argument why a 1/10 years ring of wishes made for uber cheap doesn't fly. Well, I would say that the cost reductions only applies to certain aspects of said ring... the reduction would not include the additional price of the ring from experience costs. Otherwise, it makes sense to me. However- Creating powerful once-week usage items might be cheaper, but it still requires that the one creating it be powerful (minimum cl and all), so I don't think the concept is broken by the time the players can make the item themselves.
Loki5654 09-17-06, 10:18 PM	I'd like to interject and make this obligatory comment: "Any item not in the DMG must be approved by the DM. The item creation guidelines presented in the DMG are just that, guidelines. As always, Rule Zero applies. Thank You, That Is All."
questionc 09-18-06, 01:53 AM	Okay, it seems a common idea flying around is that you can make really cheap magic items by having them usable less then once per day. The cost reduction rule is, "Charges per day = Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)" And the argument for the 1/week cost is that it is usable 1/7th times a day, and has it's cost reduced thusly. Some people have extended the rule ridiculously to the point of items usable 1/month or 1/year and basically getting a single casting of a spell for free. My argument is that it's NOT usbale 1/7th times per day, using it 1/7th of a time would mean that the item would fail to function, and by the 1/7th times a day argument, it never can be used 1/week, because you would need to somehow build up 7 days worth of 1/7th uses, just as you cannot build up 7 days worth of single uses and use a 1/day item 7 times at once after not using it for a week. A rebuttle I have heard is that 1/week items exist in several books, and are likewise cheaper then 1/day items, thus it is perfectly fair to create 1/week items, thus you can apply the 1/7th uses per day rule to it. I'm sure this is a fallacy with a specific name for it, but I cant remember anything from my english classes. Just because an item exists, does not mean that you can recreate it using the item creation rules. Just because an anchor feather token exists, does not mean you can create similar items under the item creation rules. I'm hoping that this is an understandable argument why a 1/10 years ring of wishes made for uber cheap doesn't fly. Something you might want to note: If making an item which has an XP cost, with unlimited charges, determine cost as if it had 100 charges. If making an item which has an XP cost, with a daily limit, determine cost as if it had 50 charges. A 5/day item costs as if it had 50 charges. A 3/day item costs as if it had 50 charges. A 1/day item costs as if it had 50 charges. Following this trend, a 1/7 /day item would cost as if it had 50 charges. At least that covers items of wish. Items like say, a magic carpet that works 1/week would still be cheap, but that's much less abusive. Incidentally, in this particular situation there's RAW that seems to support you, but that's not allways the case. Even if by RAW you could make a practically free ring of yearly wish, the DM has authority in everything, and should stop this kind of nonsence.
Seeker95 09-18-06, 09:28 AM	The cost of a 1/week item is the same as a 1/day item. Adding the 1/week restriction is a DM's way of reducing its use in the game, not a player's attempt to cut the price.
Daosus 09-18-06, 10:31 AM	This type of thinking is where your DM comes in. You are entirely correct in thinking that this is ridiculous, although I don't agree with how you arrived at that logic, but whatever works, right? A less than single use/day item, and especially the ones with longer times between uses are a particular case of magic item creation formulae being ineffective.
Borne Of Hate 09-18-06, 10:45 AM	I would let him make it. And let him make it for that cheap. BUT Since the ring was made so cheaply, I would say that the wish can be made after the ten years are up. THEN I would role a percentile per year to see if the ring becomes cursed based on the weak magics that were used to bind such a powerful spell. But then again, I am an evil DM
tarkin 09-18-06, 10:57 AM	:rolleyes: The arguement for a 1/week being that cheap is a bunch of crap. Let's do it the RIGHT way. once /ever costs 25 x level x level 5/day costs 1800 x level x level once/day costs 1800/5 x level x level So once/ever costs exactly 1/72 of 5/day, or 1/14.4 times a 1/day. At 1/7 the per day cost, once/week cost almost twice what a once ever costs? :looloo: Nope. Tell me another one. I got a bridge to sell you. Once/year is the most reasonable thing that might be comparable to 1/ever. So lets start off at once/year = 1/10 price of a once/day item, (and also state that once/year if made, is effectively considered USED when made, so it takes a year before it is useable.). Once/month could be 1/5 the price of a once/day item and that would be fair to sell. with the same counts as used when made. Once/week should be 1/2 the price of a once/day item.