Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Roreck 06-14-05, 06:48 PM	ok I need advice on what spells to take on my next level up. I am level 3 wizard curently, will probably reach level 4 soon and I need advice on what 2nd level wizard spells to take. I already have Scorching Ray and Mirror Image, and I was considering taking Resist Energy but I could not decide on another level 2 spell. My character is sneaky kelpto wizard who does not mind going down the dark path anymore than going down the good one as long as in the end it benifts him and no grandious damage is done. Any advice whould be apreciated. ps if it helps my I am not a specialist and my 1st level spells are, Magic Missile, Mage Armor, Shield, Identify, Color Spray, Sleep, Protection from Evil, Disguise Self, and True Strike.
Dragonsblood 06-14-05, 07:29 PM	Take Knock first (how else are you going to open an Arcane Locked spell book from enemy wizards?) Other nice ones are Invisibility, Glitterdust, Protection from Arrows, and Web.
smrtgmp 06-14-05, 08:05 PM	Alter self is great. Its extreamly versitile, and has many uses both in and out of combat. In a fight you can take the form of something with good natural armor and natural attacks (trogledyte has +6 natural armor). Since you get the modes of movement of the form you assume, you can also use the spell to swim, breathe water, climb, or (if you're in FR) fly. Rope Trick would also be good. If you get caught doing something unsavery you can throw up an obscuring mist and then follow it with a ropetrick. By the time the mist clears they will probably think you are gone. Dont try this too much at later levels, but it works very well at the level you're at, as many enemies have no means of detecting magic. Obscure object will allow you to hide a stolen item. Sounds like something you might have a use for. Misdirection can help in this department as well. I would spend some of your money on scrolls as well so that you can copy them into your spellbook. Its always good to have a lot of options as a wizard.
mvincent 06-14-05, 08:14 PM	If you're doing any dungeon crawling, rope trick can be a priceless tool for you (and your party) to recover spells. Otherwise, I use hideous laughter a lot (it's effectively a "save or die" type spell).
Roreck 06-14-05, 08:22 PM	question about rope trick what happens if you bring a bag of holding into a rope trick space? the phb warns that bringing a extrademensional space into another extrademensional space is dangerous what happens exactly tryed looking in the srd under bag of holding but nothing came up
Vaelan 06-14-05, 08:39 PM	question about rope trick what happens if you bring a bag of holding into a rope trick space? the phb warns that bringing a extrademensional space into another extrademensional space is dangerous what happens exactly tryed looking in the srd under bag of holding but nothing came up No, it says that bringing an extradimensional space into a nondimensional space (or the other way around) is dangerous. It tends to open up a portal to the Astral Plane. The only item that creates a nondimensional space is a portable hole.
Muddball 06-15-05, 03:13 AM	Take Knock first (how else are you going to open an Arcane Locked spell book from enemy wizards?) Other nice ones are Invisibility, Glitterdust, Protection from Arrows, and Web. Gliterdust would be a hard spell to use when your sneeking around and the other two have higher level choices (Improved Invis and Reverse Arrows, respectively) Web sounds more his speed, as leaveing one as a quick trap (calantrops and then web over them) can get him out once the guards show up
Dragonsblood 06-15-05, 05:13 AM	He can't use higher level spells yet, so until he gets those, invis and protection from arrows would be useful. Glitterdust blinds multiple creatures, it doesn't just make things visable (but it doesn't hurt to be a bit well rounded anyway). What's Reverse Arrows from? I don't see it in the PHB.
mvincent 06-15-05, 11:31 AM	No, it says that bringing an extradimensional space into a nondimensional space (or the other way around) is dangerous.They're actually the same thing. From the portable hole description: "When spread upon any surface, it causes an extradimensional space 10 feet deep to come into being. " "Each portable hole opens on its own particular nondimensional space." But bags/holes can still freely go into a rope trick, despite the ominous warning. From the 3.0 FAQ (which is still applicable here since they haven't changed these items): "It’s a general rule that you can’t mix items containing nondimensional or extradimensional spaces (things that are bigger inside than out) with each other or with portable holes. Such combinations tend to strain the fabric of the cosmos. Putting one bag of holding within another is just like putting the bag into a portable hole. Items that function like bags of holding, such as Heward’s handy haversacks, cause the same mishaps when mishandled. Note you can freely go plane hopping with portable holes, bags of holding, and the like. Spells that produce their own extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, pose no danger to occupants who may be using portable holes, bags of holding, and the like."
CaoSlayer 06-15-05, 11:53 AM	Otherwise, I use hideous laughter a lot (it's effectively a "save or die" type spell). I usually refer to those spells as "save or be very screwed"
Thanatos02 06-15-05, 12:28 PM	I don't know if it's by the concept, but as useful Level 2 spells go, I always try to make room for Shatter. It's just really useful. Its destruction of crystal or glass and its harming of crystalline creatures are neat, but secondary. It's best use is the destruction of solid objects up to 10 pounds per caster level. First off, it gets rid of non-magical weapons and armor, which is nice. At early levels, there are pleanty of non-magical bits of equipment on NPCs and monsters. Fighter-types usually have skimpy Will Saves, so it'll usually work, and put you at a very real advantage. Second, doors, hinges, equipment, winches, and other crucial bits can usually be destroyed with ease. While I don't think it can burrow through walls or anything (contiguous item), many people would give the nod to specific bits like in the above examples. (If you glue a sword to the wall, it's still a sword, not part of the wall.) It's got pleanty of uses. My party scoffed at me before using it, but after they tried it, they liked it. (Of course, the problem is, when your only tool is a hammer, all the problems look like nails. i.e. - they end up breaking stuff a lot.)
tarkin 06-15-05, 01:18 PM	I like the following Attack: Scorching Ray (4d6 at 3rd level) Great later on Web, good now, and also useful for catching falling things. Defense: Mirror Image False Life Utilitarian: Alter Self Detect Thoughts
Rhadamanthus 06-15-05, 09:28 PM	Never forget Fox's Cunning as a buff spell. I'd say an automatic +2 to your spell's DCs is worthy of that cause. Also, never underestimate the usefulness of Spectral Hand . Especially painful when you have Vampiric Touch at later levels. 2nd level is usually the spell level I consider to be the "utility" level for arcane casters. Offensive spells at low levels are best kept to the 1st and 3rd level spells(except for scorching ray). Keep that in mind when you make your spell selection.
Father Dale 06-15-05, 11:34 PM	As Rhadamanthus said, 2nd lvl spells are most useful for utility spells. Good 2nd lvl spells: False Life (an extra 11-20 hps) See Invis Invis Alter Self Spectral Hand Knock Detect Thoughts Command Undead (mindless undead don't get to save) Protection from Arrows locate object spider climb rope trick darkvision
Dragonsblood 06-16-05, 02:07 AM	I'm curious why no one likes Melf's Acid Arrow?
Eaglos 06-16-05, 02:48 AM	My thought exactly, maybe a few trolls would change their mind :D To the original poster, what's your campaign like? What's the theme? What monsters do you normally encounter? How do you get new spells? Do you just flip through various books and pick what you want or does your DM present you with a list from the local mageware shop? What books do you use? Gives us some details so we can propose spells that could be more usefull fo you.
Kullak-Kobold Sorcerer 06-16-05, 03:03 AM	Your spell selection should also reflect your feat selection. Scribe scroll and craft wand beg for utility spells. You never know when you might need a ..... With craft wonderous items or brew potions, buff spells are very important. With craft arms and armor, most offensive magics are used. Otherwise, we look into the catagories of ofense, defense and utility. Scorching Ray handles offense and Mirror Image handles defense, Glitterdust can function as a utility or offensive spell while Invisibility can function as a utility or defensive spell. I agree that Resist Energy is a good spell to take. Spectral Hand and Rope Trick can be useful at higher levels. If it were me, I would make sure I had Craft Wonderous Items and take the spells Bear's Endurance and Fox's Cunning. Both spells will be used to bolster you in the near future.
cowdragon 06-16-05, 08:30 AM	If your Wiz likes to steal things then Entice Gift can be truly humorous. It's one of my favorite second level spells. Use it to disarm annoying opponents...wether they're using a sword or a wand or even a staff against you. FUN! The Cowdragon :mage:
Roreck 06-16-05, 11:11 AM	ok my feat selection thus far: Combat Casting, Toughness (laugh if you will buy i need double digit hp) and Persuasive (fit character concept and made up for a low CHA which also fit character concept so hard to make a loner a good lyer) As for what books we have CORE and also Complete Warrior (my bet does not have many spells if any) I am allowed to take any spells from core. I want my wizard to have the a good variety of Protection spells and buffs as well as utility/disabling spells and still be able to dish out damage/be sneaky(am I asking to much?) Spells that I am considering based on others posts: Rope Trick, False Life, Invis, Command Undead, Protection from Arrows, Alter Self, Fox's Cunning (for item creation later) As for what we normally face so far goblins and human bandits mostly, DM said when we started that he wanted to use more of the uper level creatures in the MM. I do not have an MM so I have no idea what is in there other than goblins and the Tarrasque (and I don't really want to face either)
cowdragon 06-17-05, 08:15 AM	Sorry, I somehow missed the CORE part. It looks like you've got a pretty great spell selection already. What do you use for offensive ability? Just curious. The Cowdragon :mage:
Roreck 06-17-05, 08:53 AM	My only damage dealing spells are Scorching Ray and the all powerful magic missle (my whole group thinks it is weak but I love it) granted that is only two spells but two spells that kick arse
journeyman777 06-17-05, 09:28 AM	My top 4 1. Invisibility- great for getting in/out of places, buying you time to buff during combat, spying, all kind of good stuff (a must have for kleptos) 2. Alter Self- I love the combination of disguise and combat utility in a single spell. Since you already have disguise self and a few good defense spells, you can probably wait for this one 3. Shatter- The uses are endless. (Scroll up a ways and someone already pointed this out very well) 4. Levitate- Complete protection from non-ranged attackers is sweet indeed. Combo it with Protection from Missiles and you can snipe most enemies to death. Also useful for making second story entrances and escapes ;) BTW: You really should try to get your hands on Complete Adventurer. Some of the lvl 1 spells in it are absolutely wonderful for klepto mages!