3 Puzzles: Shapechange, Clone, Magic Jar.. [Archive] - Wizards Community

3 Puzzles: Shapechange, Clone, Magic Jar.. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sabrewolf
06-17-05, 04:59 AM Not sure if any of this have been asked before and intended for a magi with Shapechange, Clone, Magic Jar and enough time, resources, a good lab/tower and a hint of madness.. :looloo: :plotting: :evillaugh

Scene 1:

After Shapechanged any piece separated from you does not revert to true shape so you can get, say, some blood for a component for casting Clone.

:thinks: Puzzle: If i cast Clone, my new souless-body will be of my true self or the shapechanged one??

Scene 2:

Considering I´ve cast Clone, grew up the body in a safe, specially preppared environment and then cast Magic Jar with the gem between us 2, 5´from each thus within range.

:thinks: Puzzle: Since the Clone body is mine aswell, if my soul leap into it does the Clone spell ends with me (happily) there inside the new body and my former plain normal-looking wizzard self wilthers and dies??

:thinks: Puzzle 2 (I can be either at equal distances from each body or not. Please, comment if distance is a matter in this case) : If i sit inside the gem untill the Magic Jar spell expires, since both bodies are mine and are supposedly in suspended animation expecting my soul to get inside, in wich body will my soul end up at ??

And a mind :cookie: to finish, assuming all this madness worked somehow and i´m happily inside a new body with al EX and Supernatural goodies it have. Would a wish ´restore´ any other powers that would supposedly be of the new body´s kind and race (spell-like and other such that shapechange does not grant) ???
sabrewolf
06-19-05, 04:54 AM :bump: What? not a single comment? Not a ruling or guessing? :bigeyes:

For that I can only wonder, where are the overly-curious sorcerers ever-searching new ways to channel their powers?
Where are the evil worlocks that dwell with the less known bits of ocult lore and shaddy paths of magic?
And where, oh where, are the elder sages with their enormous libraries and their excessively eager and un-wise apprentices allways using spells higher then they can controll, hmm??

Can only guess they are busy with some other experiment... Time i have aplenty, afterall, it´s not like we´re on some ancient abandoned stone temple in the middle of a desert, eh? :twitch:
Lyinginbedmon
06-19-05, 08:35 AM Scene 1, Puzzle #1: The new cloned body would be that of the shapechanged form, as the effect does not wear of once the body portion is separated, at least until the spell wears off, but it can be made permanent (IIRK) with a permanency spell
Scene 2, Puzzle #1: The clone spell only takes full effect once the caster dies, not when it's soul leaves its body, so the magic jar would return you to your original body
Puzzle #2: The cloned body would not accept the soul until the original body is dead

Interesting tidbit, the absolute ultimate villain in my campaign world (Grimdolf Fanelia, Human, 20 Clr/15 Rng/20 Rog/20 Sor = Lvl75) uses clone combined with a temporal stasis spell and a special case which de-activates the temporal stasis upon his death, allowing him to sustain the clones almost indefinitely.
sabrewolf
06-20-05, 02:59 AM Scene 1, Puzzle #1: The new cloned body would be that of the shapechanged form, as the effect does not wear of once the body portion is separated, at least until the spell wears off, but it can be made permanent (IIRK) with a permanency spell

Well, considering the Clone spell is instantaneous, i guess the Shapechange´s duration is only relevant during the Clone casting.. Hmmm.. At the cost of 1500 gp, a special lab, the time for growing the clone and one level.. seems a fair price for an instantaneous shapechange..

That would mean one could aquire a template or change his race completely, yet would not get any magical or spell-like qualities / abilities (keeping their own) and keep their normal life span since their souls remain unchanged.. Though a wish or a personal quest might ´fix´ that.. :w00t: ..and another plot-seed is planted..

Scene 2, Puzzle #1: The clone spell only takes full effect once the caster dies, not when it's soul leaves its body, so the magic jar would return you to your original body
Puzzle #2: The cloned body would not accept the soul until the original body is dead

Right, then the normal mechanics would not work fully untill the original body is dead...

:plotting: Still, i could use Magic Jar to possess the new body and use it to kill / coup de grace the former body, hmm? :evillaugh ..or if i had another to care / grow the body, i could use myself (the body) as the component for the Clone spell.

Hmmm.. :twitch: suddenly, the mere thought of now being able to do a ´bloodtheft´ attack on myself is... insane.. eh :uh-huh:
MrkGrismer
06-20-05, 10:53 AM No using magic jar on dead things: "While in the magic jar, you can sense and attack any life force within 10 feet per caster level", only things with a life force. Although "Only sentient undead creatures have, or are, souls"

You could of course simply kill yourself, thus transferring to the clone.
sabrewolf
06-20-05, 08:13 PM No using magic jar on dead things: "While in the magic jar, you can sense and attack any life force within 10 feet per caster level", only things with a life force. Although "Only sentient undead creatures have, or are, souls"

Ahh, yes.. thanks for reminding me about it.

You could of course simply kill yourself, thus transferring to the clone.

Yep, that or use myself as material component.. or mke some overly-complicated way to infuse the clone with life-force without a soul, wich i can say though somewhat mad i´m not crazy enough to exercise such a train of thoght.
mbfu3k
06-20-05, 10:37 PM or mke some overly-complicated way to infuse the clone with life-force without a soul

Cast a Persistent Shapechange, cut off a finger (or such) and use it as the component/target for the spell Hide Life (from T&B), then use it for the component for the spell Clone.

Additionally, it could be argued that using the finger as the component for the Clone spell destroys it, ending the Hide Life spell. If you would "otherwise be dead" at the time, completing the Clone kills you, which then causes your soul to transfer to the Clone.

Of course, this requires a 3.0 spell that hasn't been reprinted, and a 15th level spell slot. If you're actually playing in a 3.0 game, this is perfectly valid, and only requires a 13th level spell slot.

Edit: Oh, and it costs 5,000 XP. But seems worth it for the result.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sabrewolf 06-17-05, 04:59 AM	Not sure if any of this have been asked before and intended for a magi with Shapechange, Clone, Magic Jar and enough time, resources, a good lab/tower and a hint of madness.. :looloo: :plotting: :evillaugh Scene 1: After Shapechanged any piece separated from you does not revert to true shape so you can get, say, some blood for a component for casting Clone. :thinks: Puzzle: If i cast Clone, my new souless-body will be of my true self or the shapechanged one?? Scene 2: Considering I´ve cast Clone, grew up the body in a safe, specially preppared environment and then cast Magic Jar with the gem between us 2, 5´from each thus within range. :thinks: Puzzle: Since the Clone body is mine aswell, if my soul leap into it does the Clone spell ends with me (happily) there inside the new body and my former plain normal-looking wizzard self wilthers and dies?? :thinks: Puzzle 2 (I can be either at equal distances from each body or not. Please, comment if distance is a matter in this case) : If i sit inside the gem untill the Magic Jar spell expires, since both bodies are mine and are supposedly in suspended animation expecting my soul to get inside, in wich body will my soul end up at ?? And a mind :cookie: to finish, assuming all this madness worked somehow and i´m happily inside a new body with al EX and Supernatural goodies it have. Would a wish ´restore´ any other powers that would supposedly be of the new body´s kind and race (spell-like and other such that shapechange does not grant) ???
sabrewolf 06-19-05, 04:54 AM	:bump: What? not a single comment? Not a ruling or guessing? :bigeyes: For that I can only wonder, where are the overly-curious sorcerers ever-searching new ways to channel their powers? Where are the evil worlocks that dwell with the less known bits of ocult lore and shaddy paths of magic? And where, oh where, are the elder sages with their enormous libraries and their excessively eager and un-wise apprentices allways using spells higher then they can controll, hmm?? Can only guess they are busy with some other experiment... Time i have aplenty, afterall, it´s not like we´re on some ancient abandoned stone temple in the middle of a desert, eh? :twitch:
Lyinginbedmon 06-19-05, 08:35 AM	Scene 1, Puzzle #1: The new cloned body would be that of the shapechanged form, as the effect does not wear of once the body portion is separated, at least until the spell wears off, but it can be made permanent (IIRK) with a permanency spell Scene 2, Puzzle #1: The clone spell only takes full effect once the caster dies, not when it's soul leaves its body, so the magic jar would return you to your original body Puzzle #2: The cloned body would not accept the soul until the original body is dead Interesting tidbit, the absolute ultimate villain in my campaign world (Grimdolf Fanelia, Human, 20 Clr/15 Rng/20 Rog/20 Sor = Lvl75) uses clone combined with a temporal stasis spell and a special case which de-activates the temporal stasis upon his death, allowing him to sustain the clones almost indefinitely.
sabrewolf 06-20-05, 02:59 AM	Scene 1, Puzzle #1: The new cloned body would be that of the shapechanged form, as the effect does not wear of once the body portion is separated, at least until the spell wears off, but it can be made permanent (IIRK) with a permanency spell Well, considering the Clone spell is instantaneous, i guess the Shapechange´s duration is only relevant during the Clone casting.. Hmmm.. At the cost of 1500 gp, a special lab, the time for growing the clone and one level.. seems a fair price for an instantaneous shapechange.. That would mean one could aquire a template or change his race completely, yet would not get any magical or spell-like qualities / abilities (keeping their own) and keep their normal life span since their souls remain unchanged.. Though a wish or a personal quest might ´fix´ that.. :w00t: ..and another plot-seed is planted.. Scene 2, Puzzle #1: The clone spell only takes full effect once the caster dies, not when it's soul leaves its body, so the magic jar would return you to your original body Puzzle #2: The cloned body would not accept the soul until the original body is dead Right, then the normal mechanics would not work fully untill the original body is dead... :plotting: Still, i could use Magic Jar to possess the new body and use it to kill / coup de grace the former body, hmm? :evillaugh ..or if i had another to care / grow the body, i could use myself (the body) as the component for the Clone spell. Hmmm.. :twitch: suddenly, the mere thought of now being able to do a ´bloodtheft´ attack on myself is... insane.. eh :uh-huh:
MrkGrismer 06-20-05, 10:53 AM	No using magic jar on dead things: "While in the magic jar, you can sense and attack any life force within 10 feet per caster level", only things with a life force. Although "Only sentient undead creatures have, or are, souls" You could of course simply kill yourself, thus transferring to the clone.
sabrewolf 06-20-05, 08:13 PM	No using magic jar on dead things: "While in the magic jar, you can sense and attack any life force within 10 feet per caster level", only things with a life force. Although "Only sentient undead creatures have, or are, souls" Ahh, yes.. thanks for reminding me about it. You could of course simply kill yourself, thus transferring to the clone. Yep, that or use myself as material component.. or mke some overly-complicated way to infuse the clone with life-force without a soul, wich i can say though somewhat mad i´m not crazy enough to exercise such a train of thoght.
mbfu3k 06-20-05, 10:37 PM	or mke some overly-complicated way to infuse the clone with life-force without a soul Cast a Persistent Shapechange, cut off a finger (or such) and use it as the component/target for the spell Hide Life (from T&B), then use it for the component for the spell Clone. Additionally, it could be argued that using the finger as the component for the Clone spell destroys it, ending the Hide Life spell. If you would "otherwise be dead" at the time, completing the Clone kills you, which then causes your soul to transfer to the Clone. Of course, this requires a 3.0 spell that hasn't been reprinted, and a 15th level spell slot. If you're actually playing in a 3.0 game, this is perfectly valid, and only requires a 13th level spell slot. Edit: Oh, and it costs 5,000 XP. But seems worth it for the result.