3.0 Haste conversion [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.0 Haste conversion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DarkSorcerer
02-07-07, 03:14 PM What would be the spell level of the 3.0 spell Haste AS WRITTEN. (From the 3.0 SRD)

Haste
Transmutation
Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
The transmuted creature moves and acts more quickly than normal. This extra speed has several effects.
On its turn, the subject may take an extra partial action, either before or after its regular action.
The subject gains a +4 haste bonus to AC. The subject loses this bonus whenever it would lose a dodge bonus.
The subject can jump one and a half times as far as normal. This increase counts as an enhancement bonus.
Haste dispels and counters slow.
Loki5654
02-07-07, 03:25 PM Ummm...Three?
Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Lord_Tirian
02-07-07, 03:33 PM Ummm...Three?
I think he meant what the spell level *should* be - and I've seen a number of threads 'bout it before:

Some (and I think the same way) in this form it is non-convertible. Why? Because it is *always* better than every other spell of its spell level. You *always* want to cast Haste first, because afterwards, you can still cast your "normal" spell.

Heck, it's Time Stop-powered, because it potentially gives you 20 extra spells (time stop gives 1d4+1), without the "no combat" restriction... you even want to cast it before time stop, because it makes your time stop effectively 2d4+2 rounds long.

(I'm using time stop, because it is the only 3.5 spell, that grants you more actions in some way)
RavenDrake
02-07-07, 04:33 PM As written it would probably be at least 8th level, maybe 9th simply because it gives you a free, no limitations extra standard action each round.... And for a spellcaster, that's HUGE.

IF you put a limitation on it that you can only cast two spells per round, regardless of the time it takes to cast them(ie a Quickened and a normal, or two normal via your extra action) then it might can be brought down to 7th... but even then, you'd be able to cast a Quickend Spell, a regular spell, and use a Scroll in the same round....

I'd have to go with at least 8th level.

(This is an example of the designers not fully realizing the impact of a magic effect, which is why it was changed signifigantly for 3.5)
elondir
02-07-07, 04:45 PM Let's compare it with celerity from PHB2. Celerity is a fourth-level spell that grants an additional standard action, but dazes you the next round. 3.0 Haste does the same thing, without dazing you, and for additional rounds. Since this is the case, I would make it two or three levels higher than celerity, perhaps sixth or seventh.

In the AD&D Dark Sun book Dragon Kings, there was a sixth-level spell called improved haste which I believe granted ten standard actions per round, essentially leaving time stop in the dust (you get ten actions to their one). http://www.athas.org has updated the spell so that you only go twice per round: once at initiative 0 and again on your normal roll. This more or less duplicates the 3.0 haste spell. So I would say, sixth level, again.
DarkRhystar
02-07-07, 04:47 PM What would be the spell level of the 3.0 spell Haste AS WRITTEN. (From the 3.0 SRD)

Not possible in 3.5. Partial actions no longer exist.
Vaalingrade Ashland
02-07-07, 04:51 PM With the accelerated spellcasting: 5th level.

Without: 3rd level.
RequiemOfReason
02-07-07, 05:09 PM Heck, it's Time Stop-powered, because it potentially gives you 20 extra spells (time stop gives 1d4+1), without the "no combat" restriction... you even want to cast it before time stop, because it makes your time stop effectively 2d4+2 rounds long.

(I'm using time stop, because it is the only 3.5 spell, that grants you more actions in some way)

If you're willing to use some Shapechange cheese, the Chronotyryn from the Fiend Folio has an ability which grants it an two rounds worth of actions each round- ie: an extra full round action, two extra move actions, or an extra move action and standard action. Of course, the FF isn't exactly 3.5... but if I may direct your attention to the Choker (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/choker.htm)?

This message brought to you by the Fiend Folio, a powergaming Shapechanger's best friend.
Redeemer of Ogar
02-07-07, 09:25 PM If you're looking to effectively convert the spell without actually ending up with an overpowered spell, you need to drop out the 2 castings per round. The way to do that is as follows:

"The transmuted creature moves and acts more quickly than normal. This extra speed has several effects.
On its turn, the subject may take an extra move-equivalent action, either before or after its regular action. If the subject attacks as it's regular action, the subject may choose to make an extra attack instead of taking the extra move-equivalent action.
The subject gains a +4 haste bonus to AC. The subject loses this bonus whenever it would lose a dodge bonus.
The subject can jump one and a half times as far as normal. This increase counts as an enhancement bonus.
Haste dispels and counters slow."

I would also consider lowering the AC bonus to +2, just because NOBODY casts this for the AC bonus. It's icing on the cake. The players will be happy to cast it at 3rd level without any AC bonus at all I think, but you want to keep some to maintain the flavor.

This eliminates exactly 2 effects from the old Haste: First, you may no longer cast 2 spells in one round. Second, you may not add a Partial Charge to either a double move or full attack (partial charge no longer exists). You can still make a single move and full attack, or a single move and full charge, or double move and single attack. Most importantly, and the main reason *I* always used to cast Haste... you can actually run up to a door, open it, and move THROUGH it all in one round! Stooopid rules. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DarkSorcerer 02-07-07, 03:14 PM	What would be the spell level of the 3.0 spell Haste AS WRITTEN. (From the 3.0 SRD) Haste Transmutation Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One creature Duration: 1 round/level Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless) The transmuted creature moves and acts more quickly than normal. This extra speed has several effects. On its turn, the subject may take an extra partial action, either before or after its regular action. The subject gains a +4 haste bonus to AC. The subject loses this bonus whenever it would lose a dodge bonus. The subject can jump one and a half times as far as normal. This increase counts as an enhancement bonus. Haste dispels and counters slow.
Loki5654 02-07-07, 03:25 PM	Ummm...Three? Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Lord_Tirian 02-07-07, 03:33 PM	Ummm...Three? I think he meant what the spell level should be - and I've seen a number of threads 'bout it before: Some (and I think the same way) in this form it is non-convertible. Why? Because it is always better than every other spell of its spell level. You always want to cast Haste first, because afterwards, you can still cast your "normal" spell. Heck, it's Time Stop-powered, because it potentially gives you 20 extra spells (time stop gives 1d4+1), without the "no combat" restriction... you even want to cast it before time stop, because it makes your time stop effectively 2d4+2 rounds long. (I'm using time stop, because it is the only 3.5 spell, that grants you more actions in some way)
RavenDrake 02-07-07, 04:33 PM	As written it would probably be at least 8th level, maybe 9th simply because it gives you a free, no limitations extra standard action each round.... And for a spellcaster, that's HUGE. IF you put a limitation on it that you can only cast two spells per round, regardless of the time it takes to cast them(ie a Quickened and a normal, or two normal via your extra action) then it might can be brought down to 7th... but even then, you'd be able to cast a Quickend Spell, a regular spell, and use a Scroll in the same round.... I'd have to go with at least 8th level. (This is an example of the designers not fully realizing the impact of a magic effect, which is why it was changed signifigantly for 3.5)
elondir 02-07-07, 04:45 PM	Let's compare it with celerity from PHB2. Celerity is a fourth-level spell that grants an additional standard action, but dazes you the next round. 3.0 Haste does the same thing, without dazing you, and for additional rounds. Since this is the case, I would make it two or three levels higher than celerity, perhaps sixth or seventh. In the AD&D Dark Sun book Dragon Kings, there was a sixth-level spell called improved haste which I believe granted ten standard actions per round, essentially leaving time stop in the dust (you get ten actions to their one). http://www.athas.org has updated the spell so that you only go twice per round: once at initiative 0 and again on your normal roll. This more or less duplicates the 3.0 haste spell. So I would say, sixth level, again.
DarkRhystar 02-07-07, 04:47 PM	What would be the spell level of the 3.0 spell Haste AS WRITTEN. (From the 3.0 SRD) Not possible in 3.5. Partial actions no longer exist.
Vaalingrade Ashland 02-07-07, 04:51 PM	With the accelerated spellcasting: 5th level. Without: 3rd level.
RequiemOfReason 02-07-07, 05:09 PM	Heck, it's Time Stop-powered, because it potentially gives you 20 extra spells (time stop gives 1d4+1), without the "no combat" restriction... you even want to cast it before time stop, because it makes your time stop effectively 2d4+2 rounds long. (I'm using time stop, because it is the only 3.5 spell, that grants you more actions in some way) If you're willing to use some Shapechange cheese, the Chronotyryn from the Fiend Folio has an ability which grants it an two rounds worth of actions each round- ie: an extra full round action, two extra move actions, or an extra move action and standard action. Of course, the FF isn't exactly 3.5... but if I may direct your attention to the Choker (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/choker.htm)? This message brought to you by the Fiend Folio, a powergaming Shapechanger's best friend.
Redeemer of Ogar 02-07-07, 09:25 PM	If you're looking to effectively convert the spell without actually ending up with an overpowered spell, you need to drop out the 2 castings per round. The way to do that is as follows: "The transmuted creature moves and acts more quickly than normal. This extra speed has several effects. On its turn, the subject may take an extra move-equivalent action, either before or after its regular action. If the subject attacks as it's regular action, the subject may choose to make an extra attack instead of taking the extra move-equivalent action. The subject gains a +4 haste bonus to AC. The subject loses this bonus whenever it would lose a dodge bonus. The subject can jump one and a half times as far as normal. This increase counts as an enhancement bonus. Haste dispels and counters slow." I would also consider lowering the AC bonus to +2, just because NOBODY casts this for the AC bonus. It's icing on the cake. The players will be happy to cast it at 3rd level without any AC bonus at all I think, but you want to keep some to maintain the flavor. This eliminates exactly 2 effects from the old Haste: First, you may no longer cast 2 spells in one round. Second, you may not add a Partial Charge to either a double move or full attack (partial charge no longer exists). You can still make a single move and full attack, or a single move and full charge, or double move and single attack. Most importantly, and the main reason I always used to cast Haste... you can actually run up to a door, open it, and move THROUGH it all in one round! Stooopid rules. :)