Post/Author/DateTime	Post
yggdrasil 07-28-04, 05:47 AM	Hi So, I have just moved to 3.5 and have updated all the charcaters and taken them through the major changes... The players are generally unhappy about these changes and have come up with the term "NERF" to describe every little thing that has changed. The monk character lost a number of critical things, including the haste ability of his "monk's belt". The fighter remained pretty much the same, but lost a feat or two. The sorcerer/wizard obviously has changed the most (what with spells). So, here is my dilemma... What spells are officially 3.5? I am playing in FR and have Magic of Faerun, FR Campaign Setting. I assume these are 3.5? Is Manual of PLanes 3.5? The splat books? Do you compromise on low powered spells? Like "spark" from relics and rituals... it is a cantrip that lights a torch or lantern. Little reason to keep this spell from players? I would like to be fair... the player has chosen a number of spells that were in the past available (no questions asked) to him... which are now not available as they are no longer 3.5? How do I handle this? How have you? What is the official 3.5 vs 3.0 spell list. Is it important to keep everything 3.5?
Banpai 07-28-04, 06:12 AM	I do understand your problem, and my immediate suggestio would be to decide on a case by case base. Some spells from the FRCS and MoF were revised in the players guide to Faerund together with the regional feat system and some PrCs. But certain spells in MoF FRCS and other 3rd Ed book contain material thats not usable for a 3.5 game (e.g. MoF contains a spells that increases the casters WIS by half his caster level) Concerning your Monk and his Belt, the item is already a very good deal for cheap 13k, the haste effect is really not needed.(If you feel the he needs to get stronger show him the monk tatoo in the MoF)
yggdrasil 07-28-04, 06:40 AM	thanks - a case by case basis is how I imgined I would have to solve this... which in turn means I need to read more spell desriptions to become a better arbiter of what ccould be 3.5 or what not. as to the monk belt... i have given him the tools needed (tattoo kit and a book on how to tattoo which will give him 1 rank in craft [tattoo]) to craft his own monk's tattoo. He is still reading the book... so he hasn't got it yet. My problem is... he is already 11th level... with the tattoo... his effective level for unarmed damage and AC go up by 4 (i think)... if I made the monk belt do that too (I think it goes up by 5). First question... do these effects stack? I think not... both are an enhancement bonus on monk level... so only the highest... and suddenly i have completely nerfed either the belt or the tattoo. So, I spoke to the player... and told him he had a choice... keep the belt as it was in 3.0 (but with the reduced haste effect)... or make it as it is in 3.5, whereby I would then redesign the effect of the monk tattoo, as I have already customised this item to my campaign slightly - so as to not have overlapping effects. Even if these effects stacked to a +9 effective level... as far as I understand it, damage and AC do not increase beyond 20th level. Maybe Epic rules has some stuff, but I don't have that book. So... both items become less and less powerful as the player levels. -- The spell currently in question is "interplanar message" which is from Manual of the Planes. I have yet to read it fully to know whether it could be 3.5 compliant without editing. -- PS: I would have searched for simiar threads before posting - but it appears that the search funtioon is temporarily down. thanks for you patience if you guys have all handled thes eissues when 3.5 first came out last year... (practically 2 months after I bought my complete 3.0 set... **DOH!**) thanks again
Seeker95 07-28-04, 08:22 AM	I am all in favor of 3.5, and have taken it as a total package. That said, however... I do not think it wise to switch mid-campaign. Many PC decisions are made with long-term objectives in mind, and some decisions reflect the immediate power gain. Switching to 3.5 mid-stream may make many of these already-in-effect decisions irrelevant or even unwise. As for spells... Except for the Faerun update (Player's Guide?) you will need to examine each element one item / spell / mechanic at a time.
yggdrasil 07-28-04, 10:31 AM	in a perfect world I would agree to keep system changes from occurring mid-campaign, but alac alas tis not possible in this instance. we are all very keen to adopt 3.5 for a number of reasons, and as this campaign has been going for a year and a half... and probably has at least 6-9 months left in it - would be a shame to wait (especially if a number of my players might leave the country to go live, work, explore...) The only way I have handled this is to allow the player a certain degree of freedom in selecting different feats/skills to replace those that have been nerfed (or deleted) and allowing them access to my difficult world of keeping them happy with their past choices and power level whilst trying to universally adopt 3.5. So far it has "worked"... and I think in a little time they'll get over their perceived "losses".
J. Grenemyer 07-28-04, 01:52 PM	Hello yggdrasil, I can empathize with your situation: My Forgotten Realms Campaign switched fully to 3.5 last year, after having run in 3.0 since it was first released. Since then, the release of the Player’s Guide to Faerûn, Complete Warrior, Complete Divine and the Miniatures Handbook have all introduced new revisions to the 3.0 rules my campaign was using. I handled the switch pretty much as you have handled it, by allowing my players to review the rules revisions and modify any element of their character made obsolete or less than optimal by those rule revisions. The outcome of this was pretty positive; my players ended up with characters virtually identical to those they had prior to the revision and they’re having a blast playing the game. The splatbooks are (and were) a little more tricky. As each new book comes out, we decide as a group which new rules we want to adopt, and which revised rules we want to adopt or ignore in favor of older rules. Originally posted by yggdrasil The spell currently in question is "interplanar message" which is from Manual of the Planes. I have yet to read it fully to know whether it could be 3.5 compliant without editing. Just use it as is. You can use just about any 3.0 rule (especially spells) as is in a 3.5 game. You should not feel as though you’re required to not use a given 3.0 rule simply because you’re not sure whether it’s been updated in some other book. The systems are compatible, after all. :D
yggdrasil 07-29-04, 10:04 AM	hey all thanks for all the friendly and good advice. I feel a lot more confident now doing what I must. It's strange, but when I was in my teens (a decade or so ago) rules and rule changes seemed easy. It was my system, my game and to hell with anyone else and perceived game balance... things just worked themselves out. Now that I am older... I have this annoying questioning inner voice that needs to analyze everything before taking a decision for fear of needing to change my mind at a later date. I seemed more fearless in my teens. In truth my players don't seem to mind. They continually encourage me by saying its my game and all and my rules. But ultimately, it is their enjoyment that is tantamount in a good game experience (it is where I derive my enjoyment from)... Rules are secondary, story primary... but to make rules take a back seat one has to know them fully so that they are not at the forefront of attention. Its quite ironic. thanks again everyone